@hypaspist, you are trying to form a GW constellation deck in modern, i would play it more differently compared to you. the kill condition and control in your version is not not strong enough, i think leyline of sanctity and ghostly prison should be mainboard option compared to sideboard. sigil of empty throne will make for a good finisher. cards you can consider are herald of pantheon, citadel siege/frotier siege, hellion, god of the sun and such. arbor elf,genesis hydra wouldn't be that necessary. i would only run 2 starfield of nyx though. main reason being cmc is too high, don't do much until you have 5 enchantment and such.
I've looked at Herald. though often without something like genesis Hydra (and maybe wave is the ticket) you can end up with a lot of mana and nothing to spend it on (an age old problem that most devotion players find themselves in… Brilliant I have 36 Green mana… How do I spend it.?!?)
I think Heliod is legitimate, though in a white deck, which is a different deck and a different thread, and I truly believe might work, thought be more controlling (with O-Rings, spheres of safety, Elspeth, and a whole bunch of other toys)
Sigil, is of course a great shout.
I disagree (at least until proper testing takes place) on starfield though, they turn each other on, can get back enchantments after you've communed them away, and to be honest, in this deck, 5 enchantments is pretty easy to get to.
Starfield is how you are swinging with 3 or 4 4/4+x creatures (dependent on leylines in play) on turn 3.
I'll hopefully get some testing in this Friday. (prepare for an 0-4 report! )
johans list looks similiar to Uegjo on mtgo. i myself do like running 2 harmonize, and 3 primal command also. what i want to ask people is, why are we running 22 lands? i thought 20 was enough.
edit: just looked at the primal surge list. i always wondered how to make primal surge playable. he's mainboarding 3. seems like a good number. he can probably flip over a good number of permanents before revealing another primal surge.
Curdbros, I might be misunderstanding the nature of the combo, but why would you not swap Karn for Kiora instead of Nissa…?
the devotion count stays higher, you maintain all your walkers (except Ugin) as land untappers… (easier to go infinite with cheaper walkers..?
seems better in more instances than Karn/Ugin, though I'm not as familiar with the deck as you are?
You could replace Karn with Niora, but you really do want something to do with all of that mana. Once you have the combo; we of course have many options (Wolf Run, Make infinite tokens, keeping boucing Ugin and hitting for 3, keep boucning Karn and remove their entire board, etc...but there are games where we don't hit the infinite combo that we ant to have high drops to take advantage of the huge sums of mana we have available. That is what makes Karn and Ugin so good. They are great finishers once we have the combo; but they are also great on their own to take over a game when we don't have the combo. Ugin is superior to Karn by a pretty wide margin; but it is nice to have spot removal every once in a while (and sometimes you only have 7-mana).
Thanks for posting this!! I had a little write up (but I had cited Mtgdecks.net and this is easier to read.) but you did a better job than I would have!
It interesting to see the Tooth and Nail list have a little resurgence. I've seen it on a few streams (mostly the streamer playing against it); but it performed well each time I saw it. One streamer even said, "what can you even do about that?" when the opponent turn 3 Prime-Timed, grabbing Boseiju and cast a uncounterable Tooth and Nail the very next turn
One thing I was interested in was the use of Overgrowth over Gertile Ground (of course they ran both; but chose a full set of Overgrowth compared to only 2-3 Fertile Ground depending on the list. Three is an easy number to hit on turn two (if you only hit a dork, Sprawl, etc.)...is that why this was chosen? Does it more easily hit Tooth and Nail at that point? The math is very important to many readers on here; so I wanted to make sure the pros and cons were discussed her.
What do you guys think of this?
I run 16 mana dorks (elf, birds, sprawl a& fertile ground) to ensure that I hit at least 1-2 mana accelerators in the first 2 turns which allows me to ramp into my Primeval titans or garruk asap.
I threw in 2 Tooth & Nail and the Emrakul + Xenagos combo for an alternative win condition besides creature beatdown.
Leatherback Baloth allows for early pressure thanks to his huge body.
Don't particularly like Eternal Witness as he doesn't do much in the early game other than create a soft lock with Primal Command.
Have one flex slot which is now being occupied by Thragtusk to increase my fighting chances against decks such as Abzan and Jund.
The Sideboard… well, Largely ignore many of the cards… I was pretty packed for time this week as my daughter just started school, so I grabbed what I could find (and I don't own some of the other cards that really *should* go here, such as leyline of sanctity and ghostly prison
Anyhoo
Round 1 vs Burn
I believe in theory, that this was a pretty favourable matchup due to the incidental life gain in the deck, Coursers, Leylines of vitality, there are lots of triggers to get value from that skullcrack or Atarka's commanding is not going to do a great deal against. This was born out by the matches which went 2-0. I stabilised at about 10 life in each game and then just went on to destroy him through big fat enchantment creatures.
Round 2 vs Merfolk
Aggressive creature strategies are on paper the deck's weakest suit because of the lack of removal (I'm not saying Path shouldn't be in this deck, it probably should, however, as I'd chosen not to run it, I took my medicine.
Game 1 was a Mull to 5 and ended horribly for me, (note to self, next time you really need to dig, remind yourself that you do not need to dig so hard that you put Nylea's presence on a nykthos vs Merfolk… it ends…. badly.
Game 2 was just a straight up aggressive hand that I couldn't stop
Round 3 vs a Simic brew, counters and doubling (this was not a great deck to be fair). He didn't see a great deal of his deck as he was dead by about turn 5 both games. (maybe turn 6, through a 48/50 Trampling Eidolon of blossoms)
Round 4 vs Merfolk
Well, this didn't go so well the first time round so my hopes weren't high.
Game 1 - I felt he kept a slow hand, but it did have action. Though he couldn't answer my creatures with vitality and life-force starting on the battlefield. I got ramp quickly and a very large Nylea swung for game.
Game 2 - he had a relatively aggressive start, but he never got spreading seas, and once my leylines came online for defence he was done for and some brutal backswinging made short work of him.
Round 5 vs CoCo Elves. (pretty much playing for first place here as coCo elves are 4-0 and pilot is good)
Game 1 He misplayed and sacrificed his Nettle sentinel by swinging into an Eidolon with leyline of Vitality out and I think this set him back significantly enough that I could handily take the game (albeit, with a long, drawn out turn) finally getting in for a very large amount of Nylea trample damage
Game 2 Mull to 5. He absolutely smashed me with Shaman of the Pack's (and my worship felt pretty silly against that I can tell you) Think he Coco'd into a Coco via either untap or eternal witness shenanigans maybe 4 times during one play (I died that turn, surprisingly!)
Game 3 he Rec Saged my Worship to swing for a damage win, probably the turn before I was going to get him with ridiculous sized enchantment beats. That said I still feel Elves is a bad matchup as it's quicker and more resilient than this deck.
In the end, 3-2 and enough for 5th. (so close…!)
Genesis wave was good all night, as was the card draw engine, and chaining Garruk's until you could unlock enough mana to either win through Nylea, or just have critical mass was generally the key to victory. Nylea's presence on Nykthos was good (apart from obviously against Merfolk)
This deck is pretty fun. It can build very quickly. is less reliable I think than other devotion builds, however it can also very easily win from almost nowhere provided you have some leylines and the star field.
I'd definitely take this again, might also do some more work on it, but if you are going 4-5 rounds, consider taking the leylines out for a date, because they don't get out much bless them!
if you do want to play this… two things.
Remember the Eidolon trigger is not may, you are drawing those cards off of Enchantments whether you like it or not (so be very careful what you wave for!)
Also, Nylea's presence on the Nykthos is bad against Merfolk…. very very very bad. Unless you have enough Arbor Elf's out that you can win the same turn by untagging Nykthos for 10 squillion...
The ramp package you mentioned above can be improved by cutting the voyaging satyrs for birds of paradise as its a 1 CMC and this allows you to speed up your plays from turn 1, rather than from turn 2 which can make a lot of difference against aggressive opponents. Personally, I run a similar ramp package but with the nykthos and I can safely say that nykthos allows you to explode from nowhere, while the ramp package can at most speed my plays up by one to two turns. That is the difference. The eight enchantment ramps you play also help to fuel nykthos, so why not?
With regards to Kessig Wolf Run, if you drop it, you'll lose one alternate win condition via boost + beatdown. Yes, it's possible but you have to ensure that you hit your combo or objective more reliably now that you have one less win condition. Dropping red is not necessary in my opinion since you have shock lands such as Stomping Ground and multi-colored mana fixers such as Utopia Sprawl and Fertile Ground (in place if Overgrowth) which allows you to play more than just green. This opens up a lot of sideboard options as you have easy access to all colors. However, do side in with caution and watch your mana requirements, double mana symbols are a moderate risk while single mana symbols are still okay.
Well, your deck wins the moment it resolves a Tooth and Nail. So I suggest adding more of that and a land that ensures it resolves (can not be countered), Boseiju, who shelters all.
Witness might not be as big as Leatherback, but the soft lock with command does win games. The Baloth rarely does. It's often enought dat I use a fetch land t1 with ramp and t2 ensure my landdrop with Witness on the land. Fixes mana as well, which is big in your deck for post SB games. I would play at least 3 Witness (after the 3rd you usually can Command into Craterhoof Behemoth for the win).
Makes me wonder if we cannot make nice T&N package including Craterhoof Behemoth. Is there something which makes tokens with haste perhaps? A better version of Chancellor of the Forge?
Empty Board into Behemoth + Chancellor = 2 tokens. That means 3 attackers, 2x a 5/5 Goblin with haste + trample and 1x a 9/9 Behemoth haste + trample. 19 damage is fairly lethal in Modern (fetch and shocklands).
Besides, often there will be some other creatures on the board anyway, adding 1-2 goblins and 2-4 power into the equasion.
I don't like red,so I'm not going to do the deck you've post.
I looked and I found this deck : http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/262499#online
Seems good for start, what do you think ? If you will do some changes, just tell me.
"Just Me"'s list GREAT, and so is the list you show from MTGGoldfish.com
Also, Primal Command is now less expensive as it was printed in the new Dual Deck....
Please let us know what you list looks like and how it plays! Welcome to the forum/thread!
Sorry for the multiple posts (won't make it a habit); but I wanted to address each person individually since the ideas presented and topics were quite different.
I for one don't think you should cut Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx...you may only want to run 3 (or possibly two if you are not that into it); but it does provide for the "crazy" turns that you just can't do otherwise. I played against a control deck last night. I was able to cast Garruk Wildspeaker THROUGH a Remand and then because he could untap the Nykthos I was able to "go off". I couldn't have done this without Nykthos.
I do see the appeal with Dungrove Elder to play only forests, but I just think you are giving up too much power.
Kessig Wolf Run is a tough one. With Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground, and Birds (all of which I play in my current version); a small splash of red is essentially free (most games you honestly don't even need a "dual land" of any kind). Having said this, it can be troublesome to play 4x Nykthos and 2x Wolf Run (as you run into opening hands where you don't have a green source). I actually currently run 2x Kessig Wolf Run (because I don't run Prime Time or another way to fetch the land0; but I could TOTALLY see you running maybe only 2-3 Nykthos, 1 Kessig Wolf Run, and potentially 1 Ancient Stirrings, Sylvan Scrying, etc.
I'm currently looking at potentially running an Ancient Stirrings because it fethces for lands, Ugin, Karn, or CLoudstone Curio.
Another interesting thought...I just watched a player at GP OKC play a sideboard package of Life From the Loam + Ghost Quarters...this seems like it could be a way we can fight two of our most hated decks....Tron and Amulet...I will test it out; but I wanted to throw it out there to see what others on here think.
Thank you very much for your input, it's really appreciated and I must say you convinced me on the red splash. I will include 4 Wooded Foothills, 2 Stomping Ground, 1-? Birds of Paradise and 1 Kessig Wolf Run. I hope this will be sufficient for constant R when needed... I will also follow your advice to put Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx back in, probably not the full playset. I think these changes will improve my deck a lot. I also included 1 Acidic Slime in the mainboard.
First few games felt pretty good with it, but I will keep improving.
The idea with Life from the Loam and Ghost Quarter sounds very interesting, especially since Life from the Loam is also good against the land destruction that will be sided in against us by several decks and it brings back our fetchlands. Dredging with a little luck a Tooth and Nail into the yard with an Eternal Witness in hand wouldn't hurt either
Your deck looks super solid....well tuned, and both powerful and versatile.
Yeah...I'm finding more and more uses/play out of the Life From the Loam package than I had thought. I also thought about trying Crucible of Worlds (since it essentially gives us "infinite" returns of our lands for "free" once resolved); but I have enjoyed the Eternal Witness synergy....in all honesty, I don't yet know which is best (may vary from build to build); but it definitely seems like something I will be using.
Course of Kruphix has been VERY good in my build currently. I don't think it fits in many green devotion builds; but it has been outstanding so i wanted to point it out for anyone currently brewing and looking for something different to try. I'm just finding SOOO many interactions with it. I really do need to outline all of the interactions, the choices, sideboarding, etc. for my deck (as it is just super tough to see everything just looking at the list). Of course, this is true of any deck in existence (not like I'm special in any way); but it would be helpful nonetheless.
Post my list this evening once done testing.
Random thought...
I feel like the new Kiora is probably a really good fit in the "all in" Tooth and Nail decks. She gives them another set of Garruk's basically and it
I proxied her as well...and you are right. Having 8 sourcers to untap a Nykthos is nuts; and a single "untap enchanted forest and Arbor Elf" is back breaking...you jump basically from 4 mana to 10
I do think she fits best in Tooth and Nail, but I have gone back and forth with adding her to the Walker deck in place of Nissa...4-CMC is a HUGE difference from 5-CMC but Nissa's ability to create a 4/4 trampler is used more than you would think...the issue I had with adding her to the Walker deck was that I had to (a) add another color to the deck, and (b) had change the deck a little in order to facilitate here because she puts many cards in the yard and requires more creatures.
In Tooth and Nail, however, where you already play 4x Arbor Elf, 4x Voyaging Satyr, 10-12x land enchantments (including Overgrowth)....she literally just seems perfect
The land hate package is looking good. It's helped me vs. Tron, Amulet, Scapeshift, and even control oddly enough...I also played againt Jund with Fulminator Mages and put it in and he couldn't get rid of my Nykthos I'm still working on deciding whether Life from Loam or Crucible is better (as with Eternal Witness in the board it is closer than I would expect.)
Sooooo many choices...when you quickly can get to 4-5 mana; it makes for a wide amount of board options.
So, after testing quite extnesively over the weekend; I'm to a point where I feel the Walker Devotion list is in a really solid place. I've been working mainly on the sideboard for the last week (as the main board felt quite close after the addition of Courser of Kruphix)...by the way, I have to give a quick shout out to KSong on TappedOut. He was the one that suggested switching out Elvish Visionary for Courser of Kruphix...and it was a truly measurable improvement to the deck. The addition of Courser not only shored up aggressive match ups (like Burn, Naya, Merfolk, etc.) but also provided the following benefits;
1. Gives you the ability to develop infinite draw loops with either an enchantment OR a creature in hand once you've hit infinite mana.
2. Digs for the important lands (Nykthos and Kessig)...when this is paired with Ancient Stirrings (discussed below); it allow us to run only 3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and still hit it with extreme consistency '(which helps us have less opening hands without a green source in the long run...). This also helps us dig to gas (like our walkers).
3. While this is in line with the above, it draws a ton of cards...in most games a single Courser will draw a minimum of two lands off the top.
4. Life Gain. This has been far more important than I thought it would be. Between the 1-life for every land (for each Courser in play) AND the 4-toughness; Courser saves us A TON of life.
5. Adds 2-devotion. He sticks around, and adds two devotion, and helps you dig to Nykthos....so his 2-devotion often puts you over the magic 4-count
While not every deck will want to make this change (Visionary is still a great green devotion card); it fit the curve and play of the deck perfectly. Some on here had the same suggestion..so thank you to all who've helped, suggested, and criticized! I may have never made the change; and goes to show why communities like this one are so great for developing/brewing decks.
The most recent changes, however, came about part by heavy testing and part by sheer luck of paying attention during today's final round of the Modern GP. To begin, here is the most recent list:
The Ancient Stirrings came about in part due to the board changes; but it is also a card I've played in the deck before. For the main deck, it grabs our important lands (Wolf Run and Nykthos),Cloudstone Curio for the combo, as well as our big finishers (Ugin and Karn). It is extremely rare that you are not going to hit something you want, and a cost of only 1-mana!) It also helps make our sideboard that much more potent.
a. This is a great way for us to fight decks like Amulet, Tron, Scapeshift, and Control (as well as any deck running
b. Gives us a great way to deal with land destruction played against us (one of the best ways to hate against us).
c. Helps us fix and ensure land drops if need be (as we can grab back fetch lands)
d. Helps deal with "problems" like Blinkmoth Nexus.
e. Helps slow down fast combo decks quite easily.
It has been a GREAT addition to the board. I am finally really content with the sideboard. While I would love to run 3x Spellskite, another Crucible (and I may still do this), and another Damping Matrix; the additional copy of Ancient Stirrings (for a total of two) allows me to dig quickly to my "hate" artifacts/lands...between the card draw and digging the deck already does on top of the Stirrings; I have a very good chance of quickly finding the tech I need. I finally feel like the board can take on all of the "unfair" decks in the meta (which was the goal from the beginning).
Green Devotion Control - Resource Restriction
One really interesting thing I've found in post-board matches is that the deck turns somewhat into a "Green Devotion Control" deck. Between Eternal Witness + Primal Command, my "hate" artifacts, the Ghost Quarter + Crucible of Worlds package, and in my case Karn Liberated (but for many others it could just be Acidic Slime, etc....I was often able to restrict the opponent quite a bit. In many cases I felt almost like I was "controlling" the game (which is odd for someone used to big mana and combo decks )
Being able to recur land destruction, while also putting a land back on top of the opponent's library, while also being able to exile any permanent (including lands) led to many games where the opponent did basically nothing as I grew my board. It made me think that there could be potential to utilize such a strategy even in the main deck of more "traditional" Green Devotion decks (i.e. either running Crucible of Worlds and/or Life from the Loam with Ghost Quarters within the main)...I don't know for certain. I don't know...it just seems to be a worthwhile "function" of green devotion. It's not that the Witness/Command "lock" or the Crucible/Loam + Ghost Quarter "lock" are new...they just feel really good right now in mono green when paired with the "hate-ifacts" (Damping Matrix, Defense Grid, Torpor Orb, Spellskite, Pithing Needle, etc.)
** EDIT - Small change to board...Engineered Explosives came in over Bonfire of the Damned. Again, has the benefit of being "tutorable" with Stirrings. While it hits me too; it does give me a way to deal with enchantments are artifacts too (Boggles, Affinity, etc.) **
**Also, Crucible of Worlds is not the only way to bring back Ghost Quarters...Eternal Witness can do this as well (and with Curio can do so somewhat indefinitely). I'm trying to put together a sideboard guide now. **
Thanks Destoryermaker! I've worked hard on it; but I am really excited with where it is at. I hope you can put it together so you can offer your criticisms/suggestions/ideas to make it better!
It has taken some of my time away from Elves though...so I gotta get back to our little friends
P.S. Made a few "EDIT's" above (including the addition of Engineered Explosives in the board, etc.)
3. Kiora, Master of the Depths obviously has potential in Tooth and Nail and has EXTREME potential for this archetype (given our use of land enchantments and untap creatures.
4. Greenwarden of Murasa is a great way to get both a fatty (not huge, but 5 damage) that also adds a TON of Value to the deck (especially with cards like Genesis Wave and Primal Command....I think this has potential in the "Standard" list.
5. Endless One is a nice way to always have the mana to cast something; but in the end is just power and toughness (although a good team up with Kessig Wolf Run)
6.Does Undergrowth Champion work in Stompy? Or is it just WAY to slow for Modern?
For the Standard Green Devotion list, can we use anything from BFZ? Green devotion is a funny thing because pretty much every green card is fair game (and some not-so green ) but we also have a very high bar because you're not going to take out Primeval Titan, etc. unless something great comes along (or you create your own devotion archetype.
Green Devotion is on of the very few mechanics where you can make viable decks in many different strategies/capacities, which makes it fun for brewing...but in the end Modern is a VERY tough format to develop a viable deck in...so there is a high bar for us.
I will be testing a Standard Green Devotion deck as well to maintain the conversation of the deck. I will also be posting videos and MTGO results to make for stronger content for readers of the thread/primer.
Kiora is a definitely an autoinclude in my list, replacing one Wildspeaker and the Nissa. Absolutely in love with this card.
Also can't wait to test the new Ulamog, an uncounterable colorless EXILE TWO PERMANENTS just sounds perfect.
Greenwarden sounds interesting but have to playtest (I really don't like the 4 toughness). But then, what do you take out for him?
Endless One is terrible imho, whether its power you never want to spend all your mana on something that "does nothing". It needed at least trample to be considered.
Undergrowth Champion I don't like either, coming without a counter already makes him to vulnerable. Sure can get out of hand if unanswered but that's the case of alot of cards.
EDIT: Void Winnower sounds interesting too. No zero spells, no mana leak / remand / terminate / cranial plating, no rhino / supreme verdict / cryptic / twin / company, wurmcoil etc. It's expensive but the more controlling lists may like it.
I am taking this rather traditional green devotion list to my local FNM tonight. I will try out a transformational sideboard so that I have options once I want to side Genesis Wave out.
Results will be posted once I have em tomorrow.
I think Heliod is legitimate, though in a white deck, which is a different deck and a different thread, and I truly believe might work, thought be more controlling (with O-Rings, spheres of safety, Elspeth, and a whole bunch of other toys)
Sigil, is of course a great shout.
I disagree (at least until proper testing takes place) on starfield though, they turn each other on, can get back enchantments after you've communed them away, and to be honest, in this deck, 5 enchantments is pretty easy to get to.
Starfield is how you are swinging with 3 or 4 4/4+x creatures (dependent on leylines in play) on turn 3.
I'll hopefully get some testing in this Friday. (prepare for an 0-4 report! )
edit: just looked at the primal surge list. i always wondered how to make primal surge playable. he's mainboarding 3. seems like a good number. he can probably flip over a good number of permanents before revealing another primal surge.
You could replace Karn with Niora, but you really do want something to do with all of that mana. Once you have the combo; we of course have many options (Wolf Run, Make infinite tokens, keeping boucing Ugin and hitting for 3, keep boucning Karn and remove their entire board, etc...but there are games where we don't hit the infinite combo that we ant to have high drops to take advantage of the huge sums of mana we have available. That is what makes Karn and Ugin so good. They are great finishers once we have the combo; but they are also great on their own to take over a game when we don't have the combo. Ugin is superior to Karn by a pretty wide margin; but it is nice to have spot removal every once in a while (and sometimes you only have 7-mana).
Thanks for posting this!! I had a little write up (but I had cited Mtgdecks.net and this is easier to read.) but you did a better job than I would have!
It interesting to see the Tooth and Nail list have a little resurgence. I've seen it on a few streams (mostly the streamer playing against it); but it performed well each time I saw it. One streamer even said, "what can you even do about that?" when the opponent turn 3 Prime-Timed, grabbing Boseiju and cast a uncounterable Tooth and Nail the very next turn
One thing I was interested in was the use of Overgrowth over Gertile Ground (of course they ran both; but chose a full set of Overgrowth compared to only 2-3 Fertile Ground depending on the list. Three is an easy number to hit on turn two (if you only hit a dork, Sprawl, etc.)...is that why this was chosen? Does it more easily hit Tooth and Nail at that point? The math is very important to many readers on here; so I wanted to make sure the pros and cons were discussed her.
4 Arbor Elf
2 Eternal Witness
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Primeval Titan
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
4 Leatherback Baloth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Thragtusk
Planeswalker (4)
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Sorcery (5)
2 Tooth and Nail
3 Primal Command
4 Fertile Ground
4 Utopia Sprawl
Lands (22)
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Stomping Ground
10 Forest
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Choke
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Rending Volley
2 Dismember
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Defense Grid
2 Kitchen Finks
What do you guys think of this?
I run 16 mana dorks (elf, birds, sprawl a& fertile ground) to ensure that I hit at least 1-2 mana accelerators in the first 2 turns which allows me to ramp into my Primeval titans or garruk asap.
I threw in 2 Tooth & Nail and the Emrakul + Xenagos combo for an alternative win condition besides creature beatdown.
Leatherback Baloth allows for early pressure thanks to his huge body.
Don't particularly like Eternal Witness as he doesn't do much in the early game other than create a soft lock with Primal Command.
Have one flex slot which is now being occupied by Thragtusk to increase my fighting chances against decks such as Abzan and Jund.
How can I further improve this?
pretty tired so report is a bit patchy
10x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Plains
4x Temple Garden
3x Windswept Heath
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Leyline of Lifeforce
4x Leyline of Vitality
4x Starfield of Nyx
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Arbor Elf
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Nylea, God of the Hunt
2x Genesis Wave
3x Oblivion Ring
1x Worship
1x Rest in peace
3x Primal Command
3x Frontier Siege
3x Nylea's presence
1x Starfield of Nyx
The Sideboard… well, Largely ignore many of the cards… I was pretty packed for time this week as my daughter just started school, so I grabbed what I could find (and I don't own some of the other cards that really *should* go here, such as leyline of sanctity and ghostly prison
Anyhoo
Round 1 vs Burn
I believe in theory, that this was a pretty favourable matchup due to the incidental life gain in the deck, Coursers, Leylines of vitality, there are lots of triggers to get value from that skullcrack or Atarka's commanding is not going to do a great deal against. This was born out by the matches which went 2-0. I stabilised at about 10 life in each game and then just went on to destroy him through big fat enchantment creatures.
Round 2 vs Merfolk
Aggressive creature strategies are on paper the deck's weakest suit because of the lack of removal (I'm not saying Path shouldn't be in this deck, it probably should, however, as I'd chosen not to run it, I took my medicine.
Game 1 was a Mull to 5 and ended horribly for me, (note to self, next time you really need to dig, remind yourself that you do not need to dig so hard that you put Nylea's presence on a nykthos vs Merfolk… it ends…. badly.
Game 2 was just a straight up aggressive hand that I couldn't stop
Round 3 vs a Simic brew, counters and doubling (this was not a great deck to be fair). He didn't see a great deal of his deck as he was dead by about turn 5 both games. (maybe turn 6, through a 48/50 Trampling Eidolon of blossoms)
Round 4 vs Merfolk
Well, this didn't go so well the first time round so my hopes weren't high.
Game 1 - I felt he kept a slow hand, but it did have action. Though he couldn't answer my creatures with vitality and life-force starting on the battlefield. I got ramp quickly and a very large Nylea swung for game.
Game 2 - he had a relatively aggressive start, but he never got spreading seas, and once my leylines came online for defence he was done for and some brutal backswinging made short work of him.
Round 5 vs CoCo Elves. (pretty much playing for first place here as coCo elves are 4-0 and pilot is good)
Game 1 He misplayed and sacrificed his Nettle sentinel by swinging into an Eidolon with leyline of Vitality out and I think this set him back significantly enough that I could handily take the game (albeit, with a long, drawn out turn) finally getting in for a very large amount of Nylea trample damage
Game 2 Mull to 5. He absolutely smashed me with Shaman of the Pack's (and my worship felt pretty silly against that I can tell you) Think he Coco'd into a Coco via either untap or eternal witness shenanigans maybe 4 times during one play (I died that turn, surprisingly!)
Game 3 he Rec Saged my Worship to swing for a damage win, probably the turn before I was going to get him with ridiculous sized enchantment beats. That said I still feel Elves is a bad matchup as it's quicker and more resilient than this deck.
In the end, 3-2 and enough for 5th. (so close…!)
Genesis wave was good all night, as was the card draw engine, and chaining Garruk's until you could unlock enough mana to either win through Nylea, or just have critical mass was generally the key to victory. Nylea's presence on Nykthos was good (apart from obviously against Merfolk)
This deck is pretty fun. It can build very quickly. is less reliable I think than other devotion builds, however it can also very easily win from almost nowhere provided you have some leylines and the star field.
I'd definitely take this again, might also do some more work on it, but if you are going 4-5 rounds, consider taking the leylines out for a date, because they don't get out much bless them!
if you do want to play this… two things.
Remember the Eidolon trigger is not may, you are drawing those cards off of Enchantments whether you like it or not (so be very careful what you wave for!)
Also, Nylea's presence on the Nykthos is bad against Merfolk…. very very very bad. Unless you have enough Arbor Elf's out that you can win the same turn by untagging Nykthos for 10 squillion...
The ramp package you mentioned above can be improved by cutting the voyaging satyrs for birds of paradise as its a 1 CMC and this allows you to speed up your plays from turn 1, rather than from turn 2 which can make a lot of difference against aggressive opponents. Personally, I run a similar ramp package but with the nykthos and I can safely say that nykthos allows you to explode from nowhere, while the ramp package can at most speed my plays up by one to two turns. That is the difference. The eight enchantment ramps you play also help to fuel nykthos, so why not?
With regards to Kessig Wolf Run, if you drop it, you'll lose one alternate win condition via boost + beatdown. Yes, it's possible but you have to ensure that you hit your combo or objective more reliably now that you have one less win condition. Dropping red is not necessary in my opinion since you have shock lands such as Stomping Ground and multi-colored mana fixers such as Utopia Sprawl and Fertile Ground (in place if Overgrowth) which allows you to play more than just green. This opens up a lot of sideboard options as you have easy access to all colors. However, do side in with caution and watch your mana requirements, double mana symbols are a moderate risk while single mana symbols are still okay.
Xenagos, the Revelr makes a token with haste, but just one...
"Just Me"'s list GREAT, and so is the list you show from MTGGoldfish.com
Also, Primal Command is now less expensive as it was printed in the new Dual Deck....
Please let us know what you list looks like and how it plays! Welcome to the forum/thread!
Sorry for the multiple posts (won't make it a habit); but I wanted to address each person individually since the ideas presented and topics were quite different.
I for one don't think you should cut Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx...you may only want to run 3 (or possibly two if you are not that into it); but it does provide for the "crazy" turns that you just can't do otherwise. I played against a control deck last night. I was able to cast Garruk Wildspeaker THROUGH a Remand and then because he could untap the Nykthos I was able to "go off". I couldn't have done this without Nykthos.
I do see the appeal with Dungrove Elder to play only forests, but I just think you are giving up too much power.
Kessig Wolf Run is a tough one. With Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground, and Birds (all of which I play in my current version); a small splash of red is essentially free (most games you honestly don't even need a "dual land" of any kind). Having said this, it can be troublesome to play 4x Nykthos and 2x Wolf Run (as you run into opening hands where you don't have a green source). I actually currently run 2x Kessig Wolf Run (because I don't run Prime Time or another way to fetch the land0; but I could TOTALLY see you running maybe only 2-3 Nykthos, 1 Kessig Wolf Run, and potentially 1 Ancient Stirrings, Sylvan Scrying, etc.
I'm currently looking at potentially running an Ancient Stirrings because it fethces for lands, Ugin, Karn, or CLoudstone Curio.
Another interesting thought...I just watched a player at GP OKC play a sideboard package of Life From the Loam + Ghost Quarters...this seems like it could be a way we can fight two of our most hated decks....Tron and Amulet...I will test it out; but I wanted to throw it out there to see what others on here think.
Your deck looks super solid....well tuned, and both powerful and versatile.
Yeah...I'm finding more and more uses/play out of the Life From the Loam package than I had thought. I also thought about trying Crucible of Worlds (since it essentially gives us "infinite" returns of our lands for "free" once resolved); but I have enjoyed the Eternal Witness synergy....in all honesty, I don't yet know which is best (may vary from build to build); but it definitely seems like something I will be using.
Course of Kruphix has been VERY good in my build currently. I don't think it fits in many green devotion builds; but it has been outstanding so i wanted to point it out for anyone currently brewing and looking for something different to try. I'm just finding SOOO many interactions with it. I really do need to outline all of the interactions, the choices, sideboarding, etc. for my deck (as it is just super tough to see everything just looking at the list). Of course, this is true of any deck in existence (not like I'm special in any way); but it would be helpful nonetheless.
Post my list this evening once done testing.
Random thought...
I feel like the new Kiora is probably a really good fit in the "all in" Tooth and Nail decks. She gives them another set of Garruk's basically and it
I do think she fits best in Tooth and Nail, but I have gone back and forth with adding her to the Walker deck in place of Nissa...4-CMC is a HUGE difference from 5-CMC but Nissa's ability to create a 4/4 trampler is used more than you would think...the issue I had with adding her to the Walker deck was that I had to (a) add another color to the deck, and (b) had change the deck a little in order to facilitate here because she puts many cards in the yard and requires more creatures.
In Tooth and Nail, however, where you already play 4x Arbor Elf, 4x Voyaging Satyr, 10-12x land enchantments (including Overgrowth)....she literally just seems perfect
The land hate package is looking good. It's helped me vs. Tron, Amulet, Scapeshift, and even control oddly enough...I also played againt Jund with Fulminator Mages and put it in and he couldn't get rid of my Nykthos I'm still working on deciding whether Life from Loam or Crucible is better (as with Eternal Witness in the board it is closer than I would expect.)
Sooooo many choices...when you quickly can get to 4-5 mana; it makes for a wide amount of board options.
2. Digs for the important lands (Nykthos and Kessig)...when this is paired with Ancient Stirrings (discussed below); it allow us to run only 3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and still hit it with extreme consistency '(which helps us have less opening hands without a green source in the long run...). This also helps us dig to gas (like our walkers).
3. While this is in line with the above, it draws a ton of cards...in most games a single Courser will draw a minimum of two lands off the top.
4. Life Gain. This has been far more important than I thought it would be. Between the 1-life for every land (for each Courser in play) AND the 4-toughness; Courser saves us A TON of life.
5. Adds 2-devotion. He sticks around, and adds two devotion, and helps you dig to Nykthos....so his 2-devotion often puts you over the magic 4-count
While not every deck will want to make this change (Visionary is still a great green devotion card); it fit the curve and play of the deck perfectly. Some on here had the same suggestion..so thank you to all who've helped, suggested, and criticized! I may have never made the change; and goes to show why communities like this one are so great for developing/brewing decks.
The most recent changes, however, came about part by heavy testing and part by sheer luck of paying attention during today's final round of the Modern GP. To begin, here is the most recent list:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Courser of Kruphix
Enchantment (12)
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
2x Fertile Ground
2x Nylea's Presence
Planeswalker(10)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Karn Liberated
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3x Cloudstone Curio
3x Genesis Wave
1x Ancient Stirrings
Lands(20)
9x Forest
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Stomping Ground
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Ancient Stirrings
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Damping Matrix
2x Defense Grid
2x Eternal Witness
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Primal Command
2x Spellskite
The only main-boad changes are the addition of a 1-of Ancient Stirrings and playing 2x Nylea's Presence and 2x Fertile Ground. You can play 3 and 1 of those two 2-drops (i.e. 3x Fertile Ground and 1x Nylea's Prence which I may go back to, etc.)...but I feel comfortable with 2 and 2 at the moment...
The Ancient Stirrings came about in part due to the board changes; but it is also a card I've played in the deck before. For the main deck, it grabs our important lands (Wolf Run and Nykthos),Cloudstone Curio for the combo, as well as our big finishers (Ugin and Karn). It is extremely rare that you are not going to hit something you want, and a cost of only 1-mana!) It also helps make our sideboard that much more potent.
The big sideboard change was the addition of Crucible of Worlds and Ghost Quarters. It began when I saw a player playing Life from the Loam and Ghost Quarter...It made me think that:
a. This is a great way for us to fight decks like Amulet, Tron, Scapeshift, and Control (as well as any deck running
b. Gives us a great way to deal with land destruction played against us (one of the best ways to hate against us).
c. Helps us fix and ensure land drops if need be (as we can grab back fetch lands)
d. Helps deal with "problems" like Blinkmoth Nexus.
e. Helps slow down fast combo decks quite easily.
It has been a GREAT addition to the board. I am finally really content with the sideboard. While I would love to run 3x Spellskite, another Crucible (and I may still do this), and another Damping Matrix; the additional copy of Ancient Stirrings (for a total of two) allows me to dig quickly to my "hate" artifacts/lands...between the card draw and digging the deck already does on top of the Stirrings; I have a very good chance of quickly finding the tech I need. I finally feel like the board can take on all of the "unfair" decks in the meta (which was the goal from the beginning).
Green Devotion Control - Resource Restriction
One really interesting thing I've found in post-board matches is that the deck turns somewhat into a "Green Devotion Control" deck. Between Eternal Witness + Primal Command, my "hate" artifacts, the Ghost Quarter + Crucible of Worlds package, and in my case Karn Liberated (but for many others it could just be Acidic Slime, etc....I was often able to restrict the opponent quite a bit. In many cases I felt almost like I was "controlling" the game (which is odd for someone used to big mana and combo decks )
Being able to recur land destruction, while also putting a land back on top of the opponent's library, while also being able to exile any permanent (including lands) led to many games where the opponent did basically nothing as I grew my board. It made me think that there could be potential to utilize such a strategy even in the main deck of more "traditional" Green Devotion decks (i.e. either running Crucible of Worlds and/or Life from the Loam with Ghost Quarters within the main)...I don't know for certain. I don't know...it just seems to be a worthwhile "function" of green devotion. It's not that the Witness/Command "lock" or the Crucible/Loam + Ghost Quarter "lock" are new...they just feel really good right now in mono green when paired with the "hate-ifacts" (Damping Matrix, Defense Grid, Torpor Orb, Spellskite, Pithing Needle, etc.)
** EDIT - Small change to board...Engineered Explosives came in over Bonfire of the Damned. Again, has the benefit of being "tutorable" with Stirrings. While it hits me too; it does give me a way to deal with enchantments are artifacts too (Boggles, Affinity, etc.) **
**Also, Crucible of Worlds is not the only way to bring back Ghost Quarters...Eternal Witness can do this as well (and with Curio can do so somewhat indefinitely). I'm trying to put together a sideboard guide now. **
It has taken some of my time away from Elves though...so I gotta get back to our little friends
P.S. Made a few "EDIT's" above (including the addition of Engineered Explosives in the board, etc.)
Can we use any?
I"m hoping there are some good gren uncommons too; but is there anything we can use from this set? Here's my two cents:
1. Beastcaller Savant is perfect for Elf Devotion (I will post a list soon once I've tested it enough)
2. Bring to the Light can function at additional copies of possibly Eternal Witness etc. (and Primal Command if you go five colors (which we can with Utopia Sprawl, Abundant Growth, etc.)
3. Kiora, Master of the Depths obviously has potential in Tooth and Nail and has EXTREME potential for this archetype (given our use of land enchantments and untap creatures.
4. Greenwarden of Murasa is a great way to get both a fatty (not huge, but 5 damage) that also adds a TON of Value to the deck (especially with cards like Genesis Wave and Primal Command....I think this has potential in the "Standard" list.
5. Endless One is a nice way to always have the mana to cast something; but in the end is just power and toughness (although a good team up with Kessig Wolf Run)
6.Does Undergrowth Champion work in Stompy? Or is it just WAY to slow for Modern?
For the Standard Green Devotion list, can we use anything from BFZ? Green devotion is a funny thing because pretty much every green card is fair game (and some not-so green ) but we also have a very high bar because you're not going to take out Primeval Titan, etc. unless something great comes along (or you create your own devotion archetype.
Green Devotion is on of the very few mechanics where you can make viable decks in many different strategies/capacities, which makes it fun for brewing...but in the end Modern is a VERY tough format to develop a viable deck in...so there is a high bar for us.
I will be testing a Standard Green Devotion deck as well to maintain the conversation of the deck. I will also be posting videos and MTGO results to make for stronger content for readers of the thread/primer.
Also can't wait to test the new Ulamog, an uncounterable colorless EXILE TWO PERMANENTS just sounds perfect.
Greenwarden sounds interesting but have to playtest (I really don't like the 4 toughness). But then, what do you take out for him?
Endless One is terrible imho, whether its power you never want to spend all your mana on something that "does nothing". It needed at least trample to be considered.
Undergrowth Champion I don't like either, coming without a counter already makes him to vulnerable. Sure can get out of hand if unanswered but that's the case of alot of cards.
EDIT: Void Winnower sounds interesting too. No zero spells, no mana leak / remand / terminate / cranial plating, no rhino / supreme verdict / cryptic / twin / company, wurmcoil etc. It's expensive but the more controlling lists may like it.
GOOD LUCK!!