Tarmogoyf in Scapeshift seems ugly as hell to me. We are not going to beat down the opponent with onyl 4 goyfs, it makes decks able to trade with us and it does not advance our plan. The onyl pairing where I would rather have a tarmo than a cantrip is burn/little zoo. However the prismatic omen build seems interesting.
Tarmogoyf in Scapeshift seems ugly as hell to me. We are not going to beat down the opponent with onyl 4 goyfs, it makes decks able to trade with us and it does not advance our plan. The onyl pairing where I would rather have a tarmo than a cantrip is burn/little zoo. However the prismatic omen build seems interesting.
I played scapeshift with your mindset for ages, and all I can say to you now is that it plays out a lot better in practice than it seems on paper. Honestly, it all just gels together. The general sentiment of "you're just giving your opponent a target for removal" doesn't quite ring true when playing against actual opponents and actual decks with average draws and stuff.
Apart from anything else, it stops you from having to rely on drawing an anger of the gods or whatever in order to just not lose against aggressive creature decks. Often, a single Goyf plus whatever's in your hand is easily enough to stop your opponent from attacking. It also works incredibly synergistically with prismatic omen, making natural valakut triggers lethal or opening up the board for you to swing.
Try it before you dismiss it. Bear in mind it's more of a tempo shell than a pure control shell. I just got fed up of having to rely on cryptic command as a 4 mana fog against quick decks, and almost being a bye for them. Currently, as I said, I'm enjoying my most positive record with any deck since modern began. It works. Whether or not you find it "ugly" is neither here nor there really.
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In almost every game I play, I side out all 4 remand. Why do we play remand? when do we actually keep them in the main for games 2/3? I understand that it slows the game down, digs, disrupts, etc. but if the card was good enough, why do we side it out in almost every single matchup? I'm asking because the thought of cutting it from the deck for harder disruption seems good to me.
In almost every game I play, I side out all 4 remand. Why do we play remand? when do we actually keep them in the main for games 2/3? I understand that it slows the game down, digs, disrupts, etc. but if the card was good enough, why do we side it out in almost every single matchup? I'm asking because the thought of cutting it from the deck for harder disruption seems good to me.
Well, the first question is this: Scapeshift is a combo-control deck. Remand is a tempo swing card that allows you to gain extra turns and therefore, more time to win. I tend to keep 2 in on the draw, after SB, against most Junk/Jund variants as that card is incredibly good against them. I tend to keep all 4 in if I am on the play. It's also decent against Abzan company and I tend to keep 2 in against them. In the mirror, any blue matchup, and Living End, all of the remands stay in as it is an easy answer to flashbacked cards, putting their win con into their hand, and giving you extra counters when going for your own Scapeshift. It's an easy card to replace because it is a blank against certain matchups and a slot that can be replaced with a sideboard card that is just better than it.
You definitely should not simply cut the card from the deck. Drawing a card from it is highly relevant as we want to filter through as much as possible to get to Scapeshift. You can remand your own spells to draw cards and even save yourself from bad situations by remanding other cards to your hand. It is a highly versatile card that shouldn't be ignored because you side it out often. Just some food for thought.
Nice to hear you're doing well with Tarmoshift. Not really my cup of tea, since I prefer to go full control when playing Scapeshift. What does surprise me somewhat is that you added both Prismatic Omen and Tarmogoyf to your deck. While being a recent convert to Prismatic Omen (still testing it though), I wonder if your tempo version might benefit from an increased number of snapcasters and/or something like Vendilion Clique.
An additional question to anyone reading, some of the recent succesful lists (Daryl Ayers, basically) seemed to favor Explore over other types of ramp spells, even going so far as to cut Search for Tomorrow. To me, however, Explore has always felt very clunky, since you sometimes just miss the second - or god forbid, the first - land drop. Never would I replace what is IMO the best ramp spell we have, SfT, with Explore. Whats your take on this? I've tested it several times, as a playset or in lower numbers, but it rarely seemed to work out...
I've tried the Daryl Ayers version and its a hard switch from the more controlling versions. It relies on Prismatic Omen a decent amount, but it also has good inevitability by getting natural Valakut triggers. The problem I found was that you tend to lose your hand quickly and without the 4 filter lands, the deck can be extremely clunky. I like Search for Tomorrow a lot, and the deck he made didn't suit me on a personal level. It's good and definitely worth trying out if you get the chance. It's just straight combo with some control elements, but focuses more on getting lands asap and not worrying about which ones too often.
Nice to hear you're doing well with Tarmoshift. Not really my cup of tea, since I prefer to go full control when playing Scapeshift. What does surprise me somewhat is that you added both Prismatic Omen and Tarmogoyf to your deck. While being a recent convert to Prismatic Omen (still testing it though), I wonder if your tempo version might benefit from an increased number of snapcasters and/or something like Vendilion Clique.
An additional question to anyone reading, some of the recent succesful lists (Daryl Ayers, basically) seemed to favor Explore over other types of ramp spells, even going so far as to cut Search for Tomorrow. To me, however, Explore has always felt very clunky, since you sometimes just miss the second - or god forbid, the first - land drop. Never would I replace what is IMO the best ramp spell we have, SfT, with Explore. Whats your take on this? I've tested it several times, as a playset or in lower numbers, but it rarely seemed to work out...
On the snapcaster/clique question. Snapcaster isn't at his best in this deck. I recently added prismatic omen (the right choice) to facilitate a more consistent natural wincon from just playing land drops, and as a result, I'm playing less of the value cards (izzet charm, electrolyze) that make snapcaster better. I still keep a single snapcaster maindeck because it counts as a versatile 6th bolt or 4th scapeshift; whatever I need it to be at the time. Too many though and it starts being a bit cumbersome, especially when my most powerful Sideboard cards are creatures.
As for clique, it's a fragile maindeck card that's totally blank against burn and similarly aggressive decks. I put it in the side to proactively combat combo decks but it just doesn't fit in the main.
Goyf in the main has been playing out like a mixture of wall of omens, and gurmag angler. It's always a good roadblock, improves creature matchups and can sometimes just bash in for 5. Particularly, it makes your bolts easily twice as good at doing their job, by allowing you to (for example) deal with multiple threats and/or plabeswalkers in a single combat step.
There's also a lot of synergy with prismatic omen and the role Goyf plays here. Rather than having to snipe their threats and then pass the turn with no pressure, or start racing their life total while sitting completely vulnerable to attacks, having a Goyf in play lets you snipe their threats with valakut triggers while applying pressure of your own, and allows you to dome them out while presenting legitimate blockers that trade very well. Obviously if you draw scapeshift it's usually game over but when you don't, it pays to have a secondary way to win.
I've played all of the different versions of scapeshift since modern began, and this particular version definitely has the most balanced matchups across the wide metagame. Previous versions have always been top-heavy and lose out massively to decks like affinity or similar that can get under counterspells or take advantage of your "do stuff" spells being at 4 and 5 mana.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
This is the pile I've been playing with recently. Straightforward 4c with white splash. I was playing with Snapcasters previously and they just didn't feel right in the deck. Might trade the farseek and Electrolyze for it, but I'm unsure if that is the right call. P&K put in a tremendous amount of work game 1. I might swap the Wilds with a Kodama's reach just to shave the curve down further. Glen Elendra is very strong post-board versus anything blue. Currently fiddling around with a few slots in the board, namely the Baloth, Pulse and EE. Sometimes the baloth is Leyline #4. EE comes in against a whole host of matchups and can take care of basically any permanent in Modern currently.
OK well I've slept and now it's morning in my part of the world. How was your final round? Did you win? I'm guessing you were a lock for day 2 which is sweet
it was 9 rounds day 1, 6 rounds day 2 so yup i made day 2. in fact 6-3 and above made day 2.
Edit:
Just got 26th out of 617 at the SCG Milwaukee Open with BTL Black Scapeshift. Woohoo!
Congrats! Exciting to hear
I've got a Modern No Ban List coming up. I've thought about jamming a lot of things and then thought, why not jam a MNBL Scapeshift Deck. I'm thinking traditional RUG with some good cantrips and seeing my friend Dig through Time again. Any thoughts on what to modify from some of the traditional builds? Bolt any good in a No ban list meta ya think?
Well despite me 2-0ing infect twice this weekend it's a scary matchup and with blazing shoal legal you'll see more infect in no banlist modern meta. Bolt helps against that but not sure what you'd take out. a bolt version of scapeshift is very different from mine. I'll post a link to my list once scg posts them but I'll link to my reddit post that is pretty close to up to date and ive got a lot of info there
I like to think I'm getting up there in the Veteran Status of playing Scapeshift, and a true advocate for BTL-White. I literally thought I'd give this a shot to try cause I have a State Champ thing coming up. First League, 5-0, First Time I've 5-0ed (Many 4-1s with BTL-W). I think I'll be ordering my Damnation and Maelstrom Pulse tonight :)!
I'm glad you enjoyed my list. I may have only started playing the deck last month but I'm a quick study and am 31-7-1 in matches and in non-tournament matches I've won most of my testing. My only thoughts on the main deck are:
Do I go back up to 4 fetches to raise back up the liklihood of being able to suspend search on turn 1? If so do I cut
Cinder Glade
Flooded Grove
Blood Crypt
Watery Grave
I like having 11 Mountains b/c I drew them a lot but I feel like I need 1 more way to access green mana on turn 1. The rest of the main has been working out great. There are more options for the sb but so far I'm really enjoying it. Please lmk thoughts I might go to Indy, not sure yet. My wife wants me to stay and do a garage sale...
In almost every game I play, I side out all 4 remand. Why do we play remand? when do we actually keep them in the main for games 2/3? I understand that it slows the game down, digs, disrupts, etc. but if the card was good enough, why do we side it out in almost every single matchup? I'm asking because the thought of cutting it from the deck for harder disruption seems good to me.
This might be your meta. If you are facing a lot of burn and infect and zoo, trading 2 mana for 1 mana is just not worth it imo (especially when they can just recast the spell on the same turn). Maybe that 1 mana means they don't kill you to next turn but generally there are better ways to beat those decks (<3 me some sudden shock for infect). When you start remanding Rhinos, Chords, Collect Company, Cryptic Command, Counterspells against your Scapeshift, etc. then you're in business.
In almost every game I play, I side out all 4 remand. Why do we play remand? when do we actually keep them in the main for games 2/3? I understand that it slows the game down, digs, disrupts, etc. but if the card was good enough, why do we side it out in almost every single matchup? I'm asking because the thought of cutting it from the deck for harder disruption seems good to me.
This might be your meta. If you are facing a lot of burn and infect and zoo, trading 2 mana for 1 mana is just not worth it imo (especially when they can just recast the spell on the same turn). Maybe that 1 mana means they don't kill you to next turn but generally there are better ways to beat those decks (<3 me some sudden shock for infect). When you start remanding Rhinos, Chords, Collect Company, Cryptic Command, Counterspells against your Scapeshift, etc. then you're in business.
They are definitely worse on the draw.
agreed.
i tend to only side out remand vs. decks that feature predominantly 1-drops or less. (for example Elves/burn).
even against Burn, remand is quite handy. the deck routinely gets stuck on 1 or 2 lands early in the game (making remanding a spell worthwhile), and remanding a suspended rift bolt is game-winning tempo.
however, as someone will doubtlessly point out, remand is very poor against burn's best hands, and when on the draw. I normally win game 1 anyway, so side out the remands for Baloths and other useful stuff.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
As you all have a ton of experience I was wondering if you think a alteration of the deck could work.
I was thinking bring to light allows for so much potential and could be insane resilience against the different hate out there.
So the deck I was thinking would cut all blue out of the main but bring to light
The engine of the deck would look something like
1 scapeshift
4 BTL
1 Kiki
1 Through the Breach
1 Emrakul
4 Nahiri
1 primetime
4 restoration angels
2-3 wall of omens
rest of ramp and removal package but no counter spells could play path to exile as well.
This would be kind of a smash up of the different strategies in the format right now. You can bring out TTB if you have an emrakul or prime time in hand (prime time for the haste, if you fetch 2 valakut then swing fetching 2 mountains you do 12 valakut damage and 6 trample, could up valakut count by 1 to make it more likely you would deal 18 valakut damage) if you have an angel on the field or kiki on the field you can find the other piece for kiki win (kiki and angel are decent in the deck to draw cards off wall and retrigger primetime, angel is just a beast anyways)and if you have 7 lands in play you can deal 18 damage straight to the face. As alsways you can fetch the wrath of god to clear the board if coco is being a *****. Nahiri is 2 answers in 1 card loots and can fetch out 1 of the amazing wincons.
So I was wondering what people here would think as I have not played regular shift regularly and am curious if a more field interactive explosive version could work with out as many ways to protect its combos.
This is a question for some who have played the archetype for a few years. Why did Harrow fall out of the deck? It used to be a 2-4 of in Extended lists and then just fell out of favor once CrypticShift came about.
I think it's probably better in the RG Titan version due to the number of basics, but this thread is a bit older.
Harrow only ramps you by +1 land, so it's basically the same effect as Sakura-Tribe Elder, Search for Tomorrow, or Farseek, but for a larger mana investment. It also has the downside of being a complete blowout if your opponent has countermagic.
It does have the advantage of basically only costing 2 by virtue of the fact that you can use the land you sac and the new lands come in untapped. Being instant speed also is nice so you can do stuff like hold up cryptic and still potentially ramp or ramp and remand in the same turn (on T3). That said I think Twin was way too popular when Scapeshift hit the modern scene and playing Harrow basically just got you wrecked by remand. If your meta is counterspell light it might be ok but watch out for counterspells post board.
It also has the downside of being a complete blowout if your opponent has countermagic.
The downside is pretty obvious in a blue meta. However the general meta now isn't entirely blue (mostly aggro), so I can see a benefit in still being able to keep up counter/cryptic mana up and ramp end of their turn.
I did a little digging and probably found the reason. Brace for history lesson.
Doing a little reading and a search on TCDecks, extended Cryptic lists played all 3 ramp spells (Tribe Elder, Search for Tomorrow, and Harrow) when they were all legal. Farseek was also legal, but Harrow was the preferred ramp spell (a search of Extended decks containing Tribe Elder, Search, and Harrow yielded a lot more results than the same with Farseek). Once Primeval Titan was introduced in 2010, lists split off in RUG Cryptic and RG Valakut (with Titan) but still played some number of Harrows. So now we fast forward to 2011, Extended is gutted and Modern is announced in May of that year. Valakut is banned so the Scapeshift deck doesn't really exist. Splinter Twin picks up at that year's Pro Tour (PT Philly 2011). GP Lincoln, GP Turin, GP Yokohama, and GP Columbus all shape a modern format full of RUG Aggro, Splinter Twin, Melira Pod, and Affinity. October 2012, Valakut comes off the ban list. It doesn't put up many results, but the RUG Version we know today took shape in early 2013 (with the MTGSalvation thread of people brainstorming). It looks like Harrow just did not translate into the meta at the time as Storm, Twin, and RUG aggro were all packing heavy countermagic so the card was just lost.
However, we know the meta is different today as not as many decks are packing countermagic and the format in general is more aggressive. I'm going to test 2 in the RG build tonight. I believe 1-2 would be pretty good in the RUG version over Farseek.
The downside is pretty obvious in a blue meta. However the general meta now isn't entirely blue (mostly aggro), so I can see a benefit in still being able to keep up counter/cryptic mana up and ramp end of their turn.
Since RUG Scapeshift isn't a list that's designed around or capable of the natural Valakut kill (Just making land drops into bolts and killing them without resolving Scapeshift), I'm not really seeing the benefits. Without that natural kill, sacrificing one land to put two into play is strictly worse than just putting one in directly. If the only benefit you are aiming for is the ability to ramp at instant speed, then why not just play Natural Connection? It has the exact same benefit while not having the potential to set yourself back by a turn against decks with islands.
Another reason why Scapeshift decks don't play those cards is basic land count. In RUG lists, where you can hold up mana for countermagic, you typically only play 6-7 basics, and 8 of your locked in slots (STE and SfT) already search for basics only. Adding additional basic-only ramp spells (especially double ones like Harrow) significantly increases the chances that you'll fail to find. On the flip side, in RG lists that play significantly more basics, there isn't any countermagic, so the benefits of leaving mana up on your opponent's turn are reduced, meaning that mana & tempo efficiency are more important than being able to leave up mana.
i'm in a weird spot. i haven't really ever played the deck without a full set of bolts in the maindeck (apart from back when pod was legal, when I subbed them for 2x Electrolyze and a couple 2x Disrupting Shoal as a metagame call)
and yet i'd like to consider dropping them for something more impactful. when they work, nothing else comes close. at other times though they seem in the vein of too-little-too-late or just not good enough (such as when facing an opposing Tasigur or something). it's rough, honestly. what to swap them for?
for reference here's my list (it's a RUG tempo-style build with a combo win. has performed very well but i'm always looking to improve). any constructive criticism will be taken with gratitude, and any changes you'd make would be appreciated.
please note that after some FNM play yesterday, i'm coming round to maybe tweaking the build towards a full playset of thecombo cards, omen and scapeshift. this could mean some shuffling around and a change in style of the deck. my feeling right now is that omen has been critical in winning many games singlehandedly, but at the same time I am sacrificing a lot of the power of a RUG midrange build by not including izzet charm and electrolyze, both highly versatile spells as well as ways to dig through your deck. I also recognise that I could potentially run some number of Primeval Titan (possibly instead of a single scapeshift) in conjunction with omen, because by the time you get to 6 or 7 mana, why not cast a fatty who also just nukes the board or your opponent's face. I'm not suggesting a full titan-shift build, but maybe 1 or 2 in the maindeck (and I do know from research that this has been tried before in RUG and works fairly well. in recent build i've seen titan crop up as a 2-of)
thoughts?
my sideboard was all over the place before, but i'm happy with the "core" i've got here. any suggestions will be appreciated.
finally - how do we beat delver (specifically talking the grixis kind)? a recent testing experience has led me to believe that it's a pretty tricky matchup.
In certain metas it certainly is correct to trim or even cut lightning bolt entirely. However, at this time I'm not sure I'd recommend it. My own meta is super aggressive; with zoo, infect, fish, and other aggro creature decks being the top players. When I sleeve up RUGshift I often play 2 Courser of Kruphix in the main. Also, if you are running tarmogoyf and trying to play a more tempo oriented gameplan bolt seems too crucial for closing out the game.
At this moment I don't play prismatic omen or goyf, however I have been seriously considering biting the bullet and buying a set of omen in order to play various titanshift varieties, (Naya/Jund) don't currently have a RUG list but it's certainly something I would try. My only concern with rug titanshift is that maxing out on valakuts alongside cryptic command (one of the main reasons to play blue) would make for some awkward mana.
The grixis delver matchup is tricky for sure (along with RUG), in them we suffer from the classic scapeshift problem of being unable to remove a resolved large creature, (Tarmogoyf, Gurmag angler, Tasigur) some cards to consider for your sb.
RBGW Suicide Zoo
Legacy
RUG Canadian Threshold
I played scapeshift with your mindset for ages, and all I can say to you now is that it plays out a lot better in practice than it seems on paper. Honestly, it all just gels together. The general sentiment of "you're just giving your opponent a target for removal" doesn't quite ring true when playing against actual opponents and actual decks with average draws and stuff.
Apart from anything else, it stops you from having to rely on drawing an anger of the gods or whatever in order to just not lose against aggressive creature decks. Often, a single Goyf plus whatever's in your hand is easily enough to stop your opponent from attacking. It also works incredibly synergistically with prismatic omen, making natural valakut triggers lethal or opening up the board for you to swing.
Try it before you dismiss it. Bear in mind it's more of a tempo shell than a pure control shell. I just got fed up of having to rely on cryptic command as a 4 mana fog against quick decks, and almost being a bye for them. Currently, as I said, I'm enjoying my most positive record with any deck since modern began. It works. Whether or not you find it "ugly" is neither here nor there really.
In almost every game I play, I side out all 4 remand. Why do we play remand? when do we actually keep them in the main for games 2/3? I understand that it slows the game down, digs, disrupts, etc. but if the card was good enough, why do we side it out in almost every single matchup? I'm asking because the thought of cutting it from the deck for harder disruption seems good to me.
Well, the first question is this: Scapeshift is a combo-control deck. Remand is a tempo swing card that allows you to gain extra turns and therefore, more time to win. I tend to keep 2 in on the draw, after SB, against most Junk/Jund variants as that card is incredibly good against them. I tend to keep all 4 in if I am on the play. It's also decent against Abzan company and I tend to keep 2 in against them. In the mirror, any blue matchup, and Living End, all of the remands stay in as it is an easy answer to flashbacked cards, putting their win con into their hand, and giving you extra counters when going for your own Scapeshift. It's an easy card to replace because it is a blank against certain matchups and a slot that can be replaced with a sideboard card that is just better than it.
You definitely should not simply cut the card from the deck. Drawing a card from it is highly relevant as we want to filter through as much as possible to get to Scapeshift. You can remand your own spells to draw cards and even save yourself from bad situations by remanding other cards to your hand. It is a highly versatile card that shouldn't be ignored because you side it out often. Just some food for thought.
I've tried the Daryl Ayers version and its a hard switch from the more controlling versions. It relies on Prismatic Omen a decent amount, but it also has good inevitability by getting natural Valakut triggers. The problem I found was that you tend to lose your hand quickly and without the 4 filter lands, the deck can be extremely clunky. I like Search for Tomorrow a lot, and the deck he made didn't suit me on a personal level. It's good and definitely worth trying out if you get the chance. It's just straight combo with some control elements, but focuses more on getting lands asap and not worrying about which ones too often.
On the snapcaster/clique question. Snapcaster isn't at his best in this deck. I recently added prismatic omen (the right choice) to facilitate a more consistent natural wincon from just playing land drops, and as a result, I'm playing less of the value cards (izzet charm, electrolyze) that make snapcaster better. I still keep a single snapcaster maindeck because it counts as a versatile 6th bolt or 4th scapeshift; whatever I need it to be at the time. Too many though and it starts being a bit cumbersome, especially when my most powerful Sideboard cards are creatures.
As for clique, it's a fragile maindeck card that's totally blank against burn and similarly aggressive decks. I put it in the side to proactively combat combo decks but it just doesn't fit in the main.
Goyf in the main has been playing out like a mixture of wall of omens, and gurmag angler. It's always a good roadblock, improves creature matchups and can sometimes just bash in for 5. Particularly, it makes your bolts easily twice as good at doing their job, by allowing you to (for example) deal with multiple threats and/or plabeswalkers in a single combat step.
There's also a lot of synergy with prismatic omen and the role Goyf plays here. Rather than having to snipe their threats and then pass the turn with no pressure, or start racing their life total while sitting completely vulnerable to attacks, having a Goyf in play lets you snipe their threats with valakut triggers while applying pressure of your own, and allows you to dome them out while presenting legitimate blockers that trade very well. Obviously if you draw scapeshift it's usually game over but when you don't, it pays to have a secondary way to win.
I've played all of the different versions of scapeshift since modern began, and this particular version definitely has the most balanced matchups across the wide metagame. Previous versions have always been top-heavy and lose out massively to decks like affinity or similar that can get under counterspells or take advantage of your "do stuff" spells being at 4 and 5 mana.
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
1 Flooded Grove
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
3 Island
2 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Plains
Acceleration
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Farseek
4 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
2 Izzet Charm
Wincon
3 Scapeshift
4 Bring to Light
Utility and Interaction
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Electrolyze
1 Wrath of God
2 Worldly Counsel
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Shatterstorm
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Krosan Grip
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Counterflux
1 Negate
I'm glad you enjoyed my list. I may have only started playing the deck last month but I'm a quick study and am 31-7-1 in matches and in non-tournament matches I've won most of my testing. My only thoughts on the main deck are:
Do I go back up to 4 fetches to raise back up the liklihood of being able to suspend search on turn 1? If so do I cut
Cinder Glade
Flooded Grove
Blood Crypt
Watery Grave
I like having 11 Mountains b/c I drew them a lot but I feel like I need 1 more way to access green mana on turn 1. The rest of the main has been working out great. There are more options for the sb but so far I'm really enjoying it. Please lmk thoughts
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Curse PremiumThis might be your meta. If you are facing a lot of burn and infect and zoo, trading 2 mana for 1 mana is just not worth it imo (especially when they can just recast the spell on the same turn). Maybe that 1 mana means they don't kill you to next turn but generally there are better ways to beat those decks (<3 me some sudden shock for infect). When you start remanding Rhinos, Chords, Collect Company, Cryptic Command, Counterspells against your Scapeshift, etc. then you're in business.
They are definitely worse on the draw.
agreed.
i tend to only side out remand vs. decks that feature predominantly 1-drops or less. (for example Elves/burn).
even against Burn, remand is quite handy. the deck routinely gets stuck on 1 or 2 lands early in the game (making remanding a spell worthwhile), and remanding a suspended rift bolt is game-winning tempo.
however, as someone will doubtlessly point out, remand is very poor against burn's best hands, and when on the draw. I normally win game 1 anyway, so side out the remands for Baloths and other useful stuff.
I was thinking bring to light allows for so much potential and could be insane resilience against the different hate out there.
So the deck I was thinking would cut all blue out of the main but bring to light
The engine of the deck would look something like
1 scapeshift
4 BTL
1 Kiki
1 Through the Breach
1 Emrakul
4 Nahiri
1 primetime
4 restoration angels
2-3 wall of omens
rest of ramp and removal package but no counter spells could play path to exile as well.
This would be kind of a smash up of the different strategies in the format right now. You can bring out TTB if you have an emrakul or prime time in hand (prime time for the haste, if you fetch 2 valakut then swing fetching 2 mountains you do 12 valakut damage and 6 trample, could up valakut count by 1 to make it more likely you would deal 18 valakut damage) if you have an angel on the field or kiki on the field you can find the other piece for kiki win (kiki and angel are decent in the deck to draw cards off wall and retrigger primetime, angel is just a beast anyways)and if you have 7 lands in play you can deal 18 damage straight to the face. As alsways you can fetch the wrath of god to clear the board if coco is being a *****. Nahiri is 2 answers in 1 card loots and can fetch out 1 of the amazing wincons.
So I was wondering what people here would think as I have not played regular shift regularly and am curious if a more field interactive explosive version could work with out as many ways to protect its combos.
I think it's probably better in the RG Titan version due to the number of basics, but this thread is a bit older.
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Curse PremiumAs most ramp spells do.
The downside is pretty obvious in a blue meta. However the general meta now isn't entirely blue (mostly aggro), so I can see a benefit in still being able to keep up counter/cryptic mana up and ramp end of their turn.
I did a little digging and probably found the reason. Brace for history lesson.
Doing a little reading and a search on TCDecks, extended Cryptic lists played all 3 ramp spells (Tribe Elder, Search for Tomorrow, and Harrow) when they were all legal. Farseek was also legal, but Harrow was the preferred ramp spell (a search of Extended decks containing Tribe Elder, Search, and Harrow yielded a lot more results than the same with Farseek). Once Primeval Titan was introduced in 2010, lists split off in RUG Cryptic and RG Valakut (with Titan) but still played some number of Harrows. So now we fast forward to 2011, Extended is gutted and Modern is announced in May of that year. Valakut is banned so the Scapeshift deck doesn't really exist. Splinter Twin picks up at that year's Pro Tour (PT Philly 2011). GP Lincoln, GP Turin, GP Yokohama, and GP Columbus all shape a modern format full of RUG Aggro, Splinter Twin, Melira Pod, and Affinity. October 2012, Valakut comes off the ban list. It doesn't put up many results, but the RUG Version we know today took shape in early 2013 (with the MTGSalvation thread of people brainstorming). It looks like Harrow just did not translate into the meta at the time as Storm, Twin, and RUG aggro were all packing heavy countermagic so the card was just lost.
However, we know the meta is different today as not as many decks are packing countermagic and the format in general is more aggressive. I'm going to test 2 in the RG build tonight. I believe 1-2 would be pretty good in the RUG version over Farseek.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
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Since RUG Scapeshift isn't a list that's designed around or capable of the natural Valakut kill (Just making land drops into bolts and killing them without resolving Scapeshift), I'm not really seeing the benefits. Without that natural kill, sacrificing one land to put two into play is strictly worse than just putting one in directly. If the only benefit you are aiming for is the ability to ramp at instant speed, then why not just play Natural Connection? It has the exact same benefit while not having the potential to set yourself back by a turn against decks with islands.
Another reason why Scapeshift decks don't play those cards is basic land count. In RUG lists, where you can hold up mana for countermagic, you typically only play 6-7 basics, and 8 of your locked in slots (STE and SfT) already search for basics only. Adding additional basic-only ramp spells (especially double ones like Harrow) significantly increases the chances that you'll fail to find. On the flip side, in RG lists that play significantly more basics, there isn't any countermagic, so the benefits of leaving mana up on your opponent's turn are reduced, meaning that mana & tempo efficiency are more important than being able to leave up mana.
Farseek and fetchlands get you your shocks. Your 8 core ramp spells get basics.
Most rug lists run 6 or 7 basics. 3 island, 2 forest and 1 mountain (possibly a second or a cinder glade). It's not really enough for Harrow.
i'm in a weird spot. i haven't really ever played the deck without a full set of bolts in the maindeck (apart from back when pod was legal, when I subbed them for 2x Electrolyze and a couple 2x Disrupting Shoal as a metagame call)
and yet i'd like to consider dropping them for something more impactful. when they work, nothing else comes close. at other times though they seem in the vein of too-little-too-late or just not good enough (such as when facing an opposing Tasigur or something). it's rough, honestly. what to swap them for?
for reference here's my list (it's a RUG tempo-style build with a combo win. has performed very well but i'm always looking to improve). any constructive criticism will be taken with gratitude, and any changes you'd make would be appreciated.
4x sakura-tribe elder
1x snapcaster mage
4x lightning bolt
4x search for tomorrow
4x serum visions
4x remand
4x cryptic command
3x prismatic omen (it's been a beast in testing)
3x scapeshift
4x misty rainforest
1x flooded grove
1x mountain
1x cinder glade
1x breeding pool
2x forest
3x island
4x steam vents
4x stomping ground
3x obstinate baloth
1x keranos, god of storms
1x inferno titan
2x anger of the gods
2x dispel
6x flex spots
please note that after some FNM play yesterday, i'm coming round to maybe tweaking the build towards a full playset of thecombo cards, omen and scapeshift. this could mean some shuffling around and a change in style of the deck. my feeling right now is that omen has been critical in winning many games singlehandedly, but at the same time I am sacrificing a lot of the power of a RUG midrange build by not including izzet charm and electrolyze, both highly versatile spells as well as ways to dig through your deck. I also recognise that I could potentially run some number of Primeval Titan (possibly instead of a single scapeshift) in conjunction with omen, because by the time you get to 6 or 7 mana, why not cast a fatty who also just nukes the board or your opponent's face. I'm not suggesting a full titan-shift build, but maybe 1 or 2 in the maindeck (and I do know from research that this has been tried before in RUG and works fairly well. in recent build i've seen titan crop up as a 2-of)
thoughts?
my sideboard was all over the place before, but i'm happy with the "core" i've got here. any suggestions will be appreciated.
finally - how do we beat delver (specifically talking the grixis kind)? a recent testing experience has led me to believe that it's a pretty tricky matchup.
At this moment I don't play prismatic omen or goyf, however I have been seriously considering biting the bullet and buying a set of omen in order to play various titanshift varieties, (Naya/Jund) don't currently have a RUG list but it's certainly something I would try. My only concern with rug titanshift is that maxing out on valakuts alongside cryptic command (one of the main reasons to play blue) would make for some awkward mana.
The grixis delver matchup is tricky for sure (along with RUG), in them we suffer from the classic scapeshift problem of being unable to remove a resolved large creature, (Tarmogoyf, Gurmag angler, Tasigur) some cards to consider for your sb.
Roast Dismember