There are two sb cards that i don't see in many lists, that i think help our troublesome matchups :
1- Maelstrom Pulse
2- Thrun, the Last Troll
Maelstrom Pulse kills the cards that really hose us, Like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Leyline of the Void, Kalitas, traitor of Ghet, ect. All stuff that abrupt decay can't kill.
Also, against merfolk, it kills master of waves, and spreading seas (even better if they played multiple seas)
Thrun, the Last Troll is great against Tron. They literally cannot kill it any other way than Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Thrun survives sweepers and regenerates against o stone. Thrun is also excellent against control. Thrun survives anger of the Gods, which is a huge problem for Abzan Company, It forces them to have damnation or Wrath of God or they will just lose.
So please, someone tell me why these two cards are not heavily played in sideboards? The fact that they cannot be hit by Company is no excuse, because lists are running 2-3 Abrupt Decays.
When Ugin is cast we likely have lost unless chord for Revoker, or have Company end of turn which will likely kill it from swinging, but Maelstrom Pulse can't stop it from activating. Leyline of the Void is a pain, but don't think it's worth trying to line up 1-2 pulse with their 4 voids when we have creatures that destroy it, Kalitas and friends we still run Path to Exile which is easy to use multiple times. If there are multiple spreading seas its' going to be difficult to cast maelstrom pulse anyway. They are most likely to place it on a B/x mana source.
I've tried Thrun and it doesn't work like it seems it would, mainly because it can be blocked easily and just doesn't do enough while in play to justify not being able to cheat it into play besides chording. You should try it though, seems like it should work, it just doesn't give enough speed or help combo.
Actually lists had stopped running decay when twin was banned, the resurgence of Decay in board is because of things in Foundry decks and the increase of countermagic shenanigans to protect combo plans... stuff like Twin was doing kind of.
If you want such a catch all I'd go with anguished unmaking, sorcery speed telegraphs the pulse too much which I dislike, it can't hit a Blood Moon for example, a card I've been seeing alot lately. Anguished unmaking deals 3 dmg but we have the MD life gain to make up for it and it exiles the permanent which can be very relevant. The only real downside is that it doesn't hit multiples which I guess can be relevant depending on the board state and matchup.
A.D. doesn't hit 3+ cc cards so that "practically" is still a long list of cards (ex. Kalitas/Night of Soul's Betrayal/Leyline of the void/ Elspeth Sun's Champion and other 4+ cc Planeswalkers, Tasigur/Gurmag, exiles any Eldrazi threat etc). I'm not advocating for Anguished unmaking I'm merely pointing out that I'd prefer it over Pulse for our deck if one were to want such an effect.
Tell me again how instant speed doesn't matter when you're hit by a blood moon with only shocklands and a Pulse in hand, or when you remove a grafdigger's cage or a hate piece with the chance to combo off next turn but since you could not do it EOT your opponent decides to deploy a second hate card he was holding in hand. Or when you're facing a Batterskull beatdown and don't want to allow your opponent to bring it back to the hand in resp to your Pulse. Those things do matter alot as well. Anyways,imo these and the tokens scenario you mentioned don't happen frequently enough for you to rely on drawing a one-of.
Edit: In regards to the eldrazi taxes deck, I actually proxied the deck for testing since it's my kind of deck and the matchup can be tough if your opponent has an early vial going and draws the relevant disruption against us. They have some cards which we don't mind much like Thalia but most of their creatures can be a nuisance (Strangler/Thought-Knot/Displacer/Leonin Arbiter/Flickerwisp).
Township beats is only viable if he doesn't have an eldrazi displacer going and flickerwisp also sort of annuls our biggest threat. Getting hit by a flickerwisp EOT on one of your persist creatures followed by a Wasteland Strangler is the biggest blowout they can have against us imo. 2 MD relics and 4 paths are also annoying. I'd say the matchup is pretty even.
There are two sb cards that i don't see in many lists, that i think help our troublesome matchups :
1- Maelstrom Pulse
2- Thrun, the Last Troll
Maelstrom Pulse kills the cards that really hose us, Like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Leyline of the Void, Kalitas, traitor of Ghet, ect. All stuff that abrupt decay can't kill.
Also, against merfolk, it kills master of waves, and spreading seas (even better if they played multiple seas)
Thrun, the Last Troll is great against Tron. They literally cannot kill it any other way than Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Thrun survives sweepers and regenerates against o stone. Thrun is also excellent against control. Thrun survives anger of the Gods, which is a huge problem for Abzan Company, It forces them to have damnation or Wrath of God or they will just lose.
So please, someone tell me why these two cards are not heavily played in sideboards? The fact that they cannot be hit by Company is no excuse, because lists are running 2-3 Abrupt Decays.
For pulse, I think the biggest reason is just the instant speed. This is a deck that frequently holds mana open for EoT Company/Chord, so if you have a Decay in hand you are also holding up mana for that. Playing at instant speed it a huge plus.
As for Thrun, I think he is great against blue Control. However, he can be blocked so easily by Goyfs and the like. I run a Sigarda instead; it's worse against control but much better against BGx, which is big in my meta.
The reasons to not play Maelstrom Pulse over A.Decay... So poor. Keep in mind that every single non creature you draw is a gift from the gods so it better deal with what you need or it rather be another creature. Keep in mind that you don't play removal MB for a reason and this deck, besides the 3 big aggro decks is probably the deck with the best win % pre sb.
Also if you are bring in Thrun against decks that can easily block... You are doing it the wrong way. Not that I agree with Thrun but really?
Every deck that was originally mentioned in the Thrun post can easily block Thrun while advancing their gameplan.
Thinking of battling with this list tomorrow at my local game store. Main hasn't changed, as I think it is very well balanced. Would only add the Canopies if I had them:
Whelp 99% identical to my preferred 75 right now, except I have +1 Spellskite MD and -1 Marsh Flats. With 9 manadorks and 22 lands I've never had mana issues. In fact I often find myself with ~2 lands in hand and just can't get rid of them fast enough. The Spellskite mass in the mainboard is key to protecting the combo and also screwing over those hyper-linear decks game 1 for free wins. I suggest that, but I can see why anyone would be skeptical to play 22 lands. (I do have lots of results to back it up though)
There are so many things that I argue with myself over in this deck. The minute details really make it.
22 lands vs. 23 lands is something that I've been arguing over. If I did cut a land to go to 22 it would be the Gavony Township 100% though. You need colored sources.
There are so many things that I argue with myself over in this deck. The minute details really make it.
22 lands vs. 23 lands is something that I've been arguing over. If I did cut a land to go to 22 it would be the Gavony Township 100% though. You need colored sources.
I noticed an Abzan Company took 1st out of 616 players (mtgtop8) playing 61 cards, presumably to bridge the gap between 22 and 23 lands...
Is there room in here for an Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, plays nice with Kitchen Finks itself, and 22 of 30 of creatures are green. With a 1-off Oran, I might choose 23 over 22 lands.
Another option is Eiganjo Castle to keep Melira and Anafenza out of bolt range.
New to the Abzan Company deck (running a list similar to the one from Milwaukee). Is there any reason for no Kataki in the SB? Stony Silence is great against Tron, but Kataki seems good as a card that can be tutored by Chord against Affinity.
Kataki is a great sideboard card. If you land it early against affinity you can just win the game. Its also good against lantern control and tezzerator. Unfortunately it doesn't have a lot of applications.
Ux cannot block Thrun sorry to disagree. Unless it is Grixis with Tasigur/Gurmag. It does not make sense to talk about Goyfs and Thrun because Thrun is not a card against BGx, it is a card against UX, mostly UWR I guess. I do not really like it, but I do not like Sigarda as well. I'd prefer Blood Baron but it's still not a thing I would play in my sb. I bring Linvala in so it basically plays that role that you look for but in a much worse way, at least it stop Kiki and Ooze.
And yeah Thrun and any other 4/5 drop sucks against Tron.
Ux can easily block Thrun from experience, it's chump blockers though. It was previously stated that Thrun alone can win, but is not the case when they get extra turns from chumping him and advancing their endgame gameplan, which does not involve creatures anyway and we just gimp our speed by having casted out a Thrun. But I agree those are all not up to par for the slot except Linvala.
I play Open last weekend open with similar list milwakee winner, i'm lost in top 4 versus jeskai nahiri control, any recomendation for this match?
How to sideboarding?
How to play?
My sideboard
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
1 Burrenton Forge tender
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kataki War's Wage
1 Linvalla Keeper of Silence
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sin Collector
I've been going the more black route with 3 fulminator and 2 flip lili main. I don't run voices or nobles however. The pressure this puts on them having great answers early to the LD as well as the fact that if I'm not destroying lands I'm likely combing off has felt very strong.
If the jeskai nahiri deck gets very popular I wouldn't mind including a few pithing needle for their Collonade and Nahiri, it's also solid for the mirror and a few other matches.
I play Open last weekend open with similar list milwakee winner, i'm lost in top 4 versus jeskai nahiri control, any recomendation for this match?
How to sideboarding?
How to play?
My sideboard
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
1 Burrenton Forge tender
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kataki War's Wage
1 Linvalla Keeper of silence
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sin Collector
Jeskai Nahiri was running rampant at states yesterday. I was prepared for it with 2x Thoughtseize, 2x Sin Collector and 1x Anguished Unmaking in the sideboard.
I never played it however. My matchups were as follows.
Round 1 - Dredge - 2-1 - I started off my day with a really bad hand. I really should have known better and should have mulliganed. I thought i was playing against mill when I sat as he landed two hedron crabs early but they were for milling himself. Unfortunately I never got beyond 2 lands and lost game 1. Luckily I landed an early scavenging ooze in game 2 (which is lights out) and in game 3 he mulled to 5 when i was hitting relevant creatures off collected company. This matchup seems favorable overall.
Round 2 - Infect - 2-0 - Whenever you get this matchup it should be a cakewalk if you keep a reasonable hand. It was like having the bye after getting two early melira's down with gas to go with.
Round 3 - Kiki-Chord - 2-0 - Admittedly this was my first time playing this matchup and from reading this forum I thought it would be a bad matchup. My goal was to go for combo and while he kept me off it for a while I eventually completed my combo one turn before he could (the damage one). Game 2 I got into a weird position where I had no Viscera seer's in my deck with one going into the Graveyard and one in my hand (with no black mana to cast). I scryed a bunch and eventually drew a card of horizon canopy which was Chord of Calling. I immediately chorded for one (knowing that there was no seer in there) and he conceded. Lucky me.
Round 4 - Abzan Company 1-2 - Game 1 I comboed off. Game 2 he comboed off while keeping me off combo. Game 3 was a slogfest. We continually built up boards and gavony township triggers. He had more mana dorks so he was in the lead. We went to turns. I decided to make a win-now kind of play and sacced my horizon canopy for a card to get closer to combo and wiffed. Eventually he won because i was a turn behind on township triggers and in part because I made a misplay in attacking on my last turn.
Round 5 - G/R Tron - 0-2 - He assembled tron into turn 4 Ugin, turn 6 Ulamog and I was crushed. Game 2 he has Chromatic Star in play and Urza's tower. I sin collector to see Chromatic Sphere, Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying, Ancient Stirrings, 2x Urza's Power Plant. I had a qasali pridemage in hand and wanted to keep him off tron so I took sylvan scrying. He played expidition map and Chromatic Sphere next turn (off the star) with the power plant now in play. I blew up the expedition map with a Qasali Pridemage and thought I was in a pretty good spot. Unfortunately he had drawn another sylvan scrying and another expedition map and assempled tron. He then got sanctum of ugin off of ancient stirrings and naturally drew into World Breaker which he played and sacced sanctum to get Ulamog. Pretty nut draw from the Tron player but thems the kicks.
Round 6 - Infect - 2-1 - He didn't understand how Inkmoth Nexus with Melira out worked and ended up paying dearly for it. Game 2 I actually had melira out but he ended up killing me with two inkmoth nexuses after dismembering my melira. This is my first loss to Infect in about 20 or so games played. I was due. Game 3 I had some paths and anguished unmaking plus blockers. He had a slow hand. He had a lot of counterspells but not much gas and I ended up winning this match when I comboed off for infinite damage.
Round 7 - Boros Burn - 2-0 - Best draws of the day. Turn 3 infinite life game 1 after he played a rabblemaster of all things. Turn 3 Company into 2x Kitchen Finks into Turn 4 combo in game 2. Insane draws and I admitted as such to my opponent even the matchup is more than favorable.
Overall I finished 5-2 for 14th place. I wish I could replay that mirror as I don't have a lot of experience with it and feel like a second wack at it would turn out differently.
Just a recommendation from the Pod days, but it wasn't unheard of for Abzan Pod lists to splash red for Slaughter Games out of the board when single card combo engines became popular. Doesn't seem terrible and Nahiri seems like a reasonable target. Hits Adnaus, Scapeshift, Living End as well.
I don't love it, but I don't hate it if you have your heart set on playing Company in a meta where those decks are played frequently.
I was just thinking this. It's useful against Tron and Scapeshift, our worse matchups, but can also be used to deal with problem cards from URx/BGx like Anger, Kalitas, Nahiri, etc, much more permanently than Sculler. I might try 2x-3x in the side again.
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When Ugin is cast we likely have lost unless chord for Revoker, or have Company end of turn which will likely kill it from swinging, but Maelstrom Pulse can't stop it from activating. Leyline of the Void is a pain, but don't think it's worth trying to line up 1-2 pulse with their 4 voids when we have creatures that destroy it, Kalitas and friends we still run Path to Exile which is easy to use multiple times. If there are multiple spreading seas its' going to be difficult to cast maelstrom pulse anyway. They are most likely to place it on a B/x mana source.
I've tried Thrun and it doesn't work like it seems it would, mainly because it can be blocked easily and just doesn't do enough while in play to justify not being able to cheat it into play besides chording. You should try it though, seems like it should work, it just doesn't give enough speed or help combo.
Actually lists had stopped running decay when twin was banned, the resurgence of Decay in board is because of things in Foundry decks and the increase of countermagic shenanigans to protect combo plans... stuff like Twin was doing kind of.
Edit: In regards to the eldrazi taxes deck, I actually proxied the deck for testing since it's my kind of deck and the matchup can be tough if your opponent has an early vial going and draws the relevant disruption against us. They have some cards which we don't mind much like Thalia but most of their creatures can be a nuisance (Strangler/Thought-Knot/Displacer/Leonin Arbiter/Flickerwisp).
Township beats is only viable if he doesn't have an eldrazi displacer going and flickerwisp also sort of annuls our biggest threat. Getting hit by a flickerwisp EOT on one of your persist creatures followed by a Wasteland Strangler is the biggest blowout they can have against us imo. 2 MD relics and 4 paths are also annoying. I'd say the matchup is pretty even.
For pulse, I think the biggest reason is just the instant speed. This is a deck that frequently holds mana open for EoT Company/Chord, so if you have a Decay in hand you are also holding up mana for that. Playing at instant speed it a huge plus.
As for Thrun, I think he is great against blue Control. However, he can be blocked so easily by Goyfs and the like. I run a Sigarda instead; it's worse against control but much better against BGx, which is big in my meta.
Every deck that was originally mentioned in the Thrun post can easily block Thrun while advancing their gameplan.
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
22 lands vs. 23 lands is something that I've been arguing over. If I did cut a land to go to 22 it would be the Gavony Township 100% though. You need colored sources.
I noticed an Abzan Company took 1st out of 616 players (mtgtop8) playing 61 cards, presumably to bridge the gap between 22 and 23 lands...
Is there room in here for an Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, plays nice with Kitchen Finks itself, and 22 of 30 of creatures are green. With a 1-off Oran, I might choose 23 over 22 lands.
Another option is Eiganjo Castle to keep Melira and Anafenza out of bolt range.
Ux can easily block Thrun from experience, it's chump blockers though. It was previously stated that Thrun alone can win, but is not the case when they get extra turns from chumping him and advancing their endgame gameplan, which does not involve creatures anyway and we just gimp our speed by having casted out a Thrun. But I agree those are all not up to par for the slot except Linvala.
How to sideboarding?
How to play?
My sideboard
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
1 Burrenton Forge tender
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kataki War's Wage
1 Linvalla Keeper of Silence
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sin Collector
How to sideboarding?
How to play?
My sideboard
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
1 Burrenton Forge tender
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kataki War's Wage
1 Linvalla Keeper of silence
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sin Collector
I never played it however. My matchups were as follows.
Round 1 - Dredge - 2-1 - I started off my day with a really bad hand. I really should have known better and should have mulliganed. I thought i was playing against mill when I sat as he landed two hedron crabs early but they were for milling himself. Unfortunately I never got beyond 2 lands and lost game 1. Luckily I landed an early scavenging ooze in game 2 (which is lights out) and in game 3 he mulled to 5 when i was hitting relevant creatures off collected company. This matchup seems favorable overall.
Round 2 - Infect - 2-0 - Whenever you get this matchup it should be a cakewalk if you keep a reasonable hand. It was like having the bye after getting two early melira's down with gas to go with.
Round 3 - Kiki-Chord - 2-0 - Admittedly this was my first time playing this matchup and from reading this forum I thought it would be a bad matchup. My goal was to go for combo and while he kept me off it for a while I eventually completed my combo one turn before he could (the damage one). Game 2 I got into a weird position where I had no Viscera seer's in my deck with one going into the Graveyard and one in my hand (with no black mana to cast). I scryed a bunch and eventually drew a card of horizon canopy which was Chord of Calling. I immediately chorded for one (knowing that there was no seer in there) and he conceded. Lucky me.
Round 4 - Abzan Company 1-2 - Game 1 I comboed off. Game 2 he comboed off while keeping me off combo. Game 3 was a slogfest. We continually built up boards and gavony township triggers. He had more mana dorks so he was in the lead. We went to turns. I decided to make a win-now kind of play and sacced my horizon canopy for a card to get closer to combo and wiffed. Eventually he won because i was a turn behind on township triggers and in part because I made a misplay in attacking on my last turn.
Round 5 - G/R Tron - 0-2 - He assembled tron into turn 4 Ugin, turn 6 Ulamog and I was crushed. Game 2 he has Chromatic Star in play and Urza's tower. I sin collector to see Chromatic Sphere, Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying, Ancient Stirrings, 2x Urza's Power Plant. I had a qasali pridemage in hand and wanted to keep him off tron so I took sylvan scrying. He played expidition map and Chromatic Sphere next turn (off the star) with the power plant now in play. I blew up the expedition map with a Qasali Pridemage and thought I was in a pretty good spot. Unfortunately he had drawn another sylvan scrying and another expedition map and assempled tron. He then got sanctum of ugin off of ancient stirrings and naturally drew into World Breaker which he played and sacced sanctum to get Ulamog. Pretty nut draw from the Tron player but thems the kicks.
Round 6 - Infect - 2-1 - He didn't understand how Inkmoth Nexus with Melira out worked and ended up paying dearly for it. Game 2 I actually had melira out but he ended up killing me with two inkmoth nexuses after dismembering my melira. This is my first loss to Infect in about 20 or so games played. I was due. Game 3 I had some paths and anguished unmaking plus blockers. He had a slow hand. He had a lot of counterspells but not much gas and I ended up winning this match when I comboed off for infinite damage.
Round 7 - Boros Burn - 2-0 - Best draws of the day. Turn 3 infinite life game 1 after he played a rabblemaster of all things. Turn 3 Company into 2x Kitchen Finks into Turn 4 combo in game 2. Insane draws and I admitted as such to my opponent even the matchup is more than favorable.
Overall I finished 5-2 for 14th place. I wish I could replay that mirror as I don't have a lot of experience with it and feel like a second wack at it would turn out differently.
This was the list:
4x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
2x Temple Garden
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Razorverge Thicket
3x Gavony Township
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Swamp
Spells (8)
4x Collected Company
4x Chord of Calling
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2x Anafenza Kin-Tree Spirit
2x Viscera Seer
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
2x Wall of Roots
3x Eternal Witness
1x Murderous Redcap
2x Voice of Resurgence
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Spellskite
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Thoughtseize
2x Sin Collector
3x Path to Exile
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Khataki, War's Wage
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Voice of Resurgence
1x Anguished Unmaking
I don't love it, but I don't hate it if you have your heart set on playing Company in a meta where those decks are played frequently.
I was just thinking this. It's useful against Tron and Scapeshift, our worse matchups, but can also be used to deal with problem cards from URx/BGx like Anger, Kalitas, Nahiri, etc, much more permanently than Sculler. I might try 2x-3x in the side again.