MTG Salvation

Had a rough one. 4 round MNM, 12 people.

Round 1 vs. Mono Blue Tron. I mull some 0 land hands to 5. I get stuck on 3 mana for the longest time and he has a recurring Walking Ballista and a Platinum Angel by this point. In the next game, I keep on double Tidehollow Sculler and it wrecks his hand. I draw another and get to run it out to take the Thirst for Knowledge that he got back by Walking Ballista on my dude. In the last game after a mulligan by me, I can't find the Vizier of Remedies and he does a Spatial Contortion on the Devoted Druid into me not finding another, then he has Mindslaver. Funny. He kept it in against me and got Academy Ruins and Mindslaver. I guess my deck is (was) too slow in this match. He wrecked me because after I kept on 3 land and couldn't find lands, he drew a land taking my turn and wrecked me with it. 1-2.

Round 2 vs. Cruel Control. In the first game, I literally didn't know what he was. He just played a bunch of Snapcaster Mage, Fatal Pushes and a Bolt late game. I get there with double Kitchen Finks. I think he didn't know the interaction between them and Gavony Township and it cost him because he was top decking at this point. In the next game, he gets Azcanta and Damnation and Anger of the Gods, ScM Anger of the Gods. He draws Batterskull when he's about to die. Azcanta literally found a 4 mana or less answer 4 turns in a row while he was top decking. He got off Cruel Ultimatum and killed my Scavenging Ooze that I kept doing E Witness for. I do a late game Collected Company to try to not lose. I find 4 lands, Walking Ballista, and Liliana, the Last Hope, so NOTHING. We go deep and I know the time probably is over. I realize that they will probably call time as he wins and it happens. So, it's 1-1, but he's leaving, so he scoops to me. Nice guy. He enjoyed the round! 2-1.

Round 3 vs. Bogles. I mulligan 2 hands, needing a land on top to function. Both hands had a land on top and 1 would have been a combo for game. Instead I mull to 5, don't find Vizier, and lose to a huge Bogle. In the next game, he gets a big Bogle after doing Journey to Nowhere on my Devoted Druid, to which I responded by sacking it to the graveyard. I should have read the card, as it would have had to target his Bogle if I did it with the card on the stack. I thought it was the newer age cards that let you have a "may" clause. I do Maelstrom Pulse on an Aura and the Daybreak Coronet falls off. He goes all in with Grafdigger's Cage and some other card, can't remember. I get Vizier of Remedies and I have Duskwatch Recruiter to combo off. In the next game, he does Daybreak Coronet again, but I Maelstrom Pulse to make it fall off. I have infinite mana, but only Gavony Township to do with it. I swing away with double Devoted Druid and double Vizier of Remedies. I get him near lethal, but he top decks Daybreak Coronet to go to 12 while I fall to 5. I draw, don't find anything, sacrifice Horizon Canopy, draw Collected Company. I find...Eternal Witness and Scavenging Ooze. I get Maelstrom Pulse back and he scoops to that since I can Pulse the Spider Umbras and the Coronet falls off, so I have lethal. I always lose to Company when I run Bogles, so I was happy that it didn't go the other way. 2-1.

Round 4 vs. Hollow One. I mull and he has pretty solid hands. I can't find Vizier in game 1 and he Bolts my Devoted Druid in game 2 after land BoP. I draw another land on the turn before lethal and am stuck with Vizier of Remedies, Scavenging Ooze, Kalitas, Sin Collector, Collected Company, the last 2 Chord that I kept in. I kept on 1 land and he bolted the Devoted Druid. I guess if he bolted the BoP, I would have played 0 cards that game. 0-2, but he scoops to me since he was 1-2 and can't get prizes. 2-0.

I finish 3-1 or technically 1-2-1. Ugh. Every time I run this deck, I play vs. Jeskai or Grixis, but when I play Bogles, nobody is on those decks. Odd. The meta keeps changing because people rotate a lot here, so I can never guess. I knew my round 1 opponent was on Mono Blue Tron and knew that Bogles beat it. I figured Abzan Counters Company does too.

Quote from Atem18 »

@FoodChainGoblins, which version are you playing ?

It's possibly outdated, but I'm scared to try a list without 4 Tidehollow Sculler. It's really the only disruption we have, so Combo is a race outside of that. I'm running Jarvis Yu's version with a few changes that I personally made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVSi3V0GGCA

Interesting string of luck I've had! 14 person WNM.

Round 1 vs. BYE. Lucky. 2-0.

Round 2 vs. Bogles. I combo him in both games. I mull a hand that does nothing to beat Bogles. I keep on 6. He has Path to Exile in game 1, but I have another Druid. I also play a Tidehollow Sculler to slow him down. Once again, I mull to a solid 6 and he has Teeg. I keep a 1 land hand in the next game and draw a land on turn 3, which allows me to combo out because of a fairly slow hand by him. 2-0.

Round 3 vs. Affinity. This is the guy I drove with. He gets a strong clock, but keeping the hand with Devoted Druid was super strong. I get low enough where if his last card is Galvanic Blast, I lose anyway because I can't combo, so I don't block. It isn't G Blast and I combo off the next turn. The next game is similar, but he has Blood Moon with his last card. Unfortunately for him, I have Vizier of Remedies and Duskwatch Recruiter, luckily having Noble Hierarch to cast the Vizzy. Also had double CoCo in hand; stacked hand! 2-0.

Round 4 vs. Jeskai. I really wanted to play for the 4-0 since I haven't gotten it yet, but I refuse to play against Jeskai or Grixis with this deck if I can avoid it. 0-0-3.

I finish 3-0-1, or 2-0 in matches. Pretty lucky to only win 2 matches, but have a solid record. I may be switching to GW Company or Hollow One soon. Some friends really think my skills could be used on "better" decks.

by skills are you referring to lucky draws? if so yes hollow one is the deck for you.

Quote from KTROJAN »

by skills are you referring to lucky draws? if so yes hollow one is the deck for you.

Yes, exactly. There was a time just 1-2 years ago where I did very well with nearly anything I brought to a tournament. But nowadays, I sometimes do poorly even with a deck that I think is well positioned or a solid deck. So, I need to get back to winning more often.

The last 6 Modern tournaments that I've attended, I've top 8ed NONE of them. It has really created some doubt in me. Maybe I have just drawn well for the past 10 years? Now it stopped. Maybe I am not choosing the right deck? But I am choosing a deck that's good vs. Humans and Hollow One. There's just a lot of doubt because months before this bad streak, I had a horrible streak at FNM. Now it's carried over to Comp REL. I wanted to improve, not get worse.

My testing with Hollow One has been odd. There are certainly good hands that are nearly unbeatable, but then the deck takes a big steaming pile of poo on itself sometimes as well. I really don't know if it's the deck for me, but I am willing to possibly try tomorrow at FNM. Hopefully I will have a revelation.

Quote from foodchaingoblins »

*Just a side question, do you call the deck "Abzan Counters Company?" Because I shorten it to Abzan Counters, but I think some people may not understand it. This is mostly because the deck is not Tier 1. I think I may use your nomenclature from now on because if I say Abzan Counters, someone may think I'm playing Hardened Scales or something. Lol.

Personally I still call it Melira, but people around here also call Commander 'Elder' (as in Elder Dragon Highlander)

I think everyone gets frustrated with CoCo if they play the card long enough. Those game (or match) losing whiffs get seared into your memory.

Uncage the Menagerie looks ok (although slow) but Growing Rites doesn't dig especially well for the cost and isn't great when you're behind, so I'm less impressed by that.

If I were going to cut CoCo I would probably abandon the value plan and start by experimenting with a Turbo Vizier list, like the one recently demo'd here.

This is the list that I'm going to try soon.

https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/counters-company-decklist-by-kendall-burdette-741819

Looks like a mixture of all-in with Value Town. Gonna see how it goes.

*I've had my frustrations before with Collected Company, but I think the card is still very good. I played Birthing Pod only a little bit. I was too busy playing Combo decks at that time and Pod wasn't near the top of my list in decks to play, especially since the few times I ran it, I did very subpar. (a 2-4 PTQ and a 2-4 FNM stick out in my mind) But I've done much better with Collected Company. I'm just going to leave it at this - THIS was my best Collected Company ever. I was playing vs. UR Twin and we both were in the late game with a bunch of lands each and no hand. I had Gavony Township out. We were both in top deck mode. I drew and cast a Collected Company, hitting 5 land and another Collected Company. So, I got nothing. I was a bit sad. He drew a land for the turn and passed. My next 3 cards were all GAS, including 2 Kitchen Finks to go with the Gavony Township and I got there because the CoCo literally got me past 5 lands that would have made me lose since my opponent then drew some burn, which did nothing to the Finks with Township out.

I've had CoCos that hit Izzet Staticaster when Lingering Souls tokens were about to kill me. I've hit Orzhov Pontiff in situations where I could abuse him. I've hit combo pieces many, many times. Still, that CoCo that hit nothing was the best one I ever did.

Have you guys tried Shalai, Voice of Plenty? I think Im going to give it a shot, it can act as a pseudo Skite.

I kind of disagree. It’s a formidable body that can act as a win condition with the combination and can protect the combo.

I was a fan of Rhonas in this spot but I think Shalai is better.

I take back everything I said before, this deck is amazing again. I tweaked it, removing gavony township and adding ghost quarter. I swapped out my flex spot tidehollow scullers and put in 1x azusa, 1x ramunap excavator and 1x selfless spirit. I'm running 1x qasali pridemage maindeck, and 2x tireless trackers.

I also went in on 2x liliana, the last hope and 2x worship in the sideboard, alongside the usual toolbox suspects.

Been doing really well. Better against Tron, and still great against jund with the long grindy coco plan. Beat breach titan twice over the weekend as well which felt massive.

Were back =)

Quote from purklefluff »

I take back everything I said before, this deck is amazing again. I tweaked it, removing gavony township and adding ghost quarter. I swapped out my flex spot tidehollow scullers and put in 1x azusa, 1x ramunap excavator and 1x selfless spirit. I'm running 1x qasali pridemage maindeck, and 2x tireless trackers.

I also went in on 2x liliana, the last hope and 2x worship in the sideboard, alongside the usual toolbox suspects.

Been doing really well. Better against Tron, and still great against jund with the long grindy coco plan. Beat breach titan twice over the weekend as well which felt massive.

Were back =)

Nice! I'm glad we're back. Here's what I was going to run pretty soon; bought the few cards I needed to complete it. I don't know if I posted this already?

https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/counters-company-decklist-by-kendall-burdette-741819

that list looks pretty good!

here's mine right now, subject to the usual whimsy and spur of the moment nonsense:



i'm not sure about tireless tracker. it seems to be a removal magnet most of the time and i don't think i've ever got the chance to make one 'big' yet. before tracker, I was running 2 or 3 voice of resurgence (and before that, 3x tidehollow sculler) and never had any complaints with either. I felt though, after dropping gavony township and most likely losing a certain % of midrange grinding ability, I probably needed more card draw in the deck and this felt like a reasonable non-painful way to achieve this. So far i'm about 50% on this choice and will definitely keep the tracker in there to see how it plays out over a larger sample of games.

I realise there's some sideboard options that i'm missing such as decay or path, but historically i've valued having a chord-able response in many of the trickier matchups. Worship has been stupid good, and shalai is an experiment but so far has saved me in quite a few games (e.g. against valakut, triggers on the stack, chord for shalai, effectively win the game).

liliana, the last hope has continually gone up in my estimation and quickly went from a 1-of to a 2-of and at this point she feels like a hard lock for the SB, especially powering her out on turn 2 with a dork. she wrecks so many decks it's great, and is a super pwoerful tool in removal heavy grindy matchups as well.

everything else in the SB seems fairly well-tested by others in terms of viability, although i'll concede the point that this particular combination of choices probably isn't too conventional. i'm going pretty hard in on chording up toolbox cards (but i'm happy to go in that direction).

engineered explosives has slipped in and out of my sideboard for some time now, but right now it feels like a lock as well. Bogles and many other strategies fold hard to this card, and it's a crucial piece of hate to have access to. seems like an easy include over some more specific options.


finally, some of you who are more nuanced in their understanding of the deck may notice that 4x kitchen finks seems a bit weird in this build due to lack of synergy from gavony township. That's a real loss (it was a hard choice to cut township, and not suitable in every meta) but I felt like the prevalence of burn, zoo, midrange decks and removal-heavy decks warrants keeping our culinary friend around in the full playset. So far i haven't been disappointed, and there's always the viscera seer combo to gain infinite life as a sideline option (often comes up) which is a core angle that you can take. certainly, the ability to segue a fairly medium kitchen finks opening hand into infinite life with very few pieces is a big bonus for running the otherwise innocuous creature. the lifegain has been immense against humans as well, for what it's worth.

one final thing - i've played a whole bunch of games, but somehow inexplicably I haven't actually drawn either azusa or ramunap excavator during a game. not once. I haven't needed to chord for them either, but the important caveat there is that I haven't played a game against Tron yet, so it hasn't really come up. What's important I suppose is that despite their inclusion in the deck, I don't seem to have suffered against the other non-tron matchups. Ghost quarter has been mediocre for obvious reasons, as i've mainly been playing against combo or aggro where it's not so important. I'm fine with it being in there as a grindier option against midrange, control and big mana decks.

I'm glad to see you on the deck again! You and Pokken were 2 of the Abzan Company players here that I looked up too since you guys knew what you were talking about.

Tireless Tracker is a pet card of mine, so I will probably jam it into whatever I can. I run 1 in the SB of Amulet and want to up that to 2. I run 2 in Titanshift and wouldn't mind going 3, but I realize it's overkill in that deck. Tireless Tracker is a removal magnet, so hopefully Knight will survive or maybe the Tracker will instead. I like Tracker because it's one of the few creatures (especially before Knight came in) that can go toe to toe with Eldrazi creatures pretty quickly. I just love this card and hope the meta won't get too quick for him!

I like the Shalai tech. I already bought my foil copy (as this deck has been all 75 foiled), so I'm ready to go when needed. I'm trying out Archangel Avacyn for right now though.

Liliana of the Last Hope seems SOOOO good in this deck, but I have never been able to generate much value with her. In theory, I would draw it against decks with X/1s, but I rarely draw it in the matchups where I need it most. I know that Liliana of the Last Hope into Eternal Witness to bring it back is pretty good though. Hope to do that one day!

I don't think you need Engineered Explosives for Bogles. Firstly, it's an amazing matchup anyway. As a Company player, I've never lost to Bogles. As a Bogles player, I've never beaten Company. I wouldn't put EE in when they are siding in Gaddock Teeg anyway. That's just more things that lose to Teeg. I played a game where I kept 1 Company, he played Teeg, I scryed a bunch, and still found 3 Company and 2 Chord (sided 1 out) to die before I could do anything. Luckily for me, I won game 3.

I really want to try Ramunap Excavator and/or Azusa. I bought Excavators a long time ago and have never used them. I would love to get that Engine aboard, but I feel that the cards are not super good on their own, so I haven't tried them yet. Let me know how it goes. As a primarily Combo player, I would love to see the synergies between the cards and Ghost Quarter especially.

cool, it's good to be back (although honestly I was never gone, I just engaged a bit less with online discussion).

worth bearing in mind though that I fully recognise that my current list is a work in progress and not at all 'optimal'. There's a few odd choices and certain ways in which the synergy of my previous lists have been diminished.

that said, I felt like the deck needed a slight push in a new direction, and this is how i'm choosing to test that direction initially. What i'll probably end up doing is going down or up on a couple of cards and ultimately embrace the ghost quarter plan or drop it entirely. that remains to be seen =).

all the best. I'll keep feeding back on my progress. I've put more time into this deck than any other over the last 18 months or so, so at this point quite a few of my choices or decisions are made intuitively. In order to make sure i'm not messing up, i'll be tracking how good certain cards are, how they balance with the rest of the deck, and generally how the deck works overall in terms of synergy and balance. right now, my above list is a bit imbalanced and there's some tension in there which i'm hoping to resolve with tweaks.

on engineered explosives - it's not necessary, but it's better at this moment and this meta than it has been in the last year or two. there are a lot of matchups where it shines. Bogles does indeed play gaddock teeg, that's true. doesn't make EE bad though. I ran EE back in the kiki-chord era of modern and slowly went away from it (apart from a dalliance with EE around the height of Death's Shadow), but now i'm running it again and liking it a lot.

Hey guys, just curious how you sideboard against the field with the deck?

Here is the list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1090357#paper

I have a general idea of what to bring in for each matchup, but I’m having a hard time decided what to cut.

Is it ever correct to shave a vizier?

The main cards I look to cut is pridemage and scooze in matches where they aren’t great, and I’ll sometimes trim witnesses and some chords.

Any help is appreciated.

Quote from Jeffisanhero »

Hey guys, just curious how you sideboard against the field with the deck?

Here is the list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1090357#paper

I have a general idea of what to bring in for each matchup, but I’m having a hard time decided what to cut.

Is it ever correct to shave a vizier?

The main cards I look to cut is pridemage and scooze in matches where they aren’t great, and I’ll sometimes trim witnesses and some chords.

Any help is appreciated.

Yeah it's often trickier to take cards out than identify what needs to come in.

In answer; yes. I often trim a vizier or two against jund-style midrange decks, along with one or even two chord of calling. This is because their higher removal count somewhat blanks the normal combo route, and instead you have to rely on grinding them out of resources by utilising company, witness and finks while they get stuck with one-for-one answers. Generally you win those games. Vizier still has its uses and its worth keeping some number remaining in order to make your finks immortal and potentially backdoor a combo in their endstep if they get aggressive.

I rarely if ever side out eternal witness. In the past is has been a pseudo snapcaster mage and a useful way to rebuy a hate-card that may have been dealt with. It's also one of the more reliable ways to chain through your deck if you get a company or chord and have some excess mana. It also gets back ghost quarter which while niche is not insignificant. I can however see an argument for taking it out against storm or cheerios as it would be too slow as an engine to have much impact in those matchups.

Hope that helps.

I agree with Purkle. In those kind of grindy matchups like Mardu Reveler for example, we're probably not comboing off. So we can shave some pieces. But I side a bit differently with E Witness. In a matchup that is quick, I often don't have time for E Witness, so if there's not some hate card that I can potentially get back, I cut it. I kept it in vs. Merfolk tonight because it buys back Path to Exile, which is good on Lords.

I played in a 24 person FNM. Drove with 3 friends today!

Round 1 vs. Hollow One. Turn 1 Flameblade Adept. Turn 2, Faithless Looting, Faithless Looting, cycle Street Wraith, play Hollow One, turn 3 Burning Inquiry, discarding my 2nd Devoted Druid, and then Lightning Bolt on my turn 2 Devoted Druid. Played a 2nd Hollow One after the Inquiry. I draw into 3 lands off Inquiry and scoop after not finding anything good. In the next game, it is similar, but I do a Collected Company to find only a Devoted Druid and a BoP. I double block an Adept to go to 6 life after he Bolts the Devoted Druid right away. I made a poor block and he panicked and threw the Bolt at the Devoted Druid right away since I had the pieces, but he was summoning sick. Didn't matter. His last 2 cards in hand were a pair of Lightning Bolts. Triple Bolt gets it done!!! 0-2.

Round 2 vs. Merfolk. He gets me low on life, but didn't have unblockable early enough and I combo out. I keep an odd hand with 2 Path to Exile and E Witness. I do them on 2 Lords, then draw another and hit another Lord. On an end step, I go for the combo as he put another Lord to swing me low (Spreading Seas in play). I go for the win next turn, playing around Unified Will and Spell Pierce by casting 2 mana dudes and doing Chord of Calling with all my dudes, leaving 1 mana up and an untap from a Devoted Druid. He plays...wait for it...Hibernation. I examine my deck looking for something to Chord for 2 and realize the gig is up. In the last game, he plays a few dudes, I block for a while, but I eventually get the Combo on an end step Chord into Chord on my turn. Whew! Nearly out of prize early on. 2-1.

Round 3 vs. Affinity. My friend that came at the last moment. He had beaten me 6 of the past 7 times we've played. He just beat my 3rd friend on Grishoalbrand. In the first game, he spits it out. I go for the combo and have 1 turn to draw it after end step Collected Company. I don't find it and lose. In the next game, I do Devoted Druid and he plays turn 2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, but I have it all to beat him next turn. In the final game, I make a grave mistake of attacking Kataki into Ravager. He gets out Ghirapur Aether Grid, but it's slow to work. I have 2 Companies and end up getting there with the combo soon thereafter. I go for it with 1 card in hand for him. It's Steel Overseer, which I assumed it was Stubborn Denial since he got me on that one last time. Got there. 2-0.

Round 4 vs. UW Turns. My other friend that had just come back to California (from school in Illinois) a week ago. I feel badly because this is a well known rough matchup for Turns. There was not much to say, as I comboed out pretty quickly. In the 2nd, I did Chord of Calling to try to win into his Remand and then Exhaustion for him. But he got mana flooded and I went off again. 2-0.

I finish 3-1, basically at the expense of 2 of the guys in my car. My other friend had to play vs. the Affinity guy in round 2 and lost, so he went 2-2 otnight. The deck is really strong. Running GW Company now. Posted this before, but in case you didn't see it.

https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/counters-company-decklist-by-kendall-burdette-741819

Where do you guys stand on the Shalai vs Rhonas issue?

One protects the combo and is better on its own.

The other is a better secondary win condition and can be hit off of CoCo.

Quote from Jeffisanhero »

Where do you guys stand on the Shalai vs Rhonas issue?

One protects the combo and is better on its own.

The other is a better secondary win condition and can be hit off of CoCo.

I'm sold on shalai somewhere in the 75 as a chordable way to "counter" certain types of effect, such as lightning storm, valakut and grapeshot. I've currently got it in the sideboard.

I've never felt the need to run rhonas. That's just me though. I haven't ever had a game where I thought "having access to rhonas in that game would have resulted in a win instead of a loss" so I've never bothered with the card. I've never comboed off and not been able to smash my way through hate cards like Stony silence or leyline. Rec sage or pridemage do the job admirably.

So let's talk crazy:
Im considering foregoing the black splash for a Nahiri package just to see what would happen. Naya vizier sounds fun, and the sideboard options would actually be great. Maindeck bolts also suddenly becomes a thing with those ever-useful eternal witnesses.

I've got my 'stock' list that I'll always return to, but these short tristes and experiments have to happen, haha. I'm too much of a dabbler to just play the same exact thing all the time =)