True...Polukranos has always been good; but I feel like he was somewhat of an afterthought in many decks and he has been one of the most useful (if not the most useful) card in the deck recently. He is now in my main board.
I'm kind of interested im Animation Module as well. The way it reads seems like it could add a counter to walkers as well...and for us that means an instant overrun the turn Garruk comes down...granted, it's a LOT to add for that effect, but at a 1-drop it could be played early with little concern and with creatures that add counters (Genesis Hydra, Reverent Hunter, Strangleroot Geist, many many more) it could be useful there too for a cheap addition. Certainly worth looking into.
New Nissa is incredible! A five drop that Ult's next turn untap a land and can make a beater with haste!!! Then it draws us cards so we can play another!!!
Planeswalker Devotion is my baby; and this may push it a little harder. Can't wait to test it!
I will try out 4 Madcap experiment with 2 platinum emperion in my tooth and nail list. You could run 1 of them but then there is fairly high chance of drawing your only copy before casting madcap experiment. Sure having one in your opening hand will likely be a mulligan but imagine casting madcap expirement turn two. You can do that with arbor elf, utopia sprawl and madcap in your opening hand.
What a fun idea! It would be pretty darn strong going turn one Arbor Elf, Turn Two Utopia Sprawl into Madcap into Platimum Emperiom New cards are so much fun.
I just took this deck into a 40 person tournament and finished 8th.
This deck eats any control match up. During the tournament I played Nahiri Jeskai 3 times and beat all three 2-0.
I have been really impressed with how Ruric Thar has been playing and have been thinking about moving the 2 from the sideboard into the mainboard. I would take out the Chord and something else. It just seems like any time I play Primeval Titan Ruric Thar could just finish the game better. Its just so strong against a lot of the modern meta game.
My question is do you guys think that 8 payoff cards is too many or about right?
Also have anyone tested Satyr Hedonist. It seems like it could be nice to sac it before doing a big G-Wave.
That new Nissa card will make my list. But it has more to do with being repeatable Ewit for me than card draw.
Is it just me or will madcap get emergency banned in modern? lol
Dragxson,
Welcome to the thread!
The fact that Ruric Thar sees so little play in Modern is disturbing. I am going to start playing him again. Hedonist seems less than optimal, he only nets 2 mana. As far as payoff cards... I played with Craterhoof b/c i like having haste on my win cons. 2 Craterhoof and 4 Gwaves was my setup when I ran a ramp into wave deck. Which I think is fine if you have Garruk to overrun with your dorks as plan B, and Xenagos ult as plan C. Primetime is just too slow for my tastes, though I constantly evolve my decks so im sure your one year with one deck is going to outweigh my old experiences.
1. The Garruk, Primal Hunter's may turn into Kiora, Master of the Depths...she works well getting stuff in the yard for Eternal Witness and Nissa, Vital Force. Garruk PH has just been doing so well that I can't take him out yet. Even if you only draw 4-6 cards off him with a Polukranos, Nissa Elemental Land creature, Temur Sabertooth, Woodland Belllower, and/or a LOT more with a Genesis Hydra...the fact that he actually "dies" immediately is nice for the deck (as it gives us something to return with Witness/Nissa and leads to some crazy "Garruk Loops". It ends up playing somewhat like a "green storm" deck when this happens (you draw 6, play Garruk WS, untap/retap lands for 12+ mana, play Witness recurring PH, play Garruk PH, draw six more...and traditionally you will draw into a walker that untaps the lands again to keep going...and you never run out of cards because you can refill your deck with Primal Command and bounce Eternal Witness with Temur Sabertooth.
2. I LOVE that the deck comes from so many angles...graveyard hate hurts us a little (because of Witness and Nissa), creature hate hurts a little more, Walker hate (as little as there is) hurts too, and land destruction is strong...but none completely shut the deck down...we top out at 6 (so land destruction can't completely kill us), can just attack many games for the win like a straight aggro deck (especially with 5/5 haste creatures and 3/3 Beasts filling up the board)...can overrun a small field for lethal...or can literally just bury the opponent in card advantage (I have already "ult'd" Nissa in four different games, Garruk PH draws a ton, Wintess/Command loops, etc.)
3. Nissa, Vital Force's ultimate is cool with Fetch Lands (as it draws two cards each turn) and is the reason I added another to the above list. I may go to 9 fetches; but I didn't want to go too overboard (as you do want to hit land drops).
4. Polukranos, World Eater has been spectacular. I know we all know this, but I wanted to keep pointing it out. I also have had games where I killed a board one turn, bounced him the next with Temur Sabertooth, and killed the new creatures they played. Also, as a 4-drop 5/5 that gets even bigger; it is great with Garruk PH.
5. The deck is actually extremely fast. I put Burning-Tree Emissary and Fertile Ground back in the deck to ensure the speed stayed at the rate I prefer. Wistful Selkie and Overgrowth work better (and are superior cards in many cases) wen you go a little bigger (i.e. play multiple 6+ CMC cards) and function better in certain builds...this build, however, gets SO much card advantage off of the walkers and loops that the front end needed to be the "speed" of the deck. Fertile Ground is not as exciting (I'm still waiting for the spoiler of Wild Growth ) but it is faster than Overgrowth in many of the lines in this deck. There are some decks where Overgrowth is nearly as fast; but creates more mana...however Fertile Ground is simply faster in this deck (I can explain more on this later).
___ (continued tomorrow)
Dragxson,
WELCOME!!!! I'm so glad you're here. What a great list.
And 8th out of 40 is extremely impressive...
I do agree Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is a GREAT card. It is one of those "symmetric" cards that looks like it can hurt us a lot too; but when we plan for it we can use it to shut down numerous opponents...you are right that we should probably have it in more lists. I tend to utilize it from the board (only because I play a LOT of walkers, enchantments, and Commands in the main deck); but I could 100% see a more creature-heavy list (with walkers/enchantments still as they generally will come out before Ruric...) that could be amazing playing Ruric Thar main....there are multiple decks in the format that just scoop to a resolved Ruric. Great point.
I'll have to look into your other questions/points a little more (as I haven't played Hedonist so I don't want to say anything definitively)...but thank you for posting. I love hearing about great performances at sizable tourneys.
Sweet list. My first thought is that 20 land is fine for most Devo decks but doesn't this list want more? Even with the 8 fetches, if the point is the emblem make it more likely to trigger, no? Maybe a creature that puts land out as well for sabertooth to bounce. Finks is great for life gain bounce. I think khalni heart expedition deserves a look too! Can't wait to see this put together.
Sweet list. My first thought is that 20 land is fine for most Devo decks but doesn't this list want more? Even with the 8 fetches, if the point is the emblem make it more likely to trigger, no? Maybe a creature that puts land out as well for sabertooth to bounce. I think khalni heart expedition deserves a look too! Can't wait to see this put together.
You are absolutely right...great intuitive point. I initially wanted to simply add another land to the deck (and run 61 cards); but I thought I would get a sea of comments on how 61 isn't optimum :). I may still do it; however. I did make sure to focus on how land drops differ in this deck; and if I'm seeing a trend wher I need more I definitely will add them.
Funilly enough...you can bounce witness to recur a fetch land which I've done many times...also, with an emblem out you could (if you where digging) recur a land with another Nissa VF too....there are so many intricate interactions (which is what make Modern such an awesome format and Greem Devition the best deck in it :).
You guys have already mentioned the awesomeness. A 5 Mana Planeswalker that makes a 5/5 until your next turn, which protects her against ground. And then she ultimates the following turn? Wait WHAT?!
Or she can be a specific Eternal Witness. Notice the "target permament card". So she can't recur Genesis Wave, Primal Command.
We obviously have to compare her with Nissa, Worldwaker for the CMC/Powerlevel.
The new Nissa strength lies less on the ramping aspect but on the card advantage side.
Important to note as well: "Untap target Land". Not Forest, so you can indeed untap Nykthos.
I have to contain my excitement, too many times I have over hyped cards which then turn out meh when playing. But she is a good Nissa, that's for sure.
The cool thing: she costs 5 Mana, while this is too much for the majority of modern decks. We can easily get there and this should keep the price down.
However; there still is the possibility for heavy standard play. Not sure if I should pre-order now.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: GNykthos Devotion - Eldrazi Tron - RW Boros Burn - UW UW Control
How about another shot at Doubling Season? Works with all our walkers to ult same turn, and doubles out hasty hydras. Garruk's card draw just screams Hydra + Doubling Season to me. In paper Genesis Hyra is better as it grabs whatever you need (Doubling Season if you don't have it) but online... Mistcutter it is.
Nissa VF isn't bad. Definitely serious potential. Not sure if I'll play her but, for mono-green builds looking for PW 5+, it's a great choice (along with the other old and previously mention standby, Nissa Ww). Do not confuse it for E.Witness though; she is not that card. Not even close.
Ruric Thar is a great card that has floated in and out of my SB. It has been out but I think it's time to come back. I just realized how badly this thing mauls Suicide Zoo (and isn't kind to TBR Zoo either). That said, it dislikes one of my other great cards in this match: Primal Command. Ah well.
Madcap Experiment is very well balanced. Other cards like Polymorph have existed in this vein before, and not been broken. In this case, it will be kept in check by the fact that it requires a library full of "win the game" artifacts (at least 12), or it risks killing you on casting it.
How about another shot at Doubling Season? Works with all our walkers to ult same turn, and doubles out hasty hydras. Garruk's card draw just screams Hydra + Doubling Season to me. In paper Genesis Hyra is better as it grabs whatever you need (Doubling Season if you don't have it) but online... Mistcutter it is.
Doubling Season is actually not a bad idea at all...with four different walkers that all can "go off" the turn they are played and some that even stick around after...it certainly may be worth it (even if just as a 1-of or in the board for a quick win...) Neat idea.
You guys have already mentioned the awesomeness. A 5 Mana Planeswalker that makes a 5/5 until your next turn, which protects her against ground. And then she ultimates the following turn? Wait WHAT?!
Or she can be a specific Eternal Witness. Notice the "target permament card". So she can't recur Genesis Wave, Primal Command.
We obviously have to compare her with Nissa, Worldwaker for the CMC/Powerlevel.
The new Nissa strength lies less on the ramping aspect but on the card advantage side.
Important to note as well: "Untap target Land". Not Forest, so you can indeed untap Nykthos.
I have to contain my excitement, too many times I have over hyped cards which then turn out meh when playing. But she is a good Nissa, that's for sure.
The cool thing: she costs 5 Mana, while this is too much for the majority of modern decks. We can easily get there and this should keep the price down.
However; there still is the possibility for heavy standard play. Not sure if I should pre-order now.
Good points...but that is the fun of spoilers You can get all excited, test new cards with the hopes they improve the deck a little more; and then if they don't, you still have an awesome deck Her power level is certainly there. Her price will be completely dependent on if she finds a home in Standard. I keep up with Standard (although I don't really play it) and two things come to mind...it looks like Standard is probably going to be a bit faster than it was before rotation (not sure if it could get any slower) so that could definitely keep her price down. If there is any green ramp, however, she would be a great fit. If there is some form of "super friends" build with her and Chandra (and/or Arlinn Kord) she will probably stay around her current level...I think the only way she goes up is if she hits a few standard decks and somehow sees play in Jund (as Evan Erwin suggested...but to be honest I'm not sure I see it..they'd probably rather play the new Chandra). I'm SCG's favorite type of client...I buy straight into the hype in every spoiler season so I already bought a playset; but I think you may be ok if you wait (as 90% of all cards drop a week or two after the set comes out).
Nissa VF isn't bad. Definitely serious potential. Not sure if I'll play her but, for mono-green builds looking for PW 5+, it's a great choice (along with the other old and previously mention standby, Nissa Ww). Do not confuse it for E.Witness though; she is not that card. Not even close.
Ruric Thar is a great card that has floated in and out of my SB. It has been out but I think it's time to come back. I just realized how badly this thing mauls Suicide Zoo (and isn't kind to TBR Zoo either). That said, it dislikes one of my other great cards in this match: Primal Command. Ah well.
Madcap Experiment is very well balanced. Other cards like Polymorph have existed in this vein before, and not been broken. In this case, it will be kept in check by the fact that it requires a library full of "win the game" artifacts (at least 12), or it risks killing you on casting it.
I'm not sure we will ever see another Eternal Witness...just so much value. Although with the power and "value creep" I'm seeing on creatures you never know But you are right that "return a permanent" is very different from "return a card". I do like the mmild/semi- "redundancy" her -3 gives us, however (as many of the Devotion builds are relatively permanent-heavy.
Agreed on Ruric Thar...amazing card; but can be difficult to "main" because of it's interactions with other "staples" in many decks (Garruk, Command, Wave, etc.).
Gosh...another crazy card for bouncing Burning-Tree Emissary's...Aetherflux Reservior...we gotta try, right? Below is a non-tuned idea that probably throws a little too much in; but shows the fun that can be had with these artifacts.
The interaction between Kitchen Finks, Nylea's Disciple, and Aetherflux Reservoir is interesting. Makes for a potential win-con that comes from a different angle.
I don't know if it is ever really possible to make artifacts like this work in a super competitive deck; but they've certainly given us enough tools to make it far more possible than it ever was before. If I find time outside of testing/playing my Walker Devotion deck, I will try to give this one some reps too...but my focus right now is on the Walker deck (as I think or at least hope Nissa VF may have added a potential link that makes it even more competitive).
Nissa VF on Nykthos then bounce with Temur sabertooth, play and mana loop. Im sure youve already seen this, but it was worth pointing out.
And turn two Khalni Heart Expedition works best paired with Harrow turn two expedition into turn three land drop plus Harrow equals four land searches on three.
Went 4-0 yesterday, 19 people showed up. Played against Merfolk, Burn, Scapeshift and Dredge, only lost G1 against Dredge.
Used Lunik’s list with a few tweaks. Wasn’t sure about the Selkies at first, but they are really good! This is by far the most consistent version I’ve played so far, just seems to do what it’s supposed to every game.
Have you seen the card Wildest Dreams?! Is there a place for this card on our decks??
Not being a creature makes it hard to tutor. If it didn't exile itself, I'd certainly try to fit it anyway. Since it does, I'd rather just rely on E.Witness chains.
Thanks for posting your list. It looks pretty darn good. Consistency is a BIG deal for decks like ours; so tuning a list that well is a big boon. Well done.
I totally agree that Wistful Selkie is a great card in devotion. I generally play either Selkie or BTE in lists as the best "devotion enablers". It depends on the curve quite a bit; but I tend play BTE when I want the deck to speed up and already have a ton of card draw; and use Selkie when I need more card draw in a deck that is a little lower curve/faster). I'm glad it's worked out so well for you!
I also really like what you've done with the board. I think our boards generally are best when they are either (a) toolbox boards with many 1-ofs (in decks with multiple tutors, etc.) or (b) 4-6 cards that deal with the worst match ups in high enough amounts to ensure you draw them.
____
Nissa, Vital Force is a house in the Green Walker deck The aspects that seem to make the most impact thus far I've found have been:
1. The 5/5's just do so much work...she also untaps the land so you gt to use it anyways before making it a 5/5 (so essentially she only "costs" 4 mana and then makes a 5/5 with haste.)
3. The fact that she goes up to 6 loyalty is huge. It makes her extremely difficult to kill. Becomes pseudo "gain six life" if they want to get rid of her. While this is true of all walkers, it becomes more of a factor when (a) a walker gets to 5+ loyalty after their first trigger, (b) the walker threatens ultimate quickly.
3. Her Emblem is nuts...I played a super grindy game against a really well put together Abzan deck this afternoon and I won with two emblems on the board. Every fetch land was drawing four cards...within two turns I went from way behind to WAY ahead.
I haven't used her recursion as much as the other two; but when it is used it become a blowout (recurring a Polukranos to wipe the board, recuring a witness to start a Command loop, etc.). It is a great and extremely usable ability (especially in a deck that naturally wants to be permanent heavy in the first place and one that plays multiple cards that are affected by the Legendary Rule)...but it is probably the tool I've used the least thus far.
Nissa seems to fit very well in the Walker deck (as 5-CMC is a great place for the deck). She:
1. is in immediate threat
2. sticks on the board due to its loyalty (good for card advantage, pseudo "life gain", and devotion),
3. can continue mana/walker loops by untapping Nykthos,
4. can allow us to bounce a Nykthos with Sabertooth
5. can create an emblem that puts us way out of reach for many decks in the format.
6. can ult, getting us a card in the yard for Witness to recur in an otherwise permanent-heavy deck (just like Garruk Wildspeaker)
There are other smaller interactions as well. I'm just very happy with the card. Will keep you posted as I play it more.
As I expected...I went back to the good old deck/card I started with long ago....Kiora, Master of the Depths.
The fact that every Walker +'s to untap is huge. You don't get the silly card draw that you can from GPH; but you don't really need it either (at least 95% of the time)...it's just too much value and ramp for most decks to deal with.
I love the ridiculous card draw from Garruk PH (and I am working on getting him back in the board at minimum for theatre ups his card draw is a blowout)...but Kiora is just too good in this build :). She digs to Nykthos's and She even puts more cards in the yard for Witness and Nissa to recur!
When nearly every card over 2-CMC is a 2-for-1 or more; you don't need a few 5-6for-1's
I promise I will try 1-2 Doubling Season as well. It could be a useful/powerful 1-of.
---
Testing today/tonight with the above (and a Very similar board to the last posted) left me with a record of 16-4 in matches (best of 3 games). Obviously I ran hot (and I'm sure it would not be as high after 100+ matches.). Also, may have not played the worst match ups for this build in particular (match ups may differ slightly now...although I did play not Ponza and infect multiple times...
I just don't want it to sound like this deck is gonna maintain an 80% match win % based on such a small sample. The % matters less than just getting a "feel" for the competitiveness of the deck.
I'll post sideboard shortly (but it's very similar to recent posts (as to be honest the only real changes to the deck from prior builds is BTE instead of Selkies and the addition of Nissa Vital Force.
I'm kind of interested im Animation Module as well. The way it reads seems like it could add a counter to walkers as well...and for us that means an instant overrun the turn Garruk comes down...granted, it's a LOT to add for that effect, but at a 1-drop it could be played early with little concern and with creatures that add counters (Genesis Hydra, Reverent Hunter, Strangleroot Geist, many many more) it could be useful there too for a cheap addition. Certainly worth looking into.
Planeswalker Devotion is my baby; and this may push it a little harder. Can't wait to test it!
What a fun idea! It would be pretty darn strong going turn one Arbor Elf, Turn Two Utopia Sprawl into Madcap into Platimum Emperiom New cards are so much fun.
I have been playing green devotion for about a year now and just had some questions but to start off with my current decklist is right here
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Oath of Nissa
3 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Beast Within
1 Nest Invader
2 Sarkhan Vol
2 Primeval Titan
1 Chord of Calling
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Windswept Heath
1 Stomping Ground
8 Forest
3 Primal Command
2 Chord of Calling
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Spellskite
1 Beast Within
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dismember
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Acidic Slime
1 Hornet Queen
I just took this deck into a 40 person tournament and finished 8th.
This deck eats any control match up. During the tournament I played Nahiri Jeskai 3 times and beat all three 2-0.
I have been really impressed with how Ruric Thar has been playing and have been thinking about moving the 2 from the sideboard into the mainboard. I would take out the Chord and something else. It just seems like any time I play Primeval Titan Ruric Thar could just finish the game better. Its just so strong against a lot of the modern meta game.
My question is do you guys think that 8 payoff cards is too many or about right?
Also have anyone tested Satyr Hedonist. It seems like it could be nice to sac it before doing a big G-Wave.
Is it just me or will madcap get emergency banned in modern? lol
Dragxson,
Welcome to the thread!
The fact that Ruric Thar sees so little play in Modern is disturbing. I am going to start playing him again. Hedonist seems less than optimal, he only nets 2 mana. As far as payoff cards... I played with Craterhoof b/c i like having haste on my win cons. 2 Craterhoof and 4 Gwaves was my setup when I ran a ramp into wave deck. Which I think is fine if you have Garruk to overrun with your dorks as plan B, and Xenagos ult as plan C. Primetime is just too slow for my tastes, though I constantly evolve my decks so im sure your one year with one deck is going to outweigh my old experiences.
Some of my decks:
Oath Walker Devo - Modern
Stompy - Modern
Battle of Wits - Modern
Teysa's Sac Circus - EDH
Rob's 450 Unpowered - Cube
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Eternal Witness
1x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Temur Sabertooth
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Genesis Hydra
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
2x Fertile Ground
Planeswalkers
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
3x Nissa, Vital Force
3x Primal Command
Land
8x Green Fetch Lands
8x Forest
4x Nykthos
Few Notes (...updating currently....):
1. The Garruk, Primal Hunter's may turn into Kiora, Master of the Depths...she works well getting stuff in the yard for Eternal Witness and Nissa, Vital Force. Garruk PH has just been doing so well that I can't take him out yet. Even if you only draw 4-6 cards off him with a Polukranos, Nissa Elemental Land creature, Temur Sabertooth, Woodland Belllower, and/or a LOT more with a Genesis Hydra...the fact that he actually "dies" immediately is nice for the deck (as it gives us something to return with Witness/Nissa and leads to some crazy "Garruk Loops". It ends up playing somewhat like a "green storm" deck when this happens (you draw 6, play Garruk WS, untap/retap lands for 12+ mana, play Witness recurring PH, play Garruk PH, draw six more...and traditionally you will draw into a walker that untaps the lands again to keep going...and you never run out of cards because you can refill your deck with Primal Command and bounce Eternal Witness with Temur Sabertooth.
2. I LOVE that the deck comes from so many angles...graveyard hate hurts us a little (because of Witness and Nissa), creature hate hurts a little more, Walker hate (as little as there is) hurts too, and land destruction is strong...but none completely shut the deck down...we top out at 6 (so land destruction can't completely kill us), can just attack many games for the win like a straight aggro deck (especially with 5/5 haste creatures and 3/3 Beasts filling up the board)...can overrun a small field for lethal...or can literally just bury the opponent in card advantage (I have already "ult'd" Nissa in four different games, Garruk PH draws a ton, Wintess/Command loops, etc.)
3. Nissa, Vital Force's ultimate is cool with Fetch Lands (as it draws two cards each turn) and is the reason I added another to the above list. I may go to 9 fetches; but I didn't want to go too overboard (as you do want to hit land drops).
4. Polukranos, World Eater has been spectacular. I know we all know this, but I wanted to keep pointing it out. I also have had games where I killed a board one turn, bounced him the next with Temur Sabertooth, and killed the new creatures they played. Also, as a 4-drop 5/5 that gets even bigger; it is great with Garruk PH.
5. The deck is actually extremely fast. I put Burning-Tree Emissary and Fertile Ground back in the deck to ensure the speed stayed at the rate I prefer. Wistful Selkie and Overgrowth work better (and are superior cards in many cases) wen you go a little bigger (i.e. play multiple 6+ CMC cards) and function better in certain builds...this build, however, gets SO much card advantage off of the walkers and loops that the front end needed to be the "speed" of the deck. Fertile Ground is not as exciting (I'm still waiting for the spoiler of Wild Growth ) but it is faster than Overgrowth in many of the lines in this deck. There are some decks where Overgrowth is nearly as fast; but creates more mana...however Fertile Ground is simply faster in this deck (I can explain more on this later).
___ (continued tomorrow)
Dragxson,
WELCOME!!!! I'm so glad you're here. What a great list.
And 8th out of 40 is extremely impressive...
I do agree Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is a GREAT card. It is one of those "symmetric" cards that looks like it can hurt us a lot too; but when we plan for it we can use it to shut down numerous opponents...you are right that we should probably have it in more lists. I tend to utilize it from the board (only because I play a LOT of walkers, enchantments, and Commands in the main deck); but I could 100% see a more creature-heavy list (with walkers/enchantments still as they generally will come out before Ruric...) that could be amazing playing Ruric Thar main....there are multiple decks in the format that just scoop to a resolved Ruric. Great point.
I'll have to look into your other questions/points a little more (as I haven't played Hedonist so I don't want to say anything definitively)...but thank you for posting. I love hearing about great performances at sizable tourneys.
Some of my decks:
Oath Walker Devo - Modern
Stompy - Modern
Battle of Wits - Modern
Teysa's Sac Circus - EDH
Rob's 450 Unpowered - Cube
You are absolutely right...great intuitive point. I initially wanted to simply add another land to the deck (and run 61 cards); but I thought I would get a sea of comments on how 61 isn't optimum :). I may still do it; however. I did make sure to focus on how land drops differ in this deck; and if I'm seeing a trend wher I need more I definitely will add them.
Funilly enough...you can bounce witness to recur a fetch land which I've done many times...also, with an emblem out you could (if you where digging) recur a land with another Nissa VF too....there are so many intricate interactions (which is what make Modern such an awesome format and Greem Devition the best deck in it :).
You guys have already mentioned the awesomeness. A 5 Mana Planeswalker that makes a 5/5 until your next turn, which protects her against ground. And then she ultimates the following turn? Wait WHAT?!
Or she can be a specific Eternal Witness. Notice the "target permament card". So she can't recur Genesis Wave, Primal Command.
We obviously have to compare her with Nissa, Worldwaker for the CMC/Powerlevel.
The new Nissa strength lies less on the ramping aspect but on the card advantage side.
Important to note as well: "Untap target Land". Not Forest, so you can indeed untap Nykthos.
I have to contain my excitement, too many times I have over hyped cards which then turn out meh when playing. But she is a good Nissa, that's for sure.
The cool thing: she costs 5 Mana, while this is too much for the majority of modern decks. We can easily get there and this should keep the price down.
However; there still is the possibility for heavy standard play. Not sure if I should pre-order now.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Mistcutter Hydra
Enchantment
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Doubling season
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
2x Nissa, Vital Force
3x Kiora, Master of Depths
Land
8x Green Fetch Lands
8x Forest
2x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos
How about another shot at Doubling Season? Works with all our walkers to ult same turn, and doubles out hasty hydras. Garruk's card draw just screams Hydra + Doubling Season to me. In paper Genesis Hyra is better as it grabs whatever you need (Doubling Season if you don't have it) but online... Mistcutter it is.
Some of my decks:
Oath Walker Devo - Modern
Stompy - Modern
Battle of Wits - Modern
Teysa's Sac Circus - EDH
Rob's 450 Unpowered - Cube
Ruric Thar is a great card that has floated in and out of my SB. It has been out but I think it's time to come back. I just realized how badly this thing mauls Suicide Zoo (and isn't kind to TBR Zoo either). That said, it dislikes one of my other great cards in this match: Primal Command. Ah well.
Madcap Experiment is very well balanced. Other cards like Polymorph have existed in this vein before, and not been broken. In this case, it will be kept in check by the fact that it requires a library full of "win the game" artifacts (at least 12), or it risks killing you on casting it.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Doubling Season is actually not a bad idea at all...with four different walkers that all can "go off" the turn they are played and some that even stick around after...it certainly may be worth it (even if just as a 1-of or in the board for a quick win...) Neat idea.
Good points...but that is the fun of spoilers You can get all excited, test new cards with the hopes they improve the deck a little more; and then if they don't, you still have an awesome deck Her power level is certainly there. Her price will be completely dependent on if she finds a home in Standard. I keep up with Standard (although I don't really play it) and two things come to mind...it looks like Standard is probably going to be a bit faster than it was before rotation (not sure if it could get any slower) so that could definitely keep her price down. If there is any green ramp, however, she would be a great fit. If there is some form of "super friends" build with her and Chandra (and/or Arlinn Kord) she will probably stay around her current level...I think the only way she goes up is if she hits a few standard decks and somehow sees play in Jund (as Evan Erwin suggested...but to be honest I'm not sure I see it..they'd probably rather play the new Chandra). I'm SCG's favorite type of client...I buy straight into the hype in every spoiler season so I already bought a playset; but I think you may be ok if you wait (as 90% of all cards drop a week or two after the set comes out).
I'm not sure we will ever see another Eternal Witness...just so much value. Although with the power and "value creep" I'm seeing on creatures you never know But you are right that "return a permanent" is very different from "return a card". I do like the mmild/semi- "redundancy" her -3 gives us, however (as many of the Devotion builds are relatively permanent-heavy.
Agreed on Ruric Thar...amazing card; but can be difficult to "main" because of it's interactions with other "staples" in many decks (Garruk, Command, Wave, etc.).
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Eternal Witness
1x Nylea's Disciple
1x Temur Sabertooth
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
Artifact
3x Panharmonicon
3x Cloudstone Curio
1x Aetherflux Reservior
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Xengos, the Reveler
The interaction between Kitchen Finks, Nylea's Disciple, and Aetherflux Reservoir is interesting. Makes for a potential win-con that comes from a different angle.
I don't know if it is ever really possible to make artifacts like this work in a super competitive deck; but they've certainly given us enough tools to make it far more possible than it ever was before. If I find time outside of testing/playing my Walker Devotion deck, I will try to give this one some reps too...but my focus right now is on the Walker deck (as I think or at least hope Nissa VF may have added a potential link that makes it even more competitive).
And turn two Khalni Heart Expedition works best paired with Harrow turn two expedition into turn three land drop plus Harrow equals four land searches on three.
Used Lunik’s list with a few tweaks. Wasn’t sure about the Selkies at first, but they are really good! This is by far the most consistent version I’ve played so far, just seems to do what it’s supposed to every game.
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
3x Eternal Witness
4x Kitchen Finks
1x Primeval Titan
1x Tireless Tracker
4x Wistful Selkie
1x Khalni Hydra
Planeswalker (7)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Kiora, Master of the Depths
1x Breeding Pool
5x Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Stomping Ground
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Enchantment (8)
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
Sorcery (4)
2x Genesis Wave
2x Primal Command
4x Stone Rain
4x Fog
4x Negate
3x Scavenging Ooze
Not being a creature makes it hard to tutor. If it didn't exile itself, I'd certainly try to fit it anyway. Since it does, I'd rather just rely on E.Witness chains.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Thanks for posting your list. It looks pretty darn good. Consistency is a BIG deal for decks like ours; so tuning a list that well is a big boon. Well done.
I totally agree that Wistful Selkie is a great card in devotion. I generally play either Selkie or BTE in lists as the best "devotion enablers". It depends on the curve quite a bit; but I tend play BTE when I want the deck to speed up and already have a ton of card draw; and use Selkie when I need more card draw in a deck that is a little lower curve/faster). I'm glad it's worked out so well for you!
I also really like what you've done with the board. I think our boards generally are best when they are either (a) toolbox boards with many 1-ofs (in decks with multiple tutors, etc.) or (b) 4-6 cards that deal with the worst match ups in high enough amounts to ensure you draw them.
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Nissa, Vital Force is a house in the Green Walker deck The aspects that seem to make the most impact thus far I've found have been:
1. The 5/5's just do so much work...she also untaps the land so you gt to use it anyways before making it a 5/5 (so essentially she only "costs" 4 mana and then makes a 5/5 with haste.)
3. The fact that she goes up to 6 loyalty is huge. It makes her extremely difficult to kill. Becomes pseudo "gain six life" if they want to get rid of her. While this is true of all walkers, it becomes more of a factor when (a) a walker gets to 5+ loyalty after their first trigger, (b) the walker threatens ultimate quickly.
3. Her Emblem is nuts...I played a super grindy game against a really well put together Abzan deck this afternoon and I won with two emblems on the board. Every fetch land was drawing four cards...within two turns I went from way behind to WAY ahead.
I haven't used her recursion as much as the other two; but when it is used it become a blowout (recurring a Polukranos to wipe the board, recuring a witness to start a Command loop, etc.). It is a great and extremely usable ability (especially in a deck that naturally wants to be permanent heavy in the first place and one that plays multiple cards that are affected by the Legendary Rule)...but it is probably the tool I've used the least thus far.
Nissa seems to fit very well in the Walker deck (as 5-CMC is a great place for the deck). She:
1. is in immediate threat
2. sticks on the board due to its loyalty (good for card advantage, pseudo "life gain", and devotion),
3. can continue mana/walker loops by untapping Nykthos,
4. can allow us to bounce a Nykthos with Sabertooth
5. can create an emblem that puts us way out of reach for many decks in the format.
6. can ult, getting us a card in the yard for Witness to recur in an otherwise permanent-heavy deck (just like Garruk Wildspeaker)
There are other smaller interactions as well. I'm just very happy with the card. Will keep you posted as I play it more.
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Eternal Witness
1x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Temur Sabertooth
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Genesis Hydra
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
2x Fertile Ground
Planeswalkers
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Kiora, Master of the Depths
3x Nissa, Vital Force
3x Primal Command
Land
8x Green Fetch Lands
7x Forest
1x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
As I expected...I went back to the good old deck/card I started with long ago....Kiora, Master of the Depths.
The fact that every Walker +'s to untap is huge. You don't get the silly card draw that you can from GPH; but you don't really need it either (at least 95% of the time)...it's just too much value and ramp for most decks to deal with.
I love the ridiculous card draw from Garruk PH (and I am working on getting him back in the board at minimum for theatre ups his card draw is a blowout)...but Kiora is just too good in this build :). She digs to Nykthos's and She even puts more cards in the yard for Witness and Nissa to recur!
When nearly every card over 2-CMC is a 2-for-1 or more; you don't need a few 5-6for-1's
I promise I will try 1-2 Doubling Season as well. It could be a useful/powerful 1-of.
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Testing today/tonight with the above (and a Very similar board to the last posted) left me with a record of 16-4 in matches (best of 3 games). Obviously I ran hot (and I'm sure it would not be as high after 100+ matches.). Also, may have not played the worst match ups for this build in particular (match ups may differ slightly now...although I did play not Ponza and infect multiple times...
I just don't want it to sound like this deck is gonna maintain an 80% match win % based on such a small sample. The % matters less than just getting a "feel" for the competitiveness of the deck.
I'll post sideboard shortly (but it's very similar to recent posts (as to be honest the only real changes to the deck from prior builds is BTE instead of Selkies and the addition of Nissa Vital Force.