Went 6-3 at my PTQ today. Beat Ad Naus, two Twin decks, UWR Control, Burn, and Jund, and lost to two more Twin decks and Melira Pod. Started 5-1, but then made a stupid mistake (not seeing a Serum Visions in my graveyard, causing a missed PA trigger that eventually allowed him to counter a lethal Bolt). I then had two lopsided natches, beating Twin and losing to Melira Pod. The losses made me wonder why we don't sideboard Torpor Orb.
6-3 is still pretty reasonable in my opinion. I'm mostly curious about the ad nauseum matchup you had. I always have issues beating it. The reason I believe we don't side torpor orb is because it doesn't straight up win us the matchup. Whereas blood moon and empty the warrens can, and so can lightning bolt. However if twin stays as popular as it is I could see side boarding at least two. That's the main matchup it really does anything though. Pod can usually deal with it quite easily.
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Against Ad Naus, you just have to combo as fast as possible g1. They don't interact with you much, so Blood Moon should do the trick.
I was mainly disappointed about going 6-3 because I would have finished 8th in the Swiss if I'd won. Four of the guys I tested with made top 8 (though, sadly, none with Storm), and one is playing in the finals as I write this, so it isn't too bad.
One of the guys from my LGS, who played Storm, ran an interesting sideboard. It had three copies of Flame Slash, as well as Swan Song and Pact of Negation. I think it's probably something to look into.
Went 6-3 at my PTQ today. Beat Ad Naus, two Twin decks, UWR Control, Burn, and Jund, and lost to two more Twin decks and Melira Pod.
Did the Burn deck you beat had maindeck Eidolon of the Great Revels?
I found it very hard to beat them when they started to show up in maindecks of two people in my small LGS.
swan song is good at being able to cheaply protect your combo when you go off. flame slash is a response to eidolon of rhetoric. i went 4-3 at GP boston, with losses to affinity, zoo, and pod. the pod match was a good game, but the two aggressive matchups really showed the weakness of my fetchless mana base. the deck thinning didnt make any difference, but the pain i took off of mana confluence was terribad. G3 of my elmination round against an aussie pro tour player, i took so much damage from my confluences that even though i had him dead on board to an army of goblins, he had a one out in cranial plating and he drew it last turn.
still overall happy with the deck, think if i had fetchlands i would have won 1 or 2 of those matchups and been able to make a push for day 2.
Burn with main deck eidolon is usually pretty difficult, the only way I've beaten it is an early grapeshot taking four(sometimes more).
If you are just trying to protect your combo I don't know why you wouldn't just run dispel instead of swan song. And flame slash in the board instead of a few bolts doesn't seem awful, usually your bolts just point at troublesome creatures anyways.
Edit: I've considered running wear tear out of the board because of its versatility
1st round against pod, combo'd him off game 1, game 2 he durressed my echoing truth and landed eidolon of rhetoric, game 3 he outraced my goblins. after this matchup i felt like having some number of flame slash, and rightly realized that empty the warrens doesnt stack up well against finks, so i porbably should have just tried to answer eidolon and combo off.
0-1
round 2 i played against tron, first game she blew up my ascension with karn, but i had a backup and managed to go off in one turn thanks to desperate ravings. game 2 she mulliganed to 4 and despited having 2 relics, could never get her mana going.
1-1
round 3 i played against UR twin, very harrowing match, both games i needed him to fade a land for one turn so that i could combo before he could, both games he obliged. wasnt running many counterspells so it was really just a race.
2-1
round 4 i played against naya zoo... here was a matchup where not running fetches hurt me, i just took to much damage from my lands so he could kill me before i could set up the combo. really wasnt competitive, especially game 2 where i drew double mana confluence.
2-2
round 5 i played against tron again, game one he showed lack of knowledge on the matchup as he minused karn on a land instead of my one counter ascension, which carried me through. game 2 he had t3 tron and i kept a bad hand. game 3 he mulled to 5 and despite getting turn 3 tron, could never find a fatty to play with all the mana.
3-2
round 6 i played against affinity, which is always a race. game one on the play i got him one turn before i died. game 2 he had one of the fastest starts ive seen out of that deck, i never got a third turn. game 3 my curve was something like t2 goblin, t3 empty for 10, t4 shatterstorm. cool guy, we chatted afterwards about the matchup and what sideboard cards were good (he wasnt a fan of empty the warrens).
4-2
round 7 i played against a pro tour Australian who was also on affinity, in what would be my final match. really awesome guy who played the game extremely well. g1 his hand was somewhat slow and i went off on turn 4, ending the game at 1 life. game 2 i played a t3 shatterstorm but had no gas afterwards and he rebuilt his board. g3 was one of the closest games of magic ive played in a while.... took exactly one point of damage too much from my lands. i managed to create an early army of goblins and had him dead in a few turns. he played towards his only out, a topdecked plating, and managed to equip it on a signal pest i couldnt chump and swing for exactly lethal.... darn you mana confluence! nevertheless i was impressed by his ability to recognize the opening and play to his out, wished him the best, and packed up to drive home
4-3
so overall the lack of fetches didnt destroy the deck. i think against pod it would have been a loss regardless because i incorrectly sideboarded. against zoo it might have bought me a turn i needed, but im not sure it would ahve done so 2/3 games. against affinity though, it definitely showed its weakness. for reference here is the list i ran
That's exactly how I lost game 1 of my win-and-in at the PTQ I went to. If I'd been able to tap Shivan Reef for blue mana, I would have won, but I couldn't because I was at 1 life.
Why aren't you running Blood Moon in the sideboard? It's good against Tron and any three-color deck.
That's exactly how I lost game 1 of my win-and-in at the PTQ I went to. If I'd been able to tap Shivan Reef for blue mana, I would have won, but I couldn't because I was at 1 life.
Why aren't you running Blood Moon in the sideboard? It's good against Tron and any three-color deck.
i think there was a situation a few turns earlier where i could have tapped differently to avoid one damage. im not positive at that point in the grind i was on autopilot
i have 3 of them, but without fetches i only have 3 islands in the deck, so i cant function with bloodmoon either! so i had to take them out for the weekend.
horrible, but i didnt get paired against any control decks where they could help. only real target i saw all day was eidolon of rhetoric, but he wasnt cast, he was podded into play so it wouldnt have mattered.
Blood moon without fetches is pretty sketchy but if you are on the warrens plan you can still probably function OK before the moon, or go off before it hits. In my testing swan song has been awful.
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I'd love to write a tournament report but sadly can't because I'm on my phone.. I went to gp Boston finished day one at 7-2 but did real bad on Sunday finishing 9-5-1 in 191st place do no cash. I punted a few games real hard, a little more play tune with the deck I think it could've been special. My losses game to affinity once, burn twice, rock, and blue black control. List was stock but I cut one empty and one blood moon for those illusory angels. They were good but they were only good in games I was already going to win do they should be something else. I think I want the empty back for sure, then maybe +1 echoing truth?
Edit: one other change from finkels 75 is I run 1 steam vent over 1 shivan reef. Couldn't bring myself to run more fetches than fetchables. And there's a slight chance I want to go down to 15 lands but it seems too greedy so idk
I would never run less than three EtW because you really want them on turn two or three but you only want one. I wouldn't mind a second echoing truth in the board, maybe a flame slash or two. Thanks for the info on the angel.
@ligaco I don't see how recall is any better. Even if you recall a few things on turn two you've still really only bought yourself a turn, or if you play it later they can just replay the important artifacts. Shatterstorm will break them and generally gives you around 2-5 turns which should be plenty to win. I could see it in place of one, but would prefer to run the full 3 storms.
@Ghost Empire Yes. Generally you want blue fetches because that is your most common turn one fetch, however an arid mesa will deal you less damage on average than a city of brass.
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What are people's thoughts on cutting Shivan Reef for more fetches and fetch targets? It's easily the worst land in the deck, and loading up on fetches reduces the chance of fizzling.
What are people's thoughts on cutting Shivan Reef for more fetches and fetch targets? It's easily the worst land in the deck, and loading up on fetches reduces the chance of fizzling.
I think Shivan Reef is better than Arid Mesa, and arguably as good as Misty. The life loss really doesn't hit that hard. You should go off turn 5 at the latest. If you play it turn 1 and tap it for colored mana every turn, that's only 5 damage. Fetching for an untapped Steam Vents is 3 life, and you only have 4 of them. A turn 5 Shivan Reef is better than a turn 5 Arid Mesa or Misty, imo. Plus, it can tap for colorless without loss of life, which is relevant a lot of the time.
I have tried 4 vents, 4 misty, 4 tarn, 3 island, 1 mountain. It isnt awful and almost no different than than the reefs. I have had a hand full of shocks which hurts about the same as 2 shivan reefs. I dont think there is much of a difference. Most people run 7 fetches anyways so the one extra fetch doesn't make a huge thinning difference.
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Standard - AETHERFLUX RESERVOIR????
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UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
I was mainly disappointed about going 6-3 because I would have finished 8th in the Swiss if I'd won. Four of the guys I tested with made top 8 (though, sadly, none with Storm), and one is playing in the finals as I write this, so it isn't too bad.
One of the guys from my LGS, who played Storm, ran an interesting sideboard. It had three copies of Flame Slash, as well as Swan Song and Pact of Negation. I think it's probably something to look into.
Did the Burn deck you beat had maindeck Eidolon of the Great Revels?
I found it very hard to beat them when they started to show up in maindecks of two people in my small LGS.
still overall happy with the deck, think if i had fetchlands i would have won 1 or 2 of those matchups and been able to make a push for day 2.
If you are just trying to protect your combo I don't know why you wouldn't just run dispel instead of swan song. And flame slash in the board instead of a few bolts doesn't seem awful, usually your bolts just point at troublesome creatures anyways.
Edit: I've considered running wear tear out of the board because of its versatility
UBR TES
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UBWR Ad nauseam
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RWNorin Sisters
BWTokens
1st round against pod, combo'd him off game 1, game 2 he durressed my echoing truth and landed eidolon of rhetoric, game 3 he outraced my goblins. after this matchup i felt like having some number of flame slash, and rightly realized that empty the warrens doesnt stack up well against finks, so i porbably should have just tried to answer eidolon and combo off.
0-1
round 2 i played against tron, first game she blew up my ascension with karn, but i had a backup and managed to go off in one turn thanks to desperate ravings. game 2 she mulliganed to 4 and despited having 2 relics, could never get her mana going.
1-1
round 3 i played against UR twin, very harrowing match, both games i needed him to fade a land for one turn so that i could combo before he could, both games he obliged. wasnt running many counterspells so it was really just a race.
2-1
round 4 i played against naya zoo... here was a matchup where not running fetches hurt me, i just took to much damage from my lands so he could kill me before i could set up the combo. really wasnt competitive, especially game 2 where i drew double mana confluence.
2-2
round 5 i played against tron again, game one he showed lack of knowledge on the matchup as he minused karn on a land instead of my one counter ascension, which carried me through. game 2 he had t3 tron and i kept a bad hand. game 3 he mulled to 5 and despite getting turn 3 tron, could never find a fatty to play with all the mana.
3-2
round 6 i played against affinity, which is always a race. game one on the play i got him one turn before i died. game 2 he had one of the fastest starts ive seen out of that deck, i never got a third turn. game 3 my curve was something like t2 goblin, t3 empty for 10, t4 shatterstorm. cool guy, we chatted afterwards about the matchup and what sideboard cards were good (he wasnt a fan of empty the warrens).
4-2
round 7 i played against a pro tour Australian who was also on affinity, in what would be my final match. really awesome guy who played the game extremely well. g1 his hand was somewhat slow and i went off on turn 4, ending the game at 1 life. game 2 i played a t3 shatterstorm but had no gas afterwards and he rebuilt his board. g3 was one of the closest games of magic ive played in a while.... took exactly one point of damage too much from my lands. i managed to create an early army of goblins and had him dead in a few turns. he played towards his only out, a topdecked plating, and managed to equip it on a signal pest i couldnt chump and swing for exactly lethal.... darn you mana confluence! nevertheless i was impressed by his ability to recognize the opening and play to his out, wished him the best, and packed up to drive home
4-3
so overall the lack of fetches didnt destroy the deck. i think against pod it would have been a loss regardless because i incorrectly sideboarded. against zoo it might have bought me a turn i needed, but im not sure it would ahve done so 2/3 games. against affinity though, it definitely showed its weakness. for reference here is the list i ran
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Pyromancer Ascension
3 Past in Flames
2 Grapeshot
recursion
3 Desperate Ravings
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
4 Mana Confluence
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Empty the Warrens
3 Shatterstorm
2 Swan Song
2 Echoing Truth
1 Defense Grid
Why aren't you running Blood Moon in the sideboard? It's good against Tron and any three-color deck.
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
i think there was a situation a few turns earlier where i could have tapped differently to avoid one damage. im not positive at that point in the grind i was on autopilot
i have 3 of them, but without fetches i only have 3 islands in the deck, so i cant function with bloodmoon either! so i had to take them out for the weekend.
horrible, but i didnt get paired against any control decks where they could help. only real target i saw all day was eidolon of rhetoric, but he wasnt cast, he was podded into play so it wouldnt have mattered.
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
Edit: one other change from finkels 75 is I run 1 steam vent over 1 shivan reef. Couldn't bring myself to run more fetches than fetchables. And there's a slight chance I want to go down to 15 lands but it seems too greedy so idk
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Steam Vents
2 Shivan Reef
3 Island
1 Mountain
My land base.
I would never run less than three EtW because you really want them on turn two or three but you only want one. I wouldn't mind a second echoing truth in the board, maybe a flame slash or two. Thanks for the info on the angel.
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UBR TNT
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(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
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@Ghost Empire Yes. Generally you want blue fetches because that is your most common turn one fetch, however an arid mesa will deal you less damage on average than a city of brass.
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
I think Shivan Reef is better than Arid Mesa, and arguably as good as Misty. The life loss really doesn't hit that hard. You should go off turn 5 at the latest. If you play it turn 1 and tap it for colored mana every turn, that's only 5 damage. Fetching for an untapped Steam Vents is 3 life, and you only have 4 of them. A turn 5 Shivan Reef is better than a turn 5 Arid Mesa or Misty, imo. Plus, it can tap for colorless without loss of life, which is relevant a lot of the time.
URStorm
URBDelver
RWNorin Sisters
BWTokens
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears