I think 4x Horror of the Broken Lands and 4x Desert Ceradon is canon. They’re our best cyclers for sure and a big reason why the deck has gotten much more competitive. I would never cut either, personally.
Disagree. I run 2x horror and maintained deadshots in my list. I find that the extra punch horror gives you is often either overkill/winmore, and when it is relevant you often only need one. Deadshots mean my cyclers all cycle for red mana (with the exception of the 2 horror) which makes my mana base far more consistent and quicker to get there and much more resilient to bloodmoon. That being said they both have benefits if you know the meta you are walking into and I could see myself running more horror with more advanced knowledge, but more often than not I find deadshot to be correct.
In other good news, SSG is getting a reprint to maybe I can finally get some foils without taking out a mortgage.
I like the Minotaur a lot and used to run him before our new cyclers showed up. That said, I was running less Macabre and that was in the SB. He just doesn't work for me now. Having a little bit easier of a cycling cost doesn't make up for the nonbo with Macabre, of which I am currently mainboarding four. Even if that wasn't a factor I would still personally prefer Horror. Horror makes people block inefficiently, and I've won more than a few games off his pumps.
Still, what you said makes a lot of sense. I just didn't realize anyone wasn't running all four copies of Horror. I can see the argument for Minotaur and for the playset of Horrors not being "canon". Minotaur doesn't work for me though.
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I'm going to go ahead and say that, at least with Jund compositions of the build, the only cyclers I can honestly see as cannon 4 ofs are Ceradon and Street Wraith. All the other 0-1 cyclers:
Deadshot Minotaur
Horror of the Broken Lands
Carabid
I have seen lists running 0-3 in the past and with logical reasons. I honestly think those 2 are the only 2 that can survive a new wave of cycling creatures should we get them in the future (crosses fingers for Dominaria), since Deadshot and Carabid have obvious flaws and downsides. I can even imagine non cyclers who just have an easy way to bin themselves like Macabre, or even sorceries that cost 3 and discard a large number of cards as a result have the potential to change the list.
It's funny to think our best cycler is a vanilla 6/5 but there is something about just being big and cheap that makes it worth it. No one who saw Cerodon in the previews didn't instantly go "That is a 4 off in every list". Its a 1 mana goyf for us. Honestly even if we get a generic 4/4 cycler that is on color in the future I can see it replacing some stuff in the list, or a new evoke creature.
This exact logic is why I find ricochet trap a bit unsettling. Not because I disagree with it, necessarily. There is a good argument that ricochet performs the same structural role in our deck against control as the LD. But the LD does so much more. It can help to keep a Supreme Verdict from going off, constrain their ability to win, and all in all, give more trouble than simply a counterspell would. Ricochet trap is not merely a counterspell, it is only a counter of counters. This is typically good for decks that need to resolve combos, but traditionally those decks win rapidly after comboing. We have a combo with which there can be significant interaction. I therefore remain a skeptic on the card--not an implacable one, and I've run it before, but I don't think it's our evergreen answer to control.
I never said that it was a slam dunk answer, it's just more efficient. There's obviously going to be corner cases like rule saavy opponents choosing two targets with cryptic or non-counter answers like board wipes but it's not like all the LD is going out, just some.
Whoa! I would never imagine in a million years that boarding out any LD was the right move to make room for Trap. I’m not being facetious, I seriously couldn’t imagine that being the right move. Land hate has always been so powerful for me against control MUs I’ve never really needed to rely on Trap.
For a lot of cases, LD and traps are functionally the same, with one being more efficient.
Take a common example, opponent is on 6 lands, taps 4 for JTMS leaving 2 blue sources open (one unbasic). We're sitting on 6 lands ourselves with outburst and fulminator. The play would be to main phase 1 fulminator blow up unbasic then main phase 2 cascade to dodge the common two mana counters (logic knot, remand, mana leak).
Take that same scenario in which the fulminator is now a trap and I now have two additional mana, could be used to cycle, or even hold a back up cascade with SSG. The result is the same either way as well, LE resolves. In the first example, it resolves because opponent doesn't have the mana to pay for counter, in the second, opponent's counter gets countered.
I suppose it depends on your 60 as well, some of the flex slot cards aren't amazing and I did say that i'd take out 2 mana cyclers before LD pieces. Archfiends (and shriekmaws by extensions) are coming out before LD and if those are in the 60 enough to cover the traps then that's fine. But if I don't have those or am running a crucial 2 mana cycler like pale recluse, I might be more incline to shave LD, especially if I suspect the opponent will hold fetches and/or fetch conservatively which diminishes the power of our LD line greatly.
I see you've devised a situation where ricochet trap is exactly as effective as a fulminator. But you are assuming that being at six mana is something that just happens for our opponents, as though we are dropped into the game by a preset system. Why is your opponent at six mana? Because you have ricochet traps in hand instead of fulminators. Sure, you resolved living end. But your opponent now has six mana, a Jace in play, and all the chances in the world to come up with a way to win. The two cards are not equivalents because they do not lead to the same game states before and afterwards as each other. Fulminator has permanent impact. Ricochet does not.
Ricochet is more of a bomb whereas fulminator is a workhorse. You also likely want multiple fulminators where as there are not too many times you want multiple traps, and only one of them comes back with LE. I cannot see how they are comparable, they serve 2 totally different purposes.
That being said, I have sided out fulminators plenty of times against decks with counter magic, specifically ones where the deck was rife with basic lands like Merfolk. Fulminator is absolutely worse in games 2 and 3 if your opponent has the tools to play around it, and I have had games where I have sided out all 4 simply because my opponent had few to no targets. The issue there becomes not having anything worthwhile to bring in because your deck is filled with very specific spells and not bodies.
If my opponent is holding up fetches and/or fetching basics, is fulminator really a haymaker anymore?
Yes, because the threat of this card makes it so that they can’t reaolve BOTH cryptic command AND supreme verdict without ALSO making their deck scramble for mana.
Holding up fetch lands also means you get to resolve Fulminator, and when he fetches, you sac to target a different fetch, then he sacs it, and you cascade because the opponent is down two lands anyway.
Smarter not harder boys, our deck uses the stack very well.
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But you are assuming that being at six mana is something that just happens for our opponents, as though we are dropped into the game by a preset system. Why is your opponent at six mana? Because you have ricochet traps in hand instead of fulminators.
That's why I said common example. It's not always going to be magical LD fantasy land for us all the time despite our deck being one of the best LD decks in the format. There will be times where we don't draw our LD pieces or where our opponent plays around LD pieces that they get to a state where they're safe from land screw (but not necessarily color screw).
Sure, you resolved living end. But your opponent now has six mana, a Jace in play, and all the chances in the world to come up with a way to win. The two cards are not equivalents because they do not lead to the same game states before and afterwards as each other. Fulminator has permanent impact. Ricochet does not.
I wouldn't necessarily call that a bad situation in the first place. My general late resolved LEs against control usually puts my opponent on a one turn clock. So they usually have one or two turn to find a permanent answer or win. U/R doesn't really have a permanent outside of chaining cryptics while trying to race if i'm low. UW/x has supreme verdicts as the more permanent answer and maybe the occasional settle the wreckage/elspeth but aren't running much of them and that the board wipes except settle putting the creatures back into gy which isn't the end of the world for us. Similar case for UBx with damnations except they're on even less board wipes answers outside of those.
Yes, because the threat of this card makes it so that they can’t reaolve BOTH cryptic command AND supreme verdict without ALSO making their deck scramble for mana.
Yes but they're not exactly hurting or even stretching for their suite of 2 mana counterspells.
Most people never saw this deck in the first place. For as well positioned and good as I think it is and always has been, it never makes up more than a fraction of the field. Modern has a huge spread of viable decks to begin with, but the deck has a lot of things going against it as far as representation:
It is complex to play
Some people just never play combo
The cards are really esoteric and will not see play in other lists, making them a "bad" investment
It is not a list you can convert into or convert from another format like legacy, it exists only in modern unlike something like affinity which is very similar in both formats.
Format decktype confirmation bias
More on that last bit. I believe that part of the reason you see Jund everywhere, even though I do not think it's actually a great deck, at least not one deserving to own as much of the meta as it does, is simply because it gets the most coverage and had the most people playing it to start with. People who want to build a new list or play something new will see it win events and have high representation and just assume that it is the list to play. Because it gets played more, more strategy articles and the like will get written about it so new players have the most resourced to play it etc. It is a list that started at the top and as a result will likely stay near the top just because. Living end, being a niche deck, really will never attract that many people because of the opposite reasons Jund does, even though it may very well be the superior deck. Just a working theory.
The things that makes decks spring up is usually a big event or multiple event win or some new tech card that is too indisputably powerful to ignore. It's hard to win events when you are already under represented, and the new cyclers we got are hardly flashy enough to catch peoples eyes.
Most people never saw this deck in the first place. For as well positioned and good as I think it is and always has been, it never makes up more than a fraction of the field. Modern has a huge spread of viable decks to begin with, but the deck has a lot of things going against it as far as representation:
It is complex to play
Some people just never play combo
The cards are really esoteric and will not see play in other lists, making them a "bad" investment
It is not a list you can convert into or convert from another format like legacy, it exists only in modern unlike something like affinity which is very similar in both formats.
Format decktype confirmation bias
More on that last bit. I believe that part of the reason you see Jund everywhere, even though I do not think it's actually a great deck, at least not one deserving to own as much of the meta as it does, is simply because it gets the most coverage and had the most people playing it to start with. People who want to build a new list or play something new will see it win events and have high representation and just assume that it is the list to play. Because it gets played more, more strategy articles and the like will get written about it so new players have the most resourced to play it etc. It is a list that started at the top and as a result will likely stay near the top just because. Living end, being a niche deck, really will never attract that many people because of the opposite reasons Jund does, even though it may very well be the superior deck. Just a working theory.
The things that makes decks spring up is usually a big event or multiple event win or some new tech card that is too indisputably powerful to ignore. It's hard to win events when you are already under represented, and the new cyclers we got are hardly flashy enough to catch peoples eyes.
As an aside, I think Living End is in a great position to be taking down events because Jund has a historically bad MU in our deck. They can’t rely on spot removal + hand disruption vs the deck that needs 1 of 8 spells off the top to win the game. They don’t play many ways to interact with us even post board, damnation + surgical are the only things they’ve got in the arsenal.
I think with the rise of Jund, 4 Ape is no longer correct — awful topdecked and we need more consistent mana vs them. 3/19 or even 2/20 sounds right, possibly 3/20 if you sacrifice flex slots.
Note: is anyone interested in a Discord server for our deck? I’m wanting to make it the best possible again
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I think with the rise of Jund, 4 Ape is no longer correct — awful topdecked and we need more consistent mana vs them. 3/19 or even 2/20 sounds right, possibly 3/20 if you sacrifice flex slots.
Even if this is true against Jund, SSG is so good against the field I would never take out my 4th. I think I would far sooner just side one or 2 out for games 2-3. You are already a heavy favorite in the match up so you really don't need slight edges at the cost of big hits against the rest of the field.
I don’t know buddy, I talked to TWoo about it a couple days ago and he pretty much agreed. 2/20 SSG/Land split, 2 Land cyclers, 4 archfiend, 2 Beast within, 8 cascade, no Faerie or Shriekmaw MB... reached independent conclusions before talking.
With 3 MB Scooze and 4 BBE to find them, they can very reliably find a MB answer to our combo. They’re also playing fewer push and more hard kill, like dreadbore, so a mediocre draw won’t cut it anymore.
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I think we have a great MU against Jund. Like previously stated, discard is generally bad against us. Targeted discard can hit our cascades, but we can still cycle through it into more. I have been running 7x cascade spells but the uptick in Jund I think probably warrants the 8th. I think taking out Macabre is still wrong. We need a way to get rid of Goyfs that Lili has binned. Also, and this is a big one, Jund has a lot of recursion now in Kolaghan’s Command and Liliana, the Last Hope. We want to be able to hit BBE’s they’re trying to get back. Also, I’ve been seeing a lot more Control, and Macabre is great against Snapcaster Mage.
Most of the Jund decklists are running a 1/1 split between Grafdigger’s Cage and Nihil Spellbomb in the SB for GY hate. That’s not much against us. The fact that we’re not representing a large percentage of the meta is a good thing. It makes it easy for a good pilot to steal an event. Unfortunately 3x Scooze MB is the norm right now. I was not an advocate at all of running a MB Shriekmaw before and I don’t know if it’s correct now, but I will say that I’m more inclined to with all the Scoozes and Goyfs running around.
I have a feeling we’ll see an uptick in Bogles now that they’ve won the MOCS and have geared the list to prey on Jund. This is great if that’s the case. LE is amazing against them. Their umbras do nothing. I think SSG is really important here. We do have to watch RiP and Ethersworn Canonist out of the board. Krosan Grip seems good here.
I think the 4th Fulminator Mage is really good right now. I’m going to acquire another one because I want it for my Jund list as well as LE. I had all four but someone stole two of mine, and I only replaced one because I was only running 3x in my LE list before the unbannings.
Oh, one last thing. Hollow One is an extremely good deck and way more consistent than people realize. It’s a hard MU for Jund. I think if people start discovering how competitive it is it will see a good bit more play. If that’s the case, Macabre seems like a solid option.
I think we’re positioned very well right now. In fact, I think we’re in a fantastic position to take a large tournament. I hope someone does. Now’s the time.
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I have played through ooze multiple times, he does not scare me nearly as much as a spellbomb or relic can. Far too slow and you have many more mainboard outs to it. The fact that they are running 4 BBE now is in my opinion better for us. It's still vulnerable to our board wipe, it makes their average mana cost in the deck higher against our land destruction, and it makes them more reliant on non basics against our fulminators. Most decks that want to beat us should not be relying on 4 mana, multicolored answers but rather free stuff that shuts us out.
If anything, I would think we want more SSGs to be able to power out turn 2 fulminators since just simply gets hands where it has no choice but to lead off with a non basic and we want to be able to punish that.
I don’t know buddy, I talked to TWoo about it a couple days ago and he pretty much agreed. 2/20 SSG/Land split, 2 Land cyclers, 4 archfiend, 2 Beast within, 8 cascade, no Faerie or Shriekmaw MB... reached independent conclusions before talking.
With 3 MB Scooze and 4 BBE to find them, they can very reliably find a MB answer to our combo. They’re also playing fewer push and more hard kill, like dreadbore, so a mediocre draw won’t cut it anymore.
Which land cyclers?
Shriekmaw's in the side? I've found them and Anger of the Gods to be required lately with all the Jund and Human's I'm seeing.
So is his plan in that matchup to either combo as quick as possible as Plan A, with Plan B to hard cast an Archfiend and use it to run the board?
So is his plan in that matchup to either combo as quick as possible as Plan A, with Plan B to hard cast an Archfiend and use it to run the board?
While I respect Twoo for bringing Living End to the forefront, I don't think he's really deep in the current metagame. Landcyclers? Sure, blood moon is a thing right now. 2 SSGs? Eh, slightly slower meta, debatable but not completely out of left field especially when combined with landcyclers. 4 Archfiends? This man is high.
Not only is the consideration of running a creature that won't help you against the slew of 50/50 matchup decks until the living end player is in a winning position, hence win more, but that there's 4 of them? What's the plan when the humans player plops a Thalia or meddling mage? Or when burn has that Eidolon out? I'd much rather just have shriekmaws. They deal with all the above and then some more (goyf, ooze, bbe, any eldrazi, etc) cleanly with no investment aside from the initial upfront 2 mana cost.
Another point on why we don't get played as much: it's a huge investment to get to know this deck well. It took me on the order of two years to get to where I felt I could play it right. Granted, me 6 years ago was not a great player, certainly not pro caliber, but every time one of them picks up the deck and does a video with it, I can clear see moments where they make suboptimal plays. Not plays that are debatable--plays that are wrong, even if they're still ok.
Very much agreed on TWoo being kinda out of step with current Modern. His MO is to throw weird ideas at the board and see if they stick. Some of them have, and been brilliant even. Others were things like splashing white in this deck for Restoration Angel. I think that Pale Recluses are smart in this meta, but not the full set of fiends.
Agreed on us being in a really favorable position. It's looking good for the garbage pail kids.
I disagree with him being out of touch — in the Mastermind we discuss modern and standard daily. But who knows, I’m going to Test the deck at locals the next few weeks and a couple online leagues, see where it’s at.
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I think Travis's build has fine internal logic, in that if you are going to go with more 2 mana cyclers and land cyclers, then a 20/2 land ssg split makes more sense. I totally agree that 4 archfiends is too much and not conducive to most metas. Even if you love the card 3 seems like plenty to me, because the more 1 mana cyclers you make room for the more often you see fiends anyway.
The only living end lists that have performed recently are 4 archfiend lists (Not that many have performed). The modern challenge was the most recent “large” event with a finish by living end. The GP lists this summer played them.
It’s been a pattern, we’ve disagreed every time, but in a large tournament (7+ Rounds) the utility he brings must be worth something special. I’m going to give it another shot.
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Disagree. I run 2x horror and maintained deadshots in my list. I find that the extra punch horror gives you is often either overkill/winmore, and when it is relevant you often only need one. Deadshots mean my cyclers all cycle for red mana (with the exception of the 2 horror) which makes my mana base far more consistent and quicker to get there and much more resilient to bloodmoon. That being said they both have benefits if you know the meta you are walking into and I could see myself running more horror with more advanced knowledge, but more often than not I find deadshot to be correct.
In other good news, SSG is getting a reprint to maybe I can finally get some foils without taking out a mortgage.
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Still, what you said makes a lot of sense. I just didn't realize anyone wasn't running all four copies of Horror. I can see the argument for Minotaur and for the playset of Horrors not being "canon". Minotaur doesn't work for me though.
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Deadshot Minotaur
Horror of the Broken Lands
Carabid
I have seen lists running 0-3 in the past and with logical reasons. I honestly think those 2 are the only 2 that can survive a new wave of cycling creatures should we get them in the future (crosses fingers for Dominaria), since Deadshot and Carabid have obvious flaws and downsides. I can even imagine non cyclers who just have an easy way to bin themselves like Macabre, or even sorceries that cost 3 and discard a large number of cards as a result have the potential to change the list.
It's funny to think our best cycler is a vanilla 6/5 but there is something about just being big and cheap that makes it worth it. No one who saw Cerodon in the previews didn't instantly go "That is a 4 off in every list". Its a 1 mana goyf for us. Honestly even if we get a generic 4/4 cycler that is on color in the future I can see it replacing some stuff in the list, or a new evoke creature.
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I see you've devised a situation where ricochet trap is exactly as effective as a fulminator. But you are assuming that being at six mana is something that just happens for our opponents, as though we are dropped into the game by a preset system. Why is your opponent at six mana? Because you have ricochet traps in hand instead of fulminators. Sure, you resolved living end. But your opponent now has six mana, a Jace in play, and all the chances in the world to come up with a way to win. The two cards are not equivalents because they do not lead to the same game states before and afterwards as each other. Fulminator has permanent impact. Ricochet does not.
That being said, I have sided out fulminators plenty of times against decks with counter magic, specifically ones where the deck was rife with basic lands like Merfolk. Fulminator is absolutely worse in games 2 and 3 if your opponent has the tools to play around it, and I have had games where I have sided out all 4 simply because my opponent had few to no targets. The issue there becomes not having anything worthwhile to bring in because your deck is filled with very specific spells and not bodies.
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Yes, because the threat of this card makes it so that they can’t reaolve BOTH cryptic command AND supreme verdict without ALSO making their deck scramble for mana.
Holding up fetch lands also means you get to resolve Fulminator, and when he fetches, you sac to target a different fetch, then he sacs it, and you cascade because the opponent is down two lands anyway.
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That's why I said common example. It's not always going to be magical LD fantasy land for us all the time despite our deck being one of the best LD decks in the format. There will be times where we don't draw our LD pieces or where our opponent plays around LD pieces that they get to a state where they're safe from land screw (but not necessarily color screw).
I wouldn't necessarily call that a bad situation in the first place. My general late resolved LEs against control usually puts my opponent on a one turn clock. So they usually have one or two turn to find a permanent answer or win. U/R doesn't really have a permanent outside of chaining cryptics while trying to race if i'm low. UW/x has supreme verdicts as the more permanent answer and maybe the occasional settle the wreckage/elspeth but aren't running much of them and that the board wipes except settle putting the creatures back into gy which isn't the end of the world for us. Similar case for UBx with damnations except they're on even less board wipes answers outside of those.
Yes but they're not exactly hurting or even stretching for their suite of 2 mana counterspells.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Most people never saw this deck in the first place. For as well positioned and good as I think it is and always has been, it never makes up more than a fraction of the field. Modern has a huge spread of viable decks to begin with, but the deck has a lot of things going against it as far as representation:
More on that last bit. I believe that part of the reason you see Jund everywhere, even though I do not think it's actually a great deck, at least not one deserving to own as much of the meta as it does, is simply because it gets the most coverage and had the most people playing it to start with. People who want to build a new list or play something new will see it win events and have high representation and just assume that it is the list to play. Because it gets played more, more strategy articles and the like will get written about it so new players have the most resourced to play it etc. It is a list that started at the top and as a result will likely stay near the top just because. Living end, being a niche deck, really will never attract that many people because of the opposite reasons Jund does, even though it may very well be the superior deck. Just a working theory.
The things that makes decks spring up is usually a big event or multiple event win or some new tech card that is too indisputably powerful to ignore. It's hard to win events when you are already under represented, and the new cyclers we got are hardly flashy enough to catch peoples eyes.
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As an aside, I think Living End is in a great position to be taking down events because Jund has a historically bad MU in our deck. They can’t rely on spot removal + hand disruption vs the deck that needs 1 of 8 spells off the top to win the game. They don’t play many ways to interact with us even post board, damnation + surgical are the only things they’ve got in the arsenal.
I think with the rise of Jund, 4 Ape is no longer correct — awful topdecked and we need more consistent mana vs them. 3/19 or even 2/20 sounds right, possibly 3/20 if you sacrifice flex slots.
Note: is anyone interested in a Discord server for our deck? I’m wanting to make it the best possible again
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Even if this is true against Jund, SSG is so good against the field I would never take out my 4th. I think I would far sooner just side one or 2 out for games 2-3. You are already a heavy favorite in the match up so you really don't need slight edges at the cost of big hits against the rest of the field.
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With 3 MB Scooze and 4 BBE to find them, they can very reliably find a MB answer to our combo. They’re also playing fewer push and more hard kill, like dreadbore, so a mediocre draw won’t cut it anymore.
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Most of the Jund decklists are running a 1/1 split between Grafdigger’s Cage and Nihil Spellbomb in the SB for GY hate. That’s not much against us. The fact that we’re not representing a large percentage of the meta is a good thing. It makes it easy for a good pilot to steal an event. Unfortunately 3x Scooze MB is the norm right now. I was not an advocate at all of running a MB Shriekmaw before and I don’t know if it’s correct now, but I will say that I’m more inclined to with all the Scoozes and Goyfs running around.
I have a feeling we’ll see an uptick in Bogles now that they’ve won the MOCS and have geared the list to prey on Jund. This is great if that’s the case. LE is amazing against them. Their umbras do nothing. I think SSG is really important here. We do have to watch RiP and Ethersworn Canonist out of the board. Krosan Grip seems good here.
I think the 4th Fulminator Mage is really good right now. I’m going to acquire another one because I want it for my Jund list as well as LE. I had all four but someone stole two of mine, and I only replaced one because I was only running 3x in my LE list before the unbannings.
Oh, one last thing. Hollow One is an extremely good deck and way more consistent than people realize. It’s a hard MU for Jund. I think if people start discovering how competitive it is it will see a good bit more play. If that’s the case, Macabre seems like a solid option.
I think we’re positioned very well right now. In fact, I think we’re in a fantastic position to take a large tournament. I hope someone does. Now’s the time.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
If anything, I would think we want more SSGs to be able to power out turn 2 fulminators since just simply gets hands where it has no choice but to lead off with a non basic and we want to be able to punish that.
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Which land cyclers?
Shriekmaw's in the side? I've found them and Anger of the Gods to be required lately with all the Jund and Human's I'm seeing.
So is his plan in that matchup to either combo as quick as possible as Plan A, with Plan B to hard cast an Archfiend and use it to run the board?
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT
While I respect Twoo for bringing Living End to the forefront, I don't think he's really deep in the current metagame. Landcyclers? Sure, blood moon is a thing right now. 2 SSGs? Eh, slightly slower meta, debatable but not completely out of left field especially when combined with landcyclers. 4 Archfiends? This man is high.
Not only is the consideration of running a creature that won't help you against the slew of 50/50 matchup decks until the living end player is in a winning position, hence win more, but that there's 4 of them? What's the plan when the humans player plops a Thalia or meddling mage? Or when burn has that Eidolon out? I'd much rather just have shriekmaws. They deal with all the above and then some more (goyf, ooze, bbe, any eldrazi, etc) cleanly with no investment aside from the initial upfront 2 mana cost.
Very much agreed on TWoo being kinda out of step with current Modern. His MO is to throw weird ideas at the board and see if they stick. Some of them have, and been brilliant even. Others were things like splashing white in this deck for Restoration Angel. I think that Pale Recluses are smart in this meta, but not the full set of fiends.
Agreed on us being in a really favorable position. It's looking good for the garbage pail kids.
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Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
It’s been a pattern, we’ve disagreed every time, but in a large tournament (7+ Rounds) the utility he brings must be worth something special. I’m going to give it another shot.
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