Has anyone tried a BGR kiki chord decklist, and dropped white entirely?
We lose some of our hate, but pickup things like Inquisition and now Assassin's Trophy. The quality of BG creatures has been going up as well. Combo pieces can be 1x each of combat celebrant and zealous conscripts. I've been searching around for a creature toolbox deck after being dissatisfied with the control options in my naya kiki chord, and thought exploring black might be the way to go.
I feel like swapping for black loses you too much. Losing Resto, Voice, Pridemage, Rallier Knight of Autumn and a lot of the sideboard seems like far too steep a price to gain Trophy and... Grim Flayer?
I kinda want to start playing this deck again (played it 2 years ago for a short period of time ) and I had the following train thought (used to play Kiki Pod btw):
1) The deck usually plays enough value stuff/trains (Voice, Finks (if Evolution), Resto, Witness, Tracker,...) so it usually should beat out other midrange/value decks, especially due to the access to silver bullets (if included)
2) The deck is decent against control due to value trains and especially Voice
3) The deck struggles against things, which go above (Valakut, Tron, somewhat Eldrazie), is faster (combo) or abuses something (graveyard, KCI)
Since the decks in the (3) category can be tackled by different creature based hate cards (Magus of the Moon, Thalia, Kataki, Kambal,...) which are mostly in the 2-3 CMC slot, why not go the Evolution route to get a decent match-up against them?
This would basically mean: 6-7 Bird effects, 6-7 Evolution, 2 CMC cards you want to sac (or generate value of some sort) a lot of silver bullets, which are decent on their own (Thalia, Kambal, Magus, Revoker, Linvala) combined with the normal remaining spell suite.
However, would an approach like this even work and the more important question: What hate cards/colour combination to play?
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I understand you, but for example, instead of Eidolon of Rhetoric (which also harms this deck somewhat), Kambal, Consul of Allocation does the same job against Storm and KCI, while it is also decent against many other decks. Same can be said with Thalia (although not that great vs Storm).
Linvala does nowadays nothing, the only relevant deck she is good against is Devoted Druid. Swap her for Phyrexian Revoker which also turns of the combo, is bonkers vs KCI (turns of KCI itself, EE and Spellbomb) while still being decent against a lot of other decks (UWx Control -> PW/Search, Tron -> Maps, PW, O-Stone; Humans -> Vial (still somewhat decent); Jund, Affinity,...). That card is just better imo.
The question is not that an overload of silver bullet makes the deck worse, the question is, which silver bullets are good enough on their own to see play, so that they are not that big of an liability.
Loaming Shaman is great vs Dredge, but sucks otherwise. Hence, I would not play him atm. Yixlid Jailer does a better job at keeping Dredge down (since it just says nope to everything they can do and they only have 3 Conflegarates to kill it) while not being that big of an commitment than Loaming Shaman (less mana intensive). Would I play that card MD? Probably not, as long as there is not a huge Dredge share running around. Remorseful Cleric is the "bridge" here, a decent 2 drop (cause it flies) while still being relevant against Dredge, so you can play him MD without a problem (and re-use him with Witness).
What about Knight of Autumn, which in worse case is a mediocre beater (4/3 for 3)? It gives a MD Naturalize or life gain against burn, which both matter a lot in the current format.
Hence, if I look for example at the list posted above, who runs the following "silver bullets":
- Remorseful Cleric
- Lone Missionary
- Selfless Spirit
- Magus of the Moon
- Scab- Clan Berseker
- Goblin Chainwhirler
- Runic Armasaur
- Shalai, Voice of Plenty
- Acidi Slime
- Revillark
- Courser of Kruphix
- Tireless Tracker
- "Ajani" (not tutorable)
There are already a lot of silver bullets MD (be it utility (Shalai, Courser or Tracker) or "hate" (basically rest), which are not that great in most match-ups but still serviceable in most of them.
You could run Knight of Autumn above Missionary, which gives you a MD Shatter (and thus lessens the need of Slime MD (I know it is mainly here for the LD aspect with Resto Angle for Tron which I never liked cause it is so darn clunky), Kambal above Scab-Clan Berseker (who doesn't require the attack step), Revoker above Runic Armassaur and so on.
So, which Silver Bullets have a big enough impact in the desired match-ups while not sucking otherwise? Finding those few might be the solution to the formular imo.
But than again, before that the question of the given metagame needs to be answered and I would propose, that we (if you would want) try to find a couple of good cards for each match-up. Than it doesn't really matter how the metagame shifts, cause you can just look up the list and adapt your list accordantly.
Thoughts?
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I haven't played this deck—or Modern at all—for quite some time, but got on a camera match with Kiki-Chord so thought I would share: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/343361062 at 3:18:12.
Been playing a version with Eldritch Evolution and no Chords. Very happy with it so far - it seems to be able to capitalise very well in terms of comboing off when it's safe, and the value build with lots of death triggers is good in our current creature_combat.meta that we live in The deck seems to be better at preying on less experienced players than at fairly winning games tho, which is a concern for me taking it to higher events. Will be running it through the gauntlet of GP Side Events this weekend and will get back to you all with my findings and whatever list I settle on...
It mainboards only the widest reaching and most impactful hatebears, and aims to play a value/beatdown game with a lot of lifegain and graveyard recursion. Leaning on a playset of Restos and using Evo as my sole tutor makes me much more able to combo off as well, to punish uninteractive or tapped out opponents. I'd say my wins are somewhere around 50/50 split between beatdown and combo kills.
In terms of sideboard, there's a lot there that can't be tutored for. I already have tutorable grave hate in the main, so I'm happy running Rest in Peace for it's sheer power in the side. Mostly the side is noncreature spells that ruin matchups for certain decks, with a couple of cards that can be tutored that make the gane very difficult for certain decks. I'm a particular fan of Settle the Wreckage and Cataclysmic Gearhulk - in the latter case, the decks it is best against don't have s way of interacting with it, and it effectively guarantees you being ahead on board after it resolves.
Vannifar can turn darn near any board state involving at least one other creature into the combo the turn she loses summoning sickness, so I think Vannifar builds are viable. I've had access to a Turn 4 combo so many times. (So many decks have insta-killed Vannifar, though.) This deck has some trouble getting going if it never sees Vannifar, though.
I've comboed off with Vannifar and a 1-drop so, so often in testing that Scryb Ranger and Renegade Rallier are definitely staying.
I haven't comboed off from a 0-drop, a 2-drop not named Scryb Ranger, or a 3-drop yet, so I'm not quite sure whether Dryad Arbor or Seedcradle Witch are staying. I have been in situations where the ability to combo off from those board states would have helped, but I didn't have enough resources (mana/Forests). I doubt putting a Teardrop Kami or a second 3-mana untapper in this deck are completely worth it, though.
I'm surprised how often the pump ability of Seedcradle Witch has won games, though. It's won two games so far, so at times, it's not just a combo piece that lets me combo off from a 0-drop/2-drop/3-drop.
The Eldritch Evolution in this deck is supposed to let me combo off faster, but I've comboed off with Vannifar & Chord of Calling twice so far (one with X = 1, another with X = 2). Dang Gx Tron tests and their use of Walking Ballista to kill my 1-drop the turn before I combo. I've also Flashed in Vannifar with Chord once so far.
I'm not quite sure about the mana base. I rarely tutor for Steam Vents, and the fetch-shock base is fairly painful at times, especially since this deck can be Forest-hungry. If I pull Knight of the Reliquary (I haven't tutored for it yet), I'm replacing Field of Ruin with something else. Hanweir Battlements and Minamo have won their fair share of games, though. (Minamo mainly lets me combo off without fearing Bolt by turning a creature into combo protection.)
I made this deck by taking one of my old Kiki Pod decks and modding it from there. Note that Zealous Conscripts and Murderous Redcap were in my old Kiki Pod deck but not this deck. (Glen Elendra Archmage has been a haymaker of a hate bear/combo protection, though.)
Btw, Hall of the Bandit Lord allows for a Turn 3 with Vannifar but I'm pretty sure that this card is not worth to get played. In the same sense, I'm not sure if Minawo is really worth it. The only thing it does is, that it allows the deck to win of any three drop (you need 4 mana: fetch Ranger of Eos, untap with Minawo, cast one drop, go the normal CMC 1 + 4 route (Scyrb Ranger into Kiki, copy Scry Ranger, grab Exarch, combo off)). However, the land is not tutorable, which sucks a lot. Same thing for Hanweir, so dunno how reasonable it actually is to play those two lands, especially if they have little to no synergy with the rest of the deck.
Since you said, that the deck has problems of getting going, if it doesn't find Vannifar, how about adding more Eldritch Evolution? Should allow you to grab her more reliable and/or set-up the combo up on it's own. I searched around and only found Fauna Shaman is a creature and can find a creature (and in theory could set-up a turn 4 kill on it's own). However, the newly spoilered Silhana Wayfinder looks way more juicy, since it is a good two drop either way and digs for the stuff we want while it is a creature. Putting the card on the top of the library is both a pro and a con, pro cause it doesn't get hit of Discard, Con cause you need a turn to get it into hand. However, a good addition in my opinion, specially since it can be sacced to start the chain, if you have a Teardrop Kami in your deck (grab Exarch, grab Ranger, grab Teardrop Kami + randon 1 drop, cast both, untap Vannifar, sac one drop, grab Scryb Ranger, grab Renegade Rallier, return Ranger, untap Vannifar, grab Angel, blink Scry Ranger, grab Kiki of Ranger of Eos). So basically with that chain, two drop + two mana and Vannifar is a kill, if you have a Teardrop Kami in your deck.
Note: NVM just found Foul Emissary, but that card looks garbage tbh.
Also, looking at older lists the question is, how hard the deck should go all-in on the combo. That answer is mainly metagame dependent imo.
So yeah, pretty stocked to test that deck, although I cannot really test it till February
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Made a list and write-up on building with Vannifar, feedback appreciated!
Given how fast and with aggro decks the current meta is, I'm not a fan of slow-combo Kiki Vannifar builds like yours. I've generally gotten better results punishing opponents with the combo the moment they run out of removal. (If Vannifar survives for a turn against removal-heavy, slower decks, I search for combo protection first, then combo off next turn.) I know my build is going into a more explosive and less resilient direction, and there are still decks that are faster than mine that I cannot punish fast or well enough pre-board (UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, Gx Tron). I'm still surprised how good this deck is against midrange decks, though.
Made a list and write-up on building with Vannifar, feedback appreciated!
Given how fast and with aggro decks the current meta is, I'm not a fan of slow-combo Kiki Vannifar builds like yours. I've generally gotten better results punishing opponents with the combo the moment they run out of removal. (If Vannifar survives for a turn against removal-heavy, slower decks, I search for combo protection first, then combo off next turn.) I know my build is going into a more explosive and less resilient direction, and there are still decks that are faster than mine that I cannot punish fast or well enough pre-board (UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, Gx Tron). I'm still surprised how good this deck is against midrange decks, though.
Just found and took a look through your list, it's definitely the most well-crafted combo list I've seen so far. I do very much like the direction of your list, a few very solid innovations in there like the Hanweir Battlements. Your list definitely looks like it has a lot more game than all the Saheeli lists I've seen so far which I've used to base my judgement on the combo lists so far, I'd very much like to give this style a go. How do you feel with no Path in the main, do you feel it's a necessity to slow down the decks a bit faster than us? Also curious on how far to take the blue splash, I really want to get in with Deputy of Detention and such, but it feels very painful to be doing 4 color with a RRR card as your splash color.
Made a list and write-up on building with Vannifar, feedback appreciated!
Given how fast and with aggro decks the current meta is, I'm not a fan of slow-combo Kiki Vannifar builds like yours. I've generally gotten better results punishing opponents with the combo the moment they run out of removal. (If Vannifar survives for a turn against removal-heavy, slower decks, I search for combo protection first, then combo off next turn.) I know my build is going into a more explosive and less resilient direction, and there are still decks that are faster than mine that I cannot punish fast or well enough pre-board (UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, Gx Tron). I'm still surprised how good this deck is against midrange decks, though.
Just found and took a look through your list, it's definitely the most well-crafted combo list I've seen so far. I do very much like the direction of your list, a few very solid innovations in there like the Hanweir Battlements. Your list definitely looks like it has a lot more game than all the Saheeli lists I've seen so far which I've used to base my judgement on the combo lists so far, I'd very much like to give this style a go. How do you feel with no Path in the main, do you feel it's a necessity to slow down the decks a bit faster than us? Also curious on how far to take the blue splash, I really want to get in with Deputy of Detention and such, but it feels very painful to be doing 4 color with a RRR card as your splash color.
I'd only maindeck removal if the meta tilts hard towards decks that pressure me into including it (e.g. UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, maybe Dredge, maybe Humans except this deck usually curbstomps them through their hate in Game 1). I'd rather maindeck Incubation // Incongruity instead, though, as it digs for creatures when I don't really need removal, and this can race most decks. Several of the creatures that ruin our game plan only do so because of their abilities and not their size (e.g. Thing in the Ice, Meddling Mage, Linvala, Devoted Druid), so turning them into vanilla 3/3's is often sufficient.
I suspect Deceiver Exarch's enabled corner cases make it worth the blue splash over just using Village Bell-Ringer instead (e.g. effectively cost 2 mana, tap opposing attacker, ruin opponent's Turn 2 by tapping their land when you're on the play and you play a mana dork on Turn 1). At this point, you may as well go further with the blue splash, and Glen Elendra Archmage is excellent combo protection that doubles as spell-based combo hate and an anti-board wipe. My mana base is indeed painful, though.
To the guys that are long-time Kiki-Chord players... can you share what you think about the Vannifar? I know it has it's own thread right now, but I do just love Kiki-chord decks in general. Questions I have right now:
1. Do you think Vannifar does anything?
2. If yes, do you see it alongside Chord, Evo, both or neither?
3. If no, how is kiki-chord without Vannifar right now?
I just played 10 matches on MODO (obviously without Vannifar) and went 5-0 into 2-3 in the friendly leagues. I really liked having both chord and evo, as both are good in different places. Is that the norm these days?
3x Duskwatch Recruiter MB gives card advantage for grindy matchups, and can also provide sweet ramp. 3x Scooze MB gives value against a lot of decks. Thrun can hit the board on T3 reliably, surprising a lot of decks G1.
This is my first real modern deck I've put in practise with and I'm considering purchasing it in paper. What do you guys think? I'm loving it, it's a nice mix of aggro, tempo and combo in my favourite colour mix. But is the new Vannifar combo deck just better?
I feel like swapping for black loses you too much. Losing Resto, Voice, Pridemage, Rallier Knight of Autumn and a lot of the sideboard seems like far too steep a price to gain Trophy and... Grim Flayer?
1) The deck usually plays enough value stuff/trains (Voice, Finks (if Evolution), Resto, Witness, Tracker,...) so it usually should beat out other midrange/value decks, especially due to the access to silver bullets (if included)
2) The deck is decent against control due to value trains and especially Voice
3) The deck struggles against things, which go above (Valakut, Tron, somewhat Eldrazie), is faster (combo) or abuses something (graveyard, KCI)
Since the decks in the (3) category can be tackled by different creature based hate cards (Magus of the Moon, Thalia, Kataki, Kambal,...) which are mostly in the 2-3 CMC slot, why not go the Evolution route to get a decent match-up against them?
This would basically mean: 6-7 Bird effects, 6-7 Evolution, 2 CMC cards you want to sac (or generate value of some sort) a lot of silver bullets, which are decent on their own (Thalia, Kambal, Magus, Revoker, Linvala) combined with the normal remaining spell suite.
However, would an approach like this even work and the more important question: What hate cards/colour combination to play?
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Linvala does nowadays nothing, the only relevant deck she is good against is Devoted Druid. Swap her for Phyrexian Revoker which also turns of the combo, is bonkers vs KCI (turns of KCI itself, EE and Spellbomb) while still being decent against a lot of other decks (UWx Control -> PW/Search, Tron -> Maps, PW, O-Stone; Humans -> Vial (still somewhat decent); Jund, Affinity,...). That card is just better imo.
The question is not that an overload of silver bullet makes the deck worse, the question is, which silver bullets are good enough on their own to see play, so that they are not that big of an liability.
Loaming Shaman is great vs Dredge, but sucks otherwise. Hence, I would not play him atm. Yixlid Jailer does a better job at keeping Dredge down (since it just says nope to everything they can do and they only have 3 Conflegarates to kill it) while not being that big of an commitment than Loaming Shaman (less mana intensive). Would I play that card MD? Probably not, as long as there is not a huge Dredge share running around. Remorseful Cleric is the "bridge" here, a decent 2 drop (cause it flies) while still being relevant against Dredge, so you can play him MD without a problem (and re-use him with Witness).
What about Knight of Autumn, which in worse case is a mediocre beater (4/3 for 3)? It gives a MD Naturalize or life gain against burn, which both matter a lot in the current format.
Hence, if I look for example at the list posted above, who runs the following "silver bullets":
- Remorseful Cleric
- Lone Missionary
- Selfless Spirit
- Magus of the Moon
- Scab- Clan Berseker
- Goblin Chainwhirler
- Runic Armasaur
- Shalai, Voice of Plenty
- Acidi Slime
- Revillark
- Courser of Kruphix
- Tireless Tracker
- "Ajani" (not tutorable)
There are already a lot of silver bullets MD (be it utility (Shalai, Courser or Tracker) or "hate" (basically rest), which are not that great in most match-ups but still serviceable in most of them.
You could run Knight of Autumn above Missionary, which gives you a MD Shatter (and thus lessens the need of Slime MD (I know it is mainly here for the LD aspect with Resto Angle for Tron which I never liked cause it is so darn clunky), Kambal above Scab-Clan Berseker (who doesn't require the attack step), Revoker above Runic Armassaur and so on.
So, which Silver Bullets have a big enough impact in the desired match-ups while not sucking otherwise? Finding those few might be the solution to the formular imo.
But than again, before that the question of the given metagame needs to be answered and I would propose, that we (if you would want) try to find a couple of good cards for each match-up. Than it doesn't really matter how the metagame shifts, cause you can just look up the list and adapt your list accordantly.
Thoughts?
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/343361062 at 3:18:12.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Ignot Chewer (bad Shatter)
Shriekmaw, Big Game Hunter, Intrepid Hero, Fleshbeg Marauder and co
Archangle of Tithe (bonkers vs Humans, Spirits and Dredge btw)
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Glen Elendra Archmage
Melira, Sylvok Outcast (If Infect would return)
Kitesail Freebooter Small Sin Collector
Keranos, God of Storms (vs Control)
Non tutorable stuff:
Bant Charm
Otherwise, great list!
And now I just have to fiddle together a list
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
my list
1x Arid Mesa
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Flooded Strand
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Forest
2x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Temple Garden
3x Plains
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Inspiring Vantage
1x Marsh Flats
// non-creatures
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Chord of Calling
3x Eldritch Evolution
4x Path to Exile
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Eternal Witness
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Knight of Autumn
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Magus of the Moon
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Restoration Angel
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Spellskite
2x Tireless Tracker
4x Voice of Resurgence
1x Blood Moon
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Damping Sphere
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Fiery Justice
1x Flame Slash
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Ravenous Trap
1x Spellskite
1x Stony Silence
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Forest
2x Plains
1x Gavony Township
3x Horizon Canopy
Creatures: 30
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Heirarch
3x Voice of Resurgence
1x Remorseful Cleric
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Knight of Autumn
2x Eternal Witness
1x Renegade Rallier
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4x Restoration Angel
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Thragtusk
3x Path to Exile
4x Eldritch Evolution
2x Fiery Justice
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Damping Sphere
1x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
2x Settle the Wreckage
1x Worship
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Gaddock Teeg
It mainboards only the widest reaching and most impactful hatebears, and aims to play a value/beatdown game with a lot of lifegain and graveyard recursion. Leaning on a playset of Restos and using Evo as my sole tutor makes me much more able to combo off as well, to punish uninteractive or tapped out opponents. I'd say my wins are somewhere around 50/50 split between beatdown and combo kills.
In terms of sideboard, there's a lot there that can't be tutored for. I already have tutorable grave hate in the main, so I'm happy running Rest in Peace for it's sheer power in the side. Mostly the side is noncreature spells that ruin matchups for certain decks, with a couple of cards that can be tutored that make the gane very difficult for certain decks. I'm a particular fan of Settle the Wreckage and Cataclysmic Gearhulk - in the latter case, the decks it is best against don't have s way of interacting with it, and it effectively guarantees you being ahead on board after it resolves.
Any comments or questions are welcome
I was wondering where to put Prime Speaker Vannifar variants!
Here's my current, combo-centric build so far:
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Field of Ruin
1 Gavony Township
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Restoration Angel
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Seedcradle Witch
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Eternal Witness
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Militia Bugler
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Spellskite
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Deputy of Detention
2 Chord of Calling
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Negate
1 Path to Exile
2 Fiery Justice
Vannifar can turn darn near any board state involving at least one other creature into the combo the turn she loses summoning sickness, so I think Vannifar builds are viable. I've had access to a Turn 4 combo so many times. (So many decks have insta-killed Vannifar, though.) This deck has some trouble getting going if it never sees Vannifar, though.
I've comboed off with Vannifar and a 1-drop so, so often in testing that Scryb Ranger and Renegade Rallier are definitely staying.
I haven't comboed off from a 0-drop, a 2-drop not named Scryb Ranger, or a 3-drop yet, so I'm not quite sure whether Dryad Arbor or Seedcradle Witch are staying. I have been in situations where the ability to combo off from those board states would have helped, but I didn't have enough resources (mana/Forests). I doubt putting a Teardrop Kami or a second 3-mana untapper in this deck are completely worth it, though.
I'm surprised how often the pump ability of Seedcradle Witch has won games, though. It's won two games so far, so at times, it's not just a combo piece that lets me combo off from a 0-drop/2-drop/3-drop.
The Eldritch Evolution in this deck is supposed to let me combo off faster, but I've comboed off with Vannifar & Chord of Calling twice so far (one with X = 1, another with X = 2). Dang Gx Tron tests and their use of Walking Ballista to kill my 1-drop the turn before I combo. I've also Flashed in Vannifar with Chord once so far.
I'm not quite sure about the mana base. I rarely tutor for Steam Vents, and the fetch-shock base is fairly painful at times, especially since this deck can be Forest-hungry. If I pull Knight of the Reliquary (I haven't tutored for it yet), I'm replacing Field of Ruin with something else. Hanweir Battlements and Minamo have won their fair share of games, though. (Minamo mainly lets me combo off without fearing Bolt by turning a creature into combo protection.)
I made this deck by taking one of my old Kiki Pod decks and modding it from there. Note that Zealous Conscripts and Murderous Redcap were in my old Kiki Pod deck but not this deck. (Glen Elendra Archmage has been a haymaker of a hate bear/combo protection, though.)
The sideboard is very open to change.
Vannifar can notably be tutored for with both Time of Need and Glittering Wish, which may spawn their own brews...too bad some of the best multicoloured haymakers are part black (e.g. Unmoored Ego, Slaughter Games).
Since you said, that the deck has problems of getting going, if it doesn't find Vannifar, how about adding more Eldritch Evolution? Should allow you to grab her more reliable and/or set-up the combo up on it's own. I searched around and only found Fauna Shaman is a creature and can find a creature (and in theory could set-up a turn 4 kill on it's own). However, the newly spoilered Silhana Wayfinder looks way more juicy, since it is a good two drop either way and digs for the stuff we want while it is a creature. Putting the card on the top of the library is both a pro and a con, pro cause it doesn't get hit of Discard, Con cause you need a turn to get it into hand. However, a good addition in my opinion, specially since it can be sacced to start the chain, if you have a Teardrop Kami in your deck (grab Exarch, grab Ranger, grab Teardrop Kami + randon 1 drop, cast both, untap Vannifar, sac one drop, grab Scryb Ranger, grab Renegade Rallier, return Ranger, untap Vannifar, grab Angel, blink Scry Ranger, grab Kiki of Ranger of Eos). So basically with that chain, two drop + two mana and Vannifar is a kill, if you have a Teardrop Kami in your deck.
Note: NVM just found Foul Emissary, but that card looks garbage tbh.
Also, looking at older lists the question is, how hard the deck should go all-in on the combo. That answer is mainly metagame dependent imo.
So yeah, pretty stocked to test that deck, although I cannot really test it till February
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Made a list and write-up on building with Vannifar, feedback appreciated!
Given how fast and with aggro decks the current meta is, I'm not a fan of slow-combo Kiki Vannifar builds like yours. I've generally gotten better results punishing opponents with the combo the moment they run out of removal. (If Vannifar survives for a turn against removal-heavy, slower decks, I search for combo protection first, then combo off next turn.) I know my build is going into a more explosive and less resilient direction, and there are still decks that are faster than mine that I cannot punish fast or well enough pre-board (UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, Gx Tron). I'm still surprised how good this deck is against midrange decks, though.
Just found and took a look through your list, it's definitely the most well-crafted combo list I've seen so far. I do very much like the direction of your list, a few very solid innovations in there like the Hanweir Battlements. Your list definitely looks like it has a lot more game than all the Saheeli lists I've seen so far which I've used to base my judgement on the combo lists so far, I'd very much like to give this style a go. How do you feel with no Path in the main, do you feel it's a necessity to slow down the decks a bit faster than us? Also curious on how far to take the blue splash, I really want to get in with Deputy of Detention and such, but it feels very painful to be doing 4 color with a RRR card as your splash color.
You can read most stuff up in there.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I'd only maindeck removal if the meta tilts hard towards decks that pressure me into including it (e.g. UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, maybe Dredge, maybe Humans except this deck usually curbstomps them through their hate in Game 1). I'd rather maindeck Incubation // Incongruity instead, though, as it digs for creatures when I don't really need removal, and this can race most decks. Several of the creatures that ruin our game plan only do so because of their abilities and not their size (e.g. Thing in the Ice, Meddling Mage, Linvala, Devoted Druid), so turning them into vanilla 3/3's is often sufficient.
I suspect Deceiver Exarch's enabled corner cases make it worth the blue splash over just using Village Bell-Ringer instead (e.g. effectively cost 2 mana, tap opposing attacker, ruin opponent's Turn 2 by tapping their land when you're on the play and you play a mana dork on Turn 1). At this point, you may as well go further with the blue splash, and Glen Elendra Archmage is excellent combo protection that doubles as spell-based combo hate and an anti-board wipe. My mana base is indeed painful, though.
1. Do you think Vannifar does anything?
2. If yes, do you see it alongside Chord, Evo, both or neither?
3. If no, how is kiki-chord without Vannifar right now?
I just played 10 matches on MODO (obviously without Vannifar) and went 5-0 into 2-3 in the friendly leagues. I really liked having both chord and evo, as both are good in different places. Is that the norm these days?
The creatures are aggro enough to pressue decks without the combo, and having the combo is gravy on top. T1 Bird, T2 Strangleroot Geist + Lightning Bolt and T3 Bloodbraid Elf into Gruul Spellbreaker or Bounding Krasis feels good.
3x Duskwatch Recruiter MB gives card advantage for grindy matchups, and can also provide sweet ramp. 3x Scooze MB gives value against a lot of decks. Thrun can hit the board on T3 reliably, surprising a lot of decks G1.
This is my first real modern deck I've put in practise with and I'm considering purchasing it in paper. What do you guys think? I'm loving it, it's a nice mix of aggro, tempo and combo in my favourite colour mix. But is the new Vannifar combo deck just better?
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Strangleroot Geist
1 Eternal Witness
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Bounding Krasis
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Gruul Spellbreaker
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Shaman of the Great Hunt
Land
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Lumbering Falls
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
2 Breeding Pool
2 Island
2 Mountain
3 Forest
1 Echoing Truth
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorcery
3 Eldritch Evolution
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
3 Blood Moon
2 Stubborn Denial
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Negate