This is my first post on this forum, but I've been playing Green Devotion as my main Modern list for about 2 years now. It's a great deck, and the analysis on this thread is pretty spectacular. Thanks everyone (especially CurdBros) for all the discussion.
Like everyone here, I'm crossing my fingers for Wild Growth. It's worth noting that there's only supposed to be 45 reprint slots in the whole set, and we've already seen 7 that are Green. Even if they don't do Wild Growth, they could still do something like a Wild Growth / Utopia Sprawl mashup that can only enchant Snow lands.
Meanwhile, Llanowar Tribe is interesting. CurdBros has a good point that it might not be what most Green Devotion lists really want. For me, the 3-slot is about exploiting our 1-slot, and protecting Garruk/Karn etc. Finks, Caryatid, Nissa, Selkie, Courser... they all generate card advantage, and/or are hard to kill. When our opponents make the right choice T1 and 'bolt the bird', it's already pretty rough for us. It seems like Tribe would work best in the most linear builds of the deck, where you need a turn 3 blowout every time. I prefer more durdly builds, but I'll definitely be testing this all the same.
Whether we use it or not, it's great to see that they were clearly thinking of us when they designed this one. Here's hoping for Wild Growth!
So, Llanowar Tribe is pretty absurd. It's the only 3-drop that unconditionally taps for 3 in all of Magic. Hell, even at four mana you don't see cards unconditionally tap for 3 with the exception of Thran Dynamo, so the fact that Llanowar Tribe is Modern legal is downright striking. Granted, it suffers from all the same drawbacks that most mana elves do. It's soft to removal. You can Bolt it. You can Push it. Still though, when it comes to sheer quantity of mana produced, there's no contention. Llanowar Tribe makes more mana than any comparable card. (And virtually every other 3-drop that makes 2 is creature anyway.)
With two lands, any dork on one, and Llanowar Tribe on two, you're set up to cast six drops on turn three even without a third land.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
That is an extremely large amount of mana. It is certainly something worth testing in certain decks (as arrogantAxolotl said it has never been done before...)
As an aside, it also can become infinitely large with with Umbral Mantle (not sure that has been pointed out yet anywhere...I’ve just played umbral mantle decks in the past with things like Karametra’s Acolyte so I instantly thought of it
That is an extremely large amount of mana. It is certainly something worth testing in certain decks (as arrogantAxolotl said it has never been done before...)
As an aside, it also can become infinitely large with with Umbral Mantle (not sure that has been pointed out yet anywhere...I’ve just played umbral mantle decks in the past with things like Karametra’s Acolyte so I instantly thought of it
The infinite combo is pretty sweet, but without trample all it takes is 1 creature from the opponent to stop the kill.
Welcome @Jiidari. I totally agree with your argumentation why, although a sweet card, Llanowar Tribe is not exactly what most of our builds are looking for. The 3 drop slot is crammed with amazing creatures and as you pointed out that's where we start to get our payoff for our dorks by being able to play them turn 2 and get quicker value.
With the heavy snow theme I think you might be on to something. Making the land enchantment snow specific would hurt us a little, on one hand we want to enchant our basics anyway on the other hand if you have a starting hand with Nykthos, Stomping Ground and a snow utopia sprawl it would be problematic. But lets just wait what they will do.
Seeing that they're down to print green heavy cards like Ayula's Influence and Llanowar Tribe really makes me hopeful for something like: GG
enters the battlefield draw a card
/enters the battlefield search library for a land card put it into your hand.
Llanowar Tribe seems insane, especially if you find it at instant speed with coco to lower the chances of your opponent killing it on the spot, and then have a stupid turn. Seems 100 times more powerful than Courser, Selkie, Garruk... Makes it more reliable to have the 8 mana for Primal Command lock a turn earlier, although that still implies having nykthos, or an utopia sprawl to make the loop on turn 3. It could also help to chain cocos with eternal witness. Also, given that it's GGG, it's hard to play many since you may have Nykthos or Kessig and not be able to cast it on turn 2. I also wonder if it not being resilient doesn't make it belong to a more traditional elves deck that's more all in, as you guys said. However, it's so powerful that it will probably be a good addition overall and increase the deck's power in general (I hope :). It will probably be Knight 5 and 6 in my deck.
I don't really see Wild Growth being reprented. It would probably make the deck (and others, who knows) too consistent.
I wonder if you often have enough lands in the graveyard for Wrenn and Six. I have 8 fetches in my graveyard and often have to play vanilla witness just to develop my board or increase my devotion on turn 2. It's probably a worse witness.
By the way, Eladamri's call seems worth trying as well. I wonder how you can effectively use it...
So Llanowar Tribe seems bonkers in tooth and Nail. Probably not better than overgrowth per se, but definitely a good option for overgrowth 5+, which since growth is the secret best card in the deck, isn’t a bad thing.
Eladamri’s call is also promising. I’m trying a Naya call T&N variant with a bit of a toolbox (currently a world breaker, shalai, and walking ballista main and most of the side devoted to 1-of targets like Ruric Thar, Carnage Tyrant, Phyrexian Revoker, etc.)
I’ve also found using your 3 mana on turn 2 to call and play an arbor elf to be a passable line if your hand has top end but not enough ramp.
That being said, I need to rework my mana base. Trying to play basics, GGG on 2, GW, red, 4 ‘colorless’ lands, and a treetop village, is way too much for one list. Might have to shave a nykthos or the manland.
~
I saw a thing on Reddit that MtgSalvation is shutting down? Is that true? And if so, where are we going? Is there a discord or something?
So, Llanowar Tribe is pretty absurd. It's the only 3-drop that unconditionally taps for 3 in all of Magic. Hell, even at four mana you don't see cards unconditionally tap for 3 with the exception of Thran Dynamo, so the fact that Llanowar Tribe is Modern legal is downright striking. Granted, it suffers from all the same drawbacks that most mana elves do. It's soft to removal. You can Bolt it. You can Push it. Still though, when it comes to sheer quantity of mana produced, there's no contention. Llanowar Tribe makes more mana than any comparable card. (And virtually every other 3-drop that makes 2 is creature anyway.)
With two lands, any dork on one, and Llanowar Tribe on two, you're set up to cast six drops on turn three even without a third land.
Everyeone is making great points...I honestly don't know. I think it certainly has the power level needed. I think we may just have to look at which builds can best utilize it.
On MTGSalvations Shutting Down..
I don't know if all of you have heard; but as Aehtelianmage said... MTGSalvations will be shutting its doors after Core set 2020. Fortunately, many of the team are developing a new site for our community! I will keep everyone informed as to where we will end up (we do have a Discord as well; but I'm confident they will make a great community site)! The second I know where the community will be; I will make sure we are the FIRST Primer on it I will add all of the new data as well so new visitors have all the info they need. Before Salvations closes, ,I will simplify this primer so if anyone sees the Read Only section they get a good understanding (and a link to where they can go to find us). We do have a discord; so I will work on getting it in shape so we have all the info as well (just in case).
No matter what, we will have a place to get together and chat about our favorite deck!
That is an extremely large amount of mana. It is certainly something worth testing in certain decks (as arrogantAxolotl said it has never been done before...)
As an aside, it also can become infinitely large with with Umbral Mantle (not sure that has been pointed out yet anywhere...I’ve just played umbral mantle decks in the past with things like Karametra’s Acolyte so I instantly thought of it
The infinite combo is pretty sweet, but without trample all it takes is 1 creature from the opponent to stop the kill.....
Seeing that they're down to print green heavy cards like Ayula's Influence and Llanowar Tribe really makes me hopeful for something like: GG
enters the battlefield draw a card
/enters the battlefield search library for a land card put it into your hand.
Yeah...you would need trample (could do a budget build with Nylea) or a Fling effect. Likely far too cute.
I would DIE if they made a GG Elvish Visionary...or even a 2-3 drop "search for a land" card...it would solidify our builds for sure...lots of commons/uncommons left, so lets keep our fingers crossed!!!
Llanowar Tribe seems insane, especially if you find it at instant speed with coco to lower the chances of your opponent killing it on the spot, and then have a stupid turn. Seems 100 times more powerful than Courser, Selkie, Garruk... Makes it more reliable to have the 8 mana for Primal Command lock a turn earlier, although that still implies having nykthos, or an utopia sprawl to make the loop on turn 3. It could also help to chain cocos with eternal witness. Also, given that it's GGG, it's hard to play many since you may have Nykthos or Kessig and not be able to cast it on turn 2. I also wonder if it not being resilient doesn't make it belong to a more traditional elves deck that's more all in, as you guys said. However, it's so powerful that it will probably be a good addition overall and increase the deck's power in general (I hope :). It will probably be Knight 5 and 6 in my deck.
I don't really see Wild Growth being reprented. It would probably make the deck (and others, who knows) too consistent.
I wonder if you often have enough lands in the graveyard for Wrenn and Six. I have 8 fetches in my graveyard and often have to play vanilla witness just to develop my board or increase my devotion on turn 2. It's probably a worse witness.
By the way, Eladamri's call seems worth trying as well. I wonder how you can effectively use it...
Great points! I will be trying it in my creature based deck for sure. You are right that it is better in Coco Builds (but the power level is good enough to push it in to even non-Coco lists). I'm excited to see your new list.
Hahahaha, I just saw that myself and immediately came here.
If there ever was a card that fits into our deck, it'd be this card.
I also immediately jumped here when I saw this. I love it and will be replacing Courser of Kruphix with it. The fact that it provides 3 extra Nykthos mana, plus 3 mana of its own is bonkers. I'm hoping it lives up to my expectations.
As for Eladamri's Call, there's an argument for it, but I still think Pact is better for what we want to be doing with it.
This is super interesting to me as a Simic player at heart. We spit out our deck; and can get to six mana easily. Don't think it fits in the Creature-based decks or "traditional" devotion. I could see a fun deck built around this, however (or more combo-based versions). I tend to separate the decks this way (Devotion being creature-based with Command, Pact, etc.) and "Combo Devotion" being the other forms focused on particular combos).
May also just be a 1-2 of in my current build (just as another payoff).
So Llanowar Tribe seems bonkers in tooth and Nail. Probably not better than overgrowth per se, but definitely a good option for overgrowth 5+, which since growth is the secret best card in the deck, isn’t a bad thing.
Eladamri’s call is also promising. I’m trying a Naya call T&N variant with a bit of a toolbox (currently a world breaker, shalai, and walking ballista main and most of the side devoted to 1-of targets like Ruric Thar, Carnage Tyrant, Phyrexian Revoker, etc.)
I’ve also found using your 3 mana on turn 2 to call and play an arbor elf to be a passable line if your hand has top end but not enough ramp.
That being said, I need to rework my mana base. Trying to play basics, GGG on 2, GW, red, 4 ‘colorless’ lands, and a treetop village, is way too much for one list. Might have to shave a nykthos or the manland.
~
I saw a thing on Reddit that MtgSalvation is shutting down? Is that true? And if so, where are we going? Is there a discord or something?
I agree with you that even if all we see is Eldamri's Call, LLannowar Tribe, and the Horizon lands...we still have some real thinking to do. Mana bases in particular become tricky. I have been playing Blast Zone which makes it even harder (as it really has been a great addition).
I have two different Devotion builds now (both my Combo Walkers deck and a Coco more traditional build) and I am SOOO excited to try out llanowar tribe and the horizon lands. The Karn/Combo deck got huge buffs from WAR (Blast Zone, Karn, and Kiora) but I think the Coco Deck got some interesting pieces here.
Unfortunately, there were no "oh my god, this is perfect" options in this set for us. But I do think we got at least some options to begin testing and see how they may or may not help us. There is still a good amount to be spoiled; so there is every possibility we get a great uncommon/common as well. Either way, I am really confident in the future of Green Devotion.
_____
P.S.. As stated above, I will get our discord up and running and will make sure we have a primer on whatever the new site is so that this amazing community can stay together.
(Hi, long time green devotion fan, first post in this thread)
Llanowar Tribe is seriously a huge upgrade for this deck and makes me excited to pick up Green Devotion again. Also very stoked about War of the Spark's Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner which I think is a sweet fit for the deck.
- Are the Horizon Lands a good fit for us? They’re strong, but as non-forests I’d hate to see two of them and an elf as an opener.
- the issue with Llanowar Tribe is that it adds 3 extra nykthos mana, but nykthos can’t cast it on T2. We will need to figure out how many nykthos is correct.
- In a similar vein, between 2-4 Nykthos, Wolf Run, Blast Zone, and various manlands, we now probably have more nongreen lands that we want than we have slots for. If anyone has done enough testing with Blast Zone, let me know. Is it a better Prime Time target than a manland?
- What’s the best manland for us? I like that village adds green, but not that it comes in tapped. I wish there was an untapped one that tapped for green, but they’re not going to print that. Is the new snow land worth trying?
- My build is Primeval Titan-heavy, so I’ve run a creature land for a while, but I’m not sure I need one. The smoother mana of another basic might be better than fetching a second creature in case they kill the Titan.
Here’s what I want to try (in a Grw build with Tribe and Titan)
2 Shrine
1 Wolf Run
1 ??? - Blast Zone, manland, extra basic
Tribe makes Titan a turn 3 play much more often. I've been playing a Mosswort Bridge for a while to tutor with Titan. Often i just Titan for Nykthos and Bridge. If we have turn 1 elf, turn 2 Tribe, turn 3 Titan, you have the 10 power needed to activate Mosswort Bridge. My deck plays Emrakul as a Tooth target. If you get either Tooth or Emrakul under Bridge, you can play it turn 4. If you play Emrakul this way, you get the extra turn as well. If you play Tooth you just need to play the extra 2 for the entwine.
P.S.. As stated above, I will get our discord up and running and will make sure we have a primer on whatever the new site is so that this amazing community can stay together.
I believe there was a discord server started up somewhere far back in this thread, but that Discord has been quieter than the sleeping dead for many months now. Would love to see it get active again, or for a community/thread leader to make and advertise a new one to get more real-time discussion going, especially if a forum home is going to be in limbo for a period of time.
Edit: Got an invite link for the dead Devotion discord in case anyone wants to revive some conversation. https://discord.gg/fAht2hb
(Hi, long time green devotion fan, first post in this thread)
Llanowar Tribe is seriously a huge upgrade for this deck and makes me excited to pick up Green Devotion again. Also very stoked about War of the Spark's Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner which I think is a sweet fit for the deck.
Welcome! I'm excited to hear so much excitement for Llannowar Tribe. I am testing it too (bought a playset of course )
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LLANOWAR TRIBE!!
Hahahaha, I just saw that myself and immediately came here.
If there ever was a card that fits into our deck, it'd be this card.
Ha! Certainly seams fun! I don’t know how much ramp we need in the 3-drop slot; it if we do then this is it
It’s one of those “could be bonkers””, could be useless” cards :). Certainly worth testing
There are enough druids now, however, to make a Gilt-Leaf deck.
This is my first post on this forum, but I've been playing Green Devotion as my main Modern list for about 2 years now. It's a great deck, and the analysis on this thread is pretty spectacular. Thanks everyone (especially CurdBros) for all the discussion.
Like everyone here, I'm crossing my fingers for Wild Growth. It's worth noting that there's only supposed to be 45 reprint slots in the whole set, and we've already seen 7 that are Green. Even if they don't do Wild Growth, they could still do something like a Wild Growth / Utopia Sprawl mashup that can only enchant Snow lands.
Meanwhile, Llanowar Tribe is interesting. CurdBros has a good point that it might not be what most Green Devotion lists really want. For me, the 3-slot is about exploiting our 1-slot, and protecting Garruk/Karn etc. Finks, Caryatid, Nissa, Selkie, Courser... they all generate card advantage, and/or are hard to kill. When our opponents make the right choice T1 and 'bolt the bird', it's already pretty rough for us. It seems like Tribe would work best in the most linear builds of the deck, where you need a turn 3 blowout every time. I prefer more durdly builds, but I'll definitely be testing this all the same.
Whether we use it or not, it's great to see that they were clearly thinking of us when they designed this one. Here's hoping for Wild Growth!
With two lands, any dork on one, and Llanowar Tribe on two, you're set up to cast six drops on turn three even without a third land.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
As an aside, it also can become infinitely large with with Umbral Mantle (not sure that has been pointed out yet anywhere...I’ve just played umbral mantle decks in the past with things like Karametra’s Acolyte so I instantly thought of it
The infinite combo is pretty sweet, but without trample all it takes is 1 creature from the opponent to stop the kill.
Welcome @Jiidari. I totally agree with your argumentation why, although a sweet card, Llanowar Tribe is not exactly what most of our builds are looking for. The 3 drop slot is crammed with amazing creatures and as you pointed out that's where we start to get our payoff for our dorks by being able to play them turn 2 and get quicker value.
With the heavy snow theme I think you might be on to something. Making the land enchantment snow specific would hurt us a little, on one hand we want to enchant our basics anyway on the other hand if you have a starting hand with Nykthos, Stomping Ground and a snow utopia sprawl it would be problematic. But lets just wait what they will do.
Seeing that they're down to print green heavy cards like Ayula's Influence and Llanowar Tribe really makes me hopeful for something like:
GG
enters the battlefield draw a card
/enters the battlefield search library for a land card put it into your hand.
What do the T&N players think about LLanowar Tribe? Better that Overgrowth?
I don't really see Wild Growth being reprented. It would probably make the deck (and others, who knows) too consistent.
I wonder if you often have enough lands in the graveyard for Wrenn and Six. I have 8 fetches in my graveyard and often have to play vanilla witness just to develop my board or increase my devotion on turn 2. It's probably a worse witness.
By the way, Eladamri's call seems worth trying as well. I wonder how you can effectively use it...
Eladamri’s call is also promising. I’m trying a Naya call T&N variant with a bit of a toolbox (currently a world breaker, shalai, and walking ballista main and most of the side devoted to 1-of targets like Ruric Thar, Carnage Tyrant, Phyrexian Revoker, etc.)
I’ve also found using your 3 mana on turn 2 to call and play an arbor elf to be a passable line if your hand has top end but not enough ramp.
That being said, I need to rework my mana base. Trying to play basics, GGG on 2, GW, red, 4 ‘colorless’ lands, and a treetop village, is way too much for one list. Might have to shave a nykthos or the manland.
~
I saw a thing on Reddit that MtgSalvation is shutting down? Is that true? And if so, where are we going? Is there a discord or something?
Welcome! I hope you post some more. Great insights
Everyeone is making great points...I honestly don't know. I think it certainly has the power level needed. I think we may just have to look at which builds can best utilize it.
On MTGSalvations Shutting Down..
I don't know if all of you have heard; but as Aehtelianmage said... MTGSalvations will be shutting its doors after Core set 2020. Fortunately, many of the team are developing a new site for our community! I will keep everyone informed as to where we will end up (we do have a Discord as well; but I'm confident they will make a great community site)! The second I know where the community will be; I will make sure we are the FIRST Primer on it
No matter what, we will have a place to get together and chat about our favorite deck!
Yeah...you would need trample (could do a budget build with Nylea) or a Fling effect. Likely far too cute.
I would DIE if they made a GG Elvish Visionary...or even a 2-3 drop "search for a land" card...it would solidify our builds for sure...lots of commons/uncommons left, so lets keep our fingers crossed!!!
Great points! I will be trying it in my creature based deck for sure. You are right that it is better in Coco Builds (but the power level is good enough to push it in to even non-Coco lists). I'm excited to see your new list.
I also immediately jumped here when I saw this. I love it and will be replacing Courser of Kruphix with it. The fact that it provides 3 extra Nykthos mana, plus 3 mana of its own is bonkers. I'm hoping it lives up to my expectations.
As for Eladamri's Call, there's an argument for it, but I still think Pact is better for what we want to be doing with it.
This is super interesting to me as a Simic player at heart. We spit out our deck; and can get to six mana easily. Don't think it fits in the Creature-based decks or "traditional" devotion. I could see a fun deck built around this, however (or more combo-based versions). I tend to separate the decks this way (Devotion being creature-based with Command, Pact, etc.) and "Combo Devotion" being the other forms focused on particular combos).
May also just be a 1-2 of in my current build (just as another payoff).
I agree with you that even if all we see is Eldamri's Call, LLannowar Tribe, and the Horizon lands...we still have some real thinking to do. Mana bases in particular become tricky. I have been playing Blast Zone which makes it even harder (as it really has been a great addition).
I have two different Devotion builds now (both my Combo Walkers deck and a Coco more traditional build) and I am SOOO excited to try out llanowar tribe and the horizon lands. The Karn/Combo deck got huge buffs from WAR (Blast Zone, Karn, and Kiora) but I think the Coco Deck got some interesting pieces here.
Unfortunately, there were no "oh my god, this is perfect" options in this set for us. But I do think we got at least some options to begin testing and see how they may or may not help us. There is still a good amount to be spoiled; so there is every possibility we get a great uncommon/common as well. Either way, I am really confident in the future of Green Devotion.
_____
P.S.. As stated above, I will get our discord up and running and will make sure we have a primer on whatever the new site is so that this amazing community can stay together.
Llanowar Tribe is seriously a huge upgrade for this deck and makes me excited to pick up Green Devotion again. Also very stoked about War of the Spark's Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner which I think is a sweet fit for the deck.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
- Are the Horizon Lands a good fit for us? They’re strong, but as non-forests I’d hate to see two of them and an elf as an opener.
- the issue with Llanowar Tribe is that it adds 3 extra nykthos mana, but nykthos can’t cast it on T2. We will need to figure out how many nykthos is correct.
- In a similar vein, between 2-4 Nykthos, Wolf Run, Blast Zone, and various manlands, we now probably have more nongreen lands that we want than we have slots for. If anyone has done enough testing with Blast Zone, let me know. Is it a better Prime Time target than a manland?
- What’s the best manland for us? I like that village adds green, but not that it comes in tapped. I wish there was an untapped one that tapped for green, but they’re not going to print that. Is the new snow land worth trying?
- My build is Primeval Titan-heavy, so I’ve run a creature land for a while, but I’m not sure I need one. The smoother mana of another basic might be better than fetching a second creature in case they kill the Titan.
Here’s what I want to try (in a Grw build with Tribe and Titan)
2 Shrine
1 Wolf Run
1 ??? - Blast Zone, manland, extra basic
6 Green Fetch
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
7 Forest
But that might be one too few Nykthos.
Tribe makes Titan a turn 3 play much more often. I've been playing a Mosswort Bridge for a while to tutor with Titan. Often i just Titan for Nykthos and Bridge. If we have turn 1 elf, turn 2 Tribe, turn 3 Titan, you have the 10 power needed to activate Mosswort Bridge. My deck plays Emrakul as a Tooth target. If you get either Tooth or Emrakul under Bridge, you can play it turn 4. If you play Emrakul this way, you get the extra turn as well. If you play Tooth you just need to play the extra 2 for the entwine.
I believe there was a discord server started up somewhere far back in this thread, but that Discord has been quieter than the sleeping dead for many months now. Would love to see it get active again, or for a community/thread leader to make and advertise a new one to get more real-time discussion going, especially if a forum home is going to be in limbo for a period of time.
Edit: Got an invite link for the dead Devotion discord in case anyone wants to revive some conversation.
https://discord.gg/fAht2hb
Welcome! I'm excited to hear so much excitement for Llannowar Tribe. I am testing it too (bought a playset of course