What are everybody's thoughts on this one? Seems pretty good
I like it, but I'm not sure we want it.
What's critical is what it could possibly replace, and whether it's worth dropping anything for this effect.
It's basically a worse lead the stampede, but on a body. It's a nice way to generate additional value off a coco and see ten cards instead of six. That's cool. But is it worth the slot? Seems tenuous?
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
What are everybody's thoughts on this one? Seems pretty good
I like it, but I'm not sure we want it.
What's critical is what it could possibly replace, and whether it's worth dropping anything for this effect.
It's basically a worse lead the stampede, but on a body. It's a nice way to generate additional value off a coco and see ten cards instead of six. That's cool. But is it worth the slot? Seems tenuous?
I think it will compete for Rallier. Thinking of going just GW, since I played the Abzan version over the weekend in GP CPH side events and never comboed off with Finks in 18 rounds!
So on the finks combo:
There's one solid reason to keep it in and that's redundancy. If you run vizier and the only other card that interacts with it favourably is druid, then you are reducing your efficacy and consistency overall. That pushes you towards a scenario where you run less viziers (because alone, they suck) and you aim to assemble the combo by casting chord or company to get there. Kind of like coco elves running 1x vizier.
By running finks, you have another card that interacts favourably with vizier and makes the card more worthwhile to run as a playset. An opener with finks and vizier is 2/3 of the way towards an infinite combo, whereas (for sake of argument, if you dropped the finks combo from the deck) a hand of vizier and anything else would be medium-power garbage beatdown.
The black splash to accommodate viscera seer is minimal and not too painful. It allows additional sideboard tech from sin collector, kambal, orzhov pontiff, abrupt decay and my favourite bit of nasty tech these days; liliana, The last hope.
Im not saying straight GW can't work. I am suggesting though, that losing the finks combo definitely pushes you towards dropping down on vizier. By itself, it's a two mana do-nothing.
Another point of note; you say you haven't assembled the finks combo in some arbitrarily large amount of matches. However there's something important to consider. Without the combo you likely wouldn't be running maindeck finks. How many grindy games have you won because you were able to loop, recur and reset a finks or two? Whether you elected to dive on the combo or not, the pieces themselves are useful.
Finally, I also share your experience and most of the time don't take play-lines which lead me to the finks combo. That's a matter or choice though. One could definitely push for assembling the viscera seer finks combo nearly every game if one wanted to. It's just that infinite life isn't always as definitive as a million damage to the face from a walking ballista. I purposefully take lines towards the devoted druid angle and often ignore the finks combo unless I absolutely need to gain a bunch of life at instant speed. It's a backup, and most of the time I choose to go for the primary wincon instead. That doesn't necessarily mean that the backup is worthless though. I've definitely won games where a quick finks combo bamboozled an opponent out of nowhere, at instant speed.
If we're dropping black altogether, I'm highly incentivised to go Naya colours (RGW) and drop down on the number of viziers. I'd also want to consider morphing the deck more towards a value-driven combo deck in the vein of Kiki-Chord. I'd start running maindeck paths, maybe a couple bolt/lightning helix and i'd spring for one or two resto angel to flicker my witnesses (although in limited numbers to ensure that collected company would still be a solid include). Todd Stevens runs a single avacyn and resto angel isn't too far removed that it couldn't work. I may even consider running a single Kiki. That direction has a proven track record and could legitimately be a solid contender in modern. It wouldn't take much to tweak the deck in that direction and still retain the core principles and game-plan of the deck.
@purklefluff Your idea is to fit the devoted combo into a kiki combo? Is more difficult than the kitchen's combo, and if you put the lightning helix and some resto angels your coco gets worse.
What's your idea of a list?
Well not exactly. If I dropped black and lost viscera seer I'd probably move into red as the splash colour. I'd look at leveraging eternal witness a bit more heavily alongside bolts and similar. It drop down on viziers but i'd go up on other useful one-ofs like knight of the reliquary, courser of kruphix, tireless tracker etc. I'd also look at running 1x resto angel. Kiki was an afterthought rather than a true deck building direction but it's possible that it would be worth running (unclear, but at the very least it wouldn't be an embarrassing choice). Importantly I'd just push the deck more towards a grindy value deck with a combo option rather than a combo deck with a grindy backup plan.
That's just me though. I'm also looking at very seriously trying todd Stevens' value-town deck which looks fantastic, although it's worth noting it doesn't play chord or any pieces of the combo, so it's a different beast altogether.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Great results, especially in a field riddled with Tron. The other matchups that seemed very prevalent were Hollow One, KCI, and Humans which all pack little to no removal meaning the deck can combo off as it pleases. Seems like a good position for the deck these days.
21 person MNM - 5 rounds. I played teh GW Counters deck, similar to Kendall Burdette's SCG Classic winning list.
Round 1 vs. UW Spirits/Hatebears. In the first game, I kept a hand with dorks, lands, and Chord of Calling. He goes turns 2 and 3 Leonin Arbiters, then turn 4 Selfless Spirit and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. I drew more mana dorks, but couldn't get around the Arbiters while he Pathed the Knight of the Reliquary. He got me with those Bears. In the next game, he got Mausoleum Wanderers and Selfless Spirits with a Spell Queller, but I get enough lands and dorks to Tireless Tracker, land, crack a clue to draw Worship, then stabilize in time to find the combo. I should clarify that I had a turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary and turn 3 Courser of Kruphix to gain nearly as much life as the Spirits did to me. In the next game, he got mana screwed a bit and when he cast a Leonin Arbiter, I Ghost Quartered his 1 White source and he didn't have plays after this. My life gain from Courser and Knight of the Reliquary was pretty much offsetting his 2 Selfless Spirit attackers, not to mention I had Path to Exile in case the Leonin got annoying. Got there with attacks. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Merfolk. I comboed out on turn 4 instead of 3 with Chord of Calling, just in case his Aether Vial on 1 got Cursecatcher, but he didn't have it anyway. He tried a Harbinger of the Tides for Devoted Druid, but I just untapped by putting a -1/-1 counter on it, then comboed out to win. In the next game, his Vial and bunch of Lords start was too quick. Couldn't even find the 2nd part of the combo. Missed a land drop to potentially Chord. In the next game, I go off on turn 3 and win. He seemed visibly upset. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Mardu Reveler. This guy ended up 1st. He got a bunch of removal and Young Pyromancer to get through, as my mull to 6 and a 1 lander didn't produce a 2nd land until it was too late. Three dead Noble Hierarch. In the next game, he got stuck on 2 land and I curved out pretty well with a Company and then a Tireless Tracker into fetchland. He scooped soon thereafter. For game 3, I had a strong hand - 3 lands, Birds of Paradise, Knight of the Reliquary, Collected Company, Avacyn. He tore it apart with Collective Brutality and Inquisition of Kozilek and I was down to Avacyn vs. Soul's tokens. It seemed like it would have been good for a while, but he drew Faithless Looting when he had 1 card in hand, enabling Bedlam Reveler to be drawn, getting him Terminate for the Avacyn and the beats were on. I drew 2 lands to cap at 7 and scooped. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. I am paired down against a newer kid. I combo out on turn 4, despite a mull and a slow start. But I top decked Vizier and Recruiter to win easily. In the next game, 2 Path to Exile slow him down, then Chord for Kataki wrecks him. I needed to get a Stony Silence in case he drew a land after paying mana for Cranial Plating and made the Blinkmoth attack me for 3 instead of 1. I was at 1 life when I won. I drew Duskwatch Recruiter and it was over. 2-0.
Round 5 vs. Abzan Counters. He comboed out quicker in game 1, but had nothing to do but cast creatures with his infinite mana. I top deck the Vizier; the last piece, and win easily. In the next game, he mulled to 5 and had a horrible hand while I drew the pieces and got there on turn 4. 2-0.
I finish 4-1 for 2nd place on tiebreakers. Drew pretty well all day and felt lucky to draw better in the mirror.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Cleric is great. Not going to suit every sideboard, but looks like the best graveyard hate currently available in modern that you can chord for. A good step up in terms of disrupting combos at instant speed, and so on.
I'm pretty excited by this card.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I used Ballestin93's 5-0 list as a template and swapped some cards. I tried the Bant version previously but it felt clunky and when I saw this list, I thought I'd give another try.
1. Round vs Jeskai Control (2-0)
I won G1 value town-ing my opponent and didn't show the combo. I comboed G2 when he tapped out for Geist of Saint Traft.
+ Archangel Avacyn; Shalai, Voice of Plenty; Eidolon of Rhetoric - Birds of Paradise; Vizier of Remedies; Qasali Pridemage
2. Round vs Mono-Black Devotion (2-1)
I comboed in G1 and G3, Opponent did win G2 with 3 Phyrexian Obliterator and me having combo without drawing any Finisher.
+ 2 Worship; 3 Path to Exile - Devoted Druid; 2 Vizier of Remedies; Qasali Pridemage; Rhonas the Indomitable
3. Round vs Jeskai Control (0-2)
A friend of mine, was a real beating. He basically had all the answers.
4. Round vs Mardu Pyromancer (2-0)
Also a friend, I killed him G1 with 3 Knights, had the combo in G2
+ 2 Worship; 3 Path to Exile; - Vizier of Remedies; 2 Devoted Druid; Rhonas the Indomitable; Qasali Pridemage
Drew Round 5 to secure Top8
Top8 vs Mardu Pyromancer (1) (1-2)
I was 8th and had to play against the nr.1 seed, he won all his matches and only lost 1 game. G1 was really close, had the luck to have Rhonas and Knights. G2 & G3 was not even close. I kept solid 7 and 6, and he drew all the discardspells.
The Deck feels really great. Is there any tech against Jeskai Control or Mardu Pyromancer? Those matchups feel really bad in my opinion.
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Modern: GWUKnightfall WUSpirits GWBCounters Company
Legacy: WBGR Aggro Loam
I used Ballestin93's 5-0 list as a template and swapped some cards. I tried the Bant version previously but it felt clunky and when I saw this list, I thought I'd give another try.
1. Round vs Jeskai Control (2-0)
I won G1 value town-ing my opponent and didn't show the combo. I comboed G2 when he tapped out for Geist of Saint Traft.
+ Archangel Avacyn; Shalai, Voice of Plenty; Eidolon of Rhetoric - Birds of Paradise; Vizier of Remedies; Qasali Pridemage
2. Round vs Mono-Black Devotion (2-1)
I comboed in G1 and G3, Opponent did win G2 with 3 Phyrexian Obliterator and me having combo without drawing any Finisher.
+ 2 Worship; 3 Path to Exile - Devoted Druid; 2 Vizier of Remedies; Qasali Pridemage; Rhonas the Indomitable
3. Round vs Jeskai Control (0-2)
A friend of mine, was a real beating. He basically had all the answers.
4. Round vs Mardu Pyromancer (2-0)
Also a friend, I killed him G1 with 3 Knights, had the combo in G2
+ 2 Worship; 3 Path to Exile; - Vizier of Remedies; 2 Devoted Druid; Rhonas the Indomitable; Qasali Pridemage
Drew Round 5 to secure Top8
Top8 vs Mardu Pyromancer (1) (1-2)
I was 8th and had to play against the nr.1 seed, he won all his matches and only lost 1 game. G1 was really close, had the luck to have Rhonas and Knights. G2 & G3 was not even close. I kept solid 7 and 6, and he drew all the discardspells.
The Deck feels really great. Is there any tech against Jeskai Control or Mardu Pyromancer? Those matchups feel really bad in my opinion.
Yeah, kitchen finks and eternal witness are good in those matchups, along with nice sideboard tech such as orzhov pontiff, reveillark and sigarda, host of herons.
Sin collector is also good in matchups where you fear powerful sweepers (and good against burn as well, of course)
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
The trick to beating Jeskai and Mardu is voice of resurgence. I play 3 main and they singlehandedly swing both matchups hugely.
I play a value town list but with a very light black splash for finks+viscera seer main and 2x maelstrom pulse in the sb. Pulse kills Teferi and is dead in very few matchups- it is easily the best card in my sb.
By having voice to force a 2 for 1 out of your opponent, it allows you to get that little bit ahead on cards enough to let knight live for a turn, tutor for wolf run, then have that card take over from there.
For Jeskai I still board a thrun even with 3 voice. Thrun is much stronger with kessig wolf run in your deck as it is even harder to stone wall.
A major point for the Jeskai matchup is to sandbag a gq/FoR in your hand if possible so they can't kill it & you can then deploy it to take down a flipped sfa with only one activation ( ideally casting a company etc that turn to tap them out first so they can't).
I've been playing this deck for over a year now and am first on the leader board for my store, so it's been very good to me.
I played Turbo Vizier at a 23 person FNM. Had a rough evening, but it was fun!
Round 1 vs. Infect. Game 1 I mull to 5. I should have mulled to 4 possibly, but I figured how I could beat Tron with that. I play Mishra's Bauble to see Blossoming Defense on his library and play a Hall of the Bandit Lord. That's all I play and lose to an Infect dude. In the next game, I find the pieces and go off on turn 3 to win with Pact of Negation backup. He didn't end up having any interaction anyway. In game 3, he Dismembered my Devoted Druid, then killed me on turn 3 with Spell Pierce backup. I would have had game on my turn 3 if he didn't have any of those 3 cards (or 2 before he drew the other one for his turn 3 draw step). 1-2.
Round 2 vs. E Tron. In the first game, I play a bunch of cards to find Vizier and I can't. He makes a huge mistake of only exiling 1 Devoted Druid. Lord knows why. He exiles the top 20 cards of my library and I see that there are 2 more Vizier of Remedies in the bottom 14 cards. I draw one and win. In the next game, he mulls and goes for a Walking Ballista on my Vizier of Remedies that I just cast. I get a million Green mana in response and cast the Walking Ballista that I showed him that I top decked that turn. (I had another one in hand, but I wanted to make it more dramatic. Am I a flaming douchebag for this? You have to also know this particular opponent, who has put many of my friends on tilt before, although we've never had a problem.) 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Control. I go off on my turn 3 and he tries to Countersquall my Summoner's Pact, but I Pact of Negation. Pacts... In the next game, I'm pretty sure I punted. He got stuck on Watery Grave and Field of Ruins, but I felt like he'd draw the 3rd land any time. He didn't. I played a Devoted Druid because I could not find Vizier of Remedies. He Fatal Pushed it and then paid 2 life to Surgical Extraction it. This left me on the beatdown plan. I should have just waited for a Hall. But he also had turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek in game 1, so I was weary of losing the Druid to that too. I go on the beat down plan, but he draws a land in time to double Bolt, double Snapcaster Mage/Bolt, and double K Command. In the final game, he just has too much for me and I cannot find a Vizier of Remedies until a Tasigur and ScM beat my brains in. It put me on a clock since I would have had to pay 3 life for Hall or leave it vulnerable. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. RW Enduring Ideal. This guy has some insane luck against me. Once I realize that my win-con is Walking Ballista, I assume Leyline of SanctitIES will be played before the game starts. It happens pregame. But I get to a board state where I Hall in a Devoted Druid, then Hall my Walking Ballista to swing for lethal damage before he can play a Runed Halo, which I assumed was in his hand. The problem? I forgot that I already used Hall of the Bandit Lord for Devoted Druid, so I can't then use it for the Walking Ballista. We realize it when we're shuffling. I actually wasn't so sure, but it made sense that I ****ed up. We play another one, which ends when I do a Rec Sage on Solemnity, then search up Walking Ballista and another Rec Sage with infinite mana to kill a Runed Halo and end the game. We played another one since the first one felt bad, we were playing for no prizes, and just to see. I keep on 2 land, Gaddock TEeg, and lord knows what else. I beat down, but he gets Ghostly Prison. Then he gets another after I keep beating down. I can't find the Duskwatch Recruiter and he had Solemnity, Runed Halo on Walking Ballista, and Leyline of Sanctity like the other 2 games so I need to find stuff. The funny part is that I did some search cards like Adventurous Impulse that whiffed a bunch of times, while going past cards that I sided this tournament JUST for this player - Back to Nature, Tempest of Light, and Disenchant. Got the Duskwatch Recruiter with Summoner's Pact #2 in my bottom 13 cards and won. 2-0. (2-1? or 3-0?)
I finish 2-2, which is out of the prizes, but nearly beating Grixis Control was cool and knowing that my deck beats the round 1 player's normal deck (Tron) also felt okay until I Mishra's Bauble his Blossoming Defense on top of his library.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
That looks like an amazing Day 1! I'm sorry about the Day 2. The matchups seemed quite odd too, facing 3 Abzan Viziers and 5 Humans
Regarding the deck, 4 Tracker in the main looks interesting. I love Tireless Tracker. In fact, I think it's still my favorite Modern legal card right now (or 2nd favorite after Griselbrand), but I'm not so sure that 4 main board is the way to go. I like going to Knight of the Reliquary for at least some of those slots; of course Knight is a 0 of or 4 of, so you'd have to make a cut or 2 elsewhere. Thanks for the report. Is there any way that you could go into detail on the matches? I understand if you can't; not everyone has the time to do it, but I personally LOOOOVE reading them.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I really like my list other than the sideboard. I was expecting a ton of KCI and lots of Jund and Jeskai, but overall it perforemed very well, here are my matchups.
Round 1: Bant Spirits (2-1)
I combo'ed game 1 faster than he could really get set up, game 2 he beat me down after exiling my T2 druid with path, and G3 I beat him with the combo.
1-0 Overall
Round 2: Dredge (0-2)
This was the list that ended up getting 24th. G1 I was on the draw and had a T3 combo hand, but he opened up with a strong faithless looting getting conflagrate into the graveyard to kill my T2 Druid and it was downhill from there. G2 I also had a T3 Combo in hand, but he had a lightning axe for the druid, later this game he ended up killing two of my creatures with darkblasts after I made them indestructible with selfless spirit. It felt like a pretty unwinnable matchup
1-1 Overall
Round 3: Grixis Death's Shadow (0-2)
G1 I Kept a pretty Sketchy hand that had a T2 Druid in hopes of an early combo, but his disruption and removal tore it apart pretty easily, I don't remeber much about this game. G2 We both Mulled to 6, I kept a hand with Collected Company,two landsand some other stuff, but he opened with T1 Inquisition, T2 Thoughtseize, T3 Thoughtseize, T4 Snap Thoughtseize, and I never drew more than two lands and couldn't cast anything.
1-2 Overall
At this point I was a bit discouraged, this is my first big event and I've been playing this deck for ~2 years and just got beat pretty bad by 2 bad matchups and my chances of making day 2 are very slim, I have to win the next 6.
Round 4: Humans (2-1)
I don't remember much about this match, I think I started on the play G1 and G3 and combo'ed T3 both games, and he won G2 with a reflector mage bouncing Druid.
2-2 overall
Round 5: Free Win Red (2-1)
This match was hilarious, G1 She's on the play and has T1 Mountain, Spirit Guide, Ritual, Blood Moon. I run a lot of basics so I figured I'd be fine, but I drew none and a Spirit guide attacking finished me off, Games 2 and 3 I won after fighting through removal, chalace, blood moon, and bridge were all pretty dead cards which helped me a lot and knight dodged Anger of the Gods pretty well.
3-2 Overall
Round 6: Mono G Tron (2-1)
G1 I go to combo and he has spatial contortion followed by Ugin the next turn. Games 2 and 3 I combo him out after keeping him off tron with Ghost Quarter.
4-2 Overall
Round 7: Affinity (2-1)
Game 1 I'm on the play and have a T3 combo. Game 2 he has whipflair for the T2 druid and finishes up after that. Game 3 I have a hand with two druids, one gets galvanic blasted and the other sticks and wins me the game off the combo.
5-2 Overall
Round 8: Humans (2-1)
This was Dylan Hand on humans, he's got multiple top 8's with the deck so at this point I figured I'd pick up my 3rd loss and be out of top 8. He destroyed me G1 I kept a not great hand and was punished for it. G2 I was on the play and had a T3 combo. G3 We go a while and he has multiple Thalia's Lieutenants and a Meddling mage on Collected Company, but I have a druid, a Rhonas, a duskwatch, and a bunch of mana dorks on my side. At one point he makes a big swing to put me to 5 and after a while I decided to take it since he has 1 card in hand and I don't think I can get punished, so I go to 5 and activate duskwatch on his end step finding nothing, I draw a land for turn and activate again, this time finding vizier with just enough mana to cast it and win.
6-2 Overall
Round 9: Humans (2-1)
At this point I was pretty nervous because I was so close to making day 2 after a pretty bad start. I win the dice roll and combo turn 3 or 4 after she plays mantis rider and compies it with image. Game 2 she has Hierarch into reflector mage which is super bad for me, she ends up steamrolling me. Game 3 I mull and play druid on T2 with the vizier and chord in hand, she thinks for a while and plays champion of the parish and mantis rider. I untap and go to combo and she gut shots vizier, but I just combo in response.
7-2 Overall
Day 2
Round 10: Humans (1-2)
I combo game 1, but game 2 he has multiple reflector mages and wins from there. Game 3 I mull to 5 with a druid and 1 land, I scry a bird to the bottom because I think my best shot is hitting land and trying to drop druid before relector mage or meddling mage, but I don't hit the land until t3 and at that point he has meddling mage naming devoted druid and he goes on to win it.
7-3 Overall
Round 11: Eldrazi Tron (2-1)
Game 1 combo, Game 2 lost I don't remember how. Game 3 He sides in a ton, eventually playing Grafdiggers Cage, Sourcerous Spyglass naming Druid, and a chalice on 2. I landed a Knight and used Ghost quarter to keep him off tron and eventually that and a tireless tracker finished him off.
8-3 Overall
Round 12: Blue Moon (1-2)
This was Ross Meriam's deck, I had just been watching him play in the feature match area so I knew he was on U/R with bolts and spell snares, which isn't great for me. But knowing this I kept a hand G1 with Avacyn's Pilgrim, 2 fetches, and a Knight I figured he couldn't beat T2 4/4 Knight on the play, and he couldn't. He won game 2 pretty convincingly off Cryptic commands and Thing in the Ice. Game three we traded creatures ad removal and at one point he let a Collected Company Resolve so I guessed that was my greenlight to go aggressive and try to win before he had answers, but the turn I swung for lethal he used cryptic to tap my team and he then chained cryptics and snapcasters until he won off a thing in the ice.
8-4 Overall
Round 13: Burn (2-0)
Both games I had my Courser of Krufix in hand and neither were particularly close, game 2 I had worship and Rhonas which he couldn't beat.
9-4 Overall
Round 14: Bant Knightfall (2-0)
I beat this guy the round right after he was on camera, He led G1 with 2 reflector mages but not much else and I combo him. G2 I don't really remeber, but I think I combo'ed him when he had a Knight out and was looking for a retreat to coralhelm.
10-4 Overall
Round 15 U/W Control (0-2)
If I win this match I would top 32, which was exciting. G1 He got stuck on lands, but I couldn't capitalize despite drawing 4 cards off of tireless tracker clues, he eventually landed teferi and won from there. Game 2 I had a great start that included T3 4/4 Knight, Rhonas, and flipped Duskwatch recruiter putting him very low and before he had mana for Supreme verdict. The next turn he untapped and blind flipped Terminus, which I think is about the only card that would've kept him in that game. As I put my cards on the bottom a judge who was casually watching out match asked to see my Duskwatch, he stepped away from the table and came back saying he could see it through my sleeve and that it would be a game loss for me, meaning the end of the tournament. My opponent appealed to the head judge, but the head judge stuck with the ruling. I was playing with double sleeved Sky Blue Dragonshield Mattes and the only way the Flip side was visible was if it was held up to the light. But rules are rules and thats how my tournament ended dropping me down to 42nd place.
I'm very happy with how I did, the deck played great. I mulliganed a lot and it felt great, a lot of decks can't beat T2 druid.
If anyone has questions feel free to ask, sorry this was so long I've never done one of these before.
As far as the number of times winning with the combo vs winning with creature damage it was almost always the combo. Unless the opponent has lots of removal using the combo is easier to assemble and it lets you win before their deck can really get set up. I generally went into matchups wanting to combo, and if their deck ran tons of removal (Death's shadow, Dredge, Jeskai) I would resort to the Knight plan. With that being said I still really like knight over the kitchen finks combo because it is a lot better against tron (being able to fetch up Ghost Quarters) and if you have two fetchlands it doesn't die to lightning bolt. It feels like it gives me more options than finks.
The Courser and Tracker both work very well with the Knights, and additionally courser blocks very well against burn and other aggro decks and doesn't die to bolt or helix. It definitely could be another creature, but I liked it most times I got it, but wouldn't want to play more than one. Tracker on the other hand is pretty amazing in that you can drop it turn four against a grindy deck and play a fetch and get two clues and even if it does you get a lot of value. Also
I've had a lot of times where I get the mana combo, but don't have a payoff so I can play tracker make a clue and dig for the combo. I've won a couple times like that. I almost never chord for them because chording for the combo or knight is almost always better.
I've seen some people play shalai main, but I'm not a huge fan because it doesn't protect from board wipes, it acts as a mana sink, but seems a bit more awkward. I refer Rhonas because it's harder to for decks to remove and if you have lots of mana pumping a knight or and giving trample can end the game. Also if you get the mana combo then CoCo you can hit rhonas as a way to win the game, whereas you can't with shalai.
Two Duskwatch Recruiters has always seemed fine, I've never really considered going up to 4, but it's a pretty good card that helps dig for vizier. I rarely have the mana combo without a way to combo since I have 2 Recruiter, 1 Ballista, 1 Rhonas, 4 Chord, and 4 Company that can usually hit it.
6 Dorks and 23 lands has also been something I've played forever and never had a problem with, I don't have Noble Heriarch so I don't wanna go up to 3 Avacyn's Pilgrim, I can usually hit two lands and a druid on T2 on either my 7,6, or 5 card hand, so it works out pretty well usually.
1 Razorverge Thicket used to be two, but got swapped for a canopy, it usually enters untapped and provides green for druid and white for vizier on the first 3 turns which is pretty good, it could probably be a forest though. Notably it plays poorly with Knight because it can't be sacrificed. I don't like field of ruin because i like being able to hit a tron land t2 or 3 without taking my entire turn, Maybe I should run 1 field of ruin, but ghost quarter seems fine. I think manlands are too slow, especially when you're trying to combo on turn 3 most games I don't think you can really afford a hand with a tapped land, It would work nicely with knight though, but that's your backup plan.
Voice is good at providing an early clock and taking up multiple removal spells, Thrun is likely better, I'm not too high on voice right now and actually took them out after this tournamnt. In a similar vein, the idea behind avacyn was that it saves your board from a wipe and can also sweep the boards of humans/Elves/The mirror while leaving you with knights or courser or trackers that are big enough. However, it's expensive and never really worked out like that, I also took this out after this tournament, but would be willing to give it a second chance.
I do mulligan A LOT, I feel like thats a huge key to this deck, a lot of decks can't beat a T3 Combo and even a lot of 5 card hands can get you there. Hands that do nothing until turn 3 are always a mull, most decks don't have a lot of removal and if you can pick up a lot of free wins, and even if you don't get to combo on turn 3 (maybe because they had removal for druid) as long as you aren't playing against a removal heavy midrange or control deck your chances of winning after a mull to 6 or 5 are often still pretty good because collected company or knight can dig you out of holes, also end of turn chord for 2 getting druid can often lead to a topdecked combo, you've just got to play to your outs.
Hello !
Thanks for you report !
I am very interesting in this kind of list because i will test for a GP. Some questions :
-you seems to have win 90% of times with combo and never with knight, do you think knight is a nice choice after that ?
-i never understand this random courser and tracker, i don't see in which world you will often chord for them. Any shalai seems todo the both job (mana sink and rape burn + combo piece)
-Why 2 duskwatch recruiters ?
-Why 6 mana dork and 23 lands ?
-Why rhonas over shalai ? Why only 1 worhsip ?
-What's you feeling about voice in SB ? I think it's a good way to fight grindy/control match-ups but thrun seems better to crush control and helps in jund/mardu match-ups (where knight version is pretty close i guess)
-Why avacyn in SB ? I guess she's nice against humans (better than a cataclysmic gearhulk ?) but a 5-ccm fair spell is strange.
-Why 1 thicket ? No field of ruin ? no manlands ? only 2 canopy and why 2 temple garden ?
-I have the feeling you mulligan a lot because you always search T2 druid or T3 company, is it true ?
Sorry if i ask too much questions but i work a lot on this deck actually so it will help me a lot !
I know it's not my report or my deck, but I'll try to answer as well.
It comes down to Kitchen Finks vs. Knight of the Reliquary. Finks is better in some situations, but Knight is usually better once it's not summoning sick, whether it's thinning the deck, finding lands that destroy lands, or getting draws with Horizon Canopy.
The Tracker and Courser are just random value creatures to hit off CoCo. Going for the combo is number 1, but there needs to be a certain creature density to make CoCo hit and these were the best choices. I actually also have never wanted to Chord for Tracker and the 1 time I did it, I ended up regretting it, lol.
I feel that 2 Duskwatch Recruiters are acceptable. I personally play 4 in my GW version though.
I think that 22-23 land and 7 mana dorks are the right answer. I personally enjoy running 22 lands and I've always felt that if I'm trying to hit a potential 3 drop, I need to run 8 mana dorks, so that's what I've always run. Now that I have Devoted Druid in the deck, I run 5 mana dorks (4 Noble Hierarch and 1 Birds of Paradise).
Rhonas can be hit off Company. That's pretty much it. In some corner cases in long drawn out games, it can turn extra lands and a mana dork into a serious threat. I personally am a bit unsure about whether to leave it in vs. BGx decks or Mardu Pyromancer decks. I have yet to try Shalai in this deck or actually draw Shalai in the Humans deck that I sided it in the SB for. 1 Worship is probably just a case of not having enough open spots in the side. I feel that 2 is the optimal number, as it is a card that you just kind of want to get in some cases and have no chance of losing.
Voice of Resurgence is good vs. Control, Midrange, and even solid vs. Burn, but there often are not enough spots for it. It can swing these matches a couple of points, but these are going to usually be tough anyway, so I'm not sure how you want to go about that.
Avacyn is mostly for board wipes or just to catch your opponent off-guard. Nobody expects Company to flash out an Avacyn and that in itself can win games. Tap out for Supreme Verdict, sure, flash in Avacyn, swing for lethal next turn?
Razorverge Thicket is bad. Not running enough Horizon Canopy is a budget choice, but I can understand. I have had Canopies since the beginning of Modern and even wanted to buy the IMA ones as well, but they skyrocketed from $30 to around $45 right now. The ship has sailed.
I do believe that there are a lot of matchups in which you do have to aggressively mulligan. The mirror is a good example. The only way you are winning in the mirror, outside of some odd Linvala being landed safely, is to combo first. This means not just infinite mana, but the actual win-con. I personally hadn't played the mirror until 3 weeks ago. Now I have played it 3 times, going 2-1, and have learned to loathe it. Affinity is another example. If you think you're beating Affinity with non Rhonas combat damage, you're kidding yourself.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
My word is definitely NOT set in stone. I have only played Company for over a year, but have also played a LOT of other decks in that span. Currently, I am probably switching off it to run KCI or Humans.
This is the list I wanted to try and I honestly haven't worked out all the kinks yet. For example, in the first tournament with Avacyn, I didn't draw it, so I literally felt like it was a wasted spot. But I did get it in the next tournament and although it didn't win the game (opponent drew Terminate on an empty hand with Mardu Pyromancer), it seemed really strong. It singlehandedly shut him down for a couple of turns until he drew Terminate. I still need to play test it. I think the good part about the card is that nobody expects it. They think, "oh, here comes Collected Company, what's the worst that could happen?" Nope, here comes Avacyn (or Company if you have that and that is better).
If I had more of a chance to try the list (I've played it in 5 small tournaments), then I could give better input. Right now, it's mostly theory and some from running Bant Knightfall and Abzan Counters Company and before Vizier, Abzan Company. Most of what I'm saying is on theory or a very limited number of matches.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Hi guys, I would like some opinions about the SB material below:
Cataclysmic Gearhulk have anyone tried this as a mass removal? Do we have enough time to clear humans board with it? Kambal, Consul of Allocation I think this card kills storm and KCI (we alread have Eidolon of Rhetoric). Which one is better as SB? Linvala, Keeper of Silence used to love her, but the applications now is too narrow, probably only mirror Tidehollow Sculler to take out removals and to combo easier, but seems bad and I dont imagine myself chording for it. Maybe worth as a 4of MB depending on the meta Tireless Tracker good card in general, but is this SB material? We can have Voice of Resurgence as a better control SB option
Hi guys, I would like some opinions about the SB material below:
Cataclysmic Gearhulk have anyone tried this as a mass removal? Do we have enough time to clear humans board with it? Kambal, Consul of Allocation I think this card kills storm and KCI (we alread have Eidolon of Rhetoric). Which one is better as SB? Linvala, Keeper of Silence used to love her, but the applications now is too narrow, probably only mirror Tidehollow Sculler to take out removals and to combo easier, but seems bad and I dont imagine myself chording for it. Maybe worth as a 4of MB depending on the meta Tireless Tracker good card in general, but is this SB material? We can have Voice of Resurgence as a better control SB option
I have no experience with Cataclysmic Gearhulk. It may be worth trying in the future.
I haven't liked Kambal much in the Abzan Counters SB much in the past. Maybe he's better now? But like yriel said, he's not Bolt-Proof. I feel safer with Eidolon of Rhetoric, while feeling vulnerable with Kambal.
Linvala is really good if you expect to see the Company type decks. It can often be too slow against Affinity, although I still side it in. Then again, I haven't had much experience with her since I always try to dodge mirrors and it has worked for the most part until just recently.
I personally liked Tidehollow Sculler. I felt that in some matchups, it DESTROYED my opponents, while others it was actively BAD. I still have my memories of Chording for one in response to a UR Breach opponent's Through the Breach, nabbing Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn or destroying our LGS best player on Ad Nauseam, so there are good memories. If I did Abzan Counters again, I would start with 4 of these mainboard mostly because of my familiarity with them in that list. (I know how to play that list.)
Tireless Tracker is easily one of my favorite creatures in Modern. I often overuse them as well, but I would never run more than 3 in the 75 of Company. It just depends on what "grindy" tool you want. I like them in grindy matches like Jund or the like, but I LOOOOOVE them against Eldrazi. They easily get as big or even bigger than Eldrazi, while netting card advantage for later. I guess if you don't see these types of decks often, it loses much of its power. Ideally you shouldn't see these matchups that often since BGx and Eldrazi are doing pretty badly right now (outside of the occasional GR Eldrazi). I mean your first goal is to Combo vs. Eldrazi, but they have some Lightning Bolts, Dismembers, and even an Engineered Explosives or 2 to slow you down. Hopefully that slows them down enough for a Tireless Tracker to then take over the game. Plus, it cost more than they can EE Sunburst for.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Can we talk for a moment about Militia Bugler and how much I am hyping it an unreasonable amount. There is a lot of talk about it in Humans to replace their few flex slots, as well as in D&T to up its consistency. After reading Frank Karsten's article I was thinking more about it and the numbers seem to be good.
You have a 25% chance to hit a certain 4-of in your top 4 cards, but the most important thing is that when playing 30-21 creatures as the deck normally does there is a 95% chance to hit any creature. This percentage doesn't even drop that much considering your opening hand and subsequent draws, since having 20 possible hits is still over an 80% chance, and really above a 70% chance for even 15 creatures. Seeing as the only cards with more than two power in a stock Abzan list are the Kitchen Finks, that's pretty good odds right there...
To even run the point home, the list of hits and misses include:
I'm thinking about the times you miss hitting a Druid or Vizier off of a Company, but do hit a Buglar letting you search the top 10 instead. If you want the most consistency then you can drop Finks and go the KotR route which I have tried, and seen played before. It slots easily into Bant since it hits both Spell Queller and Reflector Mage. Where I really like it is in the wacky the Aether Vial version of the deck since the creature goes to your hand, Vial lets you immediately cast it. All of the combo and hate cards are at 2cmc, with the card advantage (Ewit and Burglar) at 3cmc. It's a bit crazy, but I've made it work in the past and got some 4-0's.
Is anyone getting ready to play Militia Bugler come Friday? I will be but more people getting opinions on it is nice.
I didn't consider Militia Bugler in a deck like this, but you may be onto something...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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I like it, but I'm not sure we want it.
What's critical is what it could possibly replace, and whether it's worth dropping anything for this effect.
It's basically a worse lead the stampede, but on a body. It's a nice way to generate additional value off a coco and see ten cards instead of six. That's cool. But is it worth the slot? Seems tenuous?
So on the finks combo:
There's one solid reason to keep it in and that's redundancy. If you run vizier and the only other card that interacts with it favourably is druid, then you are reducing your efficacy and consistency overall. That pushes you towards a scenario where you run less viziers (because alone, they suck) and you aim to assemble the combo by casting chord or company to get there. Kind of like coco elves running 1x vizier.
By running finks, you have another card that interacts favourably with vizier and makes the card more worthwhile to run as a playset. An opener with finks and vizier is 2/3 of the way towards an infinite combo, whereas (for sake of argument, if you dropped the finks combo from the deck) a hand of vizier and anything else would be medium-power garbage beatdown.
The black splash to accommodate viscera seer is minimal and not too painful. It allows additional sideboard tech from sin collector, kambal, orzhov pontiff, abrupt decay and my favourite bit of nasty tech these days; liliana, The last hope.
Im not saying straight GW can't work. I am suggesting though, that losing the finks combo definitely pushes you towards dropping down on vizier. By itself, it's a two mana do-nothing.
Another point of note; you say you haven't assembled the finks combo in some arbitrarily large amount of matches. However there's something important to consider. Without the combo you likely wouldn't be running maindeck finks. How many grindy games have you won because you were able to loop, recur and reset a finks or two? Whether you elected to dive on the combo or not, the pieces themselves are useful.
Finally, I also share your experience and most of the time don't take play-lines which lead me to the finks combo. That's a matter or choice though. One could definitely push for assembling the viscera seer finks combo nearly every game if one wanted to. It's just that infinite life isn't always as definitive as a million damage to the face from a walking ballista. I purposefully take lines towards the devoted druid angle and often ignore the finks combo unless I absolutely need to gain a bunch of life at instant speed. It's a backup, and most of the time I choose to go for the primary wincon instead. That doesn't necessarily mean that the backup is worthless though. I've definitely won games where a quick finks combo bamboozled an opponent out of nowhere, at instant speed.
If we're dropping black altogether, I'm highly incentivised to go Naya colours (RGW) and drop down on the number of viziers. I'd also want to consider morphing the deck more towards a value-driven combo deck in the vein of Kiki-Chord. I'd start running maindeck paths, maybe a couple bolt/lightning helix and i'd spring for one or two resto angel to flicker my witnesses (although in limited numbers to ensure that collected company would still be a solid include). Todd Stevens runs a single avacyn and resto angel isn't too far removed that it couldn't work. I may even consider running a single Kiki. That direction has a proven track record and could legitimately be a solid contender in modern. It wouldn't take much to tweak the deck in that direction and still retain the core principles and game-plan of the deck.
Well not exactly. If I dropped black and lost viscera seer I'd probably move into red as the splash colour. I'd look at leveraging eternal witness a bit more heavily alongside bolts and similar. It drop down on viziers but i'd go up on other useful one-ofs like knight of the reliquary, courser of kruphix, tireless tracker etc. I'd also look at running 1x resto angel. Kiki was an afterthought rather than a true deck building direction but it's possible that it would be worth running (unclear, but at the very least it wouldn't be an embarrassing choice). Importantly I'd just push the deck more towards a grindy value deck with a combo option rather than a combo deck with a grindy backup plan.
That's just me though. I'm also looking at very seriously trying todd Stevens' value-town deck which looks fantastic, although it's worth noting it doesn't play chord or any pieces of the combo, so it's a different beast altogether.
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Staff2 Breeding Pool
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Eternal Witness
4 Forest
1 Gavony Township
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Judge's Familiar
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Plains
1 Reflector Mage
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Temple Garden
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Reflector Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Worship
And Jeremy Barbeau getting 12th place with an Abzan version of the deck
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Eternal Witness
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Spellskite
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
4 Windswept Heath
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Worship
Great results, especially in a field riddled with Tron. The other matchups that seemed very prevalent were Hollow One, KCI, and Humans which all pack little to no removal meaning the deck can combo off as it pleases. Seems like a good position for the deck these days.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Round 1 vs. UW Spirits/Hatebears. In the first game, I kept a hand with dorks, lands, and Chord of Calling. He goes turns 2 and 3 Leonin Arbiters, then turn 4 Selfless Spirit and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. I drew more mana dorks, but couldn't get around the Arbiters while he Pathed the Knight of the Reliquary. He got me with those Bears. In the next game, he got Mausoleum Wanderers and Selfless Spirits with a Spell Queller, but I get enough lands and dorks to Tireless Tracker, land, crack a clue to draw Worship, then stabilize in time to find the combo. I should clarify that I had a turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary and turn 3 Courser of Kruphix to gain nearly as much life as the Spirits did to me. In the next game, he got mana screwed a bit and when he cast a Leonin Arbiter, I Ghost Quartered his 1 White source and he didn't have plays after this. My life gain from Courser and Knight of the Reliquary was pretty much offsetting his 2 Selfless Spirit attackers, not to mention I had Path to Exile in case the Leonin got annoying. Got there with attacks. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Merfolk. I comboed out on turn 4 instead of 3 with Chord of Calling, just in case his Aether Vial on 1 got Cursecatcher, but he didn't have it anyway. He tried a Harbinger of the Tides for Devoted Druid, but I just untapped by putting a -1/-1 counter on it, then comboed out to win. In the next game, his Vial and bunch of Lords start was too quick. Couldn't even find the 2nd part of the combo. Missed a land drop to potentially Chord. In the next game, I go off on turn 3 and win. He seemed visibly upset. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Mardu Reveler. This guy ended up 1st. He got a bunch of removal and Young Pyromancer to get through, as my mull to 6 and a 1 lander didn't produce a 2nd land until it was too late. Three dead Noble Hierarch. In the next game, he got stuck on 2 land and I curved out pretty well with a Company and then a Tireless Tracker into fetchland. He scooped soon thereafter. For game 3, I had a strong hand - 3 lands, Birds of Paradise, Knight of the Reliquary, Collected Company, Avacyn. He tore it apart with Collective Brutality and Inquisition of Kozilek and I was down to Avacyn vs. Soul's tokens. It seemed like it would have been good for a while, but he drew Faithless Looting when he had 1 card in hand, enabling Bedlam Reveler to be drawn, getting him Terminate for the Avacyn and the beats were on. I drew 2 lands to cap at 7 and scooped.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. I am paired down against a newer kid. I combo out on turn 4, despite a mull and a slow start. But I top decked Vizier and Recruiter to win easily. In the next game, 2 Path to Exile slow him down, then Chord for Kataki wrecks him. I needed to get a Stony Silence in case he drew a land after paying mana for Cranial Plating and made the Blinkmoth attack me for 3 instead of 1. I was at 1 life when I won. I drew Duskwatch Recruiter and it was over. 2-0.
Round 5 vs. Abzan Counters. He comboed out quicker in game 1, but had nothing to do but cast creatures with his infinite mana. I top deck the Vizier; the last piece, and win easily. In the next game, he mulled to 5 and had a horrible hand while I drew the pieces and got there on turn 4. 2-0.
I finish 4-1 for 2nd place on tiebreakers. Drew pretty well all day and felt lucky to draw better in the mirror.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'm pretty excited by this card.
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
5 Forest
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Field of Ruin
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
Non-Creature Spells
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
Creatures
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Devoted Druid
3 Vizier of Remedies
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Walking Ballista
4 Path to Exile
2 Damping Sphere
2 Worship
2 Stony Silence
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Archangel Avacyn
I used Ballestin93's 5-0 list as a template and swapped some cards. I tried the Bant version previously but it felt clunky and when I saw this list, I thought I'd give another try.
1. Round vs Jeskai Control (2-0)
I won G1 value town-ing my opponent and didn't show the combo. I comboed G2 when he tapped out for Geist of Saint Traft.
+ Archangel Avacyn; Shalai, Voice of Plenty; Eidolon of Rhetoric - Birds of Paradise; Vizier of Remedies; Qasali Pridemage
2. Round vs Mono-Black Devotion (2-1)
I comboed in G1 and G3, Opponent did win G2 with 3 Phyrexian Obliterator and me having combo without drawing any Finisher.
+ 2 Worship; 3 Path to Exile - Devoted Druid; 2 Vizier of Remedies; Qasali Pridemage; Rhonas the Indomitable
3. Round vs Jeskai Control (0-2)
A friend of mine, was a real beating. He basically had all the answers.
4. Round vs Mardu Pyromancer (2-0)
Also a friend, I killed him G1 with 3 Knights, had the combo in G2
+ 2 Worship; 3 Path to Exile; - Vizier of Remedies; 2 Devoted Druid; Rhonas the Indomitable; Qasali Pridemage
Drew Round 5 to secure Top8
Top8 vs Mardu Pyromancer (1) (1-2)
I was 8th and had to play against the nr.1 seed, he won all his matches and only lost 1 game. G1 was really close, had the luck to have Rhonas and Knights. G2 & G3 was not even close. I kept solid 7 and 6, and he drew all the discardspells.
The Deck feels really great. Is there any tech against Jeskai Control or Mardu Pyromancer? Those matchups feel really bad in my opinion.
GWUKnightfall
WUSpirits
GWBCounters Company
Legacy:
WBGR Aggro Loam
Yeah, kitchen finks and eternal witness are good in those matchups, along with nice sideboard tech such as orzhov pontiff, reveillark and sigarda, host of herons.
Sin collector is also good in matchups where you fear powerful sweepers (and good against burn as well, of course)
I play a value town list but with a very light black splash for finks+viscera seer main and 2x maelstrom pulse in the sb. Pulse kills Teferi and is dead in very few matchups- it is easily the best card in my sb.
By having voice to force a 2 for 1 out of your opponent, it allows you to get that little bit ahead on cards enough to let knight live for a turn, tutor for wolf run, then have that card take over from there.
For Jeskai I still board a thrun even with 3 voice. Thrun is much stronger with kessig wolf run in your deck as it is even harder to stone wall.
A major point for the Jeskai matchup is to sandbag a gq/FoR in your hand if possible so they can't kill it & you can then deploy it to take down a flipped sfa with only one activation ( ideally casting a company etc that turn to tap them out first so they can't).
I've been playing this deck for over a year now and am first on the leader board for my store, so it's been very good to me.
Round 1 vs. Infect. Game 1 I mull to 5. I should have mulled to 4 possibly, but I figured how I could beat Tron with that. I play Mishra's Bauble to see Blossoming Defense on his library and play a Hall of the Bandit Lord. That's all I play and lose to an Infect dude. In the next game, I find the pieces and go off on turn 3 to win with Pact of Negation backup. He didn't end up having any interaction anyway. In game 3, he Dismembered my Devoted Druid, then killed me on turn 3 with Spell Pierce backup. I would have had game on my turn 3 if he didn't have any of those 3 cards (or 2 before he drew the other one for his turn 3 draw step). 1-2.
Round 2 vs. E Tron. In the first game, I play a bunch of cards to find Vizier and I can't. He makes a huge mistake of only exiling 1 Devoted Druid. Lord knows why. He exiles the top 20 cards of my library and I see that there are 2 more Vizier of Remedies in the bottom 14 cards. I draw one and win. In the next game, he mulls and goes for a Walking Ballista on my Vizier of Remedies that I just cast. I get a million Green mana in response and cast the Walking Ballista that I showed him that I top decked that turn. (I had another one in hand, but I wanted to make it more dramatic. Am I a flaming douchebag for this? You have to also know this particular opponent, who has put many of my friends on tilt before, although we've never had a problem.) 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Control. I go off on my turn 3 and he tries to Countersquall my Summoner's Pact, but I Pact of Negation. Pacts... In the next game, I'm pretty sure I punted. He got stuck on Watery Grave and Field of Ruins, but I felt like he'd draw the 3rd land any time. He didn't. I played a Devoted Druid because I could not find Vizier of Remedies. He Fatal Pushed it and then paid 2 life to Surgical Extraction it. This left me on the beatdown plan. I should have just waited for a Hall. But he also had turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek in game 1, so I was weary of losing the Druid to that too. I go on the beat down plan, but he draws a land in time to double Bolt, double Snapcaster Mage/Bolt, and double K Command. In the final game, he just has too much for me and I cannot find a Vizier of Remedies until a Tasigur and ScM beat my brains in. It put me on a clock since I would have had to pay 3 life for Hall or leave it vulnerable. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. RW Enduring Ideal. This guy has some insane luck against me. Once I realize that my win-con is Walking Ballista, I assume Leyline of SanctitIES will be played before the game starts. It happens pregame. But I get to a board state where I Hall in a Devoted Druid, then Hall my Walking Ballista to swing for lethal damage before he can play a Runed Halo, which I assumed was in his hand. The problem? I forgot that I already used Hall of the Bandit Lord for Devoted Druid, so I can't then use it for the Walking Ballista. We realize it when we're shuffling. I actually wasn't so sure, but it made sense that I ****ed up. We play another one, which ends when I do a Rec Sage on Solemnity, then search up Walking Ballista and another Rec Sage with infinite mana to kill a Runed Halo and end the game. We played another one since the first one felt bad, we were playing for no prizes, and just to see. I keep on 2 land, Gaddock TEeg, and lord knows what else. I beat down, but he gets Ghostly Prison. Then he gets another after I keep beating down. I can't find the Duskwatch Recruiter and he had Solemnity, Runed Halo on Walking Ballista, and Leyline of Sanctity like the other 2 games so I need to find stuff. The funny part is that I did some search cards like Adventurous Impulse that whiffed a bunch of times, while going past cards that I sided this tournament JUST for this player - Back to Nature, Tempest of Light, and Disenchant. Got the Duskwatch Recruiter with Summoner's Pact #2 in my bottom 13 cards and won. 2-0. (2-1? or 3-0?)
I finish 2-2, which is out of the prizes, but nearly beating Grixis Control was cool and knowing that my deck beats the round 1 player's normal deck (Tron) also felt okay until I Mishra's Bauble his Blossoming Defense on top of his library.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Regarding the deck, 4 Tracker in the main looks interesting. I love Tireless Tracker. In fact, I think it's still my favorite Modern legal card right now (or 2nd favorite after Griselbrand), but I'm not so sure that 4 main board is the way to go. I like going to Knight of the Reliquary for at least some of those slots; of course Knight is a 0 of or 4 of, so you'd have to make a cut or 2 elsewhere. Thanks for the report. Is there any way that you could go into detail on the matches? I understand if you can't; not everyone has the time to do it, but I personally LOOOOVE reading them.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Creatures
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Walking Ballista
1 Rhonas, The Indomitable
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
Lands
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
5 Forest
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Gavony Township
3 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Kataki War's Wage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Worship
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
I really like my list other than the sideboard. I was expecting a ton of KCI and lots of Jund and Jeskai, but overall it perforemed very well, here are my matchups.
Round 1: Bant Spirits (2-1)
I combo'ed game 1 faster than he could really get set up, game 2 he beat me down after exiling my T2 druid with path, and G3 I beat him with the combo.
1-0 Overall
Round 2: Dredge (0-2)
This was the list that ended up getting 24th. G1 I was on the draw and had a T3 combo hand, but he opened up with a strong faithless looting getting conflagrate into the graveyard to kill my T2 Druid and it was downhill from there. G2 I also had a T3 Combo in hand, but he had a lightning axe for the druid, later this game he ended up killing two of my creatures with darkblasts after I made them indestructible with selfless spirit. It felt like a pretty unwinnable matchup
1-1 Overall
Round 3: Grixis Death's Shadow (0-2)
G1 I Kept a pretty Sketchy hand that had a T2 Druid in hopes of an early combo, but his disruption and removal tore it apart pretty easily, I don't remeber much about this game. G2 We both Mulled to 6, I kept a hand with Collected Company,two landsand some other stuff, but he opened with T1 Inquisition, T2 Thoughtseize, T3 Thoughtseize, T4 Snap Thoughtseize, and I never drew more than two lands and couldn't cast anything.
1-2 Overall
At this point I was a bit discouraged, this is my first big event and I've been playing this deck for ~2 years and just got beat pretty bad by 2 bad matchups and my chances of making day 2 are very slim, I have to win the next 6.
Round 4: Humans (2-1)
I don't remember much about this match, I think I started on the play G1 and G3 and combo'ed T3 both games, and he won G2 with a reflector mage bouncing Druid.
2-2 overall
Round 5: Free Win Red (2-1)
This match was hilarious, G1 She's on the play and has T1 Mountain, Spirit Guide, Ritual, Blood Moon. I run a lot of basics so I figured I'd be fine, but I drew none and a Spirit guide attacking finished me off, Games 2 and 3 I won after fighting through removal, chalace, blood moon, and bridge were all pretty dead cards which helped me a lot and knight dodged Anger of the Gods pretty well.
3-2 Overall
Round 6: Mono G Tron (2-1)
G1 I go to combo and he has spatial contortion followed by Ugin the next turn. Games 2 and 3 I combo him out after keeping him off tron with Ghost Quarter.
4-2 Overall
Round 7: Affinity (2-1)
Game 1 I'm on the play and have a T3 combo. Game 2 he has whipflair for the T2 druid and finishes up after that. Game 3 I have a hand with two druids, one gets galvanic blasted and the other sticks and wins me the game off the combo.
5-2 Overall
Round 8: Humans (2-1)
This was Dylan Hand on humans, he's got multiple top 8's with the deck so at this point I figured I'd pick up my 3rd loss and be out of top 8. He destroyed me G1 I kept a not great hand and was punished for it. G2 I was on the play and had a T3 combo. G3 We go a while and he has multiple Thalia's Lieutenants and a Meddling mage on Collected Company, but I have a druid, a Rhonas, a duskwatch, and a bunch of mana dorks on my side. At one point he makes a big swing to put me to 5 and after a while I decided to take it since he has 1 card in hand and I don't think I can get punished, so I go to 5 and activate duskwatch on his end step finding nothing, I draw a land for turn and activate again, this time finding vizier with just enough mana to cast it and win.
6-2 Overall
Round 9: Humans (2-1)
At this point I was pretty nervous because I was so close to making day 2 after a pretty bad start. I win the dice roll and combo turn 3 or 4 after she plays mantis rider and compies it with image. Game 2 she has Hierarch into reflector mage which is super bad for me, she ends up steamrolling me. Game 3 I mull and play druid on T2 with the vizier and chord in hand, she thinks for a while and plays champion of the parish and mantis rider. I untap and go to combo and she gut shots vizier, but I just combo in response.
7-2 Overall
Day 2
Round 10: Humans (1-2)
I combo game 1, but game 2 he has multiple reflector mages and wins from there. Game 3 I mull to 5 with a druid and 1 land, I scry a bird to the bottom because I think my best shot is hitting land and trying to drop druid before relector mage or meddling mage, but I don't hit the land until t3 and at that point he has meddling mage naming devoted druid and he goes on to win it.
7-3 Overall
Round 11: Eldrazi Tron (2-1)
Game 1 combo, Game 2 lost I don't remember how. Game 3 He sides in a ton, eventually playing Grafdiggers Cage, Sourcerous Spyglass naming Druid, and a chalice on 2. I landed a Knight and used Ghost quarter to keep him off tron and eventually that and a tireless tracker finished him off.
8-3 Overall
Round 12: Blue Moon (1-2)
This was Ross Meriam's deck, I had just been watching him play in the feature match area so I knew he was on U/R with bolts and spell snares, which isn't great for me. But knowing this I kept a hand G1 with Avacyn's Pilgrim, 2 fetches, and a Knight I figured he couldn't beat T2 4/4 Knight on the play, and he couldn't. He won game 2 pretty convincingly off Cryptic commands and Thing in the Ice. Game three we traded creatures ad removal and at one point he let a Collected Company Resolve so I guessed that was my greenlight to go aggressive and try to win before he had answers, but the turn I swung for lethal he used cryptic to tap my team and he then chained cryptics and snapcasters until he won off a thing in the ice.
8-4 Overall
Round 13: Burn (2-0)
Both games I had my Courser of Krufix in hand and neither were particularly close, game 2 I had worship and Rhonas which he couldn't beat.
9-4 Overall
Round 14: Bant Knightfall (2-0)
I beat this guy the round right after he was on camera, He led G1 with 2 reflector mages but not much else and I combo him. G2 I don't really remeber, but I think I combo'ed him when he had a Knight out and was looking for a retreat to coralhelm.
10-4 Overall
Round 15 U/W Control (0-2)
If I win this match I would top 32, which was exciting. G1 He got stuck on lands, but I couldn't capitalize despite drawing 4 cards off of tireless tracker clues, he eventually landed teferi and won from there. Game 2 I had a great start that included T3 4/4 Knight, Rhonas, and flipped Duskwatch recruiter putting him very low and before he had mana for Supreme verdict. The next turn he untapped and blind flipped Terminus, which I think is about the only card that would've kept him in that game. As I put my cards on the bottom a judge who was casually watching out match asked to see my Duskwatch, he stepped away from the table and came back saying he could see it through my sleeve and that it would be a game loss for me, meaning the end of the tournament. My opponent appealed to the head judge, but the head judge stuck with the ruling. I was playing with double sleeved Sky Blue Dragonshield Mattes and the only way the Flip side was visible was if it was held up to the light. But rules are rules and thats how my tournament ended dropping me down to 42nd place.
I'm very happy with how I did, the deck played great. I mulliganed a lot and it felt great, a lot of decks can't beat T2 druid.
If anyone has questions feel free to ask, sorry this was so long I've never done one of these before.
The Courser and Tracker both work very well with the Knights, and additionally courser blocks very well against burn and other aggro decks and doesn't die to bolt or helix. It definitely could be another creature, but I liked it most times I got it, but wouldn't want to play more than one. Tracker on the other hand is pretty amazing in that you can drop it turn four against a grindy deck and play a fetch and get two clues and even if it does you get a lot of value. Also
I've had a lot of times where I get the mana combo, but don't have a payoff so I can play tracker make a clue and dig for the combo. I've won a couple times like that. I almost never chord for them because chording for the combo or knight is almost always better.
I've seen some people play shalai main, but I'm not a huge fan because it doesn't protect from board wipes, it acts as a mana sink, but seems a bit more awkward. I refer Rhonas because it's harder to for decks to remove and if you have lots of mana pumping a knight or and giving trample can end the game. Also if you get the mana combo then CoCo you can hit rhonas as a way to win the game, whereas you can't with shalai.
Two Duskwatch Recruiters has always seemed fine, I've never really considered going up to 4, but it's a pretty good card that helps dig for vizier. I rarely have the mana combo without a way to combo since I have 2 Recruiter, 1 Ballista, 1 Rhonas, 4 Chord, and 4 Company that can usually hit it.
6 Dorks and 23 lands has also been something I've played forever and never had a problem with, I don't have Noble Heriarch so I don't wanna go up to 3 Avacyn's Pilgrim, I can usually hit two lands and a druid on T2 on either my 7,6, or 5 card hand, so it works out pretty well usually.
1 Razorverge Thicket used to be two, but got swapped for a canopy, it usually enters untapped and provides green for druid and white for vizier on the first 3 turns which is pretty good, it could probably be a forest though. Notably it plays poorly with Knight because it can't be sacrificed. I don't like field of ruin because i like being able to hit a tron land t2 or 3 without taking my entire turn, Maybe I should run 1 field of ruin, but ghost quarter seems fine. I think manlands are too slow, especially when you're trying to combo on turn 3 most games I don't think you can really afford a hand with a tapped land, It would work nicely with knight though, but that's your backup plan.
Voice is good at providing an early clock and taking up multiple removal spells, Thrun is likely better, I'm not too high on voice right now and actually took them out after this tournamnt. In a similar vein, the idea behind avacyn was that it saves your board from a wipe and can also sweep the boards of humans/Elves/The mirror while leaving you with knights or courser or trackers that are big enough. However, it's expensive and never really worked out like that, I also took this out after this tournament, but would be willing to give it a second chance.
I do mulligan A LOT, I feel like thats a huge key to this deck, a lot of decks can't beat a T3 Combo and even a lot of 5 card hands can get you there. Hands that do nothing until turn 3 are always a mull, most decks don't have a lot of removal and if you can pick up a lot of free wins, and even if you don't get to combo on turn 3 (maybe because they had removal for druid) as long as you aren't playing against a removal heavy midrange or control deck your chances of winning after a mull to 6 or 5 are often still pretty good because collected company or knight can dig you out of holes, also end of turn chord for 2 getting druid can often lead to a topdecked combo, you've just got to play to your outs.
I know it's not my report or my deck, but I'll try to answer as well.
It comes down to Kitchen Finks vs. Knight of the Reliquary. Finks is better in some situations, but Knight is usually better once it's not summoning sick, whether it's thinning the deck, finding lands that destroy lands, or getting draws with Horizon Canopy.
The Tracker and Courser are just random value creatures to hit off CoCo. Going for the combo is number 1, but there needs to be a certain creature density to make CoCo hit and these were the best choices. I actually also have never wanted to Chord for Tracker and the 1 time I did it, I ended up regretting it, lol.
I feel that 2 Duskwatch Recruiters are acceptable. I personally play 4 in my GW version though.
I think that 22-23 land and 7 mana dorks are the right answer. I personally enjoy running 22 lands and I've always felt that if I'm trying to hit a potential 3 drop, I need to run 8 mana dorks, so that's what I've always run. Now that I have Devoted Druid in the deck, I run 5 mana dorks (4 Noble Hierarch and 1 Birds of Paradise).
Rhonas can be hit off Company. That's pretty much it. In some corner cases in long drawn out games, it can turn extra lands and a mana dork into a serious threat. I personally am a bit unsure about whether to leave it in vs. BGx decks or Mardu Pyromancer decks. I have yet to try Shalai in this deck or actually draw Shalai in the Humans deck that I sided it in the SB for. 1 Worship is probably just a case of not having enough open spots in the side. I feel that 2 is the optimal number, as it is a card that you just kind of want to get in some cases and have no chance of losing.
Voice of Resurgence is good vs. Control, Midrange, and even solid vs. Burn, but there often are not enough spots for it. It can swing these matches a couple of points, but these are going to usually be tough anyway, so I'm not sure how you want to go about that.
Avacyn is mostly for board wipes or just to catch your opponent off-guard. Nobody expects Company to flash out an Avacyn and that in itself can win games. Tap out for Supreme Verdict, sure, flash in Avacyn, swing for lethal next turn?
Razorverge Thicket is bad. Not running enough Horizon Canopy is a budget choice, but I can understand. I have had Canopies since the beginning of Modern and even wanted to buy the IMA ones as well, but they skyrocketed from $30 to around $45 right now. The ship has sailed.
I do believe that there are a lot of matchups in which you do have to aggressively mulligan. The mirror is a good example. The only way you are winning in the mirror, outside of some odd Linvala being landed safely, is to combo first. This means not just infinite mana, but the actual win-con. I personally hadn't played the mirror until 3 weeks ago. Now I have played it 3 times, going 2-1, and have learned to loathe it. Affinity is another example. If you think you're beating Affinity with non Rhonas combat damage, you're kidding yourself.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)This is the list I wanted to try and I honestly haven't worked out all the kinks yet. For example, in the first tournament with Avacyn, I didn't draw it, so I literally felt like it was a wasted spot. But I did get it in the next tournament and although it didn't win the game (opponent drew Terminate on an empty hand with Mardu Pyromancer), it seemed really strong. It singlehandedly shut him down for a couple of turns until he drew Terminate. I still need to play test it. I think the good part about the card is that nobody expects it. They think, "oh, here comes Collected Company, what's the worst that could happen?" Nope, here comes Avacyn (or Company if you have that and that is better).
https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/gwx-vizier-decklist-by-kendall-burdette-741819
If I had more of a chance to try the list (I've played it in 5 small tournaments), then I could give better input. Right now, it's mostly theory and some from running Bant Knightfall and Abzan Counters Company and before Vizier, Abzan Company. Most of what I'm saying is on theory or a very limited number of matches.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Cataclysmic Gearhulk have anyone tried this as a mass removal? Do we have enough time to clear humans board with it?
Kambal, Consul of Allocation I think this card kills storm and KCI (we alread have Eidolon of Rhetoric). Which one is better as SB?
Linvala, Keeper of Silence used to love her, but the applications now is too narrow, probably only mirror
Tidehollow Sculler to take out removals and to combo easier, but seems bad and I dont imagine myself chording for it. Maybe worth as a 4of MB depending on the meta
Tireless Tracker good card in general, but is this SB material? We can have Voice of Resurgence as a better control SB option
I have no experience with Cataclysmic Gearhulk. It may be worth trying in the future.
I haven't liked Kambal much in the Abzan Counters SB much in the past. Maybe he's better now? But like yriel said, he's not Bolt-Proof. I feel safer with Eidolon of Rhetoric, while feeling vulnerable with Kambal.
Linvala is really good if you expect to see the Company type decks. It can often be too slow against Affinity, although I still side it in. Then again, I haven't had much experience with her since I always try to dodge mirrors and it has worked for the most part until just recently.
I personally liked Tidehollow Sculler. I felt that in some matchups, it DESTROYED my opponents, while others it was actively BAD. I still have my memories of Chording for one in response to a UR Breach opponent's Through the Breach, nabbing Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn or destroying our LGS best player on Ad Nauseam, so there are good memories. If I did Abzan Counters again, I would start with 4 of these mainboard mostly because of my familiarity with them in that list. (I know how to play that list.)
Tireless Tracker is easily one of my favorite creatures in Modern. I often overuse them as well, but I would never run more than 3 in the 75 of Company. It just depends on what "grindy" tool you want. I like them in grindy matches like Jund or the like, but I LOOOOOVE them against Eldrazi. They easily get as big or even bigger than Eldrazi, while netting card advantage for later. I guess if you don't see these types of decks often, it loses much of its power. Ideally you shouldn't see these matchups that often since BGx and Eldrazi are doing pretty badly right now (outside of the occasional GR Eldrazi). I mean your first goal is to Combo vs. Eldrazi, but they have some Lightning Bolts, Dismembers, and even an Engineered Explosives or 2 to slow you down. Hopefully that slows them down enough for a Tireless Tracker to then take over the game. Plus, it cost more than they can EE Sunburst for.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)-
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StaffYou have a 25% chance to hit a certain 4-of in your top 4 cards, but the most important thing is that when playing 30-21 creatures as the deck normally does there is a 95% chance to hit any creature. This percentage doesn't even drop that much considering your opening hand and subsequent draws, since having 20 possible hits is still over an 80% chance, and really above a 70% chance for even 15 creatures. Seeing as the only cards with more than two power in a stock Abzan list are the Kitchen Finks, that's pretty good odds right there...
To even run the point home, the list of hits and misses include:
MISSES:
I'm thinking about the times you miss hitting a Druid or Vizier off of a Company, but do hit a Buglar letting you search the top 10 instead. If you want the most consistency then you can drop Finks and go the KotR route which I have tried, and seen played before. It slots easily into Bant since it hits both Spell Queller and Reflector Mage. Where I really like it is in the wacky the Aether Vial version of the deck since the creature goes to your hand, Vial lets you immediately cast it. All of the combo and hate cards are at 2cmc, with the card advantage (Ewit and Burglar) at 3cmc. It's a bit crazy, but I've made it work in the past and got some 4-0's.
Is anyone getting ready to play Militia Bugler come Friday? I will be but more people getting opinions on it is nice.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)