MTG Salvation

I wanna give my thoughts and experience to some of those topics as well:)
1) Why is everyone running Nature's Claim over Natural State?? Natural State kills everything we want and the 4 life really can matter in race matchups like Affinity if you cannot Turn 4 them anymore. I would prefer it over Claim ALL the time.
2) Leyline has been great against Burn and I do think you see it enough with 4 copies(Calculation:40% of seeing it in starter, 60% of seeing it in starter or Mull to 6, 75% of seeing it in starter, mull to 6&5.) If you're on the draw against Burn you need some REAL interaction to win. A bit of Lifegain won't be enough, I've experienced that too much. If I'm on the draw against Burn I mulligan until I see a Leyline (stop at 5). They don't anticipate it and we don't have a big problem mulliganing. It buys SO much time that it's almost impossible to lose. Burn players running Shrine over Eidolon only makes this better. It is also a great mirror breaker, same strategy here, on the draw if I only have a medium starter, I mulligan to Leyline. If the hand is fast I keep (especially with Omen in starter), you can still draw into leyline and cast it.
3) I do like my 4 Bolts maindeck. Against almost every matchup you will find a target that you want to kill. And it is needed to keep those Game 1 wins against decks like Vizier Combo, Burn, Death&Taxes, Elves and Affinity. Sweltering Suns is great against all these matchups so I can really see the 3/2 split. I don't like the cycling against anything else though, it seems clunky and I would rather have the Explore most of the time. I'm running 4 Bolts, 1 Explore.
4) I wouldn't overthink the GDS matchup too much. Having a Silver Bullet like Chameleon Colossus is great and I would definitely take the Relics in but I wouldn't overboard and include stuff in SB like Roast. The matchup isn't bad. Our deck is good against Discard. We cannot beat double Shadow, but anything else is beatable. Steves, Wood Elves and Baloths or even Thrun is also good after Sideboard. I would only bring Leylines in if you don't have enough playables. The discard isn't the problem, the early threats are. Bring in your ways to disrupt them or killing their threats. And Colossus just means you WIN.

My question I'm still not sure about: Gaea's Revenge vs Thrun, the Last Troll, which one is better???

Quote from Reymon27 »

I wanna give my thoughts and experience to some of those topics as well:)
1) Why is everyone running Nature's Claim over Natural State?? Natural State kills everything we want and the 4 life really can matter in race matchups like Affinity if you cannot Turn 4 them anymore. I would prefer it over Claim ALL the time.

My question I'm still not sure about: Gaea's Revenge vs Thrun, the Last Troll, which one is better???

You're forgetting about Leyline of Sanctity, doesn't hit one of the best hate cards against us.

As for which to play, they have both won me so many games. Gaea's Revenge was my MVP last night though. I run both in me SB. My question is, where does the new Ixilan dinosaur fit in between those two? Do we give up haste for trample and 1 less mana, or 4/4 regenerate for a 7/6 trample and 2 more mana?

Quote from Nickums »

You're forgetting about Leyline of Sanctity, doesn't hit one of the best hate cards against us.
As for which to play, they have both won me so many games. Gaea's Revenge was my MVP last night though. I run both in me SB. My question is, where does the new Ixilan dinosaur fit in between those two? Do we give up haste for trample and 1 less mana, or 4/4 regenerate for a 7/6 trample and 2 more mana?

Ah yeah Leyline, I knew I forgot about something^^ Just saw the card for the first time and thought I broke the SB:P Then of course Claim is better. I saw some people discussing about Destructive Revelry which I like as well. The 1 mana more might be worth the 6 damage difference.
Thrun can come down on Turn 3-4, Gaea's Revenge on Turn 5-6 but has haste and doubles the clock (can be double blocked to death though). I think against UW Control, Gaeas Revenge is stronger. With the rise of Jeskai Control/Geist/Queller/whatever, I think it is more important to get a threat/blocker down earlier so I guess I will stick with Thrun for now. Was the clock of Thrun always fast enough? I fear that you could get raced by UW Control if they have Snappies and Colonnade + Stuff.
The new Dinosaur is definitely interesting. I think the trample makes it better than Gaea's Revenge. And it is also cheaper than it. I don't know it could really be the best of the 3, we will have to try it out I guess:) They are all great Silver Bullets against Blue Control and I doubt that you will feel a big difference.

The hate for us is getting real. I just got stripped mined by taxes and stone rained by ponza to oblivion. 20% of the field tonight at FNM were ponza decks. Even my GW tron opponent was running 4 leylines in the sideboard. If this keeps up I'm gonna move off the deck for a while

I have had the chance to try black splash at multiple medium sized events (20-30 players), and from my experience it's not the way to go. The deck simply can not play on reactive axis. Yes, having Abrupt Decays in the main and some discard/Slaughter Games in the sideboard does help, but not enough to make a significant difference. You will still fold to hate 9/10 times, and you will still get destroyed by bad match ups. All the while, your primary game plan becomes weaker and less consistent, hurting your good match ups. It's just not worth it.

My opinion: If you are being hated out in your local meta, switch to a different deck. Trying to adjust by making the deck more reactive or splashing a third color is futile.

I got to make it onto the 'feature match' area at SCG Louisville in round 6 this weekend! The deck felt great! It didn't end how I wanted on day 1 but I had a blast overall. Thanks to everyone on this forum for the help

Quote from CTonyJab »

I got to make it onto the 'feature match' area at SCG Louisville in round 6 this weekend! The deck felt great! It didn't end how I wanted on day 1 but I had a blast overall. Thanks to everyone on this forum for the help

Nice. I haven't had a feature match for SCG since well...they stopped coming to the West Coast.

Using FoodChainGoblins' list as basis, thoughts on the 27th land versus the 4th Farseek? The move to 26 would entail removing a Mountain and a Forest, but putting in the 3rd Stomping Ground to maintain the mountain count.

Quote from mrjumbo03 »

Using FoodChainGoblins' list as basis, thoughts on the 27th land versus the 4th Farseek? The move to 26 would entail removing a Mountain and a Forest, but putting in the 3rd Stomping Ground to maintain the mountain count.

I personally think it's fine. I end up siding out a Forest a good number of times anyway. A good example of this is vs. Grixis Shadow. However, I like having 3 Forest in the main deck because I can use them to fight Blood Moon type decks.

I always personally wondered why I saw so many lists running 4 Stomping Ground. I literally don't think that you need more than 2 and any more can be a liability vs. Aggro.

I lost the semis of a 90+ PPTQ players, playing this:
4 Titan
4 STE
1 Wood Elves
4 Shift
4 Bolt
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Search 4 tomorrow
3 Far seek
2 Summoner's Pact
2 Prismatic Omen
3 Hour of Promise
7 Fetch
6 Mountain
3 Forest
4 Stomping Ground
3 Cinder Glade
SB
2 Chameleob Colossus
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Nature's Claim
2 Beat Within

R1: Lost 1-2 to Bogles.
Couldnt do much, this is an awful mu.
R2: Won 2-1 to UB Mill.
I still didnt know how i took this round. Lost G1 and then sideboard in the beats. G3 Prismatic Omen was MVP.
R3: Won 2-0 to Eldrazi Tron
G1 he aplied presure woth a t3 TNS, but then slam a Primeval Titan and that was it. G2 he kept a one land hand. Beast Within it then Bolt the token.
R4: Won 2-1 to Affinity.
Was on the play G1, he was faster than me.G2 and G3 couldnt recall much, but a timely Anger (it took down 4 robots, so it was great).
R5: Won 2-1 to Affinity
G1 couldnt find a win condition and lost. G2 and G3 were very close, but a removal + poor draws from my opponent gave me the round.
R6: Won 2-1 to Jund Moon (yes, he was playing Blood Moon).
G1 he took both of the win condition i got ib my hand (Titan and Hour) and didint fine other in time.
Sideboarding this time waa tricky, since i do sideboard in some Beast Within and the Relic. G2 he kept a weird hand, not applying pressure and no stripping my hand either so it was easy. G3 he stuck and early LotV, but could slam a Titan taking down the lady of the veil and a few beats later i was 5-1.
G7: Won 2-1 to Affinity
I was 8th seed, so couldnt draw. G1 he vomit his hand and couldnt do much. G2 was rough, when i get 6 lands i got in hand 2 more lands, Shift and Pact. Played Pact because i though he had a Spell Pierce, so if he played it i let it solve (not paying for it), and the next turn, if didnt play Thougtseize i could play Shift easily. If the Pact would have resolved, i was goung to serch fpr Prime Time and wipe his board and won by beating. He played Spell Pierce so i didnt pay for it and next turn played a Lethal Shift.
G3 it was a REALLY hard one. I won it by playing Prismatic Omen with 2 Valakut in play to wipe his board. Then every land was dealing damage, so used first as removal.
Finished first, so i was on the play in every round.
T8: Won 2-0 to Naya Burn.
His first play was Eidolon which i quickly Bolt it. Played Wood Elves, more ramp and then Shift for the win. G2 i kept a good hand, but without a Baloth. He played Eidolon T2 and T3, so on my T3 i Anger both away. A few turn later, with 6 lands and my life was on 6, played a Prismatic Omen, then Shift (:.
Semis: Lost 1-2 to Bug Infect.
Yes, infect. It wasnt enough for my to had played against Bogles and UB Mill, i have to played against Infect. 3 decks out of the radar :/.
G1 couldnt do much, lost in t4. G2 he played his 3 infect elves and i promply Anger then away and won a few turns later. G3 i played a bolt and 2 anger to try to took down his lonely infect dude but he could protected three times and still infect me :/.
It was a good tourney and i hate the Affinity match up, is really hard one. Maybe next season i can won a PPTQ, lost twice in Quarters, 3 in Semis and a Finals:/

Damn, that is rough beats. Rough matchups there, although there is a bright spot in beating Affinity 3 times. If there are any more PPTQs this season in your area, I urge you to try again. I was about to give up. It took me 9 PPTQs. I just figured that it should make me a stronger person to fail so much, lol. I nearly went on a rant about the variance in Modern.

Out of more than 90 players, you don't expect to see BUG Infect in the top 4.

*And I really love the list! I am biased since it's close to mine, but I personally don't believe in the Witchbane Orb or Leyline of Sanctity shenanigans.

I think that it was the last one of the season

Hi everyone, I am sorry that my planned updates for the primer got delayed so long and that I haven't posted as regularly for a while. My surgery in August that I mentioned on here went straight into my semester at university starting up with band camp and everything being crazy at the beginning of the quarter. I now finally have my schedule all sorted out and while very busy should be able to continue to update the primer and post regularly.

Quote from spike4972 »

Hi everyone, I am sorry that my planned updates for the primer got delayed so long and that I haven't posted as regularly for a while. My surgery in August that I mentioned on here went straight into my semester at university starting up with band camp and everything being crazy at the beginning of the quarter. I now finally have my schedule all sorted out and while very busy should be able to continue to update the primer and post regularly.

Understandable. Looking forward to seeing it!

Hopefully this injects some energy into this thread as well. These are the Modern Challenge results, copied from Gkourou's post -
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-10-01

Cliffnotes: Titanshift won, another in the top 4 (got the mirror, lol). Titanshift and Storm seemed to have done the best (Storm got 2nd) if you look through the whole top 32.

*Still wondering why lists have 4 Stomping Ground, yet fewer than 4 Cinder Glade? For reference, I use 4 Cinder Glade and 2 Stomping Ground. I still haven't had any clarification for why have 4 Stomping Ground.

The only reasons I can imagine why people are maxing out on stomping ground first is because they have seen pro's do it or are coming from the breach shift lists. Every time you see a pro try out the deck at a GP, they seem to not know the deck well and run 4 stomping grounds. Then they get destroyed by Aggro decks and miss out on top 8. And the Breach shift list needs the full playset because it wants to play 5 mountains, cast through the Breach, and win.

Other than that, there isn't a reason that I've heard that was any good. And those reasons I listed already aren't very good anyway. You should max out on cinder glade first because it's basically Taiga in our deck. Then, two stomping ground is sufficient to make sure you can fetch for your untapped colors when you need them. More stomping ground will mess you up because you will end up having to pay the life more often because you draw them. And then you just keel over and die to Aggro.

Stomping Ground is our best land. Cinder Glade "is basically Taiga" after the third turn and not always. You always have the choice of getting Stomping Ground untapped.

At the cost of making our worst matchups even worse. It is super important to have 2 so that you can get them when you need to with fetches, but there is no reason to max out on them or really even have 3.

There's a reason successful lists run 4. Not being able to Search t1 or Ramp t2 because of tapped lands is devastating. Not running the playset is a mistake.

Assuming 7 fetchlands and 3 basic forest as your only other turn one untapped green sources, 2 stomping grounds gives you an 80 percent chance to have turn 1 green source untapped and 85 percent on turn two. Going up to four gives you 86 and 89 respectively. (All of these numbers are determined through hypergeometric calculations). That's not a huge percentage change for the better when you at also hurting your worst matchups.

2 copies are a necessity. Past that, if you think you need them to feel comfortable, go ahead, but you don't need them.

You want to maximise that percentage. Like I said, there's a reason all the recent successful lists run 4.

It seems we won't agree on this anyway, so let's move on