I have to agree...the boar seems far more pushed...why Again is the green creature smaller than the red...and the red has trample! Seems odd. The whole vigilance thing feels a little odd...and without giving trample double power can often be pointless if any chump blockers are around...kind of a let down. For things with trample it is great...but with no haste, no trample, and 5/5 for 5...may not make it to modern.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s not a bad card. It has interesting design. I was just hoping it would be unreal since the red one was so good.
_____
I am toying with the idea of Tamiyo in the place of my 1-of Eternal Witness. I know it costs 1 more mana; but it is never dead, has a static ability that works in a few match ups, and can always dig for combo pieces if there is nothing of value in the yard. I may test it. Wouldn’t be a big change at all; but just want to see if the extra cost is worth it.
Pre kiora I would have said yes post kiora I think it’s a solid no. Mainly because if we didn’t have the 4 mana turn 2 then we didn’t have a lot of 3 mana plays. But now we have 8 ways to play a kiora on turn 2
Pre kiora I would have said yes post kiora I think it’s a solid no. Mainly because if we didn’t have the 4 mana turn 2 then we didn’t have a lot of 3 mana plays. But now we have 8 ways to play a kiora on turn 2
Agreed. I do think it is a good “filler” card (Exp. if you love your deck and just want to get to the pieces quickly) if you also play a good amount of enchantments and/or artifacts.
That will be one kinda bummer if they do print Wild Growth; as Oath of Nissa doesn’t hit enchantments...but there probably is still enough value there even just grabbing lands, walkers, and creatures. I tend to play it as a 3-of; but I would totally understand even post Wild Growth if people still play a full set.
_________
I’ve tested the new Walker Combo list quite a bit...and it got a LOT better with the addition of Kiora (and a 1-of Karn, the great creator). It is faster, has an additional win-con; and I’m to a point where I’m not entirely sure what to take away if something gets printed. I’m really excited to see how Kiora effects the other archetypes (especially Pact and Tooth and Nail lists).
Wild Growth would obviously push it even faster. With the addition of Kiora and Wild Growth; it pushed us to 3/4 of a turn faster (on average). With Wild Growth the deck would fall below 4-turns (on average). This is a big deal (as part of our difficulties came from the fact that we were a full turn slower than the best synergy decks in the format).
Ok....so if this is true...we may have a new card to really think about:
Per the Translation on Reddit:
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with cmc X or less and put it on the battlefield. If X is 10 or more, your creatures gain haste and +X/+X until eot.
This seems absolutely busted for us. Green Sun's Zenithfor one additional mana (with no color restriction and can search the graveyard)...but when we have 10+ it is a game ender. It doesn't shuffle back in to the deck; but the 10+ part is actually a big deal for us. This with the "Core" and Titan would likely be enough for a great deck...but it opens up a LOT more.
This comes from a "Cycle" posted on redit. May not end up being true...but looks pretty darn real (as they show the whole cycle in the picture including the red one already spoiled and they fit in the mythic count.
It acts as a craterhoof finisher as well as a tutor. I can foresee tutoring for avenger of zendikar and then smashing with plants. On the other hand, because it can tutor for any color creature, that opens up a nice toolbox for us...although I'm not convinced that a straight devotion deck really has room for a huge tutor package, as we want to stay close to green.
This might be just a good sticky card that can fill in the gaps of the deck...adding more consistently as well as another win condition. It could replace primal command as a gap filler, and allow us to play more acidic slimes/thragtusks/etc. It seems very powerful, but I'm not quite sure the number, or what the full composition of a devotion deck would be with it yet.
It acts as a craterhoof finisher as well as a tutor. I can foresee tutoring for avenger of zendikar and then smashing with plants. On the other hand, because it can tutor for any color creature, that opens up a nice toolbox for us...although I'm not convinced that a straight devotion deck really has room for a huge tutor package, as we want to stay close to green.
This might be just a good sticky card that can fill in the gaps of the deck...adding more consistently as well as another win condition. It could replace primal command as a gap filler, and allow us to play more acidic slimes/thragtusks/etc. It seems very powerful, but I'm not quite sure the number, or what the full composition of a devotion deck would be with it yet.
Also makes Rosheen Meanderer more interesting
The Avenger tokens will get neither +X/+X nor haste. On the other hand, if you tutor up a Carnage Tyrant, you basically win with any trivial amount of chip damage.
Not sure if it's a card this deck wants to play, though. Primeval Titan does a similar job if your opponent doesn't have spot removal.
Primeval Titan can't fetch creatures so I'm not sure I get the comparison. In the sense that both of them can operate as cards that win the game, yes Primeval Titan is more powerful. However, this is more of a consistency card that fills out the curve. The flex slots of Summoner's Pact and Primal Command currently fill this role in most versions. I think those would be a better comparison.
In essence, it's a Green Sun's Zenith that is also a win-con. The fact that this deck is built to generate tons of mana makes it a perfect shell for it as we can utilize both modes of the card.
Primeval Titan can't fetch creatures so I'm not sure I get the comparison. In the sense that both of them can operate as cards that win the game, yes Primeval Titan is more powerful. However, this is more of a consistency card that fills out the curve. The flex slots of Summoner's Pact and Primal Command currently fill this role in most versions. I think those would be a better comparison.
In essence, it's a Green Sun's Zenith that is also a win-con. The fact that this deck is built to generate tons of mana makes it a perfect shell for it as we can utilize both modes of the card.
I was talking about as compared to Carnage Tyrant (tutoring for Primeval Titan or Carnage Tyrant is basically the same thing, EXCEPT Titan dies to removal)...
Oh yea Prime Time is definitely better even with removal. He generates value and you can still recur him from the graveyard with this new Finale as well. Against control where they have no board presence, then Carney T may steal the game, but I think against most other decks, Prime Time is just better for sure.
Oh yea Prime Time is definitely better even with removal. He generates value and you can still recur him from the graveyard with this new Finale as well. Against control where they have no board presence, then Carney T may steal the game, but I think against most other decks, Prime Time is just better for sure.
Yeah, that was largely my point. Running 1 Carney T is cute in the sense that it's really hard to interact with (and attacking with a 16-17 power trampler should win the game regardless of triggers), but I also can't imagine it's worth the slot.
On the other hand, a lot of the TNN variants run 1 Emrakul to go off with Xenagos, so from that lens it wouldn't be the first time to run a niche tutor target.
Oh yea Prime Time is definitely better even with removal. He generates value and you can still recur him from the graveyard with this new Finale as well. Against control where they have no board presence, then Carney T may steal the game, but I think against most other decks, Prime Time is just better for sure.
Yeah, that was largely my point. Running 1 Carney T is cute in the sense that it's really hard to interact with (and attacking with a 16-17 power trampler should win the game regardless of triggers), but I also can't imagine it's worth the slot.
On the other hand, a lot of the TNN variants run 1 Emrakul to go off with Xenagos, so from that lens it wouldn't be the first time to run a niche tutor target.
Oh yea Prime Time is definitely better even with removal. He generates value and you can still recur him from the graveyard with this new Finale as well. Against control where they have no board presence, then Carney T may steal the game, but I think against most other decks, Prime Time is just better for sure.
Yeah, that was largely my point. Running 1 Carney T is cute in the sense that it's really hard to interact with (and attacking with a 16-17 power trampler should win the game regardless of triggers), but I also can't imagine it's worth the slot.
On the other hand, a lot of the TNN variants run 1 Emrakul to go off with Xenagos, so from that lens it wouldn't be the first time to run a niche tutor target.
I agree. The Carnage Tyrant would likely be a great sideboard option agains both control and deck like Jund, etc. that have large amounts of spot removal. But I agree that most likely just a “traditional” deck running Titans is enough (the first Titan gets you the Nykthos; the second comes in at 16+ haste/trample.
It likely will give a little room for a slightly more “toolbox” board; but Grull is right that we do generally not stray from Green too much. Fortunately green has a lot to work with in that regard.
In reality, Chord is only 1-more mana with Convoke...at instant speed...but (a) that finisher text is really import to us, and (b) instant speed is a tiny bit less important to us as we tend to play a lot in the main. The finisher text is what would make this playable over other tutors. I could totally see this being played alongside Pact (or even Chord I’m certain more toolbox builds). That, and it can sort-of function at Tooth and Nail 5+ (although it is much harder to get to 17-mana than it is to 9-12 for Emrakul). It’s absolutely worth testing.
Obviously I would try it with wonky things like Primalcrux for fun... but I have a feeling Prime Time is just the best option. He already has the trample you want for the finisher text and is great by himself on 6-mana (and of course gets value even if pathed or otherwise removed).
I think this has been flying under the radar too. It is a lot we can use at 3-cmc in a creature-heavy build. It’s ramp, removal in a pinch, a buff for a deck that often floods the board, and uncounterability against on of our tougher match ups. I bought 3 pre-order as I see a lot of potential as well.
The 3-slot is an interesting one for us. I tend to play Elvish Visionary in a lot of my builds (or coiling Oracle when possible) which pushes the curve more into 2-1 range on turns where you don’t get turn-2 4-mana....but the vast majority of Devotion decks have a great spot for 3-drops (as pretty much 95% of the time you don’t have 4-mana on turn 2, you have 3.). Even those that play BTE and visionary’s play 3-drops. It’s just (a) great spot for any deck with mana dorks) and (b) a cmc WOTC is more comfortable pushing/cramming value into.
My rule of thumb in Devotion tends to be that main-board cards either (a) ramp, (b) draw cards (create card advantage), (c) win the game, or (d) tutor for the first three :). Domri still fits this while also providing some really useful synergies when we need them (can’t be countered, removal, etc.). He’s never “dead” as he is always ramp and always a buff...i think you are right that this is a card that can compete in the 3-cmc slot in Devotion. The only real downside is that is has only 1 green symbol. I know that is not a huge downside...I’ve just found 3-drops with 2-3 symbols tend to be our best way to develop devotion early.
There was a Grull Devotion deck a while back that we worked on with the Grull hybrid cards from the Lorwyn period that this would slot extremely well in. I will find it later today and post it when I can.
Oh yea Prime Time is definitely better even with removal. He generates value and you can still recur him from the graveyard with this new Finale as well. Against control where they have no board presence, then Carney T may steal the game, but I think against most other decks, Prime Time is just better for sure.
The issue most people don't realize with Carnage Tyrant is that it really does die to removal, just not traditional point removal (technically, they may even know it has that weakness, but do not account for it). In the mental chess game, one brings in that kind of card against a control deck that is loaded up with Counter Magic or someone playing removal.dec. Game 2 the control player will either board edicts or board sweeps, since board sweeps that hit unilaterally are pretty cost effective. That's sort of why I like Prime Time over the dino most of the time. I figure he's going to die in those matchups one way or the other and the extra resources he brings to the table if he lands can help pull off a finisher.
Also I like Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner. She can untap Nikthos and gives card advantage on the bigger plays when our hand starts drying up. Plus, if they waste a turn killing her, that's one more turn or one less removal to deal with when we get to the good stuff. Heck, you can Bloodbraid right into her as well.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Oh yea Prime Time is definitely better even with removal. He generates value and you can still recur him from the graveyard with this new Finale as well. Against control where they have no board presence, then Carney T may steal the game, but I think against most other decks, Prime Time is just better for sure.
The issue most people don't realize with Carnage Tyrant is that it really does die to removal, just not traditional point removal (technically, they may even know it has that weakness, but do not account for it). In the mental chess game, one brings in that kind of card against a control deck that is loaded up with Counter Magic or someone playing removal.dec. Game 2 the control player will either board edicts or board sweeps, since board sweeps that hit unilaterally are pretty cost effective. That's sort of why I like Prime Time over the dino most of the time. I figure he's going to die in those matchups one way or the other and the extra resources he brings to the table if he lands can help pull off a finisher.
Also I like Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner. She can untap Nikthos and gives card advantage on the bigger plays when our hand starts drying up. Plus, if they waste a turn killing her, that's one more turn or one less removal to deal with when we get to the good stuff. Heck, you can Bloodbraid right into her as well.
I hadn’t thought of Bloodbraid. That’s interesting. But you are right that Kiora is a huge addition to Devotion. There may be a few decks that don’t use her...but a LOT of them will. I have been playing it in my Walker deck since it was spoiled and she has been incredible.
Oh yea Prime Time is definitely better even with removal. He generates value and you can still recur him from the graveyard with this new Finale as well. Against control where they have no board presence, then Carney T may steal the game, but I think against most other decks, Prime Time is just better for sure.
The issue most people don't realize with Carnage Tyrant is that it really does die to removal, just not traditional point removal (technically, they may even know it has that weakness, but do not account for it). In the mental chess game, one brings in that kind of card against a control deck that is loaded up with Counter Magic or someone playing removal.dec. Game 2 the control player will either board edicts or board sweeps, since board sweeps that hit unilaterally are pretty cost effective. That's sort of why I like Prime Time over the dino most of the time. I figure he's going to die in those matchups one way or the other and the extra resources he brings to the table if he lands can help pull off a finisher.
Also I like Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner. She can untap Nikthos and gives card advantage on the bigger plays when our hand starts drying up. Plus, if they waste a turn killing her, that's one more turn or one less removal to deal with when we get to the good stuff. Heck, you can Bloodbraid right into her as well.
I agree largely, but in context of the new card, I was just pointing out that a 17/16 Carnage Tyrant with haste ends the game a lot more consistently than a 16/16 Primeval Titan with haste (the fact that Tyrant dies to wraths and Liliana is irrelevant if you just kill with him on-turn). But in general, I largely agree with the statement he's not worth the space.
Wow if this new Finale card is real, that's insane. It basically reads, if I get to 12 mana and you can't counter this, I win. Can't wait to search up a Craterhoof with this for double the bonus!
As for 3-mana Domri, I think he could do some work. 3 mana is a good place to be for this deck.
I agree largely, but in context of the new card, I was just pointing out that a 17/16 Carnage Tyrant with haste ends the game a lot more consistently than a 16/16 Primeval Titan with haste (the fact that Tyrant dies to wraths and Liliana is irrelevant if you just kill with him on-turn). But in general, I largely agree with the statement he's not worth the space.
I get what you’re saying. It’s gonna get past things like Path, Trophy, etc.
I think it’s likely worth a slot in the board for sure (as there are decks where it will be superior to PrimeTime; and hard casting it against Control is still quite good). Of course they can have answers for it in boardwipes, discard, etc...but avoiding spot removal and counters is still a big deal.
Wow if this new Finale card is real, that's insane. It basically reads, if I get to 12 mana and you can't counter this, I win. Can't wait to search up a Craterhoof with this for double the bonus!
As for 3-mana Domri, I think he could do some work. 3 mana is a good place to be for this deck.
Yeah...I think the fact that it’s 3-cmc and can make mana (while giving Titans uncounterability) makes it a great 3-drop. I liked the 4-drop Domri at print because he gave haste and dig for Titans...but that is not really needed as much anymore if the new Finale card is as good as it appears.
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With Kiora, Domri, and Finale; I think we are in a really good place for all three Devotion Archetypes (Pact/Finale , Tooth and Nail, and Wave).
Kiora has made the Combo Walker Devotion very competitive as well (but until I post some results online with it I can’t claim it’s a true Devotion Archetype yet)...but in truth I really consider the Walker Combo deck a Wave Deck.
I think if we get Wild Growth we can Finale get to Tier status. If we get Growth AND something else; we are in extremely good shape.
For 10 mana, Progenitus is an instant win barring decks with lifegain. It's just quite hard to reach 10 mana in time nowadays. For Craterhoof to be excellent, the deck has to play more aggro dudes I suppose, like BTE and SL Champ.
About the new Domri, well here the deck must play good dudes to make its fight ability relevant. The ramp potential is less impressive than Kiora's, one must be better than the other in a given variant, so I don't see both of them sharing slots in a single list.
I think you're right Curdbros, it depends whether the archetype gets Wild Growth, and/or something that helps consistency early game. Like a GG or GGG permanent that draws cards or adds mana (something better than Wistful Selkie).
I actually quite like the idea of playing Steel Leaf Champion / Leatherback Baloth along with Kiora (since she lets us draw a card off big dudes). The deck feels more comfortable to play when we can favorably block opponent's creatures that pressure our PWs without dying (and wasting all the devotion we're trying to build).
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I like the boar more.
Restore Balance
Green Devotion
I have to agree...the boar seems far more pushed...why Again is the green creature smaller than the red...and the red has trample! Seems odd. The whole vigilance thing feels a little odd...and without giving trample double power can often be pointless if any chump blockers are around...kind of a let down. For things with trample it is great...but with no haste, no trample, and 5/5 for 5...may not make it to modern.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s not a bad card. It has interesting design. I was just hoping it would be unreal since the red one was so good.
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I am toying with the idea of Tamiyo in the place of my 1-of Eternal Witness. I know it costs 1 more mana; but it is never dead, has a static ability that works in a few match ups, and can always dig for combo pieces if there is nothing of value in the yard. I may test it. Wouldn’t be a big change at all; but just want to see if the extra cost is worth it.
2-cmc is a bit slow...It grabs all of our pieces...and 3 life is great. May be just a good filler card in some decks.
Agreed. I do think it is a good “filler” card (Exp. if you love your deck and just want to get to the pieces quickly) if you also play a good amount of enchantments and/or artifacts.
That will be one kinda bummer if they do print Wild Growth; as Oath of Nissa doesn’t hit enchantments...but there probably is still enough value there even just grabbing lands, walkers, and creatures. I tend to play it as a 3-of; but I would totally understand even post Wild Growth if people still play a full set.
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I’ve tested the new Walker Combo list quite a bit...and it got a LOT better with the addition of Kiora (and a 1-of Karn, the great creator). It is faster, has an additional win-con; and I’m to a point where I’m not entirely sure what to take away if something gets printed. I’m really excited to see how Kiora effects the other archetypes (especially Pact and Tooth and Nail lists).
Wild Growth would obviously push it even faster. With the addition of Kiora and Wild Growth; it pushed us to 3/4 of a turn faster (on average). With Wild Growth the deck would fall below 4-turns (on average). This is a big deal (as part of our difficulties came from the fact that we were a full turn slower than the best synergy decks in the format).
Per the Translation on Reddit:
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with cmc X or less and put it on the battlefield. If X is 10 or more, your creatures gain haste and +X/+X until eot.
This seems absolutely busted for us. Green Sun's Zenithfor one additional mana (with no color restriction and can search the graveyard)...but when we have 10+ it is a game ender. It doesn't shuffle back in to the deck; but the 10+ part is actually a big deal for us. This with the "Core" and Titan would likely be enough for a great deck...but it opens up a LOT more.
This comes from a "Cycle" posted on redit. May not end up being true...but looks pretty darn real (as they show the whole cycle in the picture including the red one already spoiled and they fit in the mythic count.
It acts as a craterhoof finisher as well as a tutor. I can foresee tutoring for avenger of zendikar and then smashing with plants. On the other hand, because it can tutor for any color creature, that opens up a nice toolbox for us...although I'm not convinced that a straight devotion deck really has room for a huge tutor package, as we want to stay close to green.
This might be just a good sticky card that can fill in the gaps of the deck...adding more consistently as well as another win condition. It could replace primal command as a gap filler, and allow us to play more acidic slimes/thragtusks/etc. It seems very powerful, but I'm not quite sure the number, or what the full composition of a devotion deck would be with it yet.
Also makes Rosheen Meanderer more interesting
Not sure if it's a card this deck wants to play, though. Primeval Titan does a similar job if your opponent doesn't have spot removal.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
In essence, it's a Green Sun's Zenith that is also a win-con. The fact that this deck is built to generate tons of mana makes it a perfect shell for it as we can utilize both modes of the card.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
On the other hand, a lot of the TNN variants run 1 Emrakul to go off with Xenagos, so from that lens it wouldn't be the first time to run a niche tutor target.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Restore Balance
Green Devotion
I agree. The Carnage Tyrant would likely be a great sideboard option agains both control and deck like Jund, etc. that have large amounts of spot removal. But I agree that most likely just a “traditional” deck running Titans is enough (the first Titan gets you the Nykthos; the second comes in at 16+ haste/trample.
It likely will give a little room for a slightly more “toolbox” board; but Grull is right that we do generally not stray from Green too much. Fortunately green has a lot to work with in that regard.
In reality, Chord is only 1-more mana with Convoke...at instant speed...but (a) that finisher text is really import to us, and (b) instant speed is a tiny bit less important to us as we tend to play a lot in the main. The finisher text is what would make this playable over other tutors. I could totally see this being played alongside Pact (or even Chord I’m certain more toolbox builds). That, and it can sort-of function at Tooth and Nail 5+ (although it is much harder to get to 17-mana than it is to 9-12 for Emrakul). It’s absolutely worth testing.
Obviously I would try it with wonky things like Primalcrux
I think this has been flying under the radar too. It is a lot we can use at 3-cmc in a creature-heavy build. It’s ramp, removal in a pinch, a buff for a deck that often floods the board, and uncounterability against on of our tougher match ups. I bought 3 pre-order as I see a lot of potential as well.
The 3-slot is an interesting one for us. I tend to play Elvish Visionary in a lot of my builds (or coiling Oracle when possible) which pushes the curve more into 2-1 range on turns where you don’t get turn-2 4-mana....but the vast majority of Devotion decks have a great spot for 3-drops (as pretty much 95% of the time you don’t have 4-mana on turn 2, you have 3.). Even those that play BTE and visionary’s play 3-drops. It’s just (a) great spot for any deck with mana dorks) and (b) a cmc WOTC is more comfortable pushing/cramming value into.
My rule of thumb in Devotion tends to be that main-board cards either (a) ramp, (b) draw cards (create card advantage), (c) win the game, or (d) tutor for the first three :). Domri still fits this while also providing some really useful synergies when we need them (can’t be countered, removal, etc.). He’s never “dead” as he is always ramp and always a buff...i think you are right that this is a card that can compete in the 3-cmc slot in Devotion. The only real downside is that is has only 1 green symbol. I know that is not a huge downside...I’ve just found 3-drops with 2-3 symbols tend to be our best way to develop devotion early.
There was a Grull Devotion deck a while back that we worked on with the Grull hybrid cards from the Lorwyn period that this would slot extremely well in. I will find it later today and post it when I can.
The issue most people don't realize with Carnage Tyrant is that it really does die to removal, just not traditional point removal (technically, they may even know it has that weakness, but do not account for it). In the mental chess game, one brings in that kind of card against a control deck that is loaded up with Counter Magic or someone playing removal.dec. Game 2 the control player will either board edicts or board sweeps, since board sweeps that hit unilaterally are pretty cost effective. That's sort of why I like Prime Time over the dino most of the time. I figure he's going to die in those matchups one way or the other and the extra resources he brings to the table if he lands can help pull off a finisher.
Also I like Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner. She can untap Nikthos and gives card advantage on the bigger plays when our hand starts drying up. Plus, if they waste a turn killing her, that's one more turn or one less removal to deal with when we get to the good stuff. Heck, you can Bloodbraid right into her as well.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I hadn’t thought of Bloodbraid. That’s interesting. But you are right that Kiora is a huge addition to Devotion. There may be a few decks that don’t use her...but a LOT of them will. I have been playing it in my Walker deck since it was spoiled and she has been incredible.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
As for 3-mana Domri, I think he could do some work. 3 mana is a good place to be for this deck.
I get what you’re saying. It’s gonna get past things like Path, Trophy, etc.
I think it’s likely worth a slot in the board for sure (as there are decks where it will be superior to PrimeTime; and hard casting it against Control is still quite good). Of course they can have answers for it in boardwipes, discard, etc...but avoiding spot removal and counters is still a big deal.
Yeah...I think the fact that it’s 3-cmc and can make mana (while giving Titans uncounterability) makes it a great 3-drop. I liked the 4-drop Domri at print because he gave haste and dig for Titans...but that is not really needed as much anymore if the new Finale card is as good as it appears.
______
With Kiora, Domri, and Finale; I think we are in a really good place for all three Devotion Archetypes (Pact/Finale , Tooth and Nail, and Wave).
Kiora has made the Combo Walker Devotion very competitive as well (but until I post some results online with it I can’t claim it’s a true Devotion Archetype yet)...but in truth I really consider the Walker Combo deck a Wave Deck.
I think if we get Wild Growth we can Finale get to Tier status. If we get Growth AND something else; we are in extremely good shape.
About the new Domri, well here the deck must play good dudes to make its fight ability relevant. The ramp potential is less impressive than Kiora's, one must be better than the other in a given variant, so I don't see both of them sharing slots in a single list.
I think you're right Curdbros, it depends whether the archetype gets Wild Growth, and/or something that helps consistency early game. Like a GG or GGG permanent that draws cards or adds mana (something better than Wistful Selkie).
I actually quite like the idea of playing Steel Leaf Champion / Leatherback Baloth along with Kiora (since she lets us draw a card off big dudes). The deck feels more comfortable to play when we can favorably block opponent's creatures that pressure our PWs without dying (and wasting all the devotion we're trying to build).