So, I'm playing in a 16-person store invitational in a couple weeks. I'm considering playing Grishoalbrand because I think people might skimp on GY hate. No one has played much of a GY deck at our store lately. Based on people's play habits, it is likley the field will look like this:
Burn: 3
Blue tempo: 1-2
Affinity: 2-3
Titan: 2
Drazi: 1-2
Shadow: 1-2
Infect: 1
GW value: 1
Unknown: 2
Think Grishoalbrand is a good choice?
If so, how would you build the list?
If not, what deck would you play? (I have access to basically any deck)
there's a diverse set of archetypes so it's hard to say. Grishoalbrand seems fine just have to make sure you pack your moons and chalices for your worst matchups there.
Dan Ward with a 7th place finish at a RPTQ with Grixis Breach featuring Search. No hugs/charts seems wrong, but good to see this deck put up results!
Neither one is really great when you have access to Izzet Charm and Hugs is already borderline in the BR Version.
I was pondering about Search for a while too. However, the inability to find a creature let me decide against it.
Greetings,
Kathal
I would personally prefer more cantrips, probably adding hugs over the Pushes. I really don't want to be interacting with my opponents game 1.
I think Search has been contemplated on and off in the thread ever since the spoiler, and I think we all have come to the same-ish conclusion, even though I think the card is super cool:/ It only finds half of the combo, is too durdly for my taste in game 1s, we have no use for the ramp, and graveyard hate would still be good vs. us
Would play Sleight of Hands over Hugs tbh. Heck, even Chart a Course is better than Hugs in this regard, since you can discard after drawing cards and thus set-up some Goryo's stuff for Emmi.
Besides this Search is amazing in the Esper Midrange shells from this deck (with Souls, Obzedat, Jace and co). However, totally different deck and it also plays totally different ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Would play Sleight of Hands over Hugs tbh. Heck, even Chart a Course is better than Hugs in this regard, since you can discard after drawing cards and thus set-up some Goryo's stuff for Emmi.
Besides this Search is amazing in the Esper Midrange shells from this deck (with Souls, Obzedat, Jace and co). However, totally different deck and it also plays totally different ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
yea, agree. Chart>Hug for that reason, which has an added benefit of not being soft to counterspell. Your esper midrange list sounds nice - is it the Esper Goryo's shell? I feel like Search is a card waiting to be broken in Modern. It's already found a home in Legacy Miracles
Hey guys, I always liked these type of griselbrand combo decks but never played them.
How necessary are chalice of void? That card spiked so hard my wallet is already hiding from me.
Does Laboratory maniac have a spot here, in order to play around leyline of sanctity? (I understand Borborygmos does not kill through it, right?)
Idea would be to play it out of manamorphose since if they let you draw your entire deck (aka not killing Griselbrand), they should not have an answer to it.
However this is my starting point: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/844019
Note: inquisition OR thoughseize? is there any reason you would play Inquisiton (aside of burn decks)?
Hey guys, I always liked these type of griselbrand combo decks but never played them.
How necessary are chalice of void? That card spiked so hard my wallet is already hiding from me.
Does Laboratory maniac have a spot here, in order to play around leyline of sanctity? (I understand Borborygmos does not kill through it, right?)
Idea would be to play it out of manamorphose since if they let you draw your entire deck (aka not killing Griselbrand), they should not have an answer to it.
However this is my starting point: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/844019
Note: inquisition OR thoughseize? is there any reason you would play Inquisiton (aside of burn decks)?
Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't played Grishoalbrand in bit (yet it is my favorite deck in any format).
I don't think Chalice of the Void is necessary. There are other slots that can fill that "void." You could add creature removal, discard, or Engineered Explosives in those slots. They certainly don't do the same thing, but I have actually rarely ever played Grishoalbrand with Chalice and the deck has given me my 3rd highest Modern win percentage right after Eye Eldrazi (84%) and GGT Dredge (74%). So the deck is very powerful.
I personally believe Lab Man is for infinite life, so if you have a lot of Abzan Company, I'd consider it. Outside of that, Breaching Worldspine Wurm usually beats Leyline (I guess technically, those types of decks do run some Path to Exile too, so maybe it's a consideration). I have had good success with Inquisition of Kozilek, but I have to give up that I can Thoughtseize myself and reanimate. The life loss is my reason for usually running Inquisition of Kozilek instead.
Good luck with the deck! It certainly has become one of my loves (I am still tempted to play it again, but the meta is hateful to it where I play right now).
*It looks like a good list. There are a few things I'd personally change in the SB and MB, but they're very minor and not strictly better. They just suit my play style better.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Hey guys, I always liked these type of griselbrand combo decks but never played them.
How necessary are chalice of void? That card spiked so hard my wallet is already hiding from me.
Does Laboratory maniac have a spot here, in order to play around leyline of sanctity? (I understand Borborygmos does not kill through it, right?)
Idea would be to play it out of manamorphose since if they let you draw your entire deck (aka not killing Griselbrand), they should not have an answer to it.
However this is my starting point: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/844019
Note: inquisition OR thoughseize? is there any reason you would play Inquisiton (aside of burn decks)?
Chalice isn't necessary, but I've played with it for a while and it's singlehandedly won me some games and is great in matchups that need help. You can play without it (it's a tech that people weren't playing before this year) but I think you'll be happy with the results.
Lab man I feel is completely unnecessary. I would rather play Emrakul if you want countermeasures against infinite life and Leyline. Leyline isn't that big of a deal for us.
I don't think you need more discards past Brutalities. From your list, I'd certainly try to find room for another Pact of Negation at the very least.
Winner's metagame. The top does not seem too great for us here.. I keep saying this everytime and try to metagame but end up playing Griselbrand anyways but it's interesting to note nonetheless
Affinity - 23 bad
Eldrazi Tron - 18 good
Titanshift - 16 grrrrreat
Storm - 15 bad
Abzan Counters CoCo - 12 OK
Humans - 12 bad
Grixis Shadow - 11horrendous
UW Control - 9 good
Jeskai Geist - 8 good
Traverse Shadow - 8 bad
Dredge - 8 good
UR Breach - 7 good
Abzan - 7good
Burn - 6 good
Jund - 5 good
Lantern - 5 horrendous
BW Taxes - 5 bad
GR Vengevine - 3 good
Mono W Taxes - 3 OK
Jeskai Control - 3 good
BG Tron - 3 grrrrreat
BR Moon/Control - 3 good
BG Rock - 3 good
Infect - 3 horrendous
Ad Nauseum - 3 OK
Grixis Control - 2 good
Knightfall - 2 OK
GR Tron - 2 grrrrreat
Elves - 2 good
GW Value - 2 good
Nothing worth sharing for now. However, if you really want a raw list that Gordon Ramsay would make an idiot sandwich out of me, I can share it
@finalnub, I think that the ADN match-up is slightly positive for us (around 55-45), especially due to the Clean-up step stuff I found out. Otherwise I really dislike Mono W Taxes match-up, but I have not played that much against it to give a good rating on how good or bad the match-up truly is.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I used to think Ad Nauseam is slightly unfavored because they are way more consistent, can halt our traditional kill and have Pacts. With the aforementioned trick I think it's even ish - maybe even favorable considering moons and chalices can be haymakers
I don't have much experience, but I'd imagine the matchup with mono white taxes be much more manageable than Eldrazi and friends because they don't have hand disruption. Land destruction and Thalia are still annoying but Flickerwisp doesn't really do anything against us given we don't play Emrakul. Not sure though
So, got some more intel on what people are probably playing at my store invi. I'm wondering if I should skew the SB a bit for the field. Chalice will be good against 2 decks that are horrible matchups, but could change them to something like Shatterstorm for more usefulness. I suppose the md Axe is pretty bad in this field, too. I'd love to get input on what the most 'tuned' list for this field would be.
Here is the expected field:
Burn: 2-3
Titan: 2
Affinity: 2
Drazi: 1
Jeskai: 1
Delver: 1
Infect: 1
Lantern: 1
GW Midrange: 1
Unknown: 2
Here is my current list:
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Temple of Malice
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Through the Breach
4 Worldspine Wurm
4 Night's Whisper
3 Desperate Ritual
1 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Borborygmos Enraged
1 Lightning Axe
4 Griselbrand
1 Collective Brutality
1 Tormenting Voice
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Shattering Spree
2 Pact of Negation
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Kozilek's Return
I wonder if Bontu's is strictly worse than Anger in this meta. I think it is.
Whir Lantern is actually pretty weak against Blood Moon i think. You may consider Leyline over Moons as they come in in similar matchups. Tradeoff is you improve your Burn matchup and weaken your Infect matchup.
Thanks, yeah, except for drazi, anger is probably better. And the field looks like dredge might be good, so having anger in the case of someone audibling to dredge would be much better.
I suppose Leyline helps against Titan just as well as Moon. It's better against burn. But, probably isn't worth bringing in against jeskai or delver. I've cheesed some wins against jeskai with a quick Moon on the play. Leyline does have the problem of being virtually uncastabe when not in your opener. Doesn't look like many discard decks, so hard to get extra value there.
Or did you mean replacing Chalice with Leyline. Chalice really only looks good against infect and lantern and maybe burn on the play. Leyline is much better against burn, and recent lantern decks are usually only playing two non-targeted mill rocks, so is probably just as good there, actually.
It might be worth having a 3rd Pact too for burn and blue decks, but you seldom want to draw too many of them, since they can only be used offensively.
Also, might be less GY hate, so she might need less hate for their hate.
Anyway, I think I like my main. What would your 15 cards look like for a sideboard?
Neither one is really great when you have access to Izzet Charm and Hugs is already borderline in the BR Version.
I was pondering about Search for a while too. However, the inability to find a creature let me decide against it.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I think Search has been contemplated on and off in the thread ever since the spoiler, and I think we all have come to the same-ish conclusion, even though I think the card is super cool:/ It only finds half of the combo, is too durdly for my taste in game 1s, we have no use for the ramp, and graveyard hate would still be good vs. us
Besides this Search is amazing in the Esper Midrange shells from this deck (with Souls, Obzedat, Jace and co). However, totally different deck and it also plays totally different ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
And I also agree regarding Search and have the same opinion about Traverse.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
How necessary are chalice of void? That card spiked so hard my wallet is already hiding from me.
Does Laboratory maniac have a spot here, in order to play around leyline of sanctity? (I understand Borborygmos does not kill through it, right?)
Idea would be to play it out of manamorphose since if they let you draw your entire deck (aka not killing Griselbrand), they should not have an answer to it.
However this is my starting point:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/844019
Note: inquisition OR thoughseize? is there any reason you would play Inquisiton (aside of burn decks)?
BURGrixis ControlBUR
BURGrixis DelverBUR (RIP)
UWBEsper GiftsUWB
UWUW Jace ControlUW
GUBSultai ControlGUB
UBTezzeret Agent of BolasUB
Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't played Grishoalbrand in bit (yet it is my favorite deck in any format).
I don't think Chalice of the Void is necessary. There are other slots that can fill that "void." You could add creature removal, discard, or Engineered Explosives in those slots. They certainly don't do the same thing, but I have actually rarely ever played Grishoalbrand with Chalice and the deck has given me my 3rd highest Modern win percentage right after Eye Eldrazi (84%) and GGT Dredge (74%). So the deck is very powerful.
I personally believe Lab Man is for infinite life, so if you have a lot of Abzan Company, I'd consider it. Outside of that, Breaching Worldspine Wurm usually beats Leyline (I guess technically, those types of decks do run some Path to Exile too, so maybe it's a consideration). I have had good success with Inquisition of Kozilek, but I have to give up that I can Thoughtseize myself and reanimate. The life loss is my reason for usually running Inquisition of Kozilek instead.
Good luck with the deck! It certainly has become one of my loves (I am still tempted to play it again, but the meta is hateful to it where I play right now).
*It looks like a good list. There are a few things I'd personally change in the SB and MB, but they're very minor and not strictly better. They just suit my play style better.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Would you mind posting your list?
Chalice isn't necessary, but I've played with it for a while and it's singlehandedly won me some games and is great in matchups that need help. You can play without it (it's a tech that people weren't playing before this year) but I think you'll be happy with the results.
Lab man I feel is completely unnecessary. I would rather play Emrakul if you want countermeasures against infinite life and Leyline. Leyline isn't that big of a deal for us.
I don't think you need more discards past Brutalities. From your list, I'd certainly try to find room for another Pact of Negation at the very least.
Winner's metagame. The top does not seem too great for us here.. I keep saying this everytime and try to metagame but end up playing Griselbrand anyways but it's interesting to note nonetheless
Affinity - 23 bad
Eldrazi Tron - 18 good
Titanshift - 16 grrrrreat
Storm - 15 bad
Abzan Counters CoCo - 12 OK
Humans - 12 bad
Grixis Shadow - 11horrendous
UW Control - 9 good
Jeskai Geist - 8 good
Traverse Shadow - 8 bad
Dredge - 8 good
UR Breach - 7 good
Abzan - 7good
Burn - 6 good
Jund - 5 good
Lantern - 5 horrendous
BW Taxes - 5 bad
GR Vengevine - 3 good
Mono W Taxes - 3 OK
Jeskai Control - 3 good
BG Tron - 3 grrrrreat
BR Moon/Control - 3 good
BG Rock - 3 good
Infect - 3 horrendous
Ad Nauseum - 3 OK
Grixis Control - 2 good
Knightfall - 2 OK
GR Tron - 2 grrrrreat
Elves - 2 good
GW Value - 2 good
@finalnub, I think that the ADN match-up is slightly positive for us (around 55-45), especially due to the Clean-up step stuff I found out. Otherwise I really dislike Mono W Taxes match-up, but I have not played that much against it to give a good rating on how good or bad the match-up truly is.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I don't have much experience, but I'd imagine the matchup with mono white taxes be much more manageable than Eldrazi and friends because they don't have hand disruption. Land destruction and Thalia are still annoying but Flickerwisp doesn't really do anything against us given we don't play Emrakul. Not sure though
Here is the expected field:
Burn: 2-3
Titan: 2
Affinity: 2
Drazi: 1
Jeskai: 1
Delver: 1
Infect: 1
Lantern: 1
GW Midrange: 1
Unknown: 2
Here is my current list:
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Temple of Malice
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Through the Breach
4 Worldspine Wurm
4 Night's Whisper
3 Desperate Ritual
1 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Borborygmos Enraged
1 Lightning Axe
4 Griselbrand
1 Collective Brutality
1 Tormenting Voice
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Shattering Spree
2 Pact of Negation
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Kozilek's Return
Whir Lantern is actually pretty weak against Blood Moon i think. You may consider Leyline over Moons as they come in in similar matchups. Tradeoff is you improve your Burn matchup and weaken your Infect matchup.
MD Laxe actually looks pretty good to me.
I suppose Leyline helps against Titan just as well as Moon. It's better against burn. But, probably isn't worth bringing in against jeskai or delver. I've cheesed some wins against jeskai with a quick Moon on the play. Leyline does have the problem of being virtually uncastabe when not in your opener. Doesn't look like many discard decks, so hard to get extra value there.
Or did you mean replacing Chalice with Leyline. Chalice really only looks good against infect and lantern and maybe burn on the play. Leyline is much better against burn, and recent lantern decks are usually only playing two non-targeted mill rocks, so is probably just as good there, actually.
It might be worth having a 3rd Pact too for burn and blue decks, but you seldom want to draw too many of them, since they can only be used offensively.
Also, might be less GY hate, so she might need less hate for their hate.
Anyway, I think I like my main. What would your 15 cards look like for a sideboard?
Relevant fact: I scried a Nourishing Shoal bottom. I have 4 SSGs and 1 Ritual in my deck
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)