@ Blood Moon decks : they're really nothing to us honestly. When I face opponents that know that I'm on Ad Nauseam, sometimes they don't even bother brining in Blood Moon because it's pretty much useless when we have rocks and we have 8 of them, but most of the time, they only have 2-3 Blood Moon.
The issue I'm having with that particular Blood Moon deck is they run 4 of them main and can get it out as soon as turn 1! That has hosed me when i draw a bunch of temples and blue dig cards.
Let it go. If you're really worried about it, you can pact it and angel's grace, you can run wear//tear, disenchant, or more likely just run a couple of fetches so you can always pentad for 4 under a blood moon. Sounds like you have no experience with the deck and are paying way too much attention to this flash in the plan that doesn't merit any attention. Just learn what hands are keepable in general and then when you face this deck account for what could happen in game 2 or 3 when they try and execute their plan. I have a hard time believing they have a clock that won't let us do anything you want.
After stalling at 60% win rate on MTGO for a while with the deck (solid sample size of 250+ League Matches), I decided to spice things up and tinker with Bring to Light to tackle bad/frustrating matchups (which are in my case Infect, Bloom Titan, Jund/Abzan, and to a lesser extent Death&Taxes).
The list I'm currently brewing looks like a classic AN build, with a more colored manabase (20 lands, featuring 4 City of Brass), and a 4 Bring to Light / 2 Ad Nauseam split. I've seen lists playing 4 AN and 2 BTL (which doesn't seem much better than just playing a bunch of Spoils of the Vault instead of BTL), but I wanted as many BTL as available to tutor for winning silver bullets from the sideboard against bad matchups, allowing me to virtually play 5 copies of this "1-Card-Combo". I'm currently trying Sigarda, host of herons, Melira, sylvok outcast, Slaughter Games, Crumble to Dust and Supreme Verdict.
Here is how I feel about the matchups with this list so far :
Good non-blue matchups :
The list remains just as streamlined against our good non-blue matchups (Affinity, Bogles, Burn, random Aggro...). The 6 copies of AdNauseam keep the T4 kill reliable, and the possibility to drop a random Supreme Verdict from a BTL is sweet.
Traditional bad matchups :
The list is a blast to play against Jund/Abzan. Playing 5 Sigarda and dropping her on T3 from a Prism wins the game on its own. Top decking BTL under a Liliana lock is just as brutal. Sigarda is sweet against D&T too, allowing you to keep land/rocks heavy hand (which are often the key for the matchup) even if you only have a single BTL as combo piece : dropping the angel out of nowhere to stall the game, preventing them from entering the redzone with Thalia, Nightmares, and the like. You then have all of the time you need to rebuild ressources.
Against Bloom Titan and fast combo decks, having a T3 Slaughter Games available is decent, sometimes a turn too late nowadays, but still good at punishing any fumble from the opponent. Against Infect, Bringing Melira to Light is a decisive move that buys a lot of turns
Crumble to Dust is at the moment just icing on the cake to cripple Tron (which I don't really consider as a "bad" matchup), but I'm not sure I actually need the card and could probably use a more relevant slot. BTL doesn't help against a T3 Karn, except when you're on the play with a perfect Prism into BTL
Possibilities are endless with BTL, just choose a matchup you want to dominate and pick the silver bullet accordingly. If Amulet Bloom is everywhere and gives you headache, Aven Mindcensor might be worth considering. If infect has infested your meta, maybe a Spellskite on top of Melira could provide an additional edge.
Blue decks :
By being less able to play at instant speed (due to 4 BTL and only 2 AN), the list looks slightly weaker against blue control decks, but the loss of win rate might be marginal, while the increase against bad matchups looks much more significant (I'm convinced that Jund/Abzan go up all the way from 35/65 to 65/35, no kidding). In the meantime, opponents are not supposed to know the list only plays 2 AN, neither if they actually are in our hand or not at any time, so the mind game stays strong. Also, playtests are actually quite satisfying so far against Twin and Delver thanks to Dromoka and Sigarda (again), who often turn the race into my favor as soon as they land. Casting Sigarda into a hand full of dispel and negate looks sweet, and they both eat Vendilion clique for breakfast
I'm going to play some leagues with the list and will keep you updated with the results!
please keep us updated, this seems very interesting.
Im having problems in my local meta with faster decks. Mainly infect (obviously) burn, kin fiend and naya burn/zoo. Just seems they are a turn faster every time. I bring in the slaughter pacts and holy days but they only help so much.
This is basically my main deck. My side board if different. Anything you guys think I can improve on? I'm pretty anti spoils, is it time to give in and try it out? Any one have win % with and with out it?
Hey guys, I've been having some trouble against Grixis Twin. Does anyone else have problems with this match up? If anyone has any tips for the match up in regards to how to navigate the game or side boarding options it would be much appreciated.
Isn't teferi, mage of zhalfir just better? Still lets you combo with no fear of counters, costs 2 less, plays on opponent's end step so you can untap and win.
I don't like paying 2 life in most matchups. Sure we could just pay the U but most times I'd rather just cantrip. Many times our opponents hands are irrelevant to us so it's just basically a cycle effect. I guess my big question is what do you take out of the deck in order to play probe? I wouldn't want to remove any visions or sleights for this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UBWAd NauseamWBU URStormRU
EDH: BMikaeus the UnhallowedB RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
Hey guys! Buying back into this deck after a hiatus from it... My weakness with the deck was always sideboarding. In the spoils version, what do you typically take out? Excited to join yall. Thanks
Hey guys! Buying back into this deck after a hiatus from it... My weakness with the deck was always sideboarding. In the spoils version, what do you typically take out? Excited to join yall. Thanks
There's tons of sideboard discussion within the last several pages. Togores's tournament reports are an excellent place to start. If a deck doesn't play U removing some if not all the pact of negations is typical. I usually board out a bloom or two against decks where I expect remand. Pentad's out against kolaghan's command or spell snare. I main deck a slaughter pact due to the online/LGS prevalence of main deck spellskite so I remove that if it's not relevant. I usually don't remove cantrips but occasionally remove 1 and it's usually serum visions because sleight of hand is better at finding a turn 1 bloom. I never remove ad naus or grace though I occasionally will sideout a single phyrexian unlife against something like infect. Again, look back at some of the tournament reports to get a better idea.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UBWAd NauseamWBU URStormRU
EDH: BMikaeus the UnhallowedB RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
I find any twin match up very favorable. Basically looking to go off quick with counter protection. Sideboard bring in the leylines. I also have a gigadrowse and esper charm coming in for these match ups.
I find any twin match up very favorable. Basically looking to go off quick with counter protection. Sideboard bring in the leylines. I also have a gigadrowse and esper charm coming in for these match ups.
Are you serious? Leyline of Sanctity against Twin decks? Why would you do that?
Aside from random Inquisitions they might bring in one or two of, what does Leyline accomplish?
In my meta the 2 grixis twin decks run 4 hand disruption in the the main deck with access to 2-4 more after board. It's, worth it....
I find any twin match up very favorable. Basically looking to go off quick with counter protection. Sideboard bring in the leylines. I also have a gigadrowse and esper charm coming in for these match ups.
Are you serious? Leyline of Sanctity against Twin decks? Why would you do that?
Aside from random Inquisitions they might bring in one or two of, what does Leyline accomplish?
In my meta the 2 grixis twin decks run 4 hand disruption in the the main deck with access to 2-4 more after board. It's, worth it....
so you're telling other people how to SB based on your meta, that is not very smart. Most Grixis Twin decks run minimal discard. Please when offering SB help, do so with the intention that people are playing stock decks and don't customize it to your meta, that doesn't help anyone.
@ the Bring to Light deck. Throw in 4 Quicken and the deck is perfect, Kappa
I find any twin match up very favorable. Basically looking to go off quick with counter protection. Sideboard bring in the leylines. I also have a gigadrowse and esper charm coming in for these match ups.
Are you serious? Leyline of Sanctity against Twin decks? Why would you do that?
Aside from random Inquisitions they might bring in one or two of, what does Leyline accomplish?
In my meta the 2 grixis twin decks run 4 hand disruption in the the main deck with access to 2-4 more after board. It's, worth it....
so you're telling other people how to SB based on your meta, that is not very smart. Most Grixis Twin decks run minimal discard. Please when offering SB help, do so with the intention that people are playing stock decks and don't customize it to your meta, that doesn't help anyone.
@ the Bring to Light deck. Throw in 4 Quicken and the deck is perfect, Kappa
He asked for suggestions. I gave him mine. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to do that. My apologies your all mighty. I shall never again. *bows down to king jerk*
I find any twin match up very favorable. Basically looking to go off quick with counter protection. Sideboard bring in the leylines. I also have a gigadrowse and esper charm coming in for these match ups.
Are you serious? Leyline of Sanctity against Twin decks? Why would you do that?
Aside from random Inquisitions they might bring in one or two of, what does Leyline accomplish?
In my meta the 2 grixis twin decks run 4 hand disruption in the the main deck with access to 2-4 more after board. It's, worth it....
so you're telling other people how to SB based on your meta, that is not very smart. Most Grixis Twin decks run minimal discard. Please when offering SB help, do so with the intention that people are playing stock decks and don't customize it to your meta, that doesn't help anyone.
@ the Bring to Light deck. Throw in 4 Quicken and the deck is perfect, Kappa
He asked for suggestions. I gave him mine. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to do that. My apologies your all mighty. I shall never again. *bows down to king jerk*
you gave him a suggestion, but no reason for that suggestion other than "it's good". If you would have said it was a meta call it would have alleviated all the confusion to begin with.
After extensive testing I decided to play with Ethereal Haze over Darkness with Togores list as he has seemed to have the most cumulative success. Same card costs 15 less and is better against other scenarios while achieving the same purpose fundamentally. That said, I would swamp 1 of the temples to the UW one to compensate a bit by adding one more white source. Is this a viable change?
After extensive testing I decided to play with Ethereal Haze over Darkness with Togores list as he has seemed to have the most cumulative success. Same card costs 15 less and is better against other scenarios while achieving the same purpose fundamentally. That said, I would swamp 1 of the temples to the UW one to compensate a bit by adding one more white source. Is this a viable change?
Not only is Ethereal Haze cheaper, it's just plain better than Darkness. It stops Eidolon of the Great Revel and also Borboygmos Enraged. I've had the same thought of swapping a deceit for another enlightenment but haven't tested it yet. Going to an IQ tonight so I'll report back.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Let it go. If you're really worried about it, you can pact it and angel's grace, you can run wear//tear, disenchant, or more likely just run a couple of fetches so you can always pentad for 4 under a blood moon. Sounds like you have no experience with the deck and are paying way too much attention to this flash in the plan that doesn't merit any attention. Just learn what hands are keepable in general and then when you face this deck account for what could happen in game 2 or 3 when they try and execute their plan. I have a hard time believing they have a clock that won't let us do anything you want.
Edit: referring to the IQ finish.
please keep us updated, this seems very interesting.
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9579&d=254987&f=MO
This is basically my main deck. My side board if different. Anything you guys think I can improve on? I'm pretty anti spoils, is it time to give in and try it out? Any one have win % with and with out it?
I don't like paying 2 life in most matchups. Sure we could just pay the U but most times I'd rather just cantrip. Many times our opponents hands are irrelevant to us so it's just basically a cycle effect. I guess my big question is what do you take out of the deck in order to play probe? I wouldn't want to remove any visions or sleights for this.
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
In my meta the 2 grixis twin decks run 4 hand disruption in the the main deck with access to 2-4 more after board. It's, worth it....
so you're telling other people how to SB based on your meta, that is not very smart. Most Grixis Twin decks run minimal discard. Please when offering SB help, do so with the intention that people are playing stock decks and don't customize it to your meta, that doesn't help anyone.
@ the Bring to Light deck. Throw in 4 Quicken and the deck is perfect, Kappa
meant for the maindeck, jesus Christ; didn't think I had to mention that.
He asked for suggestions. I gave him mine. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to do that. My apologies your all mighty. I shall never again. *bows down to king jerk*
you gave him a suggestion, but no reason for that suggestion other than "it's good". If you would have said it was a meta call it would have alleviated all the confusion to begin with.
Not only is Ethereal Haze cheaper, it's just plain better than Darkness. It stops Eidolon of the Great Revel and also Borboygmos Enraged. I've had the same thought of swapping a deceit for another enlightenment but haven't tested it yet. Going to an IQ tonight so I'll report back.