All right, time to answer some questions about my list. First of all, I used to play 20 lands but I kept getting flooded so I lowered it. I used to play fetches and splash white, but then cards people sided in to deal with Nykthos got much better and that is something I'm choosing to avoid.
Voyaging Satyr over birds of paradise because it untaps Nykthos and enchanted lands, which is huge because my deck is (Emphasis on this) a big mana deck. Birds of Paradise it is a one mana +1 mana which gets outclassed by Voyaging Satyr, a 2-mana card with 2 toughness (Gut shot) that produces a huge amount of mana. I generally win by using Sabertooth/Terastodon/Slime to lock my opponent's mana sources and hardcast Emrakul.
Temur Sabertooth is very, very good when it is good. Tron doesn't usually concede to an Acidic Slime, but destroying one land per turn shuts them down. It's ability makes it indestructible, which is quite relevant and it's bounce can give me another cast trigger from Emrakul. Also, it doesn't target a creature, so it can't be fizzled by spot removal. There are too many relevant targets for me to begin to explain all of them, but I will say it's good with Haze Frog.
Karametra's Acolyte is good for when I don't have Nykthos, and it can usually be cast turn 2 or 3 to produce 4+ mana the next. It also doesn't die to bolt and is a really good blocker, so I've even been considering moving up to 2.
No Xenagos is because T&N isn't as much of an "Oops, I win" card in my deck as a value card. I usually get some combination of Emrakul, Terastodon, and Griselbrand depening on the situation. I also feel like I just don't NEED to win right away when I cast it.
Griselbrand is usually put into play using Chord or T&N, but I can also cast it using black devotion from Creakwood Liege (lol) or Utopia Sprawls with untaps.
I'm not running Garruk because I have Voyaging Satyr which is faster and Acolyte, which does the same thing. I don't attack with my non-bomb creatures, and I'm always using my mana. I also just don't really have space for it. I have like 3 of them sitting around, but haven't found them to be super good for me. Maybe sideboard for Jund or other interactive decks.
To summarize, my deck functions drastically differently from any of these other decks because I generate a ton of mana and grind my opponent through the ground using EWit, Acidic Slime, Primal Command, and Sabertooth. To put this into perspective, I normally win by hard casting Emrakul, usually turn 5 or 6. When I do it later than that, it's because I've been destroying my opponent's lands. I don't need four and six drops to win the game because I go straight from three to eight mana. I hope this helps.
Okay, I'll explain the weird choices a little bit. I found myself losing to affinity and infect a lot, and Nahiri was also really annoying. And so many decks run lightning bolt, that I added the Wild Defiance to protect my mana makers (they're the most important part of the deck). Haze Frog is the absolute nuts because it is a Chord target that can come down T3-4 against aggressive decks and forms a combat lock with Temur Sabertooth. Also Tron and Turns are abundant in my meta, so Beast withins are there to help. Striking down Nahiri is a bonus too. Company, Abzan, and most fair decks other than Jund are really easy matchups because I just do so much so fast. Burn should be a good matchup, but I always find myself losing to it. This may be because I've not played against it with Leatherback yet, however. I'm considering also for the sideboard Ascetism, Thrun, the Last Troll, Root Maze, and Nylea's Disciple.
Against burn I find Primal Command to be really good. Also if you wanted to try something funny just try ramping into Orbs of Warding and hope they don't run artifact destruction. ;D
I guess Chord into new sigarda would work too. Really though looping primal command with E witness should be more than enough. Of course variance will get us all at times.
Don't get me wrong though...I am just trying the above cards to see their viability/interactions in Modern Devotion. It does not mean they are any better (or even useable when compared to) things like Primetime, Craterhoof, Command, etc.). I just made a goal of trying to find every "reasonable" green devotion card/interaction to discuss them.
Was wondering if the Sovereigns of Lost Alara plus Eldrazi Conscription would be good in a Green Devotion deck. As its own Modern Conscription Meta, the deck is just a casual build that dies to one for one trades in the first 4 turns but if one can set up an explosive G-Wave. Inside the deck would be either 3 Sovereigns of Lost Alara and 2 Eldrazi Conscription plus Lotus Cobras and Birds of Paradise for extra mana fixing how would that work? The Modern Conscription kills in a God Draw 3rd turn based on fetch bombing the Lotus Cobra but a Genesis Hydra into a Sovereigns or a Wargate into a Sovereigns looks like a good game win condition that is way fun too. If the deck can include disruption like Plow Under to slow down opponents or use the blue from Kiora for devotion blue floating it might be a nice option. Hardcasting the Eldrazi conscription on anything with xenagod is also a nice idea with stuff like Primalcrux as good G devotion fuel for Genesis Hydra. What do you guys think? Also want a Ruric Thar inside this build. If a set of SoA looks too clunky, we can get it down to at least 2 of the spirits. On its own as the only card you hold back in your hand, SoA with 2 Eldrazi conscriptions inside the deck is still a bomb when you both go hellbent trading one for ones.
Two things. First, regarding Hunter, Bellower, and Nylea: These are strong cards, but they also compete with strong cards. I also dislike depending overmuch on Devotion (we already do) but, as we do run 8+ enchantments these days, recovering to 5 Devotion doesn’t look that hard. I don’t think I’m likely to adopt these, but I don’t think that should dissuade anyone that wants to.
Second, regarding Sabertooth and the style presented by ProTourPlayer: I’m going to go ahead and declare right now that this will be a new and distinct type of devotion deck. While Sabertooth has long been integrated into Traditional- and Toolbox-builds, never-before has a devotion deck really focused on the recurring ETB effects as a primary thing.
However, we do have another deck in the distant magic past (when I started) that has done almost this exact thing. Seth Burn’s 1998 Stupid Green Deck focused on generating a bunch of mana in the early turns and with a mixture of mid-range creatures, mana-control, and recursion effects would grind opponents out. This was the deck that proved Green could do control.
I will try to playtest this once I get the Kioras.
The singleton Baloth is just there to provide a target for spot removal if it comes out 2nd turn or beat face if the opponent needs to set up.
also thinking of sneaking in one Finest Hour just to get a second combat phase out of any beaters and trigger Xenagos for a multiplier pump--it might work in a Primalcrux build on its own as a 2 of with out the whole Bant Conscription put together. It can come out of a Genesis Wave bomb. Try Xenagos, Finest Hour and a Primalcrux or Deus of Calamity in another G devotion aggro build. may be Finest Hour deserves its own place in most aggro casual builds that can fix mana for the UW part of the cmc.
If you're running Lotus Cobra, you should probably also be running fetchlands. This can give you five mana on turn 3 using just the Cobra, and it can splice for a Sovereigns. However, I do think that this wincon seems clunky, especially since you're playing the same number of Sovereigns as Conscriptions and because Sovereigns costs two mana other than green to cast. Playing fetchlands and some number of Breeding Pool should help in a plethora of ways.
Excuse me, but as someone who promoted the use of Cloudstone Curio before the existence of Sabertooth; I can promise ETB effects have been examined at length :).
All kidding aside; Sabertooth is a different beast altogether due to his ability to bounce at instant speed (less combo, more control).
As a 4-drop that needs to utilize its ability to get value; Lord and ProTour are right that the best fit is in a more controlling/disrupting build (as it requires time to set up). I'm excited to see where it goes! I would LOVE to put another archetype on the primer (especially if it is one that speaks to a more control-oriented green Mage). Keep up the awesome discussion.
It does bring back some memories though (and plenty of cards to try again)
---
In terms of Nylea and Hunter; you are right about them being Devotion-centric; but Nylea only requires 4 outside of herself; and Hunter is "worth it"'at a devotion of 5 (as he becomes a 6/6 for three and tends to outclass nearly everything).
I would like to hear your thoughts on Acolyte vs. Garruk. It has the same devotion-centric issue as the above (in a different way however as it "pays for itself" at a devotion of 4 on the next turn) or just on Acolyte in general.
I actually tried the Standard "infinite devotion" deck (with Temur Ascendancy, Acolyte, Sabertooth, & G.Hydra) and I quite liked Acolyte there...I never played it much for fear it was too slow; but it does dodge bolt and decay so there may be some real potential.
The issue with all of these cards; however is the same issue with every "potential" card in devotion. Because of the mechanic; we simply have more cards "available" to us than most Modern decks. It's finding the right mix of 75, curve, etc. that makes the magic
I'm excited to hear more about "Devotion Control"! I love when new decks spark conversation. Hopefully the community can post a result or two and/or get some exposure to a list (via a pro, streamer, results, etc.). This community is great at making decks the best they can be...so I'm excited to see where this one goes!
Ive built it in standard before. You know the space of time where Khans and theros were both legal?
Thats when i started playing devotion. And Karametras Acolyte is great in its own right, Hydra broodmaster and Singing bell strike add to the control list way too well to not do it. It was a winning combo in standard and you can infinite mana easily on six, four is possible but challenging.
Then infinite mana later, monstrous the broodmaster and win next turn.
And since those are not really talked about cards, in a Sabertooth build, Soul of the Harvest is a perfect draw engine.
Remember how you guys were saying Primalcrux was just waiting for something to make it as a maindeck staple for Green Devotion Genesis Wave?
In Commander format, there is a combo with Mirrorweave plus Primalcrux in play and many other beatdown creatures. This also works for Deus of Calamity for the guy who likes a Gruul Land D aggro build.
Play the dork devotion curve. Ramp into Genesis Wave until Mirrorweave gets dumped into the GY with an Eternal Witness hitting the board. Grab Mirrorweave. Continue another Genesis Wave chain if still possible, the more dorks in play the better. Then as you declare attack, wait for the opponent to cast his spot removals then cast Mirrorwaave on the available Primalcrux on the board. All dorks become an exact copy of Primalcrux including CMC which exponentially pumps each Primalcrux power to gay pride sweetness. This can also be done with Deus of Calamity to wipe out the opponents lands as each dork becomes a Deus and destroy a land when trample damage punches through.
The Mirrorweave will work off the Nykthos with Wistful Selkie in play plus the Utopia Sprawl mana fix plus any adjustments to lands like Hinterland harbor.
The first is the idea of using bounce in a way reminiscent of old-school Stupid Green. Crudbros, you’re absolutely right in your pushing use of the Curio, and I’d neglected that fact. However, Curio uses tend toward engines or combos rather than control mechanisms. I feel silly having not mentioned Curio myself, as it is a perfect card for this deck.
I think the main point of divergence is that most people use Curios as part of an engine or game ending combo. In the case of a modern take on Stupid Green, the deck will focus on two-card combos which act as a form of control. This makes them easier to assemble.
I do not have the cards together to build this, nor the time to e-test it these days. However, if I had to build the deck, it would look something like this:
I think that simply having Turbo-Fogging, creating endless blockers, or repeatable land-destruction will create a situation that you really can’t help but win, given long enough. Garruk ensures this as well. The downside is that you don’t have the punch of Titan or Craterhoof builds.
The result should be incredibly strong versus aggro, fairly good against grindy decks, and more SB-able vs other types of control decks. Combo will still likely be a problem.
Changes I’d look to make would be inclusion of more disruptive elements. For instance, a red splash might allow more cheap ETB land-destruction effects.
Regarding Soul of the Harvest: while it’s powerful, I still see it as rather marginal versus recurring permanent-cantrips. It can be more efficient in the long run, but that can be a while to wait. I’d rather start seeing effects on turn 3, as once I have 6 mana I can probably win on recursion.
Regarding Karametra’s Acolyte: I think it’s a powerful effect. In fact, it’s nearly as powerful as Nykthos itself from its first activation (4 mana cost, but 2 less to activate and produces 1 more than Nykthos). But we’re not comparing it to Nykthos as much as we are Garruk.
At 4 mana, both are playable at the same time. I’d say they’re similarly vulnerable: Acolyte is a fairly resistant creature, while Garruk is planeswalker and thus less easily targeted but susceptible to creature attack. Acolyte can be used to block, but Garruk can make a creature to help there as well.
I think the biggest difference comes down to two things. First, Garruk can make mana on the spot. Frequently, Garruk has a net cost of 1 the turn its played, as it untaps two lands (one of which has a Sprawl). Sometimes, it is a net positive (with Nykthos). This can matter quite a bit, as Modern is mostly a Turn 4 format.
The second thing is that, quite simply, Garruk can win the game with his Overrun ability. It is far less likely that Acolyte itself will win the game.
That said, Acolyte certainly has utility. In decks that can find room, I could see adding a copy or two (in much the same way as some decks play Xenagos, Nissa, or Kiora as Garruk 5-8). This is especially true in decks running Summoner’s Pact and similar effects, where a single card slot can be used to effectively add a bunch of tutorable Nykthos to the deck.
L absolutely love everything about this. The name, the cards, how it hearkens back to a historical deck...I certainly will be testing this this evening
I will probably end up changing it just a hair (adding Kiora for the potential of infinite combo with Curio like my past walker combo decks); but I truly do love where this is at. I think the addition of Sabertooth and Haze Frog may reduce two of the issues the deck had before (not being able to easily tutor for Curio and having adequate disruption).
Singing bell strike. Thats the whole purpose of the Acolyte in a control based deck like that. She competes with Garruk, but when she makes way more mana the next turn than Garruk could even dream of, id say its worth it.
Depends Ghostwslker...with Nykthos on board; Garruk ends up generating more...having said that, generating "the most" mans only matters if you have ways to use the mana. And I do agree with Lord on the speed front...going T1 Arbor Elf into T2 Sparwl, Garruk, Selkie is bonkers
As with all things though; it depends on the deck. One is not always better than the other. One can be tutored via Summoners Pact, while the other has more uses...one goes infinite with Singing Bell Strike; the other with Curio and another Walker...etc. so many pros and cons. We are fortunate to have both at our disposal!
You are right, however, that there may be times where Garruk is not just a snap add (where Acolyte may be better)...there are also times where we may want both (a 1-of Avolyte may go a very long way...)
Great discussion! Love the Singing Bell Strike addition. I had totally forgot about that combo :).
I've been playing an enchantment-heavy build with Commune that this may work great in...it's so great to have so many options. We are a rare deck that can adapt to the meta more "fluidly".
I definitely think there are some great ideas here that could help open up green devition's competitive potential.
My typical use for the mana off of infinite acolyte uses usually ends in either Acidic Sliime all of your lands, /all/ of them, Monstrous Hydra broodmaster, or Nykthos for red off of Deus of Calamity and Rolling thunder or any red x burn spell. I currently play Rolling Thunder because why not blow up all of your creatures and your life total?
Garruk Wildspeaker is really good, but for me it's felt a bit clunky. I like Voyaging Satyr more because it's cheaper and doesn't get countered as easily. When I get to four mana, I'd rather be casting something that interacts with my opponent. Garruk feels a lot like Burning-tree Emissary when I played that, when it was good it was very good, but otherwise was just lackluster. Also, on the topic of Cloudstone Curio, it's not tutorable by Chord or Primal Command, it can't be activated at instant speed, it doesn't add devotion, it's not a creature, its an artifact, and its ability doesn't make it indestructible which is relevant as it dies to Kolaghan's Command. These other inclusions like Singing Bell strike seem too win-more, because it requires you to already have extended 7+ devotion into play (At which point the game should be yours anyways) and is quite narrow when it can only enchant Acolyte (Voyaging Satyr is an even worse target: Easier to kill in response, and requires 9 devotion). Acolyte is too often too slow to make an impact in the game, which is why I restrict it to a one-of. The new archetype of devotion, mono-green control, is one that seeks to interact with the opponent at a higher level while ending the game with unbeatable threats. Most of these choices don't appear to make that cut.
I apologize for the double post, but Umbral Mantle could fit the bill for combo lists. It requires lower investment, isn't blue, can't be fizzled to the grave by a removal spell, and is repeatable.
Garruk is a completely different card that Voyaging Satyr. Satyr is a 2-mana card that just makes mana, Garruk is a 4-mana card that either makes mana or wins the game. The fact that Garruk can generate mana and win games is why we play Garruk. If Garruk "feels clunky" in the mana-generation role, that is not an argument to play less Garruk. It is an argument to supplement Garruk with extra, cheap mana-producers.
As for Curio vs Sabertooth: Sabertooth may be tutorable and able to use its ability at Instant-speed, but how often does that matter? Most of our ETB abilities are either limited to Sorcery speed (most creatures). The only exception is Haze Frog, and returning it at Sorcery speed on your turn is usually just as good. Moreover, using Sabertooth for those abilities effectively adds +2-mana to the cost of each activation, which sharply limits how many cycles we can go through. Finally, Sabertooth is vulnerable to PtE, which is just as common as K.Command, and if you don't have enough excess mana at the right moment can die even to the ubiquitous Lightning Bolt. Meanwhile, Curio is more efficient than Sabertooth and less likely to be removed overall.
I'm not saying one is superior to the other. Curio is more efficient, but there are advantages to Sabertooth. Since you want more than 4 such effects anyway, why not play both?
I do agree on SBS being way too slow and situational, but that card can at least function as some type of removal. I'd never play it, though.
Voyaging Satyr over birds of paradise because it untaps Nykthos and enchanted lands, which is huge because my deck is (Emphasis on this) a big mana deck. Birds of Paradise it is a one mana +1 mana which gets outclassed by Voyaging Satyr, a 2-mana card with 2 toughness (Gut shot) that produces a huge amount of mana. I generally win by using Sabertooth/Terastodon/Slime to lock my opponent's mana sources and hardcast Emrakul.
Temur Sabertooth is very, very good when it is good. Tron doesn't usually concede to an Acidic Slime, but destroying one land per turn shuts them down. It's ability makes it indestructible, which is quite relevant and it's bounce can give me another cast trigger from Emrakul. Also, it doesn't target a creature, so it can't be fizzled by spot removal. There are too many relevant targets for me to begin to explain all of them, but I will say it's good with Haze Frog.
Karametra's Acolyte is good for when I don't have Nykthos, and it can usually be cast turn 2 or 3 to produce 4+ mana the next. It also doesn't die to bolt and is a really good blocker, so I've even been considering moving up to 2.
No Xenagos is because T&N isn't as much of an "Oops, I win" card in my deck as a value card. I usually get some combination of Emrakul, Terastodon, and Griselbrand depening on the situation. I also feel like I just don't NEED to win right away when I cast it.
Griselbrand is usually put into play using Chord or T&N, but I can also cast it using black devotion from Creakwood Liege (lol) or Utopia Sprawls with untaps.
I'm not running Garruk because I have Voyaging Satyr which is faster and Acolyte, which does the same thing. I don't attack with my non-bomb creatures, and I'm always using my mana. I also just don't really have space for it. I have like 3 of them sitting around, but haven't found them to be super good for me. Maybe sideboard for Jund or other interactive decks.
To summarize, my deck functions drastically differently from any of these other decks because I generate a ton of mana and grind my opponent through the ground using EWit, Acidic Slime, Primal Command, and Sabertooth. To put this into perspective, I normally win by hard casting Emrakul, usually turn 5 or 6. When I do it later than that, it's because I've been destroying my opponent's lands. I don't need four and six drops to win the game because I go straight from three to eight mana. I hope this helps.
Against burn I find Primal Command to be really good. Also if you wanted to try something funny just try ramping into Orbs of Warding and hope they don't run artifact destruction. ;D
I guess Chord into new sigarda would work too. Really though looping primal command with E witness should be more than enough. Of course variance will get us all at times.
Second, regarding Sabertooth and the style presented by ProTourPlayer: I’m going to go ahead and declare right now that this will be a new and distinct type of devotion deck. While Sabertooth has long been integrated into Traditional- and Toolbox-builds, never-before has a devotion deck really focused on the recurring ETB effects as a primary thing.
However, we do have another deck in the distant magic past (when I started) that has done almost this exact thing. Seth Burn’s 1998 Stupid Green Deck focused on generating a bunch of mana in the early turns and with a mixture of mid-range creatures, mana-control, and recursion effects would grind opponents out. This was the deck that proved Green could do control.
There are lots of specific analogues available:
1. Temur Sabertooth’s interaction with Haze Frog looks just like Stampeding Wildebeest and Spike Weaver.
2. Acidic Slime can fill in for Creeping Mold, with recursion.
3. Kitchen Finks or Nylea’s Chosen could be used to stand-in for Spike Feeder (though we can use that card itself if we want).
4. We can even use the functional reprint to Wildebeest in Stampeding Serow, if we want some more redundancy with Sabertooth.
I think this Devotion subtype has a good shot of standing on its own and becoming the premier version of Mono-Green Control for the format.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
The singleton Baloth is just there to provide a target for spot removal if it comes out 2nd turn or beat face if the opponent needs to set up.
also thinking of sneaking in one Finest Hour just to get a second combat phase out of any beaters and trigger Xenagos for a multiplier pump--it might work in a Primalcrux build on its own as a 2 of with out the whole Bant Conscription put together. It can come out of a Genesis Wave bomb. Try Xenagos, Finest Hour and a Primalcrux or Deus of Calamity in another G devotion aggro build. may be Finest Hour deserves its own place in most aggro casual builds that can fix mana for the UW part of the cmc.
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Arbor Elf
3x Burning Tree Emissary
3x Lotus Cobra
1x Genesis Hydra
2x Wistful Selkie
2x Eternal Witness
1x Leatherback Baloth
2x SOVEREIGNS of LOST ALARA
1x Ruric Thar the Unbowed
1x Craterhoof Begemoth
Enchantments:
2 Eldrazi Conscription
4 Utopia sprawl
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Kiora Master of the Depths
Sorceries:
3 Genesis Wave
1 Primal Command
Lands:
16 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
All kidding aside; Sabertooth is a different beast altogether due to his ability to bounce at instant speed (less combo, more control).
As a 4-drop that needs to utilize its ability to get value; Lord and ProTour are right that the best fit is in a more controlling/disrupting build (as it requires time to set up). I'm excited to see where it goes! I would LOVE to put another archetype on the primer (especially if it is one that speaks to a more control-oriented green Mage). Keep up the awesome discussion.
It does bring back some memories though (and plenty of cards to try again)
---
In terms of Nylea and Hunter; you are right about them being Devotion-centric; but Nylea only requires 4 outside of herself; and Hunter is "worth it"'at a devotion of 5 (as he becomes a 6/6 for three and tends to outclass nearly everything).
I would like to hear your thoughts on Acolyte vs. Garruk. It has the same devotion-centric issue as the above (in a different way however as it "pays for itself" at a devotion of 4 on the next turn) or just on Acolyte in general.
I actually tried the Standard "infinite devotion" deck (with Temur Ascendancy, Acolyte, Sabertooth, & G.Hydra) and I quite liked Acolyte there...I never played it much for fear it was too slow; but it does dodge bolt and decay so there may be some real potential.
The issue with all of these cards; however is the same issue with every "potential" card in devotion. Because of the mechanic; we simply have more cards "available" to us than most Modern decks. It's finding the right mix of 75, curve, etc. that makes the magic
I'm excited to hear more about "Devotion Control"! I love when new decks spark conversation. Hopefully the community can post a result or two and/or get some exposure to a list (via a pro, streamer, results, etc.). This community is great at making decks the best they can be...so I'm excited to see where this one goes!
Thats when i started playing devotion. And Karametras Acolyte is great in its own right, Hydra broodmaster and Singing bell strike add to the control list way too well to not do it. It was a winning combo in standard and you can infinite mana easily on six, four is possible but challenging.
Then infinite mana later, monstrous the broodmaster and win next turn.
And since those are not really talked about cards, in a Sabertooth build, Soul of the Harvest is a perfect draw engine.
In Commander format, there is a combo with Mirrorweave plus Primalcrux in play and many other beatdown creatures. This also works for Deus of Calamity for the guy who likes a Gruul Land D aggro build.
Play the dork devotion curve. Ramp into Genesis Wave until Mirrorweave gets dumped into the GY with an Eternal Witness hitting the board. Grab Mirrorweave. Continue another Genesis Wave chain if still possible, the more dorks in play the better. Then as you declare attack, wait for the opponent to cast his spot removals then cast Mirrorwaave on the available Primalcrux on the board. All dorks become an exact copy of Primalcrux including CMC which exponentially pumps each Primalcrux power to gay pride sweetness. This can also be done with Deus of Calamity to wipe out the opponents lands as each dork becomes a Deus and destroy a land when trample damage punches through.
The Mirrorweave will work off the Nykthos with Wistful Selkie in play plus the Utopia Sprawl mana fix plus any adjustments to lands like Hinterland harbor.
What do you think?
The first is the idea of using bounce in a way reminiscent of old-school Stupid Green. Crudbros, you’re absolutely right in your pushing use of the Curio, and I’d neglected that fact. However, Curio uses tend toward engines or combos rather than control mechanisms. I feel silly having not mentioned Curio myself, as it is a perfect card for this deck.
I think the main point of divergence is that most people use Curios as part of an engine or game ending combo. In the case of a modern take on Stupid Green, the deck will focus on two-card combos which act as a form of control. This makes them easier to assemble.
I do not have the cards together to build this, nor the time to e-test it these days. However, if I had to build the deck, it would look something like this:
10 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
Core Devotion Cards (20)
4 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Oath of Nissa
1 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Cloudstone Curio
2 Temur Sabertooth
3 Carven Caryatid
2 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Acidic Slime
2 Haze Frog
I think that simply having Turbo-Fogging, creating endless blockers, or repeatable land-destruction will create a situation that you really can’t help but win, given long enough. Garruk ensures this as well. The downside is that you don’t have the punch of Titan or Craterhoof builds.
The result should be incredibly strong versus aggro, fairly good against grindy decks, and more SB-able vs other types of control decks. Combo will still likely be a problem.
Changes I’d look to make would be inclusion of more disruptive elements. For instance, a red splash might allow more cheap ETB land-destruction effects.
Regarding Soul of the Harvest: while it’s powerful, I still see it as rather marginal versus recurring permanent-cantrips. It can be more efficient in the long run, but that can be a while to wait. I’d rather start seeing effects on turn 3, as once I have 6 mana I can probably win on recursion.
Regarding Karametra’s Acolyte: I think it’s a powerful effect. In fact, it’s nearly as powerful as Nykthos itself from its first activation (4 mana cost, but 2 less to activate and produces 1 more than Nykthos). But we’re not comparing it to Nykthos as much as we are Garruk.
At 4 mana, both are playable at the same time. I’d say they’re similarly vulnerable: Acolyte is a fairly resistant creature, while Garruk is planeswalker and thus less easily targeted but susceptible to creature attack. Acolyte can be used to block, but Garruk can make a creature to help there as well.
I think the biggest difference comes down to two things. First, Garruk can make mana on the spot. Frequently, Garruk has a net cost of 1 the turn its played, as it untaps two lands (one of which has a Sprawl). Sometimes, it is a net positive (with Nykthos). This can matter quite a bit, as Modern is mostly a Turn 4 format.
The second thing is that, quite simply, Garruk can win the game with his Overrun ability. It is far less likely that Acolyte itself will win the game.
That said, Acolyte certainly has utility. In decks that can find room, I could see adding a copy or two (in much the same way as some decks play Xenagos, Nissa, or Kiora as Garruk 5-8). This is especially true in decks running Summoner’s Pact and similar effects, where a single card slot can be used to effectively add a bunch of tutorable Nykthos to the deck.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I will probably end up changing it just a hair (adding Kiora for the potential of infinite combo with Curio like my past walker combo decks); but I truly do love where this is at. I think the addition of Sabertooth and Haze Frog may reduce two of the issues the deck had before (not being able to easily tutor for Curio and having adequate disruption).
As with all things though; it depends on the deck. One is not always better than the other. One can be tutored via Summoners Pact, while the other has more uses...one goes infinite with Singing Bell Strike; the other with Curio and another Walker...etc. so many pros and cons. We are fortunate to have both at our disposal!
You are right, however, that there may be times where Garruk is not just a snap add (where Acolyte may be better)...there are also times where we may want both (a 1-of Avolyte may go a very long way...)
Great discussion! Love the Singing Bell Strike addition. I had totally forgot about that combo :).
I've been playing an enchantment-heavy build with Commune that this may work great in...it's so great to have so many options. We are a rare deck that can adapt to the meta more "fluidly".
I definitely think there are some great ideas here that could help open up green devition's competitive potential.
Garruk is a completely different card that Voyaging Satyr. Satyr is a 2-mana card that just makes mana, Garruk is a 4-mana card that either makes mana or wins the game. The fact that Garruk can generate mana and win games is why we play Garruk. If Garruk "feels clunky" in the mana-generation role, that is not an argument to play less Garruk. It is an argument to supplement Garruk with extra, cheap mana-producers.
As for Curio vs Sabertooth: Sabertooth may be tutorable and able to use its ability at Instant-speed, but how often does that matter? Most of our ETB abilities are either limited to Sorcery speed (most creatures). The only exception is Haze Frog, and returning it at Sorcery speed on your turn is usually just as good. Moreover, using Sabertooth for those abilities effectively adds +2-mana to the cost of each activation, which sharply limits how many cycles we can go through. Finally, Sabertooth is vulnerable to PtE, which is just as common as K.Command, and if you don't have enough excess mana at the right moment can die even to the ubiquitous Lightning Bolt. Meanwhile, Curio is more efficient than Sabertooth and less likely to be removed overall.
I'm not saying one is superior to the other. Curio is more efficient, but there are advantages to Sabertooth. Since you want more than 4 such effects anyway, why not play both?
I do agree on SBS being way too slow and situational, but that card can at least function as some type of removal. I'd never play it, though.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB