I've played with 22 lands, 21 lands, and 20 and I think, at least for me, 20 is the sweet spot with 4 birds and 4 nobles. I will admit it can get a tough from time to time when you have one land, one bird and a few two drops and you make the pull to keep it- and the bird gets the bolt/push.
I'm still on the fence with going 4x Tidehollow I want to playtest it a bit more. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday at our weekly modern event but decided not to. (Went 3-0 on my standard build)
What are all your thoughts on Distended Mindbender? I've always had a soft spot for this card in the board but I rarely see it anymore. Are there any matchups it'd be good for other than obvious midrange stuff like jund?
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
It wouldn't be hard to go four colour and include both tidehollow sculler and meddling mage in this deck. Just one of these cards can allow you to push the combo through removal or prevent a key opposing combo component from being cast - together it's possible to shut down an opponent for multiple turns.
I see this deck as a combo deck with a medium-beats (thanks cedric phillips) plan B. If the metagame is such that the medium beats aren't great, why can't our plan B be a hatebears-style "shut you down beats" affair?
Just a thought. Gavony is of course the gel that holds this all together.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Don’t get me wrong, tidehollow sculler is great, but why are people choosing this over kitesail Freebooter? The latter is less taxing on mana and has flying... this combined with gavony township can give a real boost if we can’t find our combo.
If I am missing something then I love to be enlightened
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Cheeri0s is the breakfast of championsWRU Everyone loves an angry mobRWG Why so Bloo?RU
Don’t get me wrong, tidehollow sculler is great, but why are people choosing this over kitesail Freebooter? The latter is less taxing on mana and has flying... this combined with gavony township can give a real boost if we can’t find our combo.
If I am missing something then I love to be enlightened
I mean it's a fair consideration. Flying is huge, and the easier mana cost is a bonus.
However we aren't restricted by tribe (like the humans deck) and sculler hits more than just instants and sorceress. It can take whatever you need in order to disrupt any opponent. It also works far better in concert with meddling mage (which was my suggestion immediately above that might merit a glance).
Being able to take a threat can be just as valuable as taking a removal spell. Freebooter can miss a lot.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Don’t get me wrong, tidehollow sculler is great, but why are people choosing this over kitesail Freebooter? The latter is less taxing on mana and has flying... this combined with gavony township can give a real boost if we can’t find our combo.
If I am missing something then I love to be enlightened
I mean it's a fair consideration. Flying is huge, and the easier mana cost is a bonus.
However we aren't restricted by tribe (like the humans deck) and sculler hits more than just instants and sorceress. It can take whatever you need in order to disrupt any opponent. It also works far better in concert with meddling mage (which was my suggestion immediately above that might merit a glance).
Being able to take a threat can be just as valuable as taking a removal spell. Freebooter can miss a lot.
Additionally Freebooter doesn't interact favorably with Viscera Seer like sculler does.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Don’t get me wrong, tidehollow sculler is great, but why are people choosing this over kitesail Freebooter? The latter is less taxing on mana and has flying... this combined with gavony township can give a real boost if we can’t find our combo.
If I am missing something then I love to be enlightened
I mean it's a fair consideration. Flying is huge, and the easier mana cost is a bonus.
However we aren't restricted by tribe (like the humans deck) and sculler hits more than just instants and sorceress. It can take whatever you need in order to disrupt any opponent. It also works far better in concert with meddling mage (which was my suggestion immediately above that might merit a glance).
Being able to take a threat can be just as valuable as taking a removal spell. Freebooter can miss a lot.
Additionally Freebooter doesn't interact favorably with Viscera Seer like sculler does.
Do you mean that move where you Sacrifice the Sculler in response to his ability, effectively exiling the card forever?
hi there, im generally a control playing looking into getting a new modern deck and im thinking about this deck or affinity!with the amount of artifact hate floating around, is this a more solid choice with regard to resilience? appreciate the time, i am just new to anything other than control.
Five players showed last night so we just did a little round robin for kicks. I played the list I posted above and went 2-1 on the night, 5-3 in games.
Round 2 was against a newish player who literally put together some grixis jank at the counter with the help of the store staff as we were signing up. He didn't completely understand the sequencing of turns and how everything worked. We all helped him to play his deck against us but he really didn't have much going on in his deck. I hit the combo to get Duskwatch Recruiter and then Rhonas the Indomitable in game 1 and Walking Ballista in game 2. 2-0
Round 3 was against my buddy on Blue Merfolk. 2-1. He took game one on the back of Spreading Seas. I hit the combo on games 2 and 3.
Tidehollow Sculler was nice in each matchup for me and took away some of their threats to buy me a little extra time. I think I'll keep him for another week and see how he does in a more competitive event.
I have seen a few lists online running 4 Duskwatch Recruiter vs my 2. How many of you guys are running that number and how do you like it as compared to just 2?
I think it can be pretty dangerous to start throwing too many disruptive cards into a deck like ours.
Cards like meddling mage, sculler, the 4th vizier, viscera seer... seem good on paper but look pretty awful when you mull to six and keep a 4-lander.
I've been having some success with a GW midrange style company deck (knight, courser, witness) that plays the 16-card Druid "package". I win probably half my games just from grinding people out with three drops, and the only really embarrassing card in the list is 3x vizier
Currently Druid package is 4 Druid, 3 recruiter, 3 vizier, 4 chord, 2 ballista.
Let me know what you guys think? Have you felt like you wanted additional consistency and card quality? Or am I missing out on combo potential
I think it can be pretty dangerous to start throwing too many disruptive cards into a deck like ours.
Cards like meddling mage, sculler, the 4th vizier, viscera seer... seem good on paper but look pretty awful when you mull to six and keep a 4-lander.
I've been having some success with a GW midrange style company deck (knight, courser, witness) that plays the 16-card Druid "package". I win probably half my games just from grinding people out with three drops, and the only really embarrassing card in the list is 3x vizier
Currently Druid package is 4 Druid, 3 recruiter, 3 vizier, 4 chord, 2 ballista.
Let me know what you guys think? Have you felt like you wanted additional consistency and card quality? Or am I missing out on combo potential
I think it can be pretty dangerous to start throwing too many disruptive cards into a deck like ours.
Cards like meddling mage, sculler, the 4th vizier, viscera seer... seem good on paper but look pretty awful when you mull to six and keep a 4-lander.
I've been having some success with a GW midrange style company deck (knight, courser, witness) that plays the 16-card Druid "package". I win probably half my games just from grinding people out with three drops, and the only really embarrassing card in the list is 3x vizier
Currently Druid package is 4 Druid, 3 recruiter, 3 vizier, 4 chord, 2 ballista.
Let me know what you guys think? Have you felt like you wanted additional consistency and card quality? Or am I missing out on combo potential
I have the single Viscera Seer to enable the infinite life combo from Kitchen Finks. Kitchen Finks as a beatdown option even without the infinite life combo has been pretty effective for me. I used to run with a single Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit to get the infinite counter triggers but found it too cumbersome.
I really do like the Tidehollow Sculler so far. They can also swing in regular combat. Mine got in a number of hits last night in a few games.
Hello all, I've been playing variations of thtis deck since collected company came out, and I'm just wondering why we don't use 1 of Melira, Sylvok Outcast. Is there some reason it's sub-optimal?
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Modern UWUW ControlUW UGWSpiritsUGW GHardened ScalesG WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
I have seen a few lists online running 4 Duskwatch Recruiter vs my 2. How many of you guys are running that number and how do you like it as compared to just 2?
I run the full 4 since I am not of the seemingly common opinion that you need to "run as few as possible". It's still a good card even if you are not in the process of comboing off.
Hello all, I've been playing variations of thtis deck since collected company came out, and I'm just wondering why we don't use 1 of Melira, Sylvok Outcast. Is there some reason it's sub-optimal?
It's a Nonbo with Devoted Druid. it prevents you from being able to pay the cost to untap it.
@bfitz88
Yep, not having 4 Viziers means you're missing out on combo potential. Not tons, but still. 2 Ballista might be 1 Ballista and 1 Rhonas (can be Coco'd directly, diversity is also dece).
@Tidehollow Sculler
Tested 4 main today against a friend on UWR Control (which was a way harder MU than I expected, ho boy). He was decent-ish, and you can do sneaky stuff like chording them out and all, but didn't feel great all in all. I realize it's not the "OMG get moar scullaz" MU so I'mma keep testing, but so far I often felt like more threats would play better. Curious how they'll play vs Storm and Valakut tho
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"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
@bfitz88
Yep, not having 4 Viziers means you're missing out on combo potential. Not tons, but still. 2 Ballista might be 1 Ballista and 1 Rhonas (can be Coco'd directly, diversity is also dece).
I am running one of each as a guard of sorts against Surgical Extraction and to be a CoCo hit.
Hey bfitz, I'm thinking I want to be on the GW plan too, splashing red for kessig potentially. I love Knight especially! I second DSTROOT, do you have a decklist to share? I'll share mine after I take it to an event.
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I've played with 22 lands, 21 lands, and 20 and I think, at least for me, 20 is the sweet spot with 4 birds and 4 nobles. I will admit it can get a tough from time to time when you have one land, one bird and a few two drops and you make the pull to keep it- and the bird gets the bolt/push.
I'm still on the fence with going 4x Tidehollow I want to playtest it a bit more. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday at our weekly modern event but decided not to. (Went 3-0 on my standard build)
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
It wouldn't be hard to go four colour and include both tidehollow sculler and meddling mage in this deck. Just one of these cards can allow you to push the combo through removal or prevent a key opposing combo component from being cast - together it's possible to shut down an opponent for multiple turns.
I see this deck as a combo deck with a medium-beats (thanks cedric phillips) plan B. If the metagame is such that the medium beats aren't great, why can't our plan B be a hatebears-style "shut you down beats" affair?
Just a thought. Gavony is of course the gel that holds this all together.
Don’t get me wrong, tidehollow sculler is great, but why are people choosing this over kitesail Freebooter? The latter is less taxing on mana and has flying... this combined with gavony township can give a real boost if we can’t find our combo.
If I am missing something then I love to be enlightened
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
I mean it's a fair consideration. Flying is huge, and the easier mana cost is a bonus.
However we aren't restricted by tribe (like the humans deck) and sculler hits more than just instants and sorceress. It can take whatever you need in order to disrupt any opponent. It also works far better in concert with meddling mage (which was my suggestion immediately above that might merit a glance).
Being able to take a threat can be just as valuable as taking a removal spell. Freebooter can miss a lot.
Additionally Freebooter doesn't interact favorably with Viscera Seer like sculler does.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Do you mean that move where you Sacrifice the Sculler in response to his ability, effectively exiling the card forever?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Round 1 I went 1-2 against Living End. Game 1 I couldn't find my mana combo pieces so I was going on the beat-down plan with a couple of Tidehollow Sculler before finally hitting the Vizier of Remedies, Devoted Druid mana combo to get Chord of Calling
into Duskwatch Recruiter and then Walking Ballista. Games 2 and 3 he hit his combo before I could get going.
Round 2 was against a newish player who literally put together some grixis jank at the counter with the help of the store staff as we were signing up. He didn't completely understand the sequencing of turns and how everything worked. We all helped him to play his deck against us but he really didn't have much going on in his deck. I hit the combo to get Duskwatch Recruiter and then Rhonas the Indomitable in game 1 and Walking Ballista in game 2. 2-0
Round 3 was against my buddy on Blue Merfolk. 2-1. He took game one on the back of Spreading Seas. I hit the combo on games 2 and 3.
Tidehollow Sculler was nice in each matchup for me and took away some of their threats to buy me a little extra time. I think I'll keep him for another week and see how he does in a more competitive event.
I have seen a few lists online running 4 Duskwatch Recruiter vs my 2. How many of you guys are running that number and how do you like it as compared to just 2?
Thanks all and good luck out there.
Cards like meddling mage, sculler, the 4th vizier, viscera seer... seem good on paper but look pretty awful when you mull to six and keep a 4-lander.
I've been having some success with a GW midrange style company deck (knight, courser, witness) that plays the 16-card Druid "package". I win probably half my games just from grinding people out with three drops, and the only really embarrassing card in the list is 3x vizier
Currently Druid package is 4 Druid, 3 recruiter, 3 vizier, 4 chord, 2 ballista.
Let me know what you guys think? Have you felt like you wanted additional consistency and card quality? Or am I missing out on combo potential
Share your decklist?
I wanted to go all in on the infinite green mana combo with Walking Ballista and Rhonas the Indomitable as my two finishers. I have the full 4 Vizier of Remedies because I want to have every opportunity to draw in to or hit it off a Collected Company or Duskwatch Recruiter.
I have the single Viscera Seer to enable the infinite life combo from Kitchen Finks. Kitchen Finks as a beatdown option even without the infinite life combo has been pretty effective for me. I used to run with a single Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit to get the infinite counter triggers but found it too cumbersome.
I really do like the Tidehollow Sculler so far. They can also swing in regular combat. Mine got in a number of hits last night in a few games.
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
I run the full 4 since I am not of the seemingly common opinion that you need to "run as few as possible". It's still a good card even if you are not in the process of comboing off.
It's a Nonbo with Devoted Druid. it prevents you from being able to pay the cost to untap it.
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Yep, not having 4 Viziers means you're missing out on combo potential. Not tons, but still. 2 Ballista might be 1 Ballista and 1 Rhonas (can be Coco'd directly, diversity is also dece).
@Tidehollow Sculler
Tested 4 main today against a friend on UWR Control (which was a way harder MU than I expected, ho boy). He was decent-ish, and you can do sneaky stuff like chording them out and all, but didn't feel great all in all. I realize it's not the "OMG get moar scullaz" MU so I'mma keep testing, but so far I often felt like more threats would play better. Curious how they'll play vs Storm and Valakut tho
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
I am running one of each as a guard of sorts against Surgical Extraction and to be a CoCo hit.