hello everyone, I'm here for a bit of advice.
I've recently bought all the pieces to build this deck, I saw it being played and really enjoy it, even though I haven't personally played it yet.
talking a out modern with my mates one said the other day "no one in their sane mind would play UR storm in the current meta".
do you guys agree with that statement? why?
i've been really excited for quite some time about playing this deck and i've finally got all the pieces for it, that comment really bummed me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I've been out of the mtg scene for a few months now, and I never played at GP level or anything like that, so I'm a little out of the loop to answer your question. I'm also a little biased, because my storm deck is my baby and I'll play it until I die.
With that in mind, I'm of two minds on the subject. First, storm is sort of the eternal modern deck. I'm not sure that I've ever heard of a deck that has persisted in the meta for so long (except maybe "red"), and Storm is the undisputed king of innovating through bans. So by that argument, I want to say that even if storm isn't good now, history tells us that it will probably be playable again sometime in the near future, when a new card is printed or a new innovation is made.
However, this time it's not bans I'm worried about, but sideboards. In the past year we've seen the printing of both Amulet of Safekeeping and Damping Sphere. These are harder to innovate around, because now Storm players aren't restricted by cards we need to take out of our decks, but cards our opponents can bring to the table. I haven't played long enough to know how big of an impact printings like these might have on storm, but my gut reaction is that we're going to have to slow down the deck/sideboard with more anti-hate cards, which definitely puts Storm on the downturn. That's said, the last time I knew where Storm stood in the meta, it was a tier 1 deck... so even if I'm right, and these new printings hurt the deck, it could just be a tier 2 now.
Also your mate mentioned the meta, which I would know nothing about due to my hiatus. The last time I was in touch with the modern meta, lantern control was a new innovation. I don't know if the current popular decks counter storm in some way because I couldn't begin to tell you what they are. But Storm is still remarkably fun to play, even after hundreds of matches, so if you don't care about putting up a high win ratio I think you'll be fine regardless of what the meta looks like
I think possibly he was referring to the amount of chalices of the void with x=1 and graveyard hate that are being played at the moment because of dredge and UR phoenix
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Its not the chalices on 1 you need to worry about, though, that will buy them time and make it harder for you to manipulate your draws is all.
Frankly I think the meta being mostly linear aggro is a ripe field for stormtroopers to harvest. Dredge will sometimes make you count to 26 or 29, but most times they're a sitting duck. The phoenix decks and us are like ships in the night. Tron (and by extension everybody else) has got some new trinkets like Damping Sphere et al, but frankly its a lot easier to deal with low cmc artifacts than a leyline of sanctity, so its not like we're dealing with more difficult hate than before.
The fact that midrange, hand-attacking decks like Jund and Junk are gone actually make life a bit easier. Graveyard hate has and will always be ubiquitous, but I don't find that an issue if you have remands and pieces of the puzzle.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
hello everyone, I'm here for a bit of advice.
I've recently bought all the pieces to build this deck, I saw it being played and really enjoy it, even though I haven't personally played it yet.
talking a out modern with my mates one said the other day "no one in their sane mind would play UR storm in the current meta".
do you guys agree with that statement? why?
i've been really excited for quite some time about playing this deck and i've finally got all the pieces for it, that comment really bummed me.
It's tough out there for storm at the moment, because there's a lot of burn about as well, and that is utterly, totally miserable.
The good news is that you've made a good investment, and if you enjoy the deck then you've spent your money wisely. Look, even if the meta is tough for storm right now, who's to say what it will be like in 6 months? I learned to play storm in a meta that was 45% Burn, 45% GDS, and I think through my decisions and play the deck better because of that.
Good luck learning the greatness of the grapeshot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I think possibly he was referring to the amount of chalices of the void with x=1 and graveyard hate that are being played at the moment because of dredge and UR phoenix
Also this bit:
GY Hate - Pieces of the Puzzle and grapeshot-remand-grapeshot laughs in the face of it.
Chalices - X=2 is a pain, but thats why we have Wipe Away and Shattering Spree.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I think the only things keeping storm from being a clear tier 1 at the moment is burn, and the spike of surgical. But in terms of speed, consistency and raw power it competes with the best. Still, right now unsub-remand grapeshot lines can play around surgical (I like the double unsub against burn, Phoenix and shadow..even humans and spirits), triple empty goes also around gy hate... I see storm totally viable. Maybe a looting ban will turn down dredge and Phoenix a bit making people gravitate towards a different hate, and we would be right back.
By the way, I still need to figure out my burn and Phoenix mu. Against Phoenix lately I've been trying to fight thing in the ice with unsubs, wipe away and repeals, so my non graveyard plan gets better (empty and remand grapeshot). Burn is a mu I don't think we can realistically win without committing 6 sideboard slots, still I would appreciate advice with this list for both mu:
I now own this deck in paper. I am going to be doing a lot of research on this deck, testing, etc over the coming month. I'll share anything & take any advice along the way.
Hi, I would like someone to prove me wrong on this one. I always heard that having a bear in play, 6 Mana and gifts ungiven is a deterministic kill. But I can not find the line, I don't think is possible if I cast it with an empty graveyard and they give me manamorphose and pif in hand.
I would cast manamorphose and pif, going to 1 red, then cast pyretic, desperate and manamorphose again, going up to 6 mana, then pay 3 to play gifts. Is there any gift pile that wins the game from there?
Well actually, I don't see the line either if they give me ritual manamorphose or ritual pif. There is always a choice the opponent can make to stop the chain... Even if they give me ritual ritual, when I cast the second gift from the graveyard, there is still one line to not to make it deterministic, giving the opponent pif and gift from the second pile.
Again, all this counts if your graveyard is empty, and you cast gift with 3 mana on the stack ,otherwise is pretty easy to find a line the opponent cant avoid loosing too, I'd like someone to prove me wrong, I think all those piles we called deterministic where only true if we have at least a ritual in the grave.
Hi, I would like someone to prove me wrong on this one. I always heard that having a bear in play, 6 Mana and gifts ungiven is a deterministic kill. But I can not find the line, I don't think is possible if I cast it with an empty graveyard and they give me manamorphose and pif in hand.
I would cast manamorphose and pif, going to 1 red, then cast pyretic, desperate and manamorphose again, going up to 6 mana, then pay 3 to play gifts. Is there any gift pile that wins the game from there?
Why are you starting with an empty graveyard? How did you get to 6 mana?
Let's go with simple start point: Its turn 3, your opponent didn't kill your turn 2 bear. Let's just say you have 3 lands and made the additional 3 mana from a ritual and manamorphose, and now you cast your gifts, hence meeting the deterministic kill condition - 3 mana floating, bear in play and gifts on stack. Your GY has a ritual and manamorphose. Your storm count is now 3 (ritual, mm, gifts).
gift package: pyretic, despo, mm, pif. say oppo gives you mm+pif. 2 more rituals hit the GY.
GY: 3 x ritual, 1 x mm, 1 x gifts
hand: pif, mm
Cast mm and pif -> storm 5, 2 mana
GY: 3x ritual, 2x mm, 1x gifts, 1x pif
recast: 3x ritual, 2x mm, 1x gifts from GY
storm 11, 10 mana
GY: 1x pif
Flashbacked gifts on stack.
It's pretty flexible at this point, but let me give u an example play-
gift package #2: mm, noxious revival, remand, grapeshot -> oppo puts mm and remand in your hand, noxious and grape hit GY
GY: 1x pif, 1x noxious, 1x grape
hand: mm, remand
Cast mm, remand it, cast mm again
Storm 14, 9 mana
GY: 1x pif, 1x noxious, 1x grape, 1x mm, 1x remand
Flashback PIF -> flashback noxious targeting grapeshot -> flashback mm to draw grapeshot
Storm 17, 6 mana
Grapeshot in hand.
GY: 1x Remand
Cast grapeshot from hand
17 copies of grapeshot targeting opponent plus 1 original
Storm 18, 5 mana
Flashback remand from GY to return your original grapeshot to hand.
Storm 19, 4 mana.
Opponent takes 17 damage. You have grapeshot in your hand and storm count is 19. Cast it again for 20 more damage and win.
The fun part of storm is you have to know how to react to what your opponent chooses. Always float some blue mana, that being said never let yourself run out of red. Note that the above example doesn't even consider what else you might have had apart from gifts. It also assumes all your manamorphose draws are lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Hi, I would like someone to prove me wrong on this one. I always heard that having a bear in play, 6 Mana and gifts ungiven is a deterministic kill. But I can not find the line, I don't think is possible if I cast it with an empty graveyard and they give me manamorphose and pif in hand.
I would cast manamorphose and pif, going to 1 red, then cast pyretic, desperate and manamorphose again, going up to 6 mana, then pay 3 to play gifts. Is there any gift pile that wins the game from there?
Hi, well thanks for your time but you are explaining something different to the question I asked. We all know that having a manamorphose and ritual in the gy solves the issue. My point was that having only 3 Mana and resolving gifts is not enough, you must have also something relevant in the yard (to produce 3 extra mana for the worst case scenario).
I still think this is true, so if maybe you have 6 lands one bear and gifts, after your opponent cracked a relic, mind that you will only win if the opponent gives you the wrong piles.
Hi, I would like someone to prove me wrong on this one. I always heard that having a bear in play, 6 Mana and gifts ungiven is a deterministic kill. But I can not find the line, I don't think is possible if I cast it with an empty graveyard and they give me manamorphose and pif in hand.
I would cast manamorphose and pif, going to 1 red, then cast pyretic, desperate and manamorphose again, going up to 6 mana, then pay 3 to play gifts. Is there any gift pile that wins the game from there?
Hi, well thanks for your time but you are explaining something different to the question I asked. We all know that having a manamorphose and ritual in the gy solves the issue. My point was that having only 3 Mana and resolving gifts is not enough, you must have also something relevant in the yard (to produce 3 extra mana for the worst case scenario).
I still think this is true, so if maybe you have 6 lands one bear and gifts, after your opponent cracked a relic, mind that you will only win if the opponent gives you the wrong piles.
The deterministic kill presumes 2 things - it ignores the draws off mm, but it also presumes u are not being interacted with. If we're talking interaction why not just have the opponent crack the relic with your PIF on the stack? Or how about the opponent has damping sphere or leyline of sanctity?
Your scenario of 6 lands and no graveyard is also unrealistic, and working that scenario out is impractical. how are you still alive? Did you cast 0 cantrips? is the concern a RIP on the field? If you had that much time to sculpt a hand, is it not going to be a remand kill instead of gifts/pif? Why would i want to spend time answering a question that would never be asked of me in reality?
The problems you might want to worry about that actually happen - how can you deal with 1-3 hand discards in your early turns? Can you goldfish a turn 3-4 kill consistently without being interacted with?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I bring it in just because it's an alternate wincon that is less fragile than empty. Putting the birds back in their hand is a nice upside at times.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
4 Scalding
2 Misty
4 island
1 mountain
2 steam vents
4 baral
3 electro
4 opt
4 serum
4 sleight
4 pyretic
4 desperate
4 manamorphose
1 blink of an eye
1 remand
1 unsub
2 grapeshot
1 empty
4 gift
2 pif
Sideboard
4 pieces
2 empty
2 thing
2 bolt
1 abrade
1 shatterstorm
1 gigadrow
1 repeal
1 wipe away
I've recently bought all the pieces to build this deck, I saw it being played and really enjoy it, even though I haven't personally played it yet.
talking a out modern with my mates one said the other day "no one in their sane mind would play UR storm in the current meta".
do you guys agree with that statement? why?
i've been really excited for quite some time about playing this deck and i've finally got all the pieces for it, that comment really bummed me.
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
With that in mind, I'm of two minds on the subject. First, storm is sort of the eternal modern deck. I'm not sure that I've ever heard of a deck that has persisted in the meta for so long (except maybe "red"), and Storm is the undisputed king of innovating through bans. So by that argument, I want to say that even if storm isn't good now, history tells us that it will probably be playable again sometime in the near future, when a new card is printed or a new innovation is made.
However, this time it's not bans I'm worried about, but sideboards. In the past year we've seen the printing of both Amulet of Safekeeping and Damping Sphere. These are harder to innovate around, because now Storm players aren't restricted by cards we need to take out of our decks, but cards our opponents can bring to the table. I haven't played long enough to know how big of an impact printings like these might have on storm, but my gut reaction is that we're going to have to slow down the deck/sideboard with more anti-hate cards, which definitely puts Storm on the downturn. That's said, the last time I knew where Storm stood in the meta, it was a tier 1 deck... so even if I'm right, and these new printings hurt the deck, it could just be a tier 2 now.
Also your mate mentioned the meta, which I would know nothing about due to my hiatus. The last time I was in touch with the modern meta, lantern control was a new innovation. I don't know if the current popular decks counter storm in some way because I couldn't begin to tell you what they are. But Storm is still remarkably fun to play, even after hundreds of matches, so if you don't care about putting up a high win ratio I think you'll be fine regardless of what the meta looks like
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Frankly I think the meta being mostly linear aggro is a ripe field for stormtroopers to harvest. Dredge will sometimes make you count to 26 or 29, but most times they're a sitting duck. The phoenix decks and us are like ships in the night. Tron (and by extension everybody else) has got some new trinkets like Damping Sphere et al, but frankly its a lot easier to deal with low cmc artifacts than a leyline of sanctity, so its not like we're dealing with more difficult hate than before.
The fact that midrange, hand-attacking decks like Jund and Junk are gone actually make life a bit easier. Graveyard hate has and will always be ubiquitous, but I don't find that an issue if you have remands and pieces of the puzzle.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
It's tough out there for storm at the moment, because there's a lot of burn about as well, and that is utterly, totally miserable.
The good news is that you've made a good investment, and if you enjoy the deck then you've spent your money wisely. Look, even if the meta is tough for storm right now, who's to say what it will be like in 6 months? I learned to play storm in a meta that was 45% Burn, 45% GDS, and I think through my decisions and play the deck better because of that.
Good luck learning the greatness of the grapeshot.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Also this bit:
GY Hate - Pieces of the Puzzle and grapeshot-remand-grapeshot laughs in the face of it.
Chalices - X=2 is a pain, but thats why we have Wipe Away and Shattering Spree.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
By the way, I still need to figure out my burn and Phoenix mu. Against Phoenix lately I've been trying to fight thing in the ice with unsubs, wipe away and repeals, so my non graveyard plan gets better (empty and remand grapeshot). Burn is a mu I don't think we can realistically win without committing 6 sideboard slots, still I would appreciate advice with this list for both mu:
4 spirebluff
4 Scalding
2 Misty
4 island
1 mountain
2 steam vents
4 baral
3 electro
4 opt
4 serum
4 sleight
4 pyretic
4 desperate
4 manamorphose
1 remand
2 unsub
2 grapeshot
1 empty
4 gift
2 pif
Sideboard
4 pieces
2 empty
2 thing
2 bolt
1 abrade
1 gigadrowse
1 repeal
1 wipe away
1 shatterstorm
And btw, I see people cutting bears too much...I don't know if I'm the only one feeling like playing an underpowered deck, I don't like going below 5
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I would cast manamorphose and pif, going to 1 red, then cast pyretic, desperate and manamorphose again, going up to 6 mana, then pay 3 to play gifts. Is there any gift pile that wins the game from there?
Again, all this counts if your graveyard is empty, and you cast gift with 3 mana on the stack ,otherwise is pretty easy to find a line the opponent cant avoid loosing too, I'd like someone to prove me wrong, I think all those piles we called deterministic where only true if we have at least a ritual in the grave.
Why are you starting with an empty graveyard? How did you get to 6 mana?
Let's go with simple start point: Its turn 3, your opponent didn't kill your turn 2 bear. Let's just say you have 3 lands and made the additional 3 mana from a ritual and manamorphose, and now you cast your gifts, hence meeting the deterministic kill condition - 3 mana floating, bear in play and gifts on stack. Your GY has a ritual and manamorphose. Your storm count is now 3 (ritual, mm, gifts).
gift package: pyretic, despo, mm, pif. say oppo gives you mm+pif. 2 more rituals hit the GY.
GY: 3 x ritual, 1 x mm, 1 x gifts
hand: pif, mm
Cast mm and pif -> storm 5, 2 mana
GY: 3x ritual, 2x mm, 1x gifts, 1x pif
recast: 3x ritual, 2x mm, 1x gifts from GY
storm 11, 10 mana
GY: 1x pif
Flashbacked gifts on stack.
It's pretty flexible at this point, but let me give u an example play-
gift package #2: mm, noxious revival, remand, grapeshot -> oppo puts mm and remand in your hand, noxious and grape hit GY
GY: 1x pif, 1x noxious, 1x grape
hand: mm, remand
Cast mm, remand it, cast mm again
Storm 14, 9 mana
GY: 1x pif, 1x noxious, 1x grape, 1x mm, 1x remand
Flashback PIF -> flashback noxious targeting grapeshot -> flashback mm to draw grapeshot
Storm 17, 6 mana
Grapeshot in hand.
GY: 1x Remand
Cast grapeshot from hand
17 copies of grapeshot targeting opponent plus 1 original
Storm 18, 5 mana
Flashback remand from GY to return your original grapeshot to hand.
Storm 19, 4 mana.
Opponent takes 17 damage. You have grapeshot in your hand and storm count is 19. Cast it again for 20 more damage and win.
The fun part of storm is you have to know how to react to what your opponent chooses. Always float some blue mana, that being said never let yourself run out of red. Note that the above example doesn't even consider what else you might have had apart from gifts. It also assumes all your manamorphose draws are lands.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Hi, well thanks for your time but you are explaining something different to the question I asked. We all know that having a manamorphose and ritual in the gy solves the issue. My point was that having only 3 Mana and resolving gifts is not enough, you must have also something relevant in the yard (to produce 3 extra mana for the worst case scenario).
I still think this is true, so if maybe you have 6 lands one bear and gifts, after your opponent cracked a relic, mind that you will only win if the opponent gives you the wrong piles.
The deterministic kill presumes 2 things - it ignores the draws off mm, but it also presumes u are not being interacted with. If we're talking interaction why not just have the opponent crack the relic with your PIF on the stack? Or how about the opponent has damping sphere or leyline of sanctity?
Your scenario of 6 lands and no graveyard is also unrealistic, and working that scenario out is impractical. how are you still alive? Did you cast 0 cantrips? is the concern a RIP on the field? If you had that much time to sculpt a hand, is it not going to be a remand kill instead of gifts/pif? Why would i want to spend time answering a question that would never be asked of me in reality?
The problems you might want to worry about that actually happen - how can you deal with 1-3 hand discards in your early turns? Can you goldfish a turn 3-4 kill consistently without being interacted with?
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR