After some more tests, here are changes to the above list.
+4 Young Pyromancer, -1 Mountain , -3 Monastery Mentor : We have enough red sources as it is, so no need for the basic Mountain. I really wanted to play Mentor in Modern, but I have to admit Young Pyromancer is better for this deck. Because it costs less, it is easier to Combo with it. And Prowess matters not once we hit the combo.
+1 Fatal Push, +1 Path to Exile, -2 Lightning Bolt : Some diversification in our removals suite to make Meddling Mage's life horrible.
I am tempted to remove Artful Dodge to make room for the 4th Inquisition of Kozilek. But I fear I'll soon regret sending a single infinitely large creature in combat if it can just be chumped block by the smallest creature. Of course, if that happens, I can always attack next turn with INFINITE Tokens of INFINITE power and toughness for SQUARED INFINITE damage (which is, with certainty, the highest damage ever achieved in Magic's history). But this is at the risk of getting sweeped next turn (and Inquisition can't hit any sweepers, except Anger of the Gods).
QUESTION (USERS/MODERATORS) : Does this new deck belongs to another thread? Or does it still qualify to stay in this conversation? It feels very different from Classic JAC, playing no mana dorks (Birds, Fatestitcher, Caryatid), no cantrips (Sleight, Serum, Opt), no Glittering Wish. At least 26 cards are different, and the deck doesn't try to Storm off to win, but go infinite triggers. I don't want to start another thread and be told it belongs here, or continue here and only annoy people interested in Classic JAC.
You’re probably right in your assessment of my brew. But Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls can, alone or together, win games on their own without Ascendency. And Sprout Swarm is not so useless without Ascendency (but I admit it’s definitely better with it) :
T1 Faithless Looting
T2 Young Pyro
T3 Flashback Lingering Souls (now 4 creatures) + EOT Buyback Sprout Swarm (using 3rd land and 4 creatures ; now at 6 creatures)
T4 With 3 lands and 6 creatures in play, you can Buyback Sprout Swarm TWICE, adding 4 creatures in the process, and soon gaining inevitably.
Sylvan Awakening is indeed weak without Ascendency. It may come in as useful vs Control in very long games with 6+ lands. I’ll watch that card.
The manlands you proposed could be useful. But I’m afraid they’ll be a bit slow.
The mana base is surprisingly good. Fetching basics as early as turn 1 makes sense also, thanks to Abundant Growth, which also helps hitting the 3rd and 4th land drop. Faithless Looting and Take Inventory are good at that too. During my testings, 4th land drop on turn 4 was the norm, not the exception.
But I yet have to test the deck in real conditions. I’ll post results as soon as I have them.
Would love some help/feedback; this is a pet project type of deck that I’ve been building on the side but the interaction of the whole deck intrigues me a lot!
I got my inspiration from Sam Pardee's article, Almost There. Like he said, the deck was almost there, but something was missing. As much as I wanted Young Pyromancer, or Monastery Mentor, to be the right card for this deck, I realized it was not the case. Drawing it mid combo was frustrating more often than not, as it doesn't trigger Ascendancy, and isn't triggered by it.
I believe the missing piece Sam was talking about isn't one-drop, but rather Saproling Migration. Go ahead and laught... I, too, was skeptical at first. But it ended up being 100% better than Young Pyromancer in game 1. That game 1 is supposed to be a free win for JAC, and only post-SB do we need a plan B (even Ensnaring Bridge can be bypassed with Wear//Tear or Flesh//Blood). It's a cheap Sorcery, that can be cast with two mana dorks, will trigger Ascendancy, and spawn green tokens (this helps Convoke on Sprout Swarm). It's also possible to pay the Kick cost when you accumulate mana (with multiple dorks, Fatestitcher, Cerulean Wisps, Manamorphose, etc.). I decided to avoid Sylvan Caryatid, and this could be a mistake. But I think Hierarch can fix the mana (almost no need for red), and I prefer to focus on the dorks that only cost one mana, for sake of proper acceleration. Maybe I'll put Caryatid in the SB for the matchups that sport a lot of removals...
Beck//Call, tutored with Glittering Wish, is surprisingly awesome. I ended up tutoring this card more often than Scarscale Ritual. Casting the full price of 8 mana is sometimes possible (drawing four cards in the process). But just casting the 2 mana Beck side is often very fine. That way, each extra dorks you're drawing while you Combo is an extra card, as is Fatestitcher when you Unearth it. Saproling Migration becomes pure card advantage, and is amazing when you Kick it for four tokens and four cards! If you Combo off (with infinite tokens) but can't finish the opponent for some reasons the same turn while Beck is on, be sure to refill your hand to 7 good cards before passing the turn. You’ll be full of ammo if something goes wrong during opponent's turn (like a sweeper).
I've put 4 Young Pyromancer and 2 Stoke the Flames in the SB, to somewhat transform the deck for game 2 and be able to have a win throught Meddling Mage naming Ascendency, or any enchantment hate.
About Sylvan Awakening : it was exciting trying it, but ended up a dead card most of the time. Just not for JAC...
I'm very new to the deck, having playing it on mtgo for 2 weeks and now just finishing to build it in paper. How often do you need a go-wide plan (by the way, if you're generating lots of mana and want to make tokens, something like secure the wastes seems better)? My experience is that if I start to go off (which means I have ascendancy, a dork, and at least 2 cantrips and something to discard) I will be able to execute the plan A. Hate cards can be dealt with glittering wish or reflecting helix (i play 1 MD along 3 abundant growth) or engineered explosives if you play it (i don't). Blockers can be tap with fatestitcher. My only plan B is a Sigarda on the side, to be fetched in case I only draw lands,bu I didn't have to use it yet. I'll post my list later.
Sprout Swarm isn't a go wide plan. Instead of running the risk to fizzle and don't reach lethal with the usual JAC list, this single card allow you to get infinite triggers on Ascendancy. Whatever creatures you have that are not summon sick will have infinite power and thoughness. In that fails, then next turn you attack with the infinite tokens you just created (or re-do the trick on your next turn because you bought back Sprout Swarm and it's still in your hand).
O right, I didn't noticed the buyback. It's interesting. The only caveat is that you need 5 mana and more than 1 dork to start going infinite. The abundant growth /helix also goes infinite, but are 1 cmc spells that also work if you don't have ascendancy yet (helix at the end of opponent turn can bounce hate cards, like meddling mage or damping sphere, allowing you to combo on your turn, and abundant growth at least gives you a draw, while staying in the field until you have the rest of the combo). I guess the sprout swarm must be better if your meta is low on removal.
You still need a mana dork to play Retraction Helix. With 3 mana (pooled, or with lands untapped with Fatestitcher) and 3 creatures (1 mana dork and 1 Saproling Migration), you can go infinite with Sprout Swarm. Or just Kick the Saproling Migration on a mana dork, and voilà. Maybe my take on JAC is not the right one. But it seemed to me, after testing it, that it was less proned to fizzle mid combo. Classic JAC needs to trigger enough times to pump a creature to lethal range. If it can't attack, you also need Glittering Wish to tutor Blood out of the SB. Most of the times, doing all this requires drawing more than half the library. One dork, one Saproling Migration, one Fatestitcher and only one cantrip (in this order) can go infinite with Sprout Swarm on turn 3 (with 3 lands). This means 9 cards, less than a third of what is normally required with JAC.
I admit I may have to put Sylvan Caryatid in there, for removal protection...
Teferi, Time Raveler is a strong protector. No counter or removal while we storm.
You can tutor Saheeli, Sublime Artificer. More resilient than Young Pyromancer and a good option, if you can not win with storm.
Other decks got a bunch of new toys, but I think this deck got a glorious new shot in the arm: Echo of Eons. It practically needs to be discarded, but it provides massive juice mid-combo, and ditch it with Faithless Looting and you can even use it pre-combo. I think it's a 4-of that squeezes out flex slots, but what do you all think?
I've also found tutoring for mana dorks mid-combo with Glittering Wish to actually be good in Echo of Eons builds; I've gone to Hydroform in the wishboard, but Eladamri's Call can tutor for more than just a virtual Fatestitcher.
Other decks got a bunch of new toys, but I think this deck got a glorious new shot in the arm: Echo of Eons. It practically needs to be discarded, but it provides massive juice mid-combo, and ditch it with Faithless Looting and you can even use it pre-combo. I think it's a 4-of that squeezes out flex slots, but what do you all think?
I've also found tutoring for mana dorks mid-combo with Glittering Wish to actually be good in Echo of Eons builds; I've gone to Hydroform in the wishboard, but Eladamri's Call can tutor for more than just a virtual Fatestitcher.
It is hard to tell if Echo of Eons will be a good shot. Can be a dead card (if it is not in the graveyard) and three mana is still a lot. When we combo off and draw Echo of Eons it is bad; if it is in grave we might not have 3 mana left... if it works it is great - but risky. Maybe a 1-off.
Do you really want to tutor mana-dorks mid-combo? Doesn't that interrupt the combo - or at least is potentially doing it?
Other decks got a bunch of new toys, but I think this deck got a glorious new shot in the arm: Echo of Eons. It practically needs to be discarded, but it provides massive juice mid-combo, and ditch it with Faithless Looting and you can even use it pre-combo. I think it's a 4-of that squeezes out flex slots, but what do you all think?
I've also found tutoring for mana dorks mid-combo with Glittering Wish to actually be good in Echo of Eons builds; I've gone to Hydroform in the wishboard, but Eladamri's Call can tutor for more than just a virtual Fatestitcher.
It is hard to tell if Echo of Eons will be a good shot. Can be a dead card (if it is not in the graveyard) and three mana is still a lot. When we combo off and draw Echo of Eons it is bad; if it is in grave we might not have 3 mana left... if it works it is great - but risky. Maybe a 1-off.
Do you really want to tutor mana-dorks mid-combo? Doesn't that interrupt the combo - or at least is potentially doing it?
Don't forget that Jeskai Ascendancy is an absolute looting machine mid-combo, so discarding a drawn Echo of Eons mid-combo is almost trivially easy.
The biggest obstacle to Echo of Eons, IMO, is its 3-mana Flashback cost, but that high cost has bit me while testing surprisingly rarely.
The 1st Echo of Eons absolutely rocks, and I don't think I've ever needed to cast it twice in a game (i.e. the 1st one was enough to win). The 2nd or later Echo of Eons card kinda sucks since it'll get shuffled back by the 1st, but that means it's an easy loot or Scry-off. The 1st is so good that I want Echo of Eons as a 4-of (and I've gone up to 2 Faithless Looting to try to enable it pre-combo).
It's true that tutoring for mana dorks instead of card draw mid-combo can increase my chance of fizzling, but when I've already binned an Echo of Eons, the Echo of Eons has my fizzling chances covered, so I can tutor for a mana dork with confidence.
@Lectrys and the rest of the crew:
I've played a good chunk with this deck, and I always watch streamers with it when it comes on (hoogland being the most regular ascendancy player)... the key to the combo turn is "figuring out what you need", either mana or cards. Adding Hydroform as a manadork wish-target makes so much sense to me! Lectrys, I honestly think its genius! I also wonder how no-one went down that train of thought before, but it is just 1 of those sort of hidden genius mode!
Anyway, the key really is "do I need mana or do i need cards". If you have wish in your hand, you now have the option of both. If you don't need mana, don't grab Hydroform, it's simple really. It'll come up often enough that it'll be worth the slot, almost guarentee it.
On the Echo of Eons point, it's something where my gut instinct was "I probably only want 1". Your testing suggests you only ever want to cast it once too, but want to find it more often. My gut is still that 4 is too many, because more than half the deck loots, and a massive chunk of it does it for a net-zero mana. Although finding it early is nice, it's not critical, and it's a pretty terrible card when you don't have all the pieces to combo (unlike a serum visions or whatever). However, card looks and sounds great!
@Lectrys, can you share your latest list before we go into archive!!!
@Lectrys and the rest of the crew:
I've played a good chunk with this deck, and I always watch streamers with it when it comes on (hoogland being the most regular ascendancy player)... the key to the combo turn is "figuring out what you need", either mana or cards. Adding Hydroform as a manadork wish-target makes so much sense to me! Lectrys, I honestly think its genius! I also wonder how no-one went down that train of thought before, but it is just 1 of those sort of hidden genius mode!
Anyway, the key really is "do I need mana or do i need cards". If you have wish in your hand, you now have the option of both. If you don't need mana, don't grab Hydroform, it's simple really. It'll come up often enough that it'll be worth the slot, almost guarentee it.
On the Echo of Eons point, it's something where my gut instinct was "I probably only want 1". Your testing suggests you only ever want to cast it once too, but want to find it more often. My gut is still that 4 is too many, because more than half the deck loots, and a massive chunk of it does it for a net-zero mana. Although finding it early is nice, it's not critical, and it's a pretty terrible card when you don't have all the pieces to combo (unlike a serum visions or whatever). However, card looks and sounds great!
@Lectrys, can you share your latest list before we go into archive!!!
Hydroform was an old suggestion we old guard batted about for a bit when Ascendancy Storm first became a deck but soon found not worth the slot and ditched. Not even Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time could bring enough consistency to make burning up a Glittering Wish for a mana dork good enough. But Echo of Eons's 7 cards (and habit of shuffling hands into libraries) can bring that consistency (at least from my testing).
My experiences with Ascendancy Storm after they banned the Delve CA cards but before Echo of Eons were not good. Nothing could substitute for Cruise or Dig consistently enough. Among the cheap CA cards I tried include Take Inventory, and too often, I drew into only one copy and fizzled. This is why I want 4 Echo of Eons--I want CA and I want it fast.
Here's my current post-Modern Horizons Ascendancy Storm deck:
I took the mana base, a bunch of the sideboard, and several of the maindeck flex slots from a post-War of the Spark build. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer looks like the most compact midrange plan we've seen in ages (I tried a midrange plan-dense wishboard before with stuff like Siege Rhino, Ajani Vengeant, and Worm Harvest, but man did those cards get expensive to cast). As I've predicted, Teferi, Time Raveler looks great as combo protection and hate bouncing. I'm more used to a more painful mana base with more shocklands, so if this post-WAR mana base with minor adjustments doesn't work out, I'm reverting to my old mana base. Of the maindeck flex slots I've seen, I ended up cutting Silence because Noxious Revival and T3feri do some of its job, but my gut feeling is that I will miss Silence.
I don't have trouble casting Debt to the Deathless as the combo finisher, and not targeting is lovely.
From my experience piloting older Ascendancy Storm builds, I don't get why people run 4 Sleight of Hand over 4 Opt. The instant speed is so darn good at squeezing out every bit of value by continuing to combo off in response to removal.
@Lectrys and the rest of the crew:
I've played a good chunk with this deck, and I always watch streamers with it when it comes on (hoogland being the most regular ascendancy player)... the key to the combo turn is "figuring out what you need", either mana or cards. Adding Hydroform as a manadork wish-target makes so much sense to me! Lectrys, I honestly think its genius! I also wonder how no-one went down that train of thought before, but it is just 1 of those sort of hidden genius mode!
Anyway, the key really is "do I need mana or do i need cards". If you have wish in your hand, you now have the option of both. If you don't need mana, don't grab Hydroform, it's simple really. It'll come up often enough that it'll be worth the slot, almost guarentee it.
On the Echo of Eons point, it's something where my gut instinct was "I probably only want 1". Your testing suggests you only ever want to cast it once too, but want to find it more often. My gut is still that 4 is too many, because more than half the deck loots, and a massive chunk of it does it for a net-zero mana. Although finding it early is nice, it's not critical, and it's a pretty terrible card when you don't have all the pieces to combo (unlike a serum visions or whatever). However, card looks and sounds great!
@Lectrys, can you share your latest list before we go into archive!!!
Hydroform was an old suggestion we old guard batted about for a bit when Ascendancy Storm first became a deck but soon found not worth the slot and ditched. Not even Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time could bring enough consistency to make burning up a Glittering Wish for a mana dork good enough. But Echo of Eons's 7 cards (and habit of shuffling hands into libraries) can bring that consistency (at least from my testing).
My experiences with Ascendancy Storm after they banned the Delve CA cards but before Echo of Eons were not good. Nothing could substitute for Cruise or Dig consistently enough. Among the cheap CA cards I tried include Take Inventory, and too often, I drew into only one copy and fizzled. This is why I want 4 Echo of Eons--I want CA and I want it fast.
Here's my current post-Modern Horizons Ascendancy Storm deck:
I took the mana base, a bunch of the sideboard, and several of the maindeck flex slots from a post-War of the Spark build. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer looks like the most compact midrange plan we've seen in ages (I tried a midrange plan-dense wishboard before with stuff like Siege Rhino, Ajani Vengeant, and Worm Harvest, but man did those cards get expensive to cast). As I've predicted, Teferi, Time Raveler looks great as combo protection and hate bouncing. I'm more used to a more painful mana base with more shocklands, so if this post-WAR mana base with minor adjustments doesn't work out, I'm reverting to my old mana base. Of the maindeck flex slots I've seen, I ended up cutting Silence because Noxious Revival and T3feri do some of its job, but my gut feeling is that I will miss Silence.
I don't have trouble casting Debt to the Deathless as the combo finisher, and not targeting is lovely.
From my experience piloting older Ascendancy Storm builds, I don't get why people run 4 Sleight of Hand over 4 Opt. The instant speed is so darn good at squeezing out every bit of value by continuing to combo off in response to removal.
Interesting list. Tried Echo of Eons now and its just fantastic! If you can cast it, it is always a win.
But I think that your deck is too "slow". With Noble Hierarch and two more copies of Noxious Revival/Engineered Explosives/Summoner's Pact you can storm off at turn 2 or reliable turn 3. Maybe if you are not able to start the storm this early, other decks are either too fast or have you too much in their lock.
I agree that Opt is better than Sleight of Hand. Instant speed can be crucial while storming.
+4 Young Pyromancer, -1 Mountain , -3 Monastery Mentor : We have enough red sources as it is, so no need for the basic Mountain. I really wanted to play Mentor in Modern, but I have to admit Young Pyromancer is better for this deck. Because it costs less, it is easier to Combo with it. And Prowess matters not once we hit the combo.
+1 Fatal Push, +1 Path to Exile, -2 Lightning Bolt : Some diversification in our removals suite to make Meddling Mage's life horrible.
I am tempted to remove Artful Dodge to make room for the 4th Inquisition of Kozilek. But I fear I'll soon regret sending a single infinitely large creature in combat if it can just be chumped block by the smallest creature. Of course, if that happens, I can always attack next turn with INFINITE Tokens of INFINITE power and toughness for SQUARED INFINITE damage (which is, with certainty, the highest damage ever achieved in Magic's history). But this is at the risk of getting sweeped next turn (and Inquisition can't hit any sweepers, except Anger of the Gods).
QUESTION (USERS/MODERATORS) : Does this new deck belongs to another thread? Or does it still qualify to stay in this conversation? It feels very different from Classic JAC, playing no mana dorks (Birds, Fatestitcher, Caryatid), no cantrips (Sleight, Serum, Opt), no Glittering Wish. At least 26 cards are different, and the deck doesn't try to Storm off to win, but go infinite triggers. I don't want to start another thread and be told it belongs here, or continue here and only annoy people interested in Classic JAC.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
T1 Faithless Looting
T2 Young Pyro
T3 Flashback Lingering Souls (now 4 creatures) + EOT Buyback Sprout Swarm (using 3rd land and 4 creatures ; now at 6 creatures)
T4 With 3 lands and 6 creatures in play, you can Buyback Sprout Swarm TWICE, adding 4 creatures in the process, and soon gaining inevitably.
Sylvan Awakening is indeed weak without Ascendency. It may come in as useful vs Control in very long games with 6+ lands. I’ll watch that card.
The manlands you proposed could be useful. But I’m afraid they’ll be a bit slow.
The mana base is surprisingly good. Fetching basics as early as turn 1 makes sense also, thanks to Abundant Growth, which also helps hitting the 3rd and 4th land drop. Faithless Looting and Take Inventory are good at that too. During my testings, 4th land drop on turn 4 was the norm, not the exception.
But I yet have to test the deck in real conditions. I’ll post results as soon as I have them.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Manamorphose
2 Cerulean Wisps
2 Opt
2 Silence
1 Failure // Comply
1 Banishing Knack
1 Retraction Helix
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
3 Abundant Growth
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Fatestitcher
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Glittering Wish
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
2 Botanical Sanctum
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 City of Brass
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Flesh // Blood
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Scarscale Ritual
1 Guttural Response
1 Fiery Justice
1 Hydroform
2 Swan Song
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Fracturing Gust
Would love some help/feedback; this is a pet project type of deck that I’ve been building on the side but the interaction of the whole deck intrigues me a lot!
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Fatestitcher
Spells (28)
3 Cerulean Wisps
4 Opt
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Glittering Wish
3 Manamorphose
3 Saproling Migration
3 Sprout Swarm
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
Lands (18)
1 Breeding Pool
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mana Confluence
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Beck // Call
1 Izzet Charm
1 Scarscale Ritual
1 Wear // Tear
1 Slaughter Games
2 Stoke the Flames
1 Flesh // Blood
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
I got my inspiration from Sam Pardee's article, Almost There. Like he said, the deck was almost there, but something was missing. As much as I wanted Young Pyromancer, or Monastery Mentor, to be the right card for this deck, I realized it was not the case. Drawing it mid combo was frustrating more often than not, as it doesn't trigger Ascendancy, and isn't triggered by it.
I believe the missing piece Sam was talking about isn't one-drop, but rather Saproling Migration. Go ahead and laught... I, too, was skeptical at first. But it ended up being 100% better than Young Pyromancer in game 1. That game 1 is supposed to be a free win for JAC, and only post-SB do we need a plan B (even Ensnaring Bridge can be bypassed with Wear//Tear or Flesh//Blood). It's a cheap Sorcery, that can be cast with two mana dorks, will trigger Ascendancy, and spawn green tokens (this helps Convoke on Sprout Swarm). It's also possible to pay the Kick cost when you accumulate mana (with multiple dorks, Fatestitcher, Cerulean Wisps, Manamorphose, etc.). I decided to avoid Sylvan Caryatid, and this could be a mistake. But I think Hierarch can fix the mana (almost no need for red), and I prefer to focus on the dorks that only cost one mana, for sake of proper acceleration. Maybe I'll put Caryatid in the SB for the matchups that sport a lot of removals...
Beck//Call, tutored with Glittering Wish, is surprisingly awesome. I ended up tutoring this card more often than Scarscale Ritual. Casting the full price of 8 mana is sometimes possible (drawing four cards in the process). But just casting the 2 mana Beck side is often very fine. That way, each extra dorks you're drawing while you Combo is an extra card, as is Fatestitcher when you Unearth it. Saproling Migration becomes pure card advantage, and is amazing when you Kick it for four tokens and four cards! If you Combo off (with infinite tokens) but can't finish the opponent for some reasons the same turn while Beck is on, be sure to refill your hand to 7 good cards before passing the turn. You’ll be full of ammo if something goes wrong during opponent's turn (like a sweeper).
I've put 4 Young Pyromancer and 2 Stoke the Flames in the SB, to somewhat transform the deck for game 2 and be able to have a win throught Meddling Mage naming Ascendency, or any enchantment hate.
About Sylvan Awakening : it was exciting trying it, but ended up a dead card most of the time. Just not for JAC...
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I admit I may have to put Sylvan Caryatid in there, for removal protection...
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
1 Paradise Druid
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fatestitcher
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
3 Cerulean Wisps
2 Faithless Looting
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Noxious Revival
1 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Silence
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Glittering Wish
4 Manamorphose
1 Nagging Thoughts
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Breeding Pool
4 Flooded Strand
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Path to Exile
1 Silence
2 Swan Song
1 Abrade
1 Scarscale Ritual
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Failure // Comply
1 Flesh // Blood
source: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-glittering-jeskai-ascendancy#paper
Teferi, Time Raveler is a strong protector. No counter or removal while we storm.
You can tutor Saheeli, Sublime Artificer. More resilient than Young Pyromancer and a good option, if you can not win with storm.
I've also found tutoring for mana dorks mid-combo with Glittering Wish to actually be good in Echo of Eons builds; I've gone to Hydroform in the wishboard, but Eladamri's Call can tutor for more than just a virtual Fatestitcher.
It is hard to tell if Echo of Eons will be a good shot. Can be a dead card (if it is not in the graveyard) and three mana is still a lot. When we combo off and draw Echo of Eons it is bad; if it is in grave we might not have 3 mana left... if it works it is great - but risky. Maybe a 1-off.
Do you really want to tutor mana-dorks mid-combo? Doesn't that interrupt the combo - or at least is potentially doing it?
Don't forget that Jeskai Ascendancy is an absolute looting machine mid-combo, so discarding a drawn Echo of Eons mid-combo is almost trivially easy.
The biggest obstacle to Echo of Eons, IMO, is its 3-mana Flashback cost, but that high cost has bit me while testing surprisingly rarely.
The 1st Echo of Eons absolutely rocks, and I don't think I've ever needed to cast it twice in a game (i.e. the 1st one was enough to win). The 2nd or later Echo of Eons card kinda sucks since it'll get shuffled back by the 1st, but that means it's an easy loot or Scry-off. The 1st is so good that I want Echo of Eons as a 4-of (and I've gone up to 2 Faithless Looting to try to enable it pre-combo).
It's true that tutoring for mana dorks instead of card draw mid-combo can increase my chance of fizzling, but when I've already binned an Echo of Eons, the Echo of Eons has my fizzling chances covered, so I can tutor for a mana dork with confidence.
I've played a good chunk with this deck, and I always watch streamers with it when it comes on (hoogland being the most regular ascendancy player)... the key to the combo turn is "figuring out what you need", either mana or cards. Adding Hydroform as a manadork wish-target makes so much sense to me! Lectrys, I honestly think its genius! I also wonder how no-one went down that train of thought before, but it is just 1 of those sort of hidden genius mode!
Anyway, the key really is "do I need mana or do i need cards". If you have wish in your hand, you now have the option of both. If you don't need mana, don't grab Hydroform, it's simple really. It'll come up often enough that it'll be worth the slot, almost guarentee it.
On the Echo of Eons point, it's something where my gut instinct was "I probably only want 1". Your testing suggests you only ever want to cast it once too, but want to find it more often. My gut is still that 4 is too many, because more than half the deck loots, and a massive chunk of it does it for a net-zero mana. Although finding it early is nice, it's not critical, and it's a pretty terrible card when you don't have all the pieces to combo (unlike a serum visions or whatever). However, card looks and sounds great!
@Lectrys, can you share your latest list before we go into archive!!!
Hydroform was an old suggestion we old guard batted about for a bit when Ascendancy Storm first became a deck but soon found not worth the slot and ditched. Not even Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time could bring enough consistency to make burning up a Glittering Wish for a mana dork good enough. But Echo of Eons's 7 cards (and habit of shuffling hands into libraries) can bring that consistency (at least from my testing).
My experiences with Ascendancy Storm after they banned the Delve CA cards but before Echo of Eons were not good. Nothing could substitute for Cruise or Dig consistently enough. Among the cheap CA cards I tried include Take Inventory, and too often, I drew into only one copy and fizzled. This is why I want 4 Echo of Eons--I want CA and I want it fast.
Here's my current post-Modern Horizons Ascendancy Storm deck:
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Waterlogged Grove
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Flooded Strand
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fatestitcher
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Glittering Wish
4 Echo of Eons
4 Serum Visions
4 Opt
4 Manamorphose
3 Cerulean Wisps
2 Faithless Looting
1 Abundant Growth
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Noxious Revival
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Scarscale Ritual
1 Debt to the Deathless
1 Hydroform
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Failure // Comply
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Swan Song
1 Path to Exile
1 Abrade
3 Leyline of Sanctity
I took the mana base, a bunch of the sideboard, and several of the maindeck flex slots from a post-War of the Spark build. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer looks like the most compact midrange plan we've seen in ages (I tried a midrange plan-dense wishboard before with stuff like Siege Rhino, Ajani Vengeant, and Worm Harvest, but man did those cards get expensive to cast). As I've predicted, Teferi, Time Raveler looks great as combo protection and hate bouncing. I'm more used to a more painful mana base with more shocklands, so if this post-WAR mana base with minor adjustments doesn't work out, I'm reverting to my old mana base. Of the maindeck flex slots I've seen, I ended up cutting Silence because Noxious Revival and T3feri do some of its job, but my gut feeling is that I will miss Silence.
I don't have trouble casting Debt to the Deathless as the combo finisher, and not targeting is lovely.
From my experience piloting older Ascendancy Storm builds, I don't get why people run 4 Sleight of Hand over 4 Opt. The instant speed is so darn good at squeezing out every bit of value by continuing to combo off in response to removal.
Interesting list. Tried Echo of Eons now and its just fantastic! If you can cast it, it is always a win.
But I think that your deck is too "slow". With Noble Hierarch and two more copies of Noxious Revival/Engineered Explosives/Summoner's Pact you can storm off at turn 2 or reliable turn 3. Maybe if you are not able to start the storm this early, other decks are either too fast or have you too much in their lock.
I agree that Opt is better than Sleight of Hand. Instant speed can be crucial while storming.
Leyline of Sanctity will be reprinted. Hopefully the price drops so a playset is affordable.
What do you guys think about Veil of Summer? Combo- and discard-Protection. Maybe for Sideboard?