Better lucky than good right^^. No seriously, against spirits I boarded the witness & ooze out anyway (thought they were too slow / had no important target). Also, through the stupid wanderer and spell queller I did not expect to get the full company into ewit value often enough.
A quick post to say that I start testing Ulvenwald tracker (1 main 1 SB) and it seems very good against creatures decks. Quite easy to kill anything in affinity and humans. Nice interaction with finks and even more when vizier is also present. Just 1 maindeck as chord target could be great especially seeing the number of humans, and their pesky meddling mages and kitesail freebooters. Any thoughts?
This card has been my secret bullet for months, and destroys any creature-based decks, particularly if you have him out alongside Rhonas. The local players have started learning that it is usually KoS or lose when it comes down.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Has anyone tried traditional Abzan Company (ie. no druid/vizier combo - just the Anafenza/Melira combo) in this meta? I decided to try it out since the meta's gotten a lot grindier with the rise of UWx control, and at a recent SCG open it was Jund vs. Burn in the finals. So far it's been amazing in my limited testing - I've won almost all of my matches (outside of ones where I've punted). It doesn't have the nut draws that Counters Company has, but it still T4 combos consistently against limited interaction and can grind vs. midrange and control. Here's the list I've currently on.
Llanowar Elves is, obviously, the 9th dork, and could be something like an Eternal Witness but I've found that the games you start with a dork go so much better than the ones you don't (increases your chances to start with one from 65% to 70%, and having multiple dorks in play is also great vs. decks that aren't heavily interactive). Maindeck Eidolon of Rhetoric has been great in the matchups where it's good, and those matchups (ie. Storm, KCI, the new R/B Vengevine deck that's everywhere) are the kinds of decks that are traditionally very difficult for the deck to handle. Not sure about the 3/2 split between Chord of Calling and Eldritch Evolution, maybe should be 2/3 instead as it allows you to go a little faster (but opens up more 2-for-1's against grindy decks).
You'll notice no Tron hate - it's such a bad matchup I figure I'll just have to go-for broke with the combo and focus my sb on closer matchups.
To chime in on this whole Knight vs. Finks discussion, I prefer Knight for three reasons:
1) Allows for a favorable matchup against Tron with 3-5 land destruction effects,
2) Tutors Kessig Wolf Run with a very small, almost free Red splash,which makes it effectively a combo piece so long as it's not summoning sick,
3) Can be found by Militia Bugler, and that card seems real good in early testing. Still a bit torn between that and Tireless Tracker, though.
On an unrelated note, I wanted to ask how people see our Humans matchup? I played against an opponent recently who swore up and down that the matchup is heavily skewed in our favor. In my experience it's been closer to 50/50, maybe a bit play/draw dependant. What have people's experiences been like?
I play Jund and Hatebears against this deck and bring graveyard when you try to grind is really good against this deck. Moreover any relic, cage or spellbomb is 1 mana,even rip is just 2 mana for shut down 7+ cards but if you play a version with no voice and only 2 witness, well ok it's not so powerful.
The shortcut on the Knight vs finks discussion is you play against more aggro decks than tron deck so i pick the finks version.
That's kind of a simplistic view. Finks is certainly better vs some aggro decks (e.g. Burn, Goblins) but Knight grinds better and will be more powerful if the game goes long, be it by smashing for 5+ damage or by tutoring up utility lands. Speaking of which, land destruction isn't only good vs Tron: it has utility in many matchups including but not limited to: Affinity, Infect, UWx control, Burn (cut them off white or green), GBx, KCI (admittedly marginal), Eldrazi, etc. That's a point in Knight's favor. The knight version also isn't as weak to graveyard hate. Sure, Knight won't get bigger than a 2/2, but it's a 2/2 that can cast crop rotation every single turn. If your opponent is wasting a card on RIP or Leyline, I'll happily take that deal.
54 person PPTQ - 6 rounds. Deck that I ran was Laplasjan's 60 with changes in the SB.
Round 1 vs. Lantern. Mull to 6. I keep a bad 6, but I get Tireless Tracker, the only card I switched from his 60 instead of Brimaz, which I don't like. I draw fetchland after fetchland and his hand was slow with no Lantern until it was too late. I comboed off and got Noble Hierarchs to swing through the Ensnaring Bridge since Witchbane Orb was also out. In the next game, he does Inquisition of Kozilek. I top deck Kataki the turn after and he has to use Mox Opal to Abrupt Decay the Kataki and lose the Opal and 2 Pithing Needles. He doesn't recover from this as I swing with creatures while doing Gavony Township and finish him off with a Walking Ballista that had been swinging. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Tron. One of the friends I drove with. Odd games. We both mull to 6. My hand just cannot find Devoted Druid and O Stone, then Ugin, and finally the nail in Karn finish me off. In the next game, I put a lot of pressure on him quickly with Tireless Tracker on turn 2 and clues and other creatures to finish him off before he could draw anything. In the final game, he kept on 2 Tron lands while I mulled to a solid 6, then he couldn't find a land until a single Ghost Quarter allowed him to cast O Stone. I go all in since I need to put pressure and Vizier wins it for me at any time. I get there. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Affinity. He beats me by putting pressure and Galvanic Blast with his last card on my Druid. I did not expect it because he did Thoughtcast the turn before. In the next game, I combo off on turn 3. In the final game, I get an early Gavony Township going and he has a slow hand. I get there as he draws nothing of consequence. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. He gets me in the first game after Galvanic Blast gets my Devoted Druid, then another one gets the next Devoted Druid since his attack would not be exact lethal. He gets me soon thereafter. In the next game, I am able to combo off after he had Grafdigger's Cage, but I did it with the 3 creatures. In the final game, I finally use a Path to Exile, racing 2 Vault Skirge with a growing Kitchen Finks and Devoted Druids from Gavony Township. The Path is enough to push lethal. Plenty of mulls this round, him going to 6, 5, and 5 and me going to 6, 7, and 6. 2-1.
Round 5 vs. Tron. He is 3-1, so needs to play it out. He only has Worldbreaker and Wurmcoil Engine after turn 3 Tron. I finally find the combo and win. In the next game, he just mulls to 4 and gets stuck on 1 land while I goldfish damage with Gavony Township again. For a 2 of, it sure comes up a lot! Whew! 2-0.
Round 6 vs. Bant Spirits. He is 4-0-1, so winning makes him the #1 seed and me #2. Both of us make it in the top 8 regardless of the outcome. Turn 1 Hierarch into Mausoleum Wanderer and Supreme Phantom into CoCo into double Lord. My mull to 6 doesn't draw much and loses. In the next game, his hand is not quite gas. I make a mistake of doing Path to Exile on his Hierarch on his upkeep because I assumed he would Spell Queller, then I had an out of drawing Vizier of Remedies to win the following turn. Of course he didn't do it and he had double Quller on turn 5 (Path). He got there with those because 1 Finks getting bigger every turn is not enough. 0-2.
Top 8 vs. Infect. In the first game, he does turn 1 Glistener Elf. Distortion Strike kills me on his turn 3 while I flounder with a weak 6 card hand. In the next game, it is similar, but his last card in hand after casting double Glistener Elf was NOT Become Immense, which would have won it on Blighted Agent. Got there with creatures. In the next game, he does Dismember on my Devoted Druid. Mind you, his 75 plays 2. Then he does it on a blocker and pushes the Glistener Elf through for lethal. Damn! I actually had the combo this game, but got stuck on 2 land while he abused my creatures. 1-2.
And my tournament comes to an abrupt end. It turns out that the Round 6 Bant Spirits player was in the finals vs. the Infect player, so one of them got the RPTQ invite.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think the list is definitely a good baseline. I'm not sure about the main deck Brimaz, King of Oreskos, but as you can see from my report, the Tireless Tracker that I put instead was GAS and won me at least 2 games itself.
I feel that the SB does need to be changed. Here's what he ran vs. what I ended up going with.
I couldn't find a 2nd foil Sin Collector before the tournament, so I would have actually done that, but didn't have access to it. The Abrupt Decay didn't seem necessary. I can understand it for Grafdigger's Cage, but if you are putting 3 of those in for those, it also lowers your Collected Company creature density. Shalai was useless for me. Kor Firewalker was useless for me too, although part of me liked hedging against Burn since I lost to it the day before at a PPTQ with Humans when I drew trash in games 1 and 3. But that probably had more to do with mulligans, drawing trash, and my opponent drawing a lethal burn spell on the final turn when empty handed. It's a problem with me. I hedge against things that happen, even on different decks, because I don't want to lose to it again.
These are the spots I'm happy with - Voice of Resurgence, Scavenging Ooze, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Path to Exile, and Sin Collector. But...I had previously used Orzhov Pontiff and I still like it as a 1 of. It allows for Chord against decks like Infect and Mardu Pyromancer. Even if the card is terribly bad against some decks, when you side it in, it usually can be a blowout. Also I was surprised that there was no Burrenton Forge-Tender or Selfless Spirit in the side as well. Not sure what to cut, but I think at least Selfless Spirit is necessary because you can often put pressure (but not combo) against sweepers and leave up Chord of Calling for Selfless Spirit if needed.
There is a stream of my play at twitchtv.com/kingslayergames. It is the August 12, 2018 Modern PPTQ and I have Green KMC Super Sleeves. I did some mistakes again, including playing around Spell Queller too hard. I think in those situations, I need to jam it out so I would have had multiple Devoted Druids out. I would lose to Spell Queller either way, but a top decked Path to Exile would also kill me effectively. I just am wary of jamming cards that make my opponent jam Spell Queller out to shorten the clock. It turned out he had turn 5 double Spell Queller anyway and I didn't draw anything but lands, but that doesn't matter. I need to do the right plays and just 2 weeks ago, I made a similar mistake against Bant Company when I was Bogles, but it allowed me to resolve a Daybreak Coronet that prolonged the game. Alas I never got more than 1 Rancor (he had another Spell Queller) or Spirit Mantle in that one, so I lost, but I felt that I could have lost earlier if I hadn't played around it. But this particular game with Counters Company is different because he already had a winning clock. I assumed I'm draw a single creature before the turn before lethal and have the superior clock. He was at 4 life when he killed me and I had a Kitchen Finks with 3 counters on it and 2 Devoted Druids with 1 counter each.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Squadron Hawk is a new one for me. It seems super interesting though, I'd like to get your thought process on why you decided to include it and what are some matchups it excels in.
Well i always loved the hawks and played them with a mirror entity as an outlet. The entity was rather underwhelming, but the hawks were really nice with hierarchs and township. i know they dont do anything for the combo, but you thin out your deck a bit and so far i rarely drew a second one.
They shine in attrition heavy matchups and against control, are decent against burn, humans and such as blockers. They are insane against Lili and deliver a solid clock with one or two hierarchs and are great with worship, moreover you have 4 easy sideboard slots against noninteractive decks.
Wanted to mention that clique "counters" terminus. I don't know if anybody's still playing the bant version with quellers.
Hard on the mana. But probably the best maindeck answer to UW right now
Yep, super hard on the mana. When I played Knightfall, the mana always kept me from putting a 2nd Vendilion Clique in the SB. I literally did NOT side that card in when it was good in the matchup, but I was terrified to not be able to cast him. That's a bad sign and no way to play. That being said, I definitely could see another deck having better mana with BANT Company and not the Knightfall I ran. (Kessig Wolf Run)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Wanted to mention that clique "counters" terminus. I don't know if anybody's still playing the bant version with quellers.
Hard on the mana. But probably the best maindeck answer to UW right now
Any particular reason people are off Bant with Spell Quellers? I've been wondering this for awhile now actually, after seeing Hoogland stream it a few times, it seems really solid.
Played this deck for the first time in a while since I've been on GTron for PPTQ season. I got my Buglers which I've been itching to try out as I talked about here, and sailed to a 4-0 for the night! The deck felt super powerful, possibly the most powerful iteration of the deck I've played yet. My sample size is only 4 matches mind you, but I had some crazy games which are explained below. List for reference:
Some notes about the deck before the games:
- Yes that is a 14 card sideboard. I must have forgot one at home, but it didn't seem to matter at all.
- Omitting the Finks + Seer package for Bugler + KotR. This allows Bugler to hit every card in the deck.
- 1 Courser of Kruphix compliments the KotR's. Because of it's inclusion I am playing 7 dorks and 22 lands, as opposed to my normal 8 dorks and 21 lands. Yes I like to cheat on the lands, but not here.
- KotR even acts as a dork in some cases, especially if you play it turn 2, so you are playing what is essentially 15 "dorks" not even inducing EWit getting fetches back. I never had mana problems.
- Only 3 Eternal Witness. I always like 4, but I figured with Bugler I could drop one to make the deck a little less reliant on the graveyard.
- I played before with 6 land destruction lands, but found that against the majority of decks they didn't do what I wanted them to do. Because of this I dropped to 3. This lets me still kill stuff like the random Inkmoth/Mutavault while also slowing down Tron and Valakut enough to win those matchups (in theory). With the 3 extra "utility land" slots I was able to include a second Horizon Canopy to help out the combo and flooding in general, and a Gavony Township for when the deck goes real wide.
Onto the games:
Round 1 vs Grixis Death's Shadow:
Game 1 was a grind fest with him removing my Druids, but not having a fast start himself. Once I accepted that I wasn't going to combo I went all in on the KotR plan. The game was decided with him using a Temur Battlerage on his 8/8 Shadow to kill my 10/10 Knight. I then Companied into Knight + EWit, using the company again to hit another Knight and win the game since he ran out of blockers. Game 2 was more of the same with me boarding out the combo and into a midrange deck (everything but Kataki, Rec Sage, and Eidolon). I overwhelmed him with value and won with 2 11/11 Knights while destroying his lands thanks to Path removing his only two basic lands. Bugler kept on finding Knights or EWits that Companies couldn't and kept the value train going. 2-0
Round 2 vs Mardu Pyromancer:
More of the same as round 1. The dude went Lootings into Pyromancer and I won some turns after with the combo by casting some Companies and Bugler finding what I wanted. Boarded the same as against Death's Shadow since I figured I couldn't combo again through all of the removal. The game this time went pretty long with him killing my turn 2 druid and resolving a LotV which I had to then throw away a Knight and Ewit to. I eventually got there though as he couldn't discard my companies, and I started chaining them to fill up the board. I found my Scooze and kept his graveyard out of relevant stuff while I had a Spellskite and Forge-Tender as backup. The Scooze then went on to continually attack him and win. 2-0
Round 3 vs UG Infect:
This was the guy I lost to in the top 8 of the PPTQ on Sunday. Game 3 was the only relevant one and super intense with him on the play. Turn 2 he has a Blighted Agent while I have a Temple Garden and Horizon Canopy to play a Devoted Druid. His turn 3 he hits me for 7 infect, and will hit me for a guaranteed 3 more the next turn so I have to win. I untap, and my hand is Vizier, Ghost Quarter, Bugler, and some other not relevant stuff. I play the Vizier with the Temple Garden since I can draw a card with Canopy. This is only better than playing Bugler if I draw a Chord or Company, so I figure I'll Bugler instead sine I can hit 2 Recruiters and 1 Ballista in 4 cards. I miss, but hit another Bugler. It then dawned on me that I could Ghost Quarter my land to get an untapped Plains and cast the second Bugler to tray again. Lo and behold it hits a Recruiter and I get a clutch win! You can watch the video of the match here. 2-1
Round 4 vs Eldrazi Tron:
This is the guy I beat in round 5 of the PPTQ. Games were grindy with me eventually using a Chord to get through his Chalice on 2 and win the game. It was weird since he know the Chord was coming but didn't Dismember the Druid... Game 2 was won off of the back of KotR and some land fetching shenanigans to block Reality Smashers after the wiped my graveyard. Again a misplay on his part as he should have waited and he would have won. Re-watching the footage I also missed a Duskwatch trigger, so I'll have to remember that for the future. It didn't matter though as it died the turn after. You can watch the video of the match here. 2-0
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Thoughts on the deck:
- I really really liked Bugler. The deck has been getting away from the graveyard more and more, but is still dependent with Eternal Witness and Knight of the Reliquary. It's not the worst is hate is brought in for it, but it certainly is annoying. Bugler helps get away from this (replacing Finks).
- Hitting a Bugler off of a Company almost guarantees hitting something that you need since you get to keep digging. I found if I was ever wanting a card I could always find it within the next 1-2 turns. It also makes the combo much more consistent meaning you will fizzle less when getting infinite mana.
- A downside with Bugler is that you are more dependent on W during the combo, so you have to be mindful to fetch it out.
- KotR is a beast, and is often the biggest thing on the battlefield. With Finks I found I was using it to chump and stay alive until I could squeak out a combo. Now for the same mana cost I am winning combats, ramping, and thinning my deck. You lose life gain in the deck, and if anything take more damage from fetches, so I can imagine the Burn matchups is suddenly harder.
- The plan of going super-combo maindeck and transitional value-midrange deck in the sideboard worked out well. I was able to race things like without interaction like Infect (and Affinity in pre-event games) while absolutely destroying the opponent with value post-board.
- I'm not sure what I want sideboard card #15 to be. Perhaps a Pridemage, or another Scooze...?
I will hopefully play this again Wednesday and see if I can replicate the results.
@Torpf
Thanks for your post, i like your list except about the random courser, i could play the last bugler instead.
Some questions :
-do you think you NEED the voices in SB with all these values guys ?
-Can you explain spellskite ?
-What do you think about your list against humans, hollow one, burn and VV ? (what's the MU ? And what's side board do you like or need ?)
-Why reclamation sage over qasali pridemage ? (For me qasali is better because you can chord for X=2, untap and sac him)
Courser is there as it has some good synergy with Knight. With all of the fetchlands in the deck you can sort of 'dig' for more impactful cards. In the lategame you can use KotR to shuffle the deck if you don't like the card on top, and then use the fetchland from KotR to shuffle again. It's sort of like the Fetch-Brainstorm interaction in Legacy or with JtmS. It also adds some marginal lifegain to the deck which is gone sine I cut Finks. I can see an argument for moving it to the side for something like Selfless Spirit which can protect the combo game 1 instead of digging for it.
My shop has a lot of control and midrage decks so I wanted to be able to crush them at their own game in games 2 and 3. Sometimes I get lucky and combo game 1, but most times it's a slow grind with them removing druids and whatnot while the game slowly slips away from me. With the addition of KotR maindeck I think the game 1 is a bit better, but I still wanted to be able to side into a deck that is sure to beat them post-board.
Spellskite is the same reason as above. There is a lot of removal, as well as some Infect and Burn players around which Skite helps a lot against. Scales-Affinity has also become very popular. It's more there for the combo matchups when they bring in a bit of removal post-board, but it also helps in the Midrange matches where I can protect a Knight form a Push or something. Against Control & Spirits it stops Path which Spirit doesn't. Just an all around good utility creature.
Against Humans they only have 2 cards game 1, Reflector Mage and Meddling Mage. I can outrace them game 1 unless they get lucky, and post board there are enough tools to remove some threats and squeak in a combo. Hollow One has little removal, so we can combo faster than them if they don't have a blazing-fast start. Knights stop Hollow Ones and Buglers stop Bloodghasts. Same for Vengevine, they have little removal compared to other decks so I am fine with still trying to slip the combo under them.
Took the deck to a 3-1 tonight, which puts Bugler version at 7-1 overall. Only changes were +1 Selfless Spirit MD, +1 Courser of Kruphix & +1 Qasali Pridemage SB so I had 15 cards this time. List for reference:
Wins were 2-0 vs taking Turns. I won the match in about 10 mins total with a turn 3 combo each game. 2-1 vs G Devotion. I kept a slow hand game 1 hoping I could just get there, whereas games 2 and 3 I forced the combo and blew him out of the water. 2-1 vs Scales Affinity, with game 3 him mulling to 5 while I had the turn 3 win. He didn't have removal on his turn 2 so I won.
My loss was to UW Control, 0-2. Game 1 I kept a 1 land hand with Hierarch, Druid, Druid, Vizier, Chord, EWit, Forest. On turn 2 I drew a second Chord, and he Logic Knotted my Druid for 1. If I had drawn a land it would have resolved and I was pretty confident in my chances, but alas I didn't. I went on to draw Chords for 2 more turns, so I had all 4 in hand before I got my second land. Wasn't winning that one. Second game was more of the same, with a T2 Bugler finding Druid, playing the Druid T3, and him wrathing the board on his T4. From there he stabilized with a Teferi and then Jace, so I was lost at that point. I hoped to see a Company so I could start trying to flood the board with it and EWits, but never saw either card and was grinded out.
The control matchup was pretty bad, especially with them playing Terminus now. My strategy was to force the combo and hope they can't Logic Knot for enough on Turn 2, as we aren't going to win the long game. Their Planeswalkers out value us, unlike other midrange decks that we can play the grindy-value game with. Perhaps adding a Breeding Pool and 3 Unified Will to the sideboard is the best bet for this matchup. Countering their first wrath or PW will give us a window to try and win. Thoughts on the matchup?
This card has been my secret bullet for months, and destroys any creature-based decks, particularly if you have him out alongside Rhonas. The local players have started learning that it is usually KoS or lose when it comes down.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Eternal Witness
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Murderous Redcap
3 Militia Bugler
2 Spellskite
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Collected Company
3 Chord of Calling
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Eldritch Evolution
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Path to Exile
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Llanowar Elves is, obviously, the 9th dork, and could be something like an Eternal Witness but I've found that the games you start with a dork go so much better than the ones you don't (increases your chances to start with one from 65% to 70%, and having multiple dorks in play is also great vs. decks that aren't heavily interactive). Maindeck Eidolon of Rhetoric has been great in the matchups where it's good, and those matchups (ie. Storm, KCI, the new R/B Vengevine deck that's everywhere) are the kinds of decks that are traditionally very difficult for the deck to handle. Not sure about the 3/2 split between Chord of Calling and Eldritch Evolution, maybe should be 2/3 instead as it allows you to go a little faster (but opens up more 2-for-1's against grindy decks).
You'll notice no Tron hate - it's such a bad matchup I figure I'll just have to go-for broke with the combo and focus my sb on closer matchups.
Finks is better than knight against midrange and control. The reason being that it generally eats 2 removal spells.
BRx decks hate to see Finks.
I think Knight is certainly better against Tron though.
1) Allows for a favorable matchup against Tron with 3-5 land destruction effects,
2) Tutors Kessig Wolf Run with a very small, almost free Red splash,which makes it effectively a combo piece so long as it's not summoning sick,
3) Can be found by Militia Bugler, and that card seems real good in early testing. Still a bit torn between that and Tireless Tracker, though.
On an unrelated note, I wanted to ask how people see our Humans matchup? I played against an opponent recently who swore up and down that the matchup is heavily skewed in our favor. In my experience it's been closer to 50/50, maybe a bit play/draw dependant. What have people's experiences been like?
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
That's kind of a simplistic view. Finks is certainly better vs some aggro decks (e.g. Burn, Goblins) but Knight grinds better and will be more powerful if the game goes long, be it by smashing for 5+ damage or by tutoring up utility lands. Speaking of which, land destruction isn't only good vs Tron: it has utility in many matchups including but not limited to: Affinity, Infect, UWx control, Burn (cut them off white or green), GBx, KCI (admittedly marginal), Eldrazi, etc. That's a point in Knight's favor. The knight version also isn't as weak to graveyard hate. Sure, Knight won't get bigger than a 2/2, but it's a 2/2 that can cast crop rotation every single turn. If your opponent is wasting a card on RIP or Leyline, I'll happily take that deal.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
Round 1 vs. Lantern. Mull to 6. I keep a bad 6, but I get Tireless Tracker, the only card I switched from his 60 instead of Brimaz, which I don't like. I draw fetchland after fetchland and his hand was slow with no Lantern until it was too late. I comboed off and got Noble Hierarchs to swing through the Ensnaring Bridge since Witchbane Orb was also out. In the next game, he does Inquisition of Kozilek. I top deck Kataki the turn after and he has to use Mox Opal to Abrupt Decay the Kataki and lose the Opal and 2 Pithing Needles. He doesn't recover from this as I swing with creatures while doing Gavony Township and finish him off with a Walking Ballista that had been swinging. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Tron. One of the friends I drove with. Odd games. We both mull to 6. My hand just cannot find Devoted Druid and O Stone, then Ugin, and finally the nail in Karn finish me off. In the next game, I put a lot of pressure on him quickly with Tireless Tracker on turn 2 and clues and other creatures to finish him off before he could draw anything. In the final game, he kept on 2 Tron lands while I mulled to a solid 6, then he couldn't find a land until a single Ghost Quarter allowed him to cast O Stone. I go all in since I need to put pressure and Vizier wins it for me at any time. I get there. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Affinity. He beats me by putting pressure and Galvanic Blast with his last card on my Druid. I did not expect it because he did Thoughtcast the turn before. In the next game, I combo off on turn 3. In the final game, I get an early Gavony Township going and he has a slow hand. I get there as he draws nothing of consequence. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. He gets me in the first game after Galvanic Blast gets my Devoted Druid, then another one gets the next Devoted Druid since his attack would not be exact lethal. He gets me soon thereafter. In the next game, I am able to combo off after he had Grafdigger's Cage, but I did it with the 3 creatures. In the final game, I finally use a Path to Exile, racing 2 Vault Skirge with a growing Kitchen Finks and Devoted Druids from Gavony Township. The Path is enough to push lethal. Plenty of mulls this round, him going to 6, 5, and 5 and me going to 6, 7, and 6. 2-1.
Round 5 vs. Tron. He is 3-1, so needs to play it out. He only has Worldbreaker and Wurmcoil Engine after turn 3 Tron. I finally find the combo and win. In the next game, he just mulls to 4 and gets stuck on 1 land while I goldfish damage with Gavony Township again. For a 2 of, it sure comes up a lot! Whew! 2-0.
Round 6 vs. Bant Spirits. He is 4-0-1, so winning makes him the #1 seed and me #2. Both of us make it in the top 8 regardless of the outcome. Turn 1 Hierarch into Mausoleum Wanderer and Supreme Phantom into CoCo into double Lord. My mull to 6 doesn't draw much and loses. In the next game, his hand is not quite gas. I make a mistake of doing Path to Exile on his Hierarch on his upkeep because I assumed he would Spell Queller, then I had an out of drawing Vizier of Remedies to win the following turn. Of course he didn't do it and he had double Quller on turn 5 (Path). He got there with those because 1 Finks getting bigger every turn is not enough. 0-2.
Top 8 vs. Infect. In the first game, he does turn 1 Glistener Elf. Distortion Strike kills me on his turn 3 while I flounder with a weak 6 card hand. In the next game, it is similar, but his last card in hand after casting double Glistener Elf was NOT Become Immense, which would have won it on Blighted Agent. Got there with creatures. In the next game, he does Dismember on my Devoted Druid. Mind you, his 75 plays 2. Then he does it on a blocker and pushes the Glistener Elf through for lethal. Damn! I actually had the combo this game, but got stuck on 2 land while he abused my creatures.
And my tournament comes to an abrupt end. It turns out that the Round 6 Bant Spirits player was in the finals vs. the Infect player, so one of them got the RPTQ invite.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I feel that the SB does need to be changed. Here's what he ran vs. what I ended up going with.
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
Here's what I ran.
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
I couldn't find a 2nd foil Sin Collector before the tournament, so I would have actually done that, but didn't have access to it. The Abrupt Decay didn't seem necessary. I can understand it for Grafdigger's Cage, but if you are putting 3 of those in for those, it also lowers your Collected Company creature density. Shalai was useless for me. Kor Firewalker was useless for me too, although part of me liked hedging against Burn since I lost to it the day before at a PPTQ with Humans when I drew trash in games 1 and 3. But that probably had more to do with mulligans, drawing trash, and my opponent drawing a lethal burn spell on the final turn when empty handed. It's a problem with me. I hedge against things that happen, even on different decks, because I don't want to lose to it again.
These are the spots I'm happy with - Voice of Resurgence, Scavenging Ooze, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Path to Exile, and Sin Collector. But...I had previously used Orzhov Pontiff and I still like it as a 1 of. It allows for Chord against decks like Infect and Mardu Pyromancer. Even if the card is terribly bad against some decks, when you side it in, it usually can be a blowout. Also I was surprised that there was no Burrenton Forge-Tender or Selfless Spirit in the side as well. Not sure what to cut, but I think at least Selfless Spirit is necessary because you can often put pressure (but not combo) against sweepers and leave up Chord of Calling for Selfless Spirit if needed.
There is a stream of my play at twitchtv.com/kingslayergames. It is the August 12, 2018 Modern PPTQ and I have Green KMC Super Sleeves. I did some mistakes again, including playing around Spell Queller too hard. I think in those situations, I need to jam it out so I would have had multiple Devoted Druids out. I would lose to Spell Queller either way, but a top decked Path to Exile would also kill me effectively. I just am wary of jamming cards that make my opponent jam Spell Queller out to shorten the clock. It turned out he had turn 5 double Spell Queller anyway and I didn't draw anything but lands, but that doesn't matter. I need to do the right plays and just 2 weeks ago, I made a similar mistake against Bant Company when I was Bogles, but it allowed me to resolve a Daybreak Coronet that prolonged the game. Alas I never got more than 1 Rancor (he had another Spell Queller) or Spirit Mantle in that one, so I lost, but I felt that I could have lost earlier if I hadn't played around it. But this particular game with Counters Company is different because he already had a winning clock. I assumed I'm draw a single creature before the turn before lethal and have the superior clock. He was at 4 life when he killed me and I had a Kitchen Finks with 3 counters on it and 2 Devoted Druids with 1 counter each.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Some other options off the top of my head for removal heavy matchups:
Shapers Sanctuary
Thrun, the Last Troll
Athreos, God of Passage
Fiendslayer Paladin
Phyrexian Arena
It’s certainly has some negative chemistry with Finks, but it makes the rest of our creatures better in those grindy, removal-heavy matchups.
What about something like Return to the Ranks?
Interesting! I'll have to give them a try.
Hard on the mana. But probably the best maindeck answer to UW right now
Hard on the mana. But probably the best maindeck answer to UW right now
Yep, super hard on the mana. When I played Knightfall, the mana always kept me from putting a 2nd Vendilion Clique in the SB. I literally did NOT side that card in when it was good in the matchup, but I was terrified to not be able to cast him. That's a bad sign and no way to play. That being said, I definitely could see another deck having better mana with BANT Company and not the Knightfall I ran. (Kessig Wolf Run)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Any particular reason people are off Bant with Spell Quellers? I've been wondering this for awhile now actually, after seeing Hoogland stream it a few times, it seems really solid.
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Staff4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
3 Militia Bugler
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Walking Ballista
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
Lands (22)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Temple Garden
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Field of Ruin
4 Forest
1 Plains
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
3 Path to Exile
1 Worship
- Yes that is a 14 card sideboard. I must have forgot one at home, but it didn't seem to matter at all.
- Omitting the Finks + Seer package for Bugler + KotR. This allows Bugler to hit every card in the deck.
- 1 Courser of Kruphix compliments the KotR's. Because of it's inclusion I am playing 7 dorks and 22 lands, as opposed to my normal 8 dorks and 21 lands. Yes I like to cheat on the lands, but not here.
- KotR even acts as a dork in some cases, especially if you play it turn 2, so you are playing what is essentially 15 "dorks" not even inducing EWit getting fetches back. I never had mana problems.
- Only 3 Eternal Witness. I always like 4, but I figured with Bugler I could drop one to make the deck a little less reliant on the graveyard.
- I played before with 6 land destruction lands, but found that against the majority of decks they didn't do what I wanted them to do. Because of this I dropped to 3. This lets me still kill stuff like the random Inkmoth/Mutavault while also slowing down Tron and Valakut enough to win those matchups (in theory). With the 3 extra "utility land" slots I was able to include a second Horizon Canopy to help out the combo and flooding in general, and a Gavony Township for when the deck goes real wide.
Onto the games:
Round 1 vs Grixis Death's Shadow:
Game 1 was a grind fest with him removing my Druids, but not having a fast start himself. Once I accepted that I wasn't going to combo I went all in on the KotR plan. The game was decided with him using a Temur Battlerage on his 8/8 Shadow to kill my 10/10 Knight. I then Companied into Knight + EWit, using the company again to hit another Knight and win the game since he ran out of blockers. Game 2 was more of the same with me boarding out the combo and into a midrange deck (everything but Kataki, Rec Sage, and Eidolon). I overwhelmed him with value and won with 2 11/11 Knights while destroying his lands thanks to Path removing his only two basic lands. Bugler kept on finding Knights or EWits that Companies couldn't and kept the value train going. 2-0
Round 2 vs Mardu Pyromancer:
More of the same as round 1. The dude went Lootings into Pyromancer and I won some turns after with the combo by casting some Companies and Bugler finding what I wanted. Boarded the same as against Death's Shadow since I figured I couldn't combo again through all of the removal. The game this time went pretty long with him killing my turn 2 druid and resolving a LotV which I had to then throw away a Knight and Ewit to. I eventually got there though as he couldn't discard my companies, and I started chaining them to fill up the board. I found my Scooze and kept his graveyard out of relevant stuff while I had a Spellskite and Forge-Tender as backup. The Scooze then went on to continually attack him and win. 2-0
Round 3 vs UG Infect:
This was the guy I lost to in the top 8 of the PPTQ on Sunday. Game 3 was the only relevant one and super intense with him on the play. Turn 2 he has a Blighted Agent while I have a Temple Garden and Horizon Canopy to play a Devoted Druid. His turn 3 he hits me for 7 infect, and will hit me for a guaranteed 3 more the next turn so I have to win. I untap, and my hand is Vizier, Ghost Quarter, Bugler, and some other not relevant stuff. I play the Vizier with the Temple Garden since I can draw a card with Canopy. This is only better than playing Bugler if I draw a Chord or Company, so I figure I'll Bugler instead sine I can hit 2 Recruiters and 1 Ballista in 4 cards. I miss, but hit another Bugler. It then dawned on me that I could Ghost Quarter my land to get an untapped Plains and cast the second Bugler to tray again. Lo and behold it hits a Recruiter and I get a clutch win! You can watch the video of the match here. 2-1
Round 4 vs Eldrazi Tron:
This is the guy I beat in round 5 of the PPTQ. Games were grindy with me eventually using a Chord to get through his Chalice on 2 and win the game. It was weird since he know the Chord was coming but didn't Dismember the Druid... Game 2 was won off of the back of KotR and some land fetching shenanigans to block Reality Smashers after the wiped my graveyard. Again a misplay on his part as he should have waited and he would have won. Re-watching the footage I also missed a Duskwatch trigger, so I'll have to remember that for the future. It didn't matter though as it died the turn after. You can watch the video of the match here. 2-0
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Thoughts on the deck:
- I really really liked Bugler. The deck has been getting away from the graveyard more and more, but is still dependent with Eternal Witness and Knight of the Reliquary. It's not the worst is hate is brought in for it, but it certainly is annoying. Bugler helps get away from this (replacing Finks).
- Hitting a Bugler off of a Company almost guarantees hitting something that you need since you get to keep digging. I found if I was ever wanting a card I could always find it within the next 1-2 turns. It also makes the combo much more consistent meaning you will fizzle less when getting infinite mana.
- A downside with Bugler is that you are more dependent on W during the combo, so you have to be mindful to fetch it out.
- KotR is a beast, and is often the biggest thing on the battlefield. With Finks I found I was using it to chump and stay alive until I could squeak out a combo. Now for the same mana cost I am winning combats, ramping, and thinning my deck. You lose life gain in the deck, and if anything take more damage from fetches, so I can imagine the Burn matchups is suddenly harder.
- The plan of going super-combo maindeck and transitional value-midrange deck in the sideboard worked out well. I was able to race things like without interaction like Infect (and Affinity in pre-event games) while absolutely destroying the opponent with value post-board.
- I'm not sure what I want sideboard card #15 to be. Perhaps a Pridemage, or another Scooze...?
I will hopefully play this again Wednesday and see if I can replicate the results.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
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StaffMy shop has a lot of control and midrage decks so I wanted to be able to crush them at their own game in games 2 and 3. Sometimes I get lucky and combo game 1, but most times it's a slow grind with them removing druids and whatnot while the game slowly slips away from me. With the addition of KotR maindeck I think the game 1 is a bit better, but I still wanted to be able to side into a deck that is sure to beat them post-board.
Spellskite is the same reason as above. There is a lot of removal, as well as some Infect and Burn players around which Skite helps a lot against. Scales-Affinity has also become very popular. It's more there for the combo matchups when they bring in a bit of removal post-board, but it also helps in the Midrange matches where I can protect a Knight form a Push or something. Against Control & Spirits it stops Path which Spirit doesn't. Just an all around good utility creature.
Against Humans they only have 2 cards game 1, Reflector Mage and Meddling Mage. I can outrace them game 1 unless they get lucky, and post board there are enough tools to remove some threats and squeak in a combo. Hollow One has little removal, so we can combo faster than them if they don't have a blazing-fast start. Knights stop Hollow Ones and Buglers stop Bloodghasts. Same for Vengevine, they have little removal compared to other decks so I am fine with still trying to slip the combo under them.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
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Staff4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Eternal Witness
3 Militia Bugler
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Walking Ballista
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
Lands (22)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Temple Garden
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Field of Ruin
4 Forest
1 Plains
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Spellskite
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
3 Path to Exile
1 Worship
My loss was to UW Control, 0-2. Game 1 I kept a 1 land hand with Hierarch, Druid, Druid, Vizier, Chord, EWit, Forest. On turn 2 I drew a second Chord, and he Logic Knotted my Druid for 1. If I had drawn a land it would have resolved and I was pretty confident in my chances, but alas I didn't. I went on to draw Chords for 2 more turns, so I had all 4 in hand before I got my second land. Wasn't winning that one. Second game was more of the same, with a T2 Bugler finding Druid, playing the Druid T3, and him wrathing the board on his T4. From there he stabilized with a Teferi and then Jace, so I was lost at that point. I hoped to see a Company so I could start trying to flood the board with it and EWits, but never saw either card and was grinded out.
The control matchup was pretty bad, especially with them playing Terminus now. My strategy was to force the combo and hope they can't Logic Knot for enough on Turn 2, as we aren't going to win the long game. Their Planeswalkers out value us, unlike other midrange decks that we can play the grindy-value game with. Perhaps adding a Breeding Pool and 3 Unified Will to the sideboard is the best bet for this matchup. Countering their first wrath or PW will give us a window to try and win. Thoughts on the matchup?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I am having a hard time on what to take out. Any help is greatly appreciated!
I run a fairly stock list of:
Spells
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Devoted Druid
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Vizier of Remedies
3 Militia Bugler / Tireless Tracker
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Walking Ballista
Lands
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
2 Temple Garden
1 Field of Ruin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Breeding Pool
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Gavony Township
Sideboard
3 Path to Exile
3 Unified Will
1 Shalai Voice of Plenty / FLEX SPOT
1 Worship
1 Selfless Spirit / FLEX SPOT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage