i dont know why more poeple dont run obzedat, ghost council. i run a grixis version and this card can help when the deck durdles around sometimes or help you play the slow role against decks like living end. Plus he gets around the negative stipulations of vengence and breach
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
@Kathal: Never, ever cut SSG - as my experience shows, it's crucial when doing combo. I'm even trying to save them before while setuping. Noxious Revival is an interesting option, I'll need to explore it. Green Pact is rather bad, as it cannot find Griselbrand :/
@DaR: instead of Night's Whisper I'm using Tormenting Voice. Paying 2 life can be very painful and cost 1 Grisebrand activation. Moreover, T-Voice is a discard outlet (I found 4 Faithless Looting not enough). Agree, 4 rituals too much, I'm cutting to 3 next time.
Oh, I quite regular board 1 or 2 SSG out, since I don't need them in specific match-ups (where I have more than enough time and I need the interaction). Cutting one MD may sound strange, but you get get the "stored" 2 mana from the Prism. It is just an idea I want to try. I will report my test results (as soon as I find time to play again ). I just have to make notes, if my fizzle rate increases or not.
Although the G Pact doesn't find you Grisel, it finds you Borbor and Wurms for free which is crucial when you just have a Shoal but nothing to pitch besides Morphose, Time of Need (it is in the Time of Need slot). In those situations it really shines. Also, sometimes when I have just a Breach but nothing else I pact for a Wurm and try to kill the opponent with the Wurm. Time of Need can be better here (depending on when you drew it/how much time do you still have), but overall I'm quite happy with the Pact.
The big thing about Night's Whisper is, it nets you 1 card. This doesn't sound that amazing, but against Discard heavy decks and especially against an active Liliana you notice it. I would never go below 2 Night's Whisper, but that's just my opinion. In general, if you are winning with your deck and you feel happy with that version stick to it.
i dont know why more poeple dont run obzedat, ghost council. i run a grixis version and this card can help when the deck durdles around sometimes or help you play the slow role against decks like living end. Plus he gets around the negative stipulations of vengence and breach
ATM we are mainly talking about the Shoal Version. In that version space is pretty limited (you have at most 3 flex slots). So often you can't play something like Obzedat, because you don't have the space for him.
BUT in the BR/Grixis version (basically the non-Ooze/Shoal version) I liked him, especially for the reasons you mentioned. The only thing I disliked was, that I couldn't hardcast him (exception was from a Prism).
@All, I just lived and had the Turn 2 kill otd against Amulet Bloom, when he went for the Hive Mind - Pact kill on turn 2 . Killed him in my Upkeep in response to the Pact trigger.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
@DaR: instead of Night's Whisper I'm using Tormenting Voice. Paying 2 life can be very painful and cost 1 Grisebrand activation. Moreover, T-Voice is a discard outlet (I found 4 Faithless Looting not enough). Agree, 4 rituals too much, I'm cutting to 3 next time.
I've mentioned this before in other posts, but the problem I run into is that occasionally, especially against decks that have any amount of discard, I reach the point where I don't have anything in hand that I do want to discard. When you're sitting on a hand of Goryo's, Breach, Wurm, Shoal, with 4 land in play what do you discard to cast Tormenting Voice? Goryo's and hope to draw Land and maybe a second fatty? Breach and hope to draw fatty and another discard outlet? Wurm, to shuffle back in and hope you draw multiple pieces and don't brick on the combo? Shoal, and hope you can combo off without it?
i dont know why more poeple dont run obzedat, ghost council. i run a grixis version and this card can help when the deck durdles around sometimes or help you play the slow role against decks like living end. Plus he gets around the negative stipulations of vengence and breach
I love the concept of Obzedat, Ghost Council, and played the hell out of it in standard, but my initial testing proved it just a touch too slow in this deck and format. It doesn't dodge much of the removal played in modern (only really Decay, Pulse, and the very rare board sweeper like Supreme Verdict or Damnation), doesn't assist any other engine or combo of the deck unless you're on Soul Spike, and even if they have absolutely no removal or blockers, it takes about 3 turns to kill, plus the life gain isn't enough to usually matter.
As cute as the interaction with breach/goryo's is, it you're generally just better off with a more impactful creature. Emrakul almost always effectively ends the game in one swing. Griselbrand usually does, if only by providing insurmountable card advantage and setting up future attacks. Borborygmos can end a game in 1 turn with enough lands as an instant speed ability that doesn't care about the attack step, and can set up future attempts via his mill/draw trigger. Worldspine Wurm doesn't work with Goryo's, but usually ends a game if breached and also works with shoal in that version of the deck.
To be playable in the deck, a creature basically has to be at least as good as one of those 4 creatures at ending a game, or have some sort of superior synergy with another part of the deck, like being the right color to pitch to Shoal/Spike/Fury, or having some game changing ETB trigger.
My matches were against Doran Junk (1-2): Game 1 he plays a Birds of Pradise and beats in with a Doran. I get a turn 4 TTB on Wurmcoil beat in and out value him with the Wurm tokens. Game 2 he has 2 spirit tokens and Doran in play, swings in, and plays Tower Defense. Game 3 I have consistency issues and draw no reanimation targets playing 3 Faithless Lootings(1 was flashed) and a Tormenting Voice Merfolk (2-1) Game 1 I play a Goryo targeting Grisel at the end of his turn 4, all he had in hand was Spell Pierce and I go off on my turn with Grisel of Borbo. Game 2 I had consistency issues. Game 3 I win with a TTB Worldspine Infect (2-0) Game 1 I win on turn 3 with Griselbrand a turn before he had lethal. Game 2 he keeps a creature heavy hand(2 Blighted agent and an Inkmoth), but doesn't draw any cheap Pumps(he drew 2 Become Immense and an Apostle's Blessing). I win on turn 4 with Griselbrand. Gr Tron(1-2) Game 1 I'm on the play, he has turn 3 assembled tron and drops Wurmcoil, but I go off turn 4 with Griselbrand. Game 2 I keep what looks like a solid hand (2 land, Shoal, Worldspine, Grisel, Tormenting, Faithless Looting). The match dragged on because I couldn't hit a Goryo or TTB. Eventually he drops Pithing Needle naming Girselbrand the turn before I draw Goryo and wasn't able to go off. Game 3 I mull to 6 and keep a hand with 3 land, a Night's whisper, a Shoal, and Faithless looting. I get consistency issues and end with game with 3 shoals in hand land.
Overall it was a very fun deck, and have plans to play it again. The worst losses though for the deck are when I draw Groyo/TTB and no Targets, or vice versa. I had a bit of trouble deciding what exactly to remove when sideboarding, because everything felt so vital. Most of the time it ended up being a mix of Night's Whisper and Manamorphose. Any helpful tips would be greatly appreciated. Also if there were any channels or streams I could watch of somebody playing would be really useful. I didn't play against Splinter Twin tonight, but me and my friend playtested the matchup and it feels almost unwinnable, even with splicing.
I agree that Lightning Storm is a cleaner kill, but it just lacks synergy overall. You can't Goryo's or Breach a Storm if you fail to find a Griselbrand and combo off. You also can't flash reanimate it to block and then use a land or two in hand to clear the opponent's board in order to give you more time to assemble the full combo. And, as Kathal says, you can't pitch it to Shoal, though if you're on the RB Classic version, you can pitch it to Fury, which makes it at least worth considering as a 1 of in that sort of deck.
@Demon Boy jr
I usually start by cutting some number of Whispers, Voices, and Manamorphose as well. If the matchup is one where I expect heavy graveyard hate (decks playing W for RIP, or Living End which plays Leylines of the Void), I may cut a Goryo's or two. Likewise, if the matchup is pure speed (Infect, Amulet Bloom), I may cut a Breach.
Since I am lazy and an engineer I use plenty of abbreviations in my writeup. Sorry
Round 1 RG Tron: This matchup seems complete unlosable as long as they do not resolve a T3 Karn with no response from us. Game one he was mana-screwed, and a TTB Worldspine Wurm ended the game quickly. G2 he attempts to cast a T4 Sundering Titan, and in response I TTB Griselbrand and combo him out.
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
1-0
Round 2 Angel’s Grace/Ad Nauseam: Now this is a fun match. We both combo at instant speed but they often have Angel’s Grace to protect themselves from our combo. G1 I use Goryo’s Vengeance on Borborygmos just to ensure I get to play my third land to be able to TTB a Worldspine Wurm on the following turn. G2 I go for the combo, expecting for him to have Angel’s Grace. I put him to 1 life, and filter through my deck do that after cleanup I have 3x Goryo’s, TTB, Land, Worldspine Wurm, TTB, so I can set up pressure every turn and run him out of Angel’s Grace’s to beat him.
SB: (I expected him to remove his Lightning Storm and play to a different wincon. Perhaps Leylines are better in this matchup. I’ve contemplated this a bit too much)
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
2-0
Round 3 Battle of Wits: Very close games. G1 I just TTB a Wurm and he has no answer. G2 I put him to 1 after a Borborygmos attack and fail to finish him off. G3 I kept the following: Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, Land, Through the Breach, Griselbrand, Worldspine Wurm
Drew two lands and planned to beat him. Put in Worldspine Wurm and attack. He draws Detention Sphere and wrecks me. I still debate whether it was correct or not. Often times with this list if you use the SSGs early, it makes it hard to finish the combo-kill, so there was a lot of internal debate about what to cheat in. Ultimately, I got punished for it.
SB: (Note, I plan on adding Blood Moon to the board for this matchup. Seems very powerful against these types of decks)
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
2-1
Round 4 Jund/Abzan mix: Not particularly close games. He attempts to disrupt me but doesn’t know what to take. (Thoughtsieze takes Griselbrand, IoK takes manamorphose). I just TTB a Worldspine Wurm and kill him. G2 I kept a good hand against him if I draw lands: Land, Through the Breach, Through the Breach, Goryo’s Vengeance, Night’s Whisper, Night’s Whisper
This is the type of hand you almost always snap-keep. (Moreso if you have 2 lands and 1 Whisper). The cheat spells are always more powerful than the fatties, and having repetition is really powerful. Ultimately, he attempts to disrupt my hand, but I hit the second land drop and proceed to just combo him out when he only has B open.
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Leyline of Sanctity
3-1
Eventually I will get around to building this on MTGO and streaming it.
nice finish with the deck. I want to give you some input regards some plays:
Round 1 against RG Tron:
Going for a TTB Wurm is kinda tricky, since it doesn't kill them in one swing. Normally this is no problem, but they started to play Ugin beside O-Stone, which can wreck that plan pretty easy. Otherwise you are right, Turn 3 Karn is their best bet to win the game. Btw. nice win in response to the Sundering Titan (flavour points for killing him in response to the trigger from Titan , even more flavour points to kill Titan first and then kill him).
Round 2:
That one is really tricky. I didn't have the opportunity to play this match-up (since nobody plays it here). There are 2 things you have to know about this deck (I played it for some time, pre Seething Song ban), first they are normally running 4 Pact of Negation as their only hardcounter (some lists run Remand, but to be true, I'm not up-to-date with the current version). You can abuse this "weakness" by comboing off before they have 4 Mana (I always calculate with SSG from their side). Second, there is a window, after he casts grace and before Ad Nauseam resolves. You are basically trying to get a huge lifetotal so, that he can't kill you with his lands. This may sound silly, but don't forget, you can also pitch lands for Lightning Storm and redirect it on their face. Hence, with 10 lands and a life total over 21 you should be sure to "kill" them (they will deck them self at the next turn)(they normally are only playing 20 lands, normally 4 lands are in play, this means they have 16 lands to pitch, they need 10 for your life total and than you have more lands as them (10 is bigger than 6 (non Latin Unicode isn't working atm :s))). The only downside is, that he could just decide to draw 1 card, but this gives you the win when you untap (Problem is, when you are doing it in your turn, than it gets tricky, but normally you should be able to assemble a TTB Wurm, which gives you the win next turn).
They normally are playing Conflagrate in their SB which they should bring in. This allows them to win, when you have something like 40 lifepoints. The problem for them is, that it is sorcery speed, so you get another point where you can kill them.
Overall I think, that you played this Match-up correct, what I can remember playing that deck.
Round 3:
I want to talk about game 3 (since the first 2 doesn't really matter). In general you can expect from a Battle of Wits deck, that it plays stuff like Wraths, Detention Sphere, Pulse or other mass removal IF their take isn't a Zoo approach (mono creature and burn deck). Now you have to lines, the one you took and the Grisel line. The first one looses to the mentioned cards (when he has a clock on board) and the second one well, here it gets interesting. First (without knowing what was exactly in play), you could TTB Grisel, draw 14 cards and set up a kill for next turn, if you are afraid to fizzle (I wouldn't go for it, since you need to find the 2 SSG and a Desperate Ritual to be able to get enough mana for the Looting, Goryo's line or the TTB line), or you TTB him in the attack step from the opponent and block with him (when you are kinda low on life) and draw again 14 cards (or as many as you believe you can draw (matters against expected burn from him)). I would have taken that line, since it "grantees" a win next turn. But all those depend on what the board is, or if you have any relevant information about his hand/deck from the previous games.
In general I say, if I can TTB either Grisel or Wurm in (depending on what I have to use) I will always go for Grisel, since drawing 7-14 cards are enough to find a kill for next turn. An exception for this is, when I have to use a Shoal + pitch+ a SSG/Ritual. Then I would go for the Wurm (also depends what my opponent is playing).
Round 4: Nothing special here.
Overall I like the 3/1 split between Night's Whisper and Tormenting Voices.
@Thread I will most likely buy into MTGO, so I will probably be able to stream some games/load them up on youtube.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: @LuBuFu, know that feeling (I'm a "lazy" engineer too XD)
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I have been playing Magic for about a year, and in general play "fun" decks. One of my favorite cards is Worldspine Wurm, and I would love to be able to play it in Modern. Thus my interest in Griselbrand Reanimator Shoal version.
I have been reading through this thread and all over the internet for help as I am trying to teach myself the deck -- and while it looks fun it is complex and a bit intimidating to be honest.
I would love to see some video of the Shoal deck in action, or any other resources you guys might know of (write-ups, strategy, ect.) that would help me learn the deck. This thread is great, and i like reading how it does against the meta, but I am needing something more akin to a step-by-step, if you will.
Long time lurker here! Finally decided to post my version of the deck... have been playing with it for a couple of month (finished 6th in a recent PPTQ)
It's a mix between the Ooze version and the Shoal! And frankly, it is working pretty well... I think the main reason is Grisly Salvage (green source for Shoal, ability to dig for a land or a creature (to breach), and can put a creature in the GY if needed, all for 2 mana at instant speed)
The singleton Manamorphose is there is I ever combo turn 1 or 2 (and it a draw spell whenever I have more then 3 lands) as for the Jarad Order, its a nice Shoal target and worst case, its a "I win next turn card"! But to be honest, its often SB out !
Quick summary of my PPTQ..
Round 1 Blue Moon:
G1 Turn 1 Faithless put Grisel in the GY, I have the Goryo in hand... we draw and go (he countered my turn 3 Grisly Salvage) he tapped out at turn 5 to play Stormbreath Dragon , game over!
G2 (SB in Duress and Boseiju) I turn 1 Duress him, saw a Blood Moon, a Cryptic and a Remand (plus lands and Stormbreath), took out Remand, next turn draw another Duress, play fetch (go get a basic swamp, already had a Blackcleave in play) Duress his Cryptic and faithless, Grisel in GY, Goryo in hand, he tapped out to play Blood Moon... 2-0
1-0
Round 2 UWR Control:
G1 Almost Perfect Hand ( Grisel, Simian Spirit Guide, Swamp, Faithless, Goryo, Borborymos and Wurm) I win the roll.. decide to test Lady Luck.... Exile Simian, play Faithless and hope to get my second land... NO!! Well.. discard Grisel and Borborygmos, He play tap land.. I draw a land!! Win on turn 2
G2 (SB in the Duress/Boseiju) Turn 1 he play a Myth Realized, I have no turn 1 play, but Grisly Salvage, Grisel , Goryo, 2 lands and 2 Night Whisper, Turn 2 he Serum Vision, I cast Night Whisper (draw 2 Duress), I have 8 cards in end... discard the Grisel! Turn 3 he Serum again and kept 2 mana open... I draw a land... Duress(remove the remand) and Goryo ... he concede after I draw half my library 2-0
2-0
Round 3 GR Tron
G1: Dont have any notes for this game... (was too busy playing... my opponent was a really talented player!!) But I remember when he realized against what kind of deck he was playing... on his turn 3,he add 2 Urza land.. he Ghost Quartered one of his Urza to get a forest, cast a Ancient Stirrings, and reavealed a Relic... nice play mister
G2: (SB in Pithing Needle) 2 Pithing Needle in hand... I turn 1 Pithing naming Relic (he had one in hand he told me after) and turn 2 naming Expedition Map... dont remember the rest except I won
G3: Turn 2 Goryo Borborygmos into turn 4 Wurm closed the game... 2-1
3-0
Round 4 Doran
G1: I kep a hand with 2 Wurm, Breach, Shoal, Night Whisper and 2 lands. He flood the board really fast (Noble into Noble, Nobles (yes.. 3 Nobles) into Doran, Spellskite..) I have to Shoal to survive and managed to draw into the combo...
G2: (I had not see any discard effect from him... and I got the feeling he wasnt playing any.. so I just SB in Pithing Needle(for Scanvenging Ooze)) I kept a hand with Pithing, 3 lands, Simian Spirit Guide, Breach and Faithless. He start the game with Leyline of Sanctity and a Noble! I Faithless and draw Land/Wurm, I discard Simian and 1 land), on turn 2, he play RiP and another Noble! Eurk.... I draw into Grisly Salvage! He cast Doran and Spellskite, eot Grisly (took a land). Draw Night Whisper... We are both at 17hp (shock+fetch) he got 9 power on board...I use the Night Whisper, (put me at 15) drawed into Ooze/Grisel, and play Pithing naming Spellskite (no need to name Scanveging Ooze... already a RiP in play) He play Courser of Kruphix, attack me for 9 (I am at 6), my turn draw into Goryo, I TTB a Wurm he doesnt block! At my eot, Wurm die, 3 5/5 token on the board!! (he ask to see the card and call a judge!) Unless he draw a Path.. game is mine! No path (and he told me after he had a Detention Sphere in his deck!)
4-0
G5-G6 Draw into top8
I am in 4th place, first game.. playing against a Kiki/Twin deck! (saw the guy playing earlier)
Round 1. I faithless turn 1, Grisel in the GY, he Serum Vision. I Faithless again (got a Goryo and a land), he Serum again.. I try to Goryo he had a Dispel (damn) on his turn 3, He do nothing... My turn 4, play a Grisly Salvage (kept a Ooze) at my eot, he Deceiver, he has the Twin in hand
Round 2 (SB in Duress, Boseiju)
Nothing much to say.. run into Spell Snare and Dispel... he comboed at turn 4! Sometime they have it
So, finished in 6th place! Still playing with some part of the deck (like the SB) but I really like it!
(First time I am posting, will get better with time ) (and also try to take better notes )
Hey all. I'm curious about this deck. I wanted to build a Legacy Reanimator deck, but kind of gave up once I saw the price of Underground Sea.
Anyway, how does the deck turbo out for a T2 kill? Also, does it often use the splice onto arcane ability? Perhaps if someone has a few minutes, they wouldn't mind explaining it to me. It'd be great to get a play by play walkthrough (T1, play this, T2, do this, cast this, combo, that kinda thing).
Hey all. I'm curious about this deck. I wanted to build a Legacy Reanimator deck, but kind of gave up once I saw the price of Underground Sea.
Anyway, how does the deck turbo out for a T2 kill? Also, does it often use the splice onto arcane ability? Perhaps if someone has a few minutes, they wouldn't mind explaining it to me. It'd be great to get a play by play walkthrough (T1, play this, T2, do this, cast this, combo, that kinda thing).
I played Legacy Reanimator (have U-Seas) - I can say these two decks are very different. Shoal Reanimator is more likely Tin Fins in Legacy.
T2 Kill in Modern goes like this:
T1: land, faithless looting, discard griselbrand and smth
T2: land, goryo's vengeance targetint griselbrand. Draw 7, then 7 more, cast shoal pitching wurm, gain 11 life, draw 7. You may attack if life is of importance. After drawing almost all your library, you need to put borborygmos onto battlefield. Let'say, SSG, SSG, Desperate Ritual, Manamorphosis (gaining BR), another faithless looting, discar borborygmos and smth, goryo targeting borborygmos, discar lands, win.
That sounds crazy good.
What happens if after 14 cards you don't get Wurm or Shoal? Seems you're kinda screwed. Or do you just attack for 7, then draw again? After that it seems like you'd be in trouble.
How do you guys handle burn? If you lose 14 from Griselbrand, you're down to 6. Now you could attack again and gain 7 more, but if you have to draw again, 2 quick burn spells and you're dead. You can side in Leyline in between games I guess.
What about counter magic? Going off on T2 will prevent massive things like Cryptic Command, but Spell Snare, Remand, Swan Song or Spell Pierce could be troublesome if they target Goryo's Vengeance, especially if they're on the play and have two lands out.
Also, how do you handle GY hate? Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus and the like could be quite a problem.
I'm just trying to do the math...so if you're opponent is at 20, on T2 you cast Griselbrand, hit for 7, they're at 13. So after getting Borborygmos into play, you'd ditch 5 and kill?
In theory, you can actually kill on T1, with the ideal hand/draw.
You need to start with Simian Spirit Guide and a Faithless Looting, and then to have or draw into the following four cards: an untapped land that makes black, a second Guide, a Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand. Optionally, you can use a Manamorphose with any untapped land, instead of an untapped black land.
Basic outline is the same as nonja mentioned. Turn 1, exile SSG for the Looting, discarding the Griselbrand. Then play your land, exile the second SSG, use manamophose if necessary, and play Goryo's.
In the RB or Grixis versions, you then generally attack, draw 21 cards, and hope that gets you either your Soul Spike or Fury of the Horde sequence in order to pitch 2 extra cards to either attack again or drain enough life in order to draw more cards to drain/attack again, until your opponent is dead.
The shoal version can also kill at this point, but the downside is that needing the 2nd SSG on turn 1 it makes going off a little harder, as you need to eventually draw both of the remaining 2 SSG in order to kickstart the Desperate Ritual chain needed to make enough mana to get a Borborygmos into play. If your SSG are too far down and your Shoals don't line up with your Wurms, you can actually fizzle.
As far as getting Borborygmos into play, the goal is to either cast Desperate Ritual or, better, splice it onto a Nourishing Shoal. In an early combo, almost every line starts with exiling 2 SSG, while later lines you may have extra untapped land. Splicing Ritual lets you then cast it again to get up to 4 mana. 4 mana lets you use Tormenting Voice instead of Faithless to discard Borborygmos, then Manamorphose into Goryos. 4 mana is also relevant because it actually opens the line of being able to splice Through the Breach onto another Shoal, which can be done at instant speed, unlike the Faithless/Voice route. Some people, including myself, have tried running a 1-of Lightning Axe or Funeral Charm as another source of instant speed discard, needing only 3 total mana (Manamorphose RR into BB, use a R or B for Axe/Charm, then the other B and 1 for Goryo's).
Splicing generally occurs in only 2 situations. First is when comboing out, as I described. The other is when you're up against a deck with heavy counter spells. Twin, UWR Control, some builds of Scapeshift, etc. In those cases you'll often sacrifice a Shoal (usually exiling something like Manamorphose and not Wurm) or a Desperate Ritual at their end step in order to splice on a Goryo's or Breach. They'll be forced to counter (and hopefully tap out), then you untap and cast the spell again. It basically lets you increase the effective number of reanimation spells.
On the very rare occasion, you may use splicing to cheat the mana cost on Through the Breach. You can Shoal, then splice Breach, to save 1 mana. And if you've got Rituals and/or SSG, that can lead to a turn 3 or even turn 2 Breach, which may put the game away before they have a chance to mount any opposition. I've Breached a Wurm early on more than one occasion, because hitting for 15 and leaving 15 power on board is usually a win. The downside to this sort of line is that you'll basically empty your hand, and if your kill fails due to a Path to Exile or Vapor Snag or surprise Pact of Negation, you will be in for a long slog to get back to another go, as you'll usually have spent almost every card in your hand.
Just went 4-0 in a modern daily first time running the shoal version of the deck, I really like it! I'm running 4 of Tormenting Voice 0 Nights Whisper though. Also I did have a turn 2 win in the last match, as well as a Rakdos Charm vs Splinter Twin. Something sort of unique to MTGO is it's a pain in the ass to make a ton of Deceiver Exarch copies, thus it's sort of mean but with Shoal you can survive another turn if they're unsuspecting.
Edit: Also, I saw a RB version of the deck running 2 Lilianna of the Veil, which seems like it could be pretty good.
I build myself the Ooze version of the deck and went 1-3 in our LGS weekly. However, I did play a lot of mistakes because of work. I'll explain them below.
Match 1 was against. Naya Zoo and I lost 1-2. First game I kept a one-lander and never drew my second land. Second game I combo'd on turn 3. Third game I lost to Scavenging Ooze which I could not remove. My friend was piloting the Zoo deck and knew my Griselbrand-Ooze build I had been working on, so he knew how to play against it.
Match 2 was against BUG delver and I lost 1-2. Game 1 I won with the normal comboing off. Game 2 I lost to Tasigur and beats, because I kept a pretty bad hand. Game 3 was worst mistake of the night. I had just comboed with Griselbrand and was sitting in 8 life and I had previously used Inquisition of Kozilek on my opponent and I knew my opponent had Electrolyze. My opponent was in 2 life and I knew the rest of my deck has one Soul Spike. My brain shut down, I drew seven without getting Soul Spike, went to 1 life and my opponent finished me off with "why did you do that?". I could have easily reanimated Griselbrand/Burbabababa next turn and won with ease.
Match 3 was against GW hatebears. I lost 0-2. Both games there was Scavenging Ooze I could not get rid of.
Match 4 I was paired up against Junk/Abzan. Game 1 I won by comboing off. Game 2 I lost because I did not draw anything that would allow me to discard a Griselbrand. Game 3 I won with first Griselbrand combo and then finished my opponent with a reanimated Burbababa in a turn after that.
All in all, this definitely is a deck and its funny that there was no graveyard hate in my opponent's sideboards, apart from Scavenging Ooze of course. But yeah, I made stupid mistakes that lost me the game. Still the deck is whole 'lot of fun.
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Modern: BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes) Legacy: BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
Long long lurker here. Decided that modern is the way I wanna go now, and this deck seems pretty fun. Especially since it uses Griselbrand (one of my favorite creatures) as one of the main pieces.
Any advice on which version I should try first? I'm really liking the Jund version, seems like the synergy is there, plus I like the fact that I don't have to wait till Emrakul is reprinted to use it.
Took this to 2nd at the PPTQ last weekend, losing to my friend piloting infect. Received half a box of standard and half a box of MMA2, so not bad EV at all. Overall the 73 is amazing, if I had to do it again (which I will come tomorrow at another modern pptq) I would cut a thruns for defense grid and darkblast.
I played round 1 vs Scapeshift, round 2 vs UWR/Jeskai Control, round 3 vs Domain Zoo, round 4 vs Scapeshift, round 5 vs Grixis Delver, and round 6 vs Splinter Twin ending as the top seed of the tournament. There was a strong showing of scapeshift in the field due to all the tron at the pptq the weekend before. Top 8 was burn, scapeshift (why do people seriously play this deck?), and then Infect. Playing around lightning bolt all day was somewhat annoying. Highlights of the tournament include: fizzling game 1 vs Splinter Twin with 5 cards in my library (3 of them being simian spirit guides and 1 of them being a shoal), killing the jeskai control player on a mull to 5 on turn 2 game 1, killing the same Jeskai control player with a bloodstained mire trigger and a vendilion clique on the stack, killing a twin player through 2 lightning bolts while a duress and a pestermite (splinter twin in his hand) were on the stack, gaining 11 life with a shoal in response to a cocky scapeshift player hitting me for 18 semis of top 8 (I was at 16, he dropped his scapeshift down and went "Kill you?" I told him, "Play it out" with a bit of a shrug, he got upset a bit about it, went through all the motions, and then I shoaled for 11. He was pretty upset about it, I untapped and breached in Griselbrand to win the game.), game 2 vs burn casting shoal for 11 life on turn 1 to play around skullcrack, and killing the domain zoo player on his turn in response to a lethal lightning bolt to my face.
If anyone is curious about sideboard plans, etc, feel free to ask. I think if you plan on playing this deck, there is no reason to play anything other than the shoal version. The weakest matchups are Infect, as you cannot take the draw game 1 vs it to get aggressive mulligans, and maybe some of the tier 3 combo decks..though you are generally faster than them anyways.
Well, one question I have is about the Thoughtseizes vs Duress and when to side those in/out. I'm also not sure when I should cycle Manamorphose or just keep it, and finally the balance between Tormenting Voice vs Night's Whisper, as I find myself without a way to discard Griselbrand without 3-4 Tormenting Voice.
Hey all. Another week, another 3-1 (I can't seem to climb that hurdle Sooner or later)
Here's the report (took a while to add this due to finals, but whatevs)
Round 1: Battle of Wits
Game 1: A really epic game when I force him to make the choices he doesn't want to do. I greedily force a TTB on a Wurm when he Mystical Teachings for Gifts Ungiven. Attack to put him to 3, so I force him to get Unburial Rites/Elesh Norn rather than Iona. Then I Goryo's a Griselbrand for the win (flying OP). Game 2, he casts Wargate for 1 after I cast Faithless Looting. I assume he is going to get Grafdigger's Cage, so I have to respond with the Vengeance on Grisel. But I dun goofed. (Didn't draw 7 cards and he gets Pithing Needle) This one was completely on me. Lost because of it. Game 3: The T2 kill on the play (Faithless into Goryo's). Was beautiful to do it into his T1 elf.
1-0
Round 3: Infect
Jeez. This is a match. It literally feels like a giant arms race (given, since I don't have Spellskites in the board yet, it becomes a giant race to see who kills who first). Literally, I T2 him the first game, he T2s me the second, and I T2 him the third.
Oddly enough, this was the GR Tron player who was still on tilt from the prior week and thought he would just crush me.
I feel that this matchup is REALLY hard if you don't draw a fast kill. Gotta play it more to learn some better insights I could mention.
3-0
Round 4: Affinity
This is probably your worst matchup. A fast deck that gets to punish you with Dispatch/Spell Pierce postboard. The first game he spewed his entire hard + Ravager on T1. I kept a slower hand going in blind and just lost. Game two I properly played around Dispatch + Spell Pierce + Galvanic Blast with his 3 open mana and 3 cards in his hand. Turns out he had all 3, so it was good. (Notes: Playing around each depends on the scenario. Dispatch is like Path, so attack or force him to cast before drawing. Playing around blast means to watch your life total reaaaaalllllyyyy carefully. I baited the Pierce with Spirit Guides.) The final game he again was super fast and I couldn't recover.
3-1
Hope this helps a little bit. I am a little too tired to make any meaningful comments. Maybe another time
Woo lazy ending!
Hey all, I took the shoal version to FNM and did OK, 2-2. Lost to Hate Bears and to Delver. Win vs. Mill and Green good stuff. I misplayed a few times and am still learning what hands are keepable on the play vs draw. I feel the deck will take a while to master but it's so fun to play I won't mind. One chance I made was swapping whispers out for abrupt decays. Another card to pitch to soak is nice and they just do so much work. Anyway, looking forward to any insight you all can give. I plan to take the deck to Charlotte next month, need to practice a lot till then!
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Oh, I quite regular board 1 or 2 SSG out, since I don't need them in specific match-ups (where I have more than enough time and I need the interaction). Cutting one MD may sound strange, but you get get the "stored" 2 mana from the Prism. It is just an idea I want to try. I will report my test results (as soon as I find time to play again ). I just have to make notes, if my fizzle rate increases or not.
Although the G Pact doesn't find you Grisel, it finds you Borbor and Wurms for free which is crucial when you just have a Shoal but nothing to pitch besides Morphose, Time of Need (it is in the Time of Need slot). In those situations it really shines. Also, sometimes when I have just a Breach but nothing else I pact for a Wurm and try to kill the opponent with the Wurm. Time of Need can be better here (depending on when you drew it/how much time do you still have), but overall I'm quite happy with the Pact.
The big thing about Night's Whisper is, it nets you 1 card. This doesn't sound that amazing, but against Discard heavy decks and especially against an active Liliana you notice it. I would never go below 2 Night's Whisper, but that's just my opinion. In general, if you are winning with your deck and you feel happy with that version stick to it.
ATM we are mainly talking about the Shoal Version. In that version space is pretty limited (you have at most 3 flex slots). So often you can't play something like Obzedat, because you don't have the space for him.
BUT in the BR/Grixis version (basically the non-Ooze/Shoal version) I liked him, especially for the reasons you mentioned. The only thing I disliked was, that I couldn't hardcast him (exception was from a Prism).
@All, I just lived and had the Turn 2 kill otd against Amulet Bloom, when he went for the Hive Mind - Pact kill on turn 2 . Killed him in my Upkeep in response to the Pact trigger.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I've mentioned this before in other posts, but the problem I run into is that occasionally, especially against decks that have any amount of discard, I reach the point where I don't have anything in hand that I do want to discard. When you're sitting on a hand of Goryo's, Breach, Wurm, Shoal, with 4 land in play what do you discard to cast Tormenting Voice? Goryo's and hope to draw Land and maybe a second fatty? Breach and hope to draw fatty and another discard outlet? Wurm, to shuffle back in and hope you draw multiple pieces and don't brick on the combo? Shoal, and hope you can combo off without it?
I love the concept of Obzedat, Ghost Council, and played the hell out of it in standard, but my initial testing proved it just a touch too slow in this deck and format. It doesn't dodge much of the removal played in modern (only really Decay, Pulse, and the very rare board sweeper like Supreme Verdict or Damnation), doesn't assist any other engine or combo of the deck unless you're on Soul Spike, and even if they have absolutely no removal or blockers, it takes about 3 turns to kill, plus the life gain isn't enough to usually matter.
As cute as the interaction with breach/goryo's is, it you're generally just better off with a more impactful creature. Emrakul almost always effectively ends the game in one swing. Griselbrand usually does, if only by providing insurmountable card advantage and setting up future attacks. Borborygmos can end a game in 1 turn with enough lands as an instant speed ability that doesn't care about the attack step, and can set up future attempts via his mill/draw trigger. Worldspine Wurm doesn't work with Goryo's, but usually ends a game if breached and also works with shoal in that version of the deck.
To be playable in the deck, a creature basically has to be at least as good as one of those 4 creatures at ending a game, or have some sort of superior synergy with another part of the deck, like being the right color to pitch to Shoal/Spike/Fury, or having some game changing ETB trigger.
What I like about Borbor is, that you can pitch him to Shoal and get another draw. Hence, Lightning Storm is just a worse Borbor in my opinion.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
Spells
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Through the Breach
4 Faithless Looting
2 Night's Whisper
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Manamorphose
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Woodland Foothills
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Grounds
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Spellskite
2 Pact of Negation
1 Defense Grid
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Leyline of Sanctity
My matches were against
Doran Junk (1-2): Game 1 he plays a Birds of Pradise and beats in with a Doran. I get a turn 4 TTB on Wurmcoil beat in and out value him with the Wurm tokens. Game 2 he has 2 spirit tokens and Doran in play, swings in, and plays Tower Defense. Game 3 I have consistency issues and draw no reanimation targets playing 3 Faithless Lootings(1 was flashed) and a Tormenting Voice
Merfolk (2-1) Game 1 I play a Goryo targeting Grisel at the end of his turn 4, all he had in hand was Spell Pierce and I go off on my turn with Grisel of Borbo. Game 2 I had consistency issues. Game 3 I win with a TTB Worldspine
Infect (2-0) Game 1 I win on turn 3 with Griselbrand a turn before he had lethal. Game 2 he keeps a creature heavy hand(2 Blighted agent and an Inkmoth), but doesn't draw any cheap Pumps(he drew 2 Become Immense and an Apostle's Blessing). I win on turn 4 with Griselbrand.
Gr Tron(1-2) Game 1 I'm on the play, he has turn 3 assembled tron and drops Wurmcoil, but I go off turn 4 with Griselbrand. Game 2 I keep what looks like a solid hand (2 land, Shoal, Worldspine, Grisel, Tormenting, Faithless Looting). The match dragged on because I couldn't hit a Goryo or TTB. Eventually he drops Pithing Needle naming Girselbrand the turn before I draw Goryo and wasn't able to go off. Game 3 I mull to 6 and keep a hand with 3 land, a Night's whisper, a Shoal, and Faithless looting. I get consistency issues and end with game with 3 shoals in hand land.
Overall it was a very fun deck, and have plans to play it again. The worst losses though for the deck are when I draw Groyo/TTB and no Targets, or vice versa. I had a bit of trouble deciding what exactly to remove when sideboarding, because everything felt so vital. Most of the time it ended up being a mix of Night's Whisper and Manamorphose. Any helpful tips would be greatly appreciated. Also if there were any channels or streams I could watch of somebody playing would be really useful. I didn't play against Splinter Twin tonight, but me and my friend playtested the matchup and it feels almost unwinnable, even with splicing.
Active:
BGRock/Jund/JunkRW
GRTron
0Affinity0
WGRZoo
I agree that Lightning Storm is a cleaner kill, but it just lacks synergy overall. You can't Goryo's or Breach a Storm if you fail to find a Griselbrand and combo off. You also can't flash reanimate it to block and then use a land or two in hand to clear the opponent's board in order to give you more time to assemble the full combo. And, as Kathal says, you can't pitch it to Shoal, though if you're on the RB Classic version, you can pitch it to Fury, which makes it at least worth considering as a 1 of in that sort of deck.
@Demon Boy jr
I usually start by cutting some number of Whispers, Voices, and Manamorphose as well. If the matchup is one where I expect heavy graveyard hate (decks playing W for RIP, or Living End which plays Leylines of the Void), I may cut a Goryo's or two. Likewise, if the matchup is pure speed (Infect, Amulet Bloom), I may cut a Breach.
Here’s a summary of the event and the list I ran with my thoughts.
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
1 Verdant Catacomb
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Forest
//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Griselbrand
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Worldspine Wurm
4 Faithless Looting
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Time of Need
3 Night's Whisper
1 Tormenting Voice
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Manamorphose
4 Through the Breach
1 Boseiju, who shelters all
3 Duress
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rending Volley
Since I am lazy and an engineer I use plenty of abbreviations in my writeup. Sorry
Round 1 RG Tron: This matchup seems complete unlosable as long as they do not resolve a T3 Karn with no response from us. Game one he was mana-screwed, and a TTB Worldspine Wurm ended the game quickly. G2 he attempts to cast a T4 Sundering Titan, and in response I TTB Griselbrand and combo him out.
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
1-0
Round 2 Angel’s Grace/Ad Nauseam: Now this is a fun match. We both combo at instant speed but they often have Angel’s Grace to protect themselves from our combo. G1 I use Goryo’s Vengeance on Borborygmos just to ensure I get to play my third land to be able to TTB a Worldspine Wurm on the following turn. G2 I go for the combo, expecting for him to have Angel’s Grace. I put him to 1 life, and filter through my deck do that after cleanup I have 3x Goryo’s, TTB, Land, Worldspine Wurm, TTB, so I can set up pressure every turn and run him out of Angel’s Grace’s to beat him.
SB: (I expected him to remove his Lightning Storm and play to a different wincon. Perhaps Leylines are better in this matchup. I’ve contemplated this a bit too much)
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
2-0
Round 3 Battle of Wits: Very close games. G1 I just TTB a Wurm and he has no answer. G2 I put him to 1 after a Borborygmos attack and fail to finish him off. G3 I kept the following:
Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, Land, Through the Breach, Griselbrand, Worldspine Wurm
Drew two lands and planned to beat him. Put in Worldspine Wurm and attack. He draws Detention Sphere and wrecks me. I still debate whether it was correct or not. Often times with this list if you use the SSGs early, it makes it hard to finish the combo-kill, so there was a lot of internal debate about what to cheat in. Ultimately, I got punished for it.
SB: (Note, I plan on adding Blood Moon to the board for this matchup. Seems very powerful against these types of decks)
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
2-1
Round 4 Jund/Abzan mix: Not particularly close games. He attempts to disrupt me but doesn’t know what to take. (Thoughtsieze takes Griselbrand, IoK takes manamorphose). I just TTB a Worldspine Wurm and kill him. G2 I kept a good hand against him if I draw lands:
Land, Through the Breach, Through the Breach, Goryo’s Vengeance, Night’s Whisper, Night’s Whisper
This is the type of hand you almost always snap-keep. (Moreso if you have 2 lands and 1 Whisper). The cheat spells are always more powerful than the fatties, and having repetition is really powerful. Ultimately, he attempts to disrupt my hand, but I hit the second land drop and proceed to just combo him out when he only has B open.
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Leyline of Sanctity
3-1
Eventually I will get around to building this on MTGO and streaming it.
Link to cubetutor:
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/10113
nice finish with the deck. I want to give you some input regards some plays:
Round 1 against RG Tron:
Going for a TTB Wurm is kinda tricky, since it doesn't kill them in one swing. Normally this is no problem, but they started to play Ugin beside O-Stone, which can wreck that plan pretty easy. Otherwise you are right, Turn 3 Karn is their best bet to win the game. Btw. nice win in response to the Sundering Titan (flavour points for killing him in response to the trigger from Titan , even more flavour points to kill Titan first and then kill him).
Round 2:
That one is really tricky. I didn't have the opportunity to play this match-up (since nobody plays it here). There are 2 things you have to know about this deck (I played it for some time, pre Seething Song ban), first they are normally running 4 Pact of Negation as their only hardcounter (some lists run Remand, but to be true, I'm not up-to-date with the current version). You can abuse this "weakness" by comboing off before they have 4 Mana (I always calculate with SSG from their side). Second, there is a window, after he casts grace and before Ad Nauseam resolves. You are basically trying to get a huge lifetotal so, that he can't kill you with his lands. This may sound silly, but don't forget, you can also pitch lands for Lightning Storm and redirect it on their face. Hence, with 10 lands and a life total over 21 you should be sure to "kill" them (they will deck them self at the next turn)(they normally are only playing 20 lands, normally 4 lands are in play, this means they have 16 lands to pitch, they need 10 for your life total and than you have more lands as them (10 is bigger than 6 (non Latin Unicode isn't working atm :s))). The only downside is, that he could just decide to draw 1 card, but this gives you the win when you untap (Problem is, when you are doing it in your turn, than it gets tricky, but normally you should be able to assemble a TTB Wurm, which gives you the win next turn).
They normally are playing Conflagrate in their SB which they should bring in. This allows them to win, when you have something like 40 lifepoints. The problem for them is, that it is sorcery speed, so you get another point where you can kill them.
Overall I think, that you played this Match-up correct, what I can remember playing that deck.
Round 3:
I want to talk about game 3 (since the first 2 doesn't really matter). In general you can expect from a Battle of Wits deck, that it plays stuff like Wraths, Detention Sphere, Pulse or other mass removal IF their take isn't a Zoo approach (mono creature and burn deck). Now you have to lines, the one you took and the Grisel line. The first one looses to the mentioned cards (when he has a clock on board) and the second one well, here it gets interesting. First (without knowing what was exactly in play), you could TTB Grisel, draw 14 cards and set up a kill for next turn, if you are afraid to fizzle (I wouldn't go for it, since you need to find the 2 SSG and a Desperate Ritual to be able to get enough mana for the Looting, Goryo's line or the TTB line), or you TTB him in the attack step from the opponent and block with him (when you are kinda low on life) and draw again 14 cards (or as many as you believe you can draw (matters against expected burn from him)). I would have taken that line, since it "grantees" a win next turn. But all those depend on what the board is, or if you have any relevant information about his hand/deck from the previous games.
In general I say, if I can TTB either Grisel or Wurm in (depending on what I have to use) I will always go for Grisel, since drawing 7-14 cards are enough to find a kill for next turn. An exception for this is, when I have to use a Shoal + pitch+ a SSG/Ritual. Then I would go for the Wurm (also depends what my opponent is playing).
Round 4: Nothing special here.
Overall I like the 3/1 split between Night's Whisper and Tormenting Voices.
@Thread I will most likely buy into MTGO, so I will probably be able to stream some games/load them up on youtube.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: @LuBuFu, know that feeling (I'm a "lazy" engineer too XD)
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I have been playing Magic for about a year, and in general play "fun" decks. One of my favorite cards is Worldspine Wurm, and I would love to be able to play it in Modern. Thus my interest in Griselbrand Reanimator Shoal version.
I have been reading through this thread and all over the internet for help as I am trying to teach myself the deck -- and while it looks fun it is complex and a bit intimidating to be honest.
I would love to see some video of the Shoal deck in action, or any other resources you guys might know of (write-ups, strategy, ect.) that would help me learn the deck. This thread is great, and i like reading how it does against the meta, but I am needing something more akin to a step-by-step, if you will.
Thanks!
Some of my decks:
Oath Walker Devo - Modern
Stompy - Modern
Battle of Wits - Modern
Teysa's Sac Circus - EDH
Rob's 450 Unpowered - Cube
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
2 Necrotic Ooze
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
//Instant (16)
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Grisly Salvage
1 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
3 Through the Breach
//Sorcery (8)
4 Faithless Looting
1 Jarad's Orders
2 Night's Whisper
1 Tormenting Voice
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Swamp
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Duress
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
It's a mix between the Ooze version and the Shoal! And frankly, it is working pretty well... I think the main reason is Grisly Salvage (green source for Shoal, ability to dig for a land or a creature (to breach), and can put a creature in the GY if needed, all for 2 mana at instant speed)
The singleton Manamorphose is there is I ever combo turn 1 or 2 (and it a draw spell whenever I have more then 3 lands) as for the Jarad Order, its a nice Shoal target and worst case, its a "I win next turn card"! But to be honest, its often SB out !
Quick summary of my PPTQ..
Round 1 Blue Moon:
G1 Turn 1 Faithless put Grisel in the GY, I have the Goryo in hand... we draw and go (he countered my turn 3 Grisly Salvage) he tapped out at turn 5 to play Stormbreath Dragon , game over!
G2 (SB in Duress and Boseiju) I turn 1 Duress him, saw a Blood Moon, a Cryptic and a Remand (plus lands and Stormbreath), took out Remand, next turn draw another Duress, play fetch (go get a basic swamp, already had a Blackcleave in play) Duress his Cryptic and faithless, Grisel in GY, Goryo in hand, he tapped out to play Blood Moon... 2-0
1-0
Round 2 UWR Control:
G1 Almost Perfect Hand ( Grisel, Simian Spirit Guide, Swamp, Faithless, Goryo, Borborymos and Wurm) I win the roll.. decide to test Lady Luck.... Exile Simian, play Faithless and hope to get my second land... NO!! Well.. discard Grisel and Borborygmos, He play tap land.. I draw a land!! Win on turn 2
G2 (SB in the Duress/Boseiju) Turn 1 he play a Myth Realized, I have no turn 1 play, but Grisly Salvage, Grisel , Goryo, 2 lands and 2 Night Whisper, Turn 2 he Serum Vision, I cast Night Whisper (draw 2 Duress), I have 8 cards in end... discard the Grisel! Turn 3 he Serum again and kept 2 mana open... I draw a land... Duress(remove the remand) and Goryo ... he concede after I draw half my library 2-0
2-0
Round 3 GR Tron
G1: Dont have any notes for this game... (was too busy playing... my opponent was a really talented player!!) But I remember when he realized against what kind of deck he was playing... on his turn 3,he add 2 Urza land.. he Ghost Quartered one of his Urza to get a forest, cast a Ancient Stirrings, and reavealed a Relic... nice play mister
G2: (SB in Pithing Needle) 2 Pithing Needle in hand... I turn 1 Pithing naming Relic (he had one in hand he told me after) and turn 2 naming Expedition Map... dont remember the rest except I won
G3: Turn 2 Goryo Borborygmos into turn 4 Wurm closed the game... 2-1
3-0
Round 4 Doran
G1: I kep a hand with 2 Wurm, Breach, Shoal, Night Whisper and 2 lands. He flood the board really fast (Noble into Noble, Nobles (yes.. 3 Nobles) into Doran, Spellskite..) I have to Shoal to survive and managed to draw into the combo...
G2: (I had not see any discard effect from him... and I got the feeling he wasnt playing any.. so I just SB in Pithing Needle(for Scanvenging Ooze)) I kept a hand with Pithing, 3 lands, Simian Spirit Guide, Breach and Faithless. He start the game with Leyline of Sanctity and a Noble! I Faithless and draw Land/Wurm, I discard Simian and 1 land), on turn 2, he play RiP and another Noble! Eurk.... I draw into Grisly Salvage! He cast Doran and Spellskite, eot Grisly (took a land). Draw Night Whisper... We are both at 17hp (shock+fetch) he got 9 power on board...I use the Night Whisper, (put me at 15) drawed into Ooze/Grisel, and play Pithing naming Spellskite (no need to name Scanveging Ooze... already a RiP in play) He play Courser of Kruphix, attack me for 9 (I am at 6), my turn draw into Goryo, I TTB a Wurm he doesnt block! At my eot, Wurm die, 3 5/5 token on the board!! (he ask to see the card and call a judge!) Unless he draw a Path.. game is mine! No path (and he told me after he had a Detention Sphere in his deck!)
4-0
G5-G6 Draw into top8
I am in 4th place, first game.. playing against a Kiki/Twin deck! (saw the guy playing earlier)
Round 1. I faithless turn 1, Grisel in the GY, he Serum Vision. I Faithless again (got a Goryo and a land), he Serum again.. I try to Goryo he had a Dispel (damn) on his turn 3, He do nothing... My turn 4, play a Grisly Salvage (kept a Ooze) at my eot, he Deceiver, he has the Twin in hand
Round 2 (SB in Duress, Boseiju)
Nothing much to say.. run into Spell Snare and Dispel... he comboed at turn 4! Sometime they have it
So, finished in 6th place! Still playing with some part of the deck (like the SB) but I really like it!
(First time I am posting, will get better with time ) (and also try to take better notes )
Anyway, how does the deck turbo out for a T2 kill? Also, does it often use the splice onto arcane ability? Perhaps if someone has a few minutes, they wouldn't mind explaining it to me. It'd be great to get a play by play walkthrough (T1, play this, T2, do this, cast this, combo, that kinda thing).
That sounds crazy good.
What happens if after 14 cards you don't get Wurm or Shoal? Seems you're kinda screwed. Or do you just attack for 7, then draw again? After that it seems like you'd be in trouble.
How do you guys handle burn? If you lose 14 from Griselbrand, you're down to 6. Now you could attack again and gain 7 more, but if you have to draw again, 2 quick burn spells and you're dead. You can side in Leyline in between games I guess.
What about counter magic? Going off on T2 will prevent massive things like Cryptic Command, but Spell Snare, Remand, Swan Song or Spell Pierce could be troublesome if they target Goryo's Vengeance, especially if they're on the play and have two lands out.
Also, how do you handle GY hate? Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus and the like could be quite a problem.
I'm just trying to do the math...so if you're opponent is at 20, on T2 you cast Griselbrand, hit for 7, they're at 13. So after getting Borborygmos into play, you'd ditch 5 and kill?
You need to start with Simian Spirit Guide and a Faithless Looting, and then to have or draw into the following four cards: an untapped land that makes black, a second Guide, a Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand. Optionally, you can use a Manamorphose with any untapped land, instead of an untapped black land.
Basic outline is the same as nonja mentioned. Turn 1, exile SSG for the Looting, discarding the Griselbrand. Then play your land, exile the second SSG, use manamophose if necessary, and play Goryo's.
In the RB or Grixis versions, you then generally attack, draw 21 cards, and hope that gets you either your Soul Spike or Fury of the Horde sequence in order to pitch 2 extra cards to either attack again or drain enough life in order to draw more cards to drain/attack again, until your opponent is dead.
The shoal version can also kill at this point, but the downside is that needing the 2nd SSG on turn 1 it makes going off a little harder, as you need to eventually draw both of the remaining 2 SSG in order to kickstart the Desperate Ritual chain needed to make enough mana to get a Borborygmos into play. If your SSG are too far down and your Shoals don't line up with your Wurms, you can actually fizzle.
As far as getting Borborygmos into play, the goal is to either cast Desperate Ritual or, better, splice it onto a Nourishing Shoal. In an early combo, almost every line starts with exiling 2 SSG, while later lines you may have extra untapped land. Splicing Ritual lets you then cast it again to get up to 4 mana. 4 mana lets you use Tormenting Voice instead of Faithless to discard Borborygmos, then Manamorphose into Goryos. 4 mana is also relevant because it actually opens the line of being able to splice Through the Breach onto another Shoal, which can be done at instant speed, unlike the Faithless/Voice route. Some people, including myself, have tried running a 1-of Lightning Axe or Funeral Charm as another source of instant speed discard, needing only 3 total mana (Manamorphose RR into BB, use a R or B for Axe/Charm, then the other B and 1 for Goryo's).
Splicing generally occurs in only 2 situations. First is when comboing out, as I described. The other is when you're up against a deck with heavy counter spells. Twin, UWR Control, some builds of Scapeshift, etc. In those cases you'll often sacrifice a Shoal (usually exiling something like Manamorphose and not Wurm) or a Desperate Ritual at their end step in order to splice on a Goryo's or Breach. They'll be forced to counter (and hopefully tap out), then you untap and cast the spell again. It basically lets you increase the effective number of reanimation spells.
On the very rare occasion, you may use splicing to cheat the mana cost on Through the Breach. You can Shoal, then splice Breach, to save 1 mana. And if you've got Rituals and/or SSG, that can lead to a turn 3 or even turn 2 Breach, which may put the game away before they have a chance to mount any opposition. I've Breached a Wurm early on more than one occasion, because hitting for 15 and leaving 15 power on board is usually a win. The downside to this sort of line is that you'll basically empty your hand, and if your kill fails due to a Path to Exile or Vapor Snag or surprise Pact of Negation, you will be in for a long slog to get back to another go, as you'll usually have spent almost every card in your hand.
Edit: Also, I saw a RB version of the deck running 2 Lilianna of the Veil, which seems like it could be pretty good.
Match 1 was against. Naya Zoo and I lost 1-2. First game I kept a one-lander and never drew my second land. Second game I combo'd on turn 3. Third game I lost to Scavenging Ooze which I could not remove. My friend was piloting the Zoo deck and knew my Griselbrand-Ooze build I had been working on, so he knew how to play against it.
Match 2 was against BUG delver and I lost 1-2. Game 1 I won with the normal comboing off. Game 2 I lost to Tasigur and beats, because I kept a pretty bad hand. Game 3 was worst mistake of the night. I had just comboed with Griselbrand and was sitting in 8 life and I had previously used Inquisition of Kozilek on my opponent and I knew my opponent had Electrolyze. My opponent was in 2 life and I knew the rest of my deck has one Soul Spike. My brain shut down, I drew seven without getting Soul Spike, went to 1 life and my opponent finished me off with "why did you do that?". I could have easily reanimated Griselbrand/Burbabababa next turn and won with ease.
Match 3 was against GW hatebears. I lost 0-2. Both games there was Scavenging Ooze I could not get rid of.
Match 4 I was paired up against Junk/Abzan. Game 1 I won by comboing off. Game 2 I lost because I did not draw anything that would allow me to discard a Griselbrand. Game 3 I won with first Griselbrand combo and then finished my opponent with a reanimated Burbababa in a turn after that.
All in all, this definitely is a deck and its funny that there was no graveyard hate in my opponent's sideboards, apart from Scavenging Ooze of course. But yeah, I made stupid mistakes that lost me the game. Still the deck is whole 'lot of fun.
BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes)
Legacy:
BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
Any advice on which version I should try first? I'm really liking the Jund version, seems like the synergy is there, plus I like the fact that I don't have to wait till Emrakul is reprinted to use it.
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Stomping Ground
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
4 Faithless Looting
2 Tormenting Voice
2 Night's Whisper
1 Desperate Ritual
2 Thoughtseize
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Manamorphose
4 Through the Breach
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Griselbrand
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Duress
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Thrun, the last troll
2 Boseiju, who shelters all
2 Rakdos charm
Took this to 2nd at the PPTQ last weekend, losing to my friend piloting infect. Received half a box of standard and half a box of MMA2, so not bad EV at all. Overall the 73 is amazing, if I had to do it again (which I will come tomorrow at another modern pptq) I would cut a thruns for defense grid and darkblast.
I played round 1 vs Scapeshift, round 2 vs UWR/Jeskai Control, round 3 vs Domain Zoo, round 4 vs Scapeshift, round 5 vs Grixis Delver, and round 6 vs Splinter Twin ending as the top seed of the tournament. There was a strong showing of scapeshift in the field due to all the tron at the pptq the weekend before. Top 8 was burn, scapeshift (why do people seriously play this deck?), and then Infect. Playing around lightning bolt all day was somewhat annoying. Highlights of the tournament include: fizzling game 1 vs Splinter Twin with 5 cards in my library (3 of them being simian spirit guides and 1 of them being a shoal), killing the jeskai control player on a mull to 5 on turn 2 game 1, killing the same Jeskai control player with a bloodstained mire trigger and a vendilion clique on the stack, killing a twin player through 2 lightning bolts while a duress and a pestermite (splinter twin in his hand) were on the stack, gaining 11 life with a shoal in response to a cocky scapeshift player hitting me for 18 semis of top 8 (I was at 16, he dropped his scapeshift down and went "Kill you?" I told him, "Play it out" with a bit of a shrug, he got upset a bit about it, went through all the motions, and then I shoaled for 11. He was pretty upset about it, I untapped and breached in Griselbrand to win the game.), game 2 vs burn casting shoal for 11 life on turn 1 to play around skullcrack, and killing the domain zoo player on his turn in response to a lethal lightning bolt to my face.
If anyone is curious about sideboard plans, etc, feel free to ask. I think if you plan on playing this deck, there is no reason to play anything other than the shoal version. The weakest matchups are Infect, as you cannot take the draw game 1 vs it to get aggressive mulligans, and maybe some of the tier 3 combo decks..though you are generally faster than them anyways.
Here's the report (took a while to add this due to finals, but whatevs)
Round 1: Battle of Wits
Game 1: A really epic game when I force him to make the choices he doesn't want to do. I greedily force a TTB on a Wurm when he Mystical Teachings for Gifts Ungiven. Attack to put him to 3, so I force him to get Unburial Rites/Elesh Norn rather than Iona. Then I Goryo's a Griselbrand for the win (flying OP). Game 2, he casts Wargate for 1 after I cast Faithless Looting. I assume he is going to get Grafdigger's Cage, so I have to respond with the Vengeance on Grisel. But I dun goofed. (Didn't draw 7 cards and he gets Pithing Needle) This one was completely on me. Lost because of it. Game 3: The T2 kill on the play (Faithless into Goryo's). Was beautiful to do it into his T1 elf.
1-0
Round 2: Dredge Midrange (Knight of the Reliquary/Lotleth Troll, 0 Bloodghast + Unburial Rites package)
Super easy matchup. They have 0 interaction barring Path. Easy to play around. Not really much to say, it plays like solitare.
2-0
Round 3: Infect
Jeez. This is a match. It literally feels like a giant arms race (given, since I don't have Spellskites in the board yet, it becomes a giant race to see who kills who first). Literally, I T2 him the first game, he T2s me the second, and I T2 him the third.
Oddly enough, this was the GR Tron player who was still on tilt from the prior week and thought he would just crush me.
I feel that this matchup is REALLY hard if you don't draw a fast kill. Gotta play it more to learn some better insights I could mention.
3-0
Round 4: Affinity
This is probably your worst matchup. A fast deck that gets to punish you with Dispatch/Spell Pierce postboard. The first game he spewed his entire hard + Ravager on T1. I kept a slower hand going in blind and just lost. Game two I properly played around Dispatch + Spell Pierce + Galvanic Blast with his 3 open mana and 3 cards in his hand. Turns out he had all 3, so it was good. (Notes: Playing around each depends on the scenario. Dispatch is like Path, so attack or force him to cast before drawing. Playing around blast means to watch your life total reaaaaalllllyyyy carefully. I baited the Pierce with Spirit Guides.) The final game he again was super fast and I couldn't recover.
3-1
Hope this helps a little bit. I am a little too tired to make any meaningful comments. Maybe another time
Woo lazy ending!
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
1 Verdant Catacomb
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Forest
//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Griselbrand
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Worldspine Wurm
4 Faithless Looting
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Time of Need
3 Night's Whisper
1 Tormenting Voice
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Manamorphose
4 Through the Breach
1 Boseiju, who shelters all
3 Duress
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rending Volley
Link to cubetutor:
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/10113
Some of my decks:
Oath Walker Devo - Modern
Stompy - Modern
Battle of Wits - Modern
Teysa's Sac Circus - EDH
Rob's 450 Unpowered - Cube