I think you should consider pulse of Murasa, against burn you can win 6 life and take back a snapcaster to play it again or a baloth if the opponent killed it or even a sakura to chump !
If you are not playing the full four Cryptic Command you shouldn't be playing this deck. The best reason to play blue Scapeshift is turn 3 CC and when that isn't good it's time to look elsewhere. Part of the reason BtL is (imo) not the way to take this deck is that it make playing CC much harder since the deck gets way to clunky.
As far as burn goes, what's a good SB piece of burn-specific hate in RUG? I play the full 4 Baloths and a few copies of Dispel but might consider adding another card. We can't really play Feed the Clan, is there something else?
well you have your biases. And i have seen lists do well with 3 cryptics so your preference for cryptic is noted
also Pulse of Murasa is a lifegain tactic that recurs sakura tribe elders so I like that more here personally
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
There's not a justification for dropping Cryptic that doesn't also require dropping Remand. Cryptic is bad when the metagame is aggressive enough that the efficiency/raw power of Cryptic isn't good enough and Remand is bad against all those same aggressive decks (in fact Cryptic is usually better against aggro because you at least have the chance to chain together fog/draws to get to a win). If you aren't running Cryptic you should just drop blue and run an RG variant, or possibly run one of those light blue splash Omen versions from a very long time ago. One result from a 33 person tournament isn't going to convince me compared to every other RUG deck running their full set.
Edit: Also thanks for the responses regarding Burn, I think I'll try Pulse and possibly Chalice as well which sounds pretty good.
Double edit: I realize reading this back over it sounds slightly more combative than I'm trying to be. I'm just not seeing a good reason for this deckbuilding choice. In fact looking this list over is very confusing to me. For example the best argument I could make for cutting Cryptic but not Remand would be the mana cost stretching a 4-color BtL base, but this deck is playing a full 4 copies of Farseek for 12 ramp spells which should make casting Cryptic (and Cryptic on turn 3, too) even easier. When we're playing an extra 4 spells that we want to tap-out on turn 2 for why are we playing 4 Remands? Even just straight swapping 4 Remands for 4 Cryptics makes this list make way more sense to me given that he's got 12+ ways to do things on turn 2 between STE/Counsel/Farseek/Roil/tapland + SfT/Bolt.
There's not a justification for dropping Cryptic that doesn't also require dropping Remand. Cryptic is bad when the metagame is aggressive enough that the efficiency/raw power of Cryptic isn't good enough and Remand is bad against all those same aggressive decks (in fact Cryptic is usually better against aggro because you at least have the chance to chain together fog/draws to get to a win). If you aren't running Cryptic you should just drop blue and run an RG variant, or possibly run one of those light blue splash Omen versions from a very long time ago. One result from a 33 person tournament isn't going to convince me compared to every other RUG deck running their full set.
Edit: Also thanks for the responses regarding Burn, I think I'll try Pulse and possibly Chalice as well which sounds pretty good.
Double edit: I realize reading this back over it sounds slightly more combative than I'm trying to be. I'm just not seeing a good reason for this deckbuilding choice. In fact looking this list over is very confusing to me. For example the best argument I could make for cutting Cryptic but not Remand would be the mana cost stretching a 4-color BtL base, but this deck is playing a full 4 copies of Farseek for 12 ramp spells which should make casting Cryptic (and Cryptic on turn 3, too) even easier. When we're playing an extra 4 spells that we want to tap-out on turn 2 for why are we playing 4 Remands? Even just straight swapping 4 Remands for 4 Cryptics makes this list make way more sense to me given that he's got 12+ ways to do things on turn 2 between STE/Counsel/Farseek/Roil/tapland + SfT/Bolt.
I'll keep that in mind and test both ways and see what information I have for you
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
There's not a justification for dropping Cryptic that doesn't also require dropping Remand. Cryptic is bad when the metagame is aggressive enough that the efficiency/raw power of Cryptic isn't good enough and Remand is bad against all those same aggressive decks (in fact Cryptic is usually better against aggro because you at least have the chance to chain together fog/draws to get to a win). If you aren't running Cryptic you should just drop blue and run an RG variant, or possibly run one of those light blue splash Omen versions from a very long time ago. One result from a 33 person tournament isn't going to convince me compared to every other RUG deck running their full set.
Edit: Also thanks for the responses regarding Burn, I think I'll try Pulse and possibly Chalice as well which sounds pretty good.
Double edit: I realize reading this back over it sounds slightly more combative than I'm trying to be. I'm just not seeing a good reason for this deckbuilding choice. In fact looking this list over is very confusing to me. For example the best argument I could make for cutting Cryptic but not Remand would be the mana cost stretching a 4-color BtL base, but this deck is playing a full 4 copies of Farseek for 12 ramp spells which should make casting Cryptic (and Cryptic on turn 3, too) even easier. When we're playing an extra 4 spells that we want to tap-out on turn 2 for why are we playing 4 Remands? Even just straight swapping 4 Remands for 4 Cryptics makes this list make way more sense to me given that he's got 12+ ways to do things on turn 2 between STE/Counsel/Farseek/Roil/tapland + SfT/Bolt.
I'll keep that in mind and test both ways and see what information I have for you
Well, I personally play a deck with 4 Remand 0 Cryptic. There are definitely versions that would want 0 Cryptic but still want Remand. Heck, I don't even run any Prismatic Omen.
Could you post a list and/or explain why you want 4 Remand 0 Cryptic? I still don't understand given that, again, Remand is worse than Cryptic in the matchups where Cryptic is bad and Cryptic is seemingly our biggest advantage as a deck.
As for the list, I don't have Cryptics for several reasons: Mana costs, money costs, and the original list was faster (0 anger maindeck for 2 more Khalni Heart Expedition) and I do admit I'd like to have 3-4 Prismatic Omens, just can't find any and I don't feel like purchasing them online. If you're playing a faster deck, it's not worth playing a 4 mana card.
If I were to add Omens, probably -1 Anger (to sideboard) -1 Cinder Glade -3 Explore -1 Khalni Heart Expedition, +3-4 Prismatic Omen + 2-3 Farseek
No Cryptic makes me sad as its certainly the reason ive stuck with the RUG variant over other builds. I have messed around with the number of remands though and really like a 2/2 split of remand and explore right now, though that might change if midrange decks make a resurgence due to fatal push.
Yes, but the only aggressive Scapeshift variant with blue that I know of is the PrimeTime/Omen build like what you've got in your list. BtL certainly is never an aggressive deck.
I wouldn't necessarily go quite that far - I think that Cryptic can be cut down on in matchups where opponents can reasonably be expected to have Dispel (i.e. most Delver matchups) where you can rely on your own Dispels and Izzet Charm to be a more efficient counter suite. But yeah, by and large, Cryptic is our bread and butter.
Advice from the Fae has been good, I wanted an Impulse type effect, though, this could probably just as easily be the 3rd Izzet charm as I've not been fond of Peer through depths or Worldly counselI'm sure some of you will take note of two things at least, no Search for tomorrow and the inclusion of Nahiri, the Harbinger. Basically this boils down to my variance feeling bad and me drawing ramp spells when I need ... anything else ... so I decided to put some "options" cards in the deck. Nahiri makes some sideboard spaces because she is maindeck removal for creatures and enchantments, she may not be Gideon Jura but she can absorb a decent amount of damage and can draw through the deck on occasion, though her + does seem weak as I do find myself in awkward shouldn't discard scenarios.
Then I have the real dilemma, this unfortunate love for Prismatic Omen which leads me on this path
I do feel like probably the second list is overall more streamlined I do find myself wanting something like paths instead of bolt occasionally as I have no real way to get rid of "big guys", but if things go well I guess the plan is to not care about "big guys". Unfortunately there is generally a lot of tasinger and goyf played in my area ... but, I'd like some input on which one of these decks to take to an unknown meta, large scale summer tourneys that I'll be traveling to soon as I am essentially out of touch and practice from my hiatus. Any advice is much appreciated.
I do lean more towards trying to control the board state than ramp, so I definitely agree that the lists are slower. So in the Prismatic omen list the places to put are lightning bolt, serum visions, advice from the fae, and maybe izzet charm? Though I do love the charms, and bolts while not my favorite card in the deck do make me feel slightly safe in combo with charm and verdict vs agro decks. So ... I could cut visions and advice to get 4 Search for tomorrow, then ... maybe verdict to the sideboard replacing Slaughter games ? Then cut an Izzet charm to get 2 Farseek or Explore making the list this ?
For the Nahiri list cutting advice and changing explores to search for tomorrow could get me an extra farseek ... the nahiri list has no room for anything I feel like unless I bail on lightning bolts. Maybe it's just too diluted and I should go back to the omen list, I guess I don't have to play bolts, which would net me 9 ramp slots but if I walk into an unknown meta I feel like I probably should play bolts. Could 3 charm and no bolts making the list this
Edit for after thought ...
On a side note, does anyone still play wargate in these lists or is it too slow ? I keep looking at the card as a farseek that can get anything or pick a Rest in peace / Stony Silence game two and three
Won a local GPT today, it was 5 rounds then cut to top 4. Mostly guys I normally play against but there were a couple new faces. Beat in this order- Bant Eldrazi 2-1, Eldrazi Tron 2-0, GR Breach 2-1, Ad Nauseam 2-0. Drew last round to allow my opponent on GR Tron into top 4 because I was a lock for 1st and that would keep Ad Naus out. Top 4- Beat GR Breach 2-0 again, then Jeskai Nahiri 2-0 in the finals.
A couple thoughts- I havent played Ad Naus a ton, but I think Omen lists have a huge advantage over other Scapeshift variants vs it because we dont actually have to play a spell to win- we can just hit land drops with Valakut in play and force them to use up their angels graces and the like while holding up all the countermagic.
I changed my split of remands and explores from 2/2 to 3/1 in anticipation of more midrange and big mana decks as a result of the bans; for this tournament at least, it was the right call. I also exchanged my sideboard Anger for a Dispel, but that might turn into a Crumble in the future.
I think the future for this deck looks very good. Lets bring Scapeshift back to relevence!
Hi, I was wondering what your list was and how exactly the games vs Bant Eldrazi went. I've only just been getting into the deck (RUG, not BTL) and I've been struggling against all of the Eldrazi variants.
So the Bant Eldrazi matchup yesterday. The biggest thing to understand is that they sometimes have draws that we cannot beat. Turn 2 Thought knot into Smasher is like that. Yesterday in our game one he goes T2 Eldrazi Displacer off of cavern and temple into Thought knot and straight locked me out after that. However, barring those sorts of starts we should have the edge. Cryptic is probably the best card in the matchup, although if you are running an Omen variant getting bolts off every land drop to keep the board clean also is very helpful.
My sideboard plan looks like this- Out: electrolyze, 1 anger, 2 remand, 1 omen. In: 4 Baloth, Pithing Needle
Electrolyze does nothing, anger kills displacer and birds and not much else, Remand seems nice but they normally have no issues finding cavern if they need it, and the 4th omen is a bit of a luxury. Baloth blocks thought knot and displacer and gains needed life. I have even done things like bounce a smasher after attacks with crytic, discarding baloth to smasher trigger and blocking thought knot for so much value. Pithing needle comes in and names either displacer or drowner depending on the situation. I dont side out ramp because we really do need a quick clock to win in most cases. Because of cavern it is normally in our best interests to be as proactive as possible rather than reactive. Remember also that they bring some amount of countermagic, including stubborn denial. Just be aware of it to avoid the blow out.
Overall the matchup is at least 50/50, although I would say its a little in our favor. Once again barring their nut draws.
Thanks so much for the reply. Does it ever feel awkward running Serum Visions along with SFT? I'm testing a build similar to yours, except instead of running Serum Visions I play two copies of Into the Roil (which I really like so far), an additional copy of Electrolyze, and Compulsive Research to help mitigate some of the flooding that comes with 26 lands.
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well you have your biases. And i have seen lists do well with 3 cryptics so your preference for cryptic is noted
http://www.mtgdecks.net/deck/晴れる屋モダン杯/modern/scapeshift_sukegawa_hayato/661192/
also Pulse of Murasa is a lifegain tactic that recurs sakura tribe elders so I like that more here personally
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Edit: Also thanks for the responses regarding Burn, I think I'll try Pulse and possibly Chalice as well which sounds pretty good.
Double edit: I realize reading this back over it sounds slightly more combative than I'm trying to be. I'm just not seeing a good reason for this deckbuilding choice. In fact looking this list over is very confusing to me. For example the best argument I could make for cutting Cryptic but not Remand would be the mana cost stretching a 4-color BtL base, but this deck is playing a full 4 copies of Farseek for 12 ramp spells which should make casting Cryptic (and Cryptic on turn 3, too) even easier. When we're playing an extra 4 spells that we want to tap-out on turn 2 for why are we playing 4 Remands? Even just straight swapping 4 Remands for 4 Cryptics makes this list make way more sense to me given that he's got 12+ ways to do things on turn 2 between STE/Counsel/Farseek/Roil/tapland + SfT/Bolt.
I'll keep that in mind and test both ways and see what information I have for you
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Well, I personally play a deck with 4 Remand 0 Cryptic. There are definitely versions that would want 0 Cryptic but still want Remand. Heck, I don't even run any Prismatic Omen.
As for the list, I don't have Cryptics for several reasons: Mana costs, money costs, and the original list was faster (0 anger maindeck for 2 more Khalni Heart Expedition) and I do admit I'd like to have 3-4 Prismatic Omens, just can't find any and I don't feel like purchasing them online. If you're playing a faster deck, it's not worth playing a 4 mana card.
If I were to add Omens, probably -1 Anger (to sideboard) -1 Cinder Glade -3 Explore -1 Khalni Heart Expedition, +3-4 Prismatic Omen + 2-3 Farseek
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Advice from the Fae
4 Bring to Light
3 Cryptic Command
4 Explore
2 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Remand
2 Scapeshift
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
1 Krosan Grip
1 Negate
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 Spellskite
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
Advice from the Fae has been good, I wanted an Impulse type effect, though, this could probably just as easily be the 3rd Izzet charm as I've not been fond of Peer through depths or Worldly counselI'm sure some of you will take note of two things at least, no Search for tomorrow and the inclusion of Nahiri, the Harbinger. Basically this boils down to my variance feeling bad and me drawing ramp spells when I need ... anything else ... so I decided to put some "options" cards in the deck. Nahiri makes some sideboard spaces because she is maindeck removal for creatures and enchantments, she may not be Gideon Jura but she can absorb a decent amount of damage and can draw through the deck on occasion, though her + does seem weak as I do find myself in awkward shouldn't discard scenarios.
Then I have the real dilemma, this unfortunate love for Prismatic Omen which leads me on this path
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
1 Advice from the Fae
4 Bring to Light
4 Cryptic Command
3 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Prismatic Omen
4 Remand
2 Scapeshift
3 Serum Visions
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Krosan Grip
1 Negate
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Slaughter Games
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
I do feel like probably the second list is overall more streamlined I do find myself wanting something like paths instead of bolt occasionally as I have no real way to get rid of "big guys", but if things go well I guess the plan is to not care about "big guys". Unfortunately there is generally a lot of tasinger and goyf played in my area ... but, I'd like some input on which one of these decks to take to an unknown meta, large scale summer tourneys that I'll be traveling to soon as I am essentially out of touch and practice from my hiatus. Any advice is much appreciated.
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
4 Bring to Light
4 Cryptic Command
2 Farseek
2 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Prismatic Omen
4 Remand
2 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Krosan Grip
1 Negate
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
For the Nahiri list cutting advice and changing explores to search for tomorrow could get me an extra farseek ... the nahiri list has no room for anything I feel like unless I bail on lightning bolts. Maybe it's just too diluted and I should go back to the omen list, I guess I don't have to play bolts, which would net me 9 ramp slots but if I walk into an unknown meta I feel like I probably should play bolts. Could 3 charm and no bolts making the list this
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
//Spells
4 Bring to Light
3 Cryptic Command
4 Explore
3 Izzet Charm
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Remand
2 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
1 Krosan Grip
1 Negate
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 Spellskite
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
Edit for after thought ...
On a side note, does anyone still play wargate in these lists or is it too slow ? I keep looking at the card as a farseek that can get anything or pick a Rest in peace / Stony Silence game two and three
A couple thoughts- I havent played Ad Naus a ton, but I think Omen lists have a huge advantage over other Scapeshift variants vs it because we dont actually have to play a spell to win- we can just hit land drops with Valakut in play and force them to use up their angels graces and the like while holding up all the countermagic.
I changed my split of remands and explores from 2/2 to 3/1 in anticipation of more midrange and big mana decks as a result of the bans; for this tournament at least, it was the right call. I also exchanged my sideboard Anger for a Dispel, but that might turn into a Crumble in the future.
I think the future for this deck looks very good. Lets bring Scapeshift back to relevence!
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Explore
4 Cryptic Command
3 Remand
2 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze
4 Prismatic Omen
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Serum Visions
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Primeval Titan
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Stomping Ground
4 Steam Vents
1 Cinder Glade
1 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
3 Island
2 Forest
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Obstinate Baloth
1 Spell Pierce
2 Negate
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Spellskite
1 Sudden Shock
1 Dispel
So the Bant Eldrazi matchup yesterday. The biggest thing to understand is that they sometimes have draws that we cannot beat. Turn 2 Thought knot into Smasher is like that. Yesterday in our game one he goes T2 Eldrazi Displacer off of cavern and temple into Thought knot and straight locked me out after that. However, barring those sorts of starts we should have the edge. Cryptic is probably the best card in the matchup, although if you are running an Omen variant getting bolts off every land drop to keep the board clean also is very helpful.
My sideboard plan looks like this- Out: electrolyze, 1 anger, 2 remand, 1 omen. In: 4 Baloth, Pithing Needle
Electrolyze does nothing, anger kills displacer and birds and not much else, Remand seems nice but they normally have no issues finding cavern if they need it, and the 4th omen is a bit of a luxury. Baloth blocks thought knot and displacer and gains needed life. I have even done things like bounce a smasher after attacks with crytic, discarding baloth to smasher trigger and blocking thought knot for so much value. Pithing needle comes in and names either displacer or drowner depending on the situation. I dont side out ramp because we really do need a quick clock to win in most cases. Because of cavern it is normally in our best interests to be as proactive as possible rather than reactive. Remember also that they bring some amount of countermagic, including stubborn denial. Just be aware of it to avoid the blow out.
Overall the matchup is at least 50/50, although I would say its a little in our favor. Once again barring their nut draws.