Modern Horizon spoiler - Ice-Fang Coatl, a much better elvish visionary for those of you running blue. And as everyone probably have noticed, snow covered lands are back, I guess there's no reason not to run them
And Force of Vigor, do we want to have this in our sideboard VS our creatures that acts as removal for artifacts/enchantments?
This is the tough question. I think it’s going to depend on (a) the amount of tutors for creatures are in the deck and (b) the meta. In a meta full of decks quickly spitting out artifacts, mox opals, blood moons, chalices, bridges, whir decks, prison decks, etc. Force of Vigor is better...in a meta where it’s more about targeting one strong artifact (or where you can take out their strategy with it even on the play) the creatures will be better simply due to the fact they are often 2-for-1’s.
I see the “Forces” (we’ll likely get something like pyrokenis is red, etc.) are more like stop-gaps for the most broken things people try to do in Modern...so when those decks run rampant we will run Vigor...when they don’t we can get away with Reclamation Sage, etc.
You are right on snow covered lands as well...not really a downside...we (as a mono-color deck) can actually play more of them than most; so maybe a reasonable pay-off will allow us to take advantage (like Skred does with red)....this is not likely, but a man can dream
Wow....those canopy lands are great. Gives us something to do when we flood out and something to recur with Witnesses.
We don’t have a ton of open land slots (and I’ve quite liked Blast Zone)...but I will be trying them for sure (but i also currently am mono-green so it is easier for me).
** there is still a lot left to spoil...I’m still holding out hope for a GG or GGG Creature with a great ETB effect. **
Since perhaps the only decks that should really benefit from Snow lands are mostly monocolored decks that can run basic snow lands, we are a good candidate to see a great green snowy creature printed.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Since perhaps the only decks that should really benefit from Snow lands are mostly monocolored decks that can run basic snow lands, we are a good candidate to see a great green snowy creature printed.
Agreed. It looks like Green is one of the colors pushed heavy on the snow theme (mainly green/blue)...so they may be able to get away with a really pushed creature (or ability on a creature) with the “downside” of needing snow lands...I think you are right that we could see this as well. We’ll all have to buy a ton of snow forests; but it will be worth it
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Urza and Seasoned Pyromancer represent a cycle of extreme pushed, value-crammed humans with an ETB effect and a mana-sink...ha! It’s a stretch; but would be nice. I’ll take a more efficient Kamahl with an instant speed “pump you’re whole team for ____ mana...”
Makes for some VERY interesting combos. Chandra Torch of Defiance (and any Walker that can untap a red-producing Land). can make the two mana needed to basically “go infinite”. That makes for a little more complex of a combo...but there are a lot of powerful things we can do as well. I bought a few copies to be safe.
———
Funny thing is that now a red walker combo deck can be made without Garruk, nykthos, etc. (just Chandra, Curio, and any other Walker). We are just ahead of the curve on that combo because of our work on this one:)
Of course Curio could just be used to save the walker as well (so it doesn’t have to be sacrificed).
Makes for some VERY interesting combos. Chandra Torch of Defiance (and any Walker that can untap a red-producing Land). can make the two mana needed to basically “go infinite”. That makes for a little more complex of a combo...but there are a lot of powerful things we can do as well. I bought a few copies to be safe.
———
Funny thing is that now a red walker combo deck can be made without Garruk, nykthos, etc. (just Chandra, Curio, and any other Walker). We are just ahead of the curve on that combo because of our work on this one:)
Of course Curio could just be used to save the walker as well (so it doesn’t have to be sacrificed).
Very true! I have had the opportunity to build and test your version of the walker deck a few days ago. While very combo like with potential to go crazy early on, I found the deck needed a bit more bite. May try changing things using Chandra and this new card mixed with a Karn package and Burning-Tree Emissary for explosiveness. Will see how there rest of the set goes.
Only card I"m liking so far is the new Deranged Hermit. The current available 5 CMC creatures mostly suck, and this bridges the gap against aggressive decks, while also playing into the Craterhoof overrun plan... as typical of Deranged Hermit.
Makes for some VERY interesting combos. Chandra Torch of Defiance (and any Walker that can untap a red-producing Land). can make the two mana needed to basically “go infinite”. That makes for a little more complex of a combo...but there are a lot of powerful things we can do as well. I bought a few copies to be safe.
———
Funny thing is that now a red walker combo deck can be made without Garruk, nykthos, etc. (just Chandra, Curio, and any other Walker). We are just ahead of the curve on that combo because of our work on this one:)
Of course Curio could just be used to save the walker as well (so it doesn’t have to be sacrificed).
Very true! I have had the opportunity to build and test your version of the walker deck a few days ago. While very combo like with potential to go crazy early on, I found the deck needed a bit more bite. May try changing things using Chandra and this new card mixed with a Karn package and Burning-Tree Emissary for explosiveness. Will see how there rest of the set goes.
Yeah...I think at this point the Karn package is a must. It has just been so darn strong. It is great to be able to utilize a combo people just concede to and more importantly it has made the deck FAR more interactive while not effecting the main game plan drastically. We just get so much use out of Karn because we can make enough mana to quickly take advantage of it. It does kinda stink that EVERYONE is adding Karn to their deck (it literally is now in Amulet, Prizon, Eldrazi, Whir, etc.)...so I feel like I am kind of on a bandwagon. I did, however, say when the card was spoiled that it was great for us...so it wasn't just seeing others using it. Also, we really are a good deck for it (in my opinion). Being able to play it on turn 2 and/or play it AND a great tutored card (sometimes even play both it and Lattice) on turn 3 puts us in a rare position to utilize the card better than nearly any other Modern deck.
It does, however, create an issue in the fact that many decks will side in answers for Karn. While we of course can win another way...it still is something to think about.
Chandra is great in the deck. She creates the red mana you need when she is part of the infinite combo (i.e. you don't need to make two red each time because she does it for you...and once she does the combo you can use her to draw out the deck and technically kill them if you have enough cards.
I kinda like the idea of adding Chandra....I just don't know what to remove. I don't want to get rid of any speed or consistency. I haven't had any real problems yet with needing more power...but it is something I will make sure to focus on/make note of in testing.
And you are right...who knows that we may get out of Modern Horizons...it could change everything. It does look like there is a Green (or Green/Black) walker in the set (I think it may be Gaea as it looks very Treefolk/Caryatid)...and they still have at least one green mythic to spoil (like the other "value explosion" mono-color ones)...so we may be talking about a completely different angle in the next week or so. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some crazy bombs, crazy mana-sink, a GG "draw a card" option, and Wild Growth....but of course I will take anything we can use at this point!
P.S. Working now on how to deal with the mana base...I have thought about actually running 22 lands (just running 61 cards) and running 2 copies of a Horizon Land. I have liked Blast Zone as well, however...so it is actually tougher than I thought even when playing mono-Green
Only card I"m liking so far is the new Deranged Hermit. The current available 5 CMC creatures mostly suck, and this bridges the gap against aggressive decks, while also playing into the Craterhoof overrun plan... as typical of Deranged Hermit.
Hopefully we get some cool toys in the next week.
Agreed. I will likely use 2 of the Horizon lands (only because I am currently mono-green with generally a teeny tiny splash into blue or black)...but thus far nothing else has been amazing.
I got so excited seeing the GGG casting cost of Ayula’s Influence... but unless we decide to build a lands deck (which we totally could with Courser, Wave, Tireless Tracker, Life from the Loam, etc.) it won’t likely make the cut in “normal” Devotion.
Keeping my fingers crossed that the Planeswalker is (a) Green and (b) Busted
Only card I"m liking so far is the new Deranged Hermit. The current available 5 CMC creatures mostly suck, and this bridges the gap against aggressive decks, while also playing into the Craterhoof overrun plan... as typical of Deranged Hermit.
Hopefully we get some cool toys in the next week.
Agreed. I will likely use 2 of the Horizon lands (only because I am currently mono-green with generally a teeny tiny splash into blue or black)...but thus far nothing else has been amazing.
I got so excited seeing the GGG casting cost of Ayula’s Influence... but unless we decide to build a lands deck (which we totally could with Courser, Wave, Tireless Tracker, Life from the Loam, etc.) it won’t likely make the cut in “normal” Devotion.
Keeping my fingers crossed that the Planeswalker is (a) Green and (b) Busted
It depends which way you go. If you run Hydroid Krasis, then this could be amazing. I'm wondering if there isn't a build that has 2-3 things to do with the big mana. I've always run into the problem that if i got hit by therapy/thoughtseize early, i often lost my "big mana spell" (tooth, wave, even Garruk sometimes), and then drew nothing. But now with Karn, Ayula's/Krasis, and even tooth/wave package, you have a lot more (and diverse) avenues to a win.
I can't beleive I missed this dekclist/5-0! Tom Ross wrote an article today explaining essentially how Karn, the Great Creator is everywhere in Modern...and one of the decks he posted is a Green Devotion Deck!!!!
Here it is:
I played Madcap for a while (it was actually really good), but never thought to put this with Karn.
As I have been saying though:
A. There is nothing better one can do in modern with 4 mana than Karn the Great Creator....and
B. We can get to four mana by turn 2...so
C. We should likely be adding Karn to pretty much a majority of all Green Devotion deck.
At this point I think even tooth and nail decks should be playing Karn. I HATE Simian Spirit Guide and think it should be banned and should have been banned a year ago as it only promotes unfair play...but I do see how it would help us be more consistently fast.
In honesty..between Karn and Primal Command we have the ability to be far more interactive than we ever could be. I don't know if this is the best build there is...but I do think a LOT of what it is doing is the right choices right now.
______
P.S. The horizon lands are incredible if we can maintain mono-green. I have had a few games already where I won simply because I could dtraw a card off the top. It does make me wonder if there are enough tools now for the "top of the deck" archetype of a few of our members have championed. The BIG hurdle will be the life loss...but if we play things like Primal Command, Courser, Finks, etc. we may be better than most at being able to play them.
Can you explain i dont understand what Karn even does in this build??
Karn is a 1-card Combo. For 10 mana his static ability and Mycosynth Lattice (which his -2 allows us to tutor from our board) turns off the opponent’s land an activated abilities. I have yet to have an opponent who won after I played the combo.
This 10 mana can be split in two turns (4 for the Karn, then 6 for the Lattice) if need be.
Beyond the combo, he allows us to play a “wish board” of great artifact hate. We also have Oath of Nissa to find him.
He’s just a great win-condition while also allowing us to access and tutor for interaction even if you don’t have the mana for the combo (although generally if you have 4-mana 95% of the time you will have 6-mana the next turn). I’ve also had multiple games where I had 10-mana and just cast him and Lattice on the same turn.
Essentially, he’s just one of the best things you can do with 4-mana in Modern (and we have the ability to hit 4-mana on turn 2 and/or 10-mana on turn 3). He allows us a interaction and a different angle of attack without drastically effecting our main game plan.
That and his static ability hurts a lot of decks on its own (Affinity, Hardened Scales, Whir, Tron, etc.)
Yea, I was looking at picking up some Karns, but the price on Lattice just kept skyrocketing and I missed the train. Too expensive for me to go into now. I partly chose G Devotion at first because it was somewhat of a budget deck. I'm kinda terrified to play AGAINST him too. I think he may be on the shortlist for banning, seriously. Either that or the Lattice. It's too hard a lock, and too easy to assemble. But if he does stick around, I agree Devotion is in a great place to take advantage of him.
Can you explain i dont understand what Karn even does in this build??
Karn is a 1-card Combo. For 10 mana his static ability and Mycosynth Lattice (which his -2 allows us to tutor from our board) turns off the opponent’s land an activated abilities. I have yet to have an opponent who won after I played the combo.
This 10 mana can be split in two turns (4 for the Karn, then 6 for the Lattice) if need be.
Beyond the combo, he allows us to play a “wish board” of great artifact hate. We also have Oath of Nissa to find him.
He’s just a great win-condition while also allowing us to access and tutor for interaction even if you don’t have the mana for the combo (although generally if you have 4-mana 95% of the time you will have 6-mana the next turn). I’ve also had multiple games where I had 10-mana and just cast him and Lattice on the same turn.
Essentially, he’s just one of the best things you can do with 4-mana in Modern (and we have the ability to hit 4-mana on turn 2 and/or 10-mana on turn 3). He allows us a interaction and a different angle of attack without drastically effecting our main game plan.
That and his static ability hurts a lot of decks on its own (Affinity, Hardened Scales, Whir, Tron, etc.)
okay gotcha... I luckily pulled a lattice from Iconic Masters so i got all the pieces... If you dont have karn on turn 2 or 3 then you just go with the original gameplan, correct?
Yea, I was looking at picking up some Karns, but the price on Lattice just kept skyrocketing and I missed the train. Too expensive for me to go into now. I partly chose G Devotion at first because it was somewhat of a budget deck. I'm kinda terrified to play AGAINST him too. I think he may be on the shortlist for banning, seriously. Either that or the Lattice. It's too hard a lock, and too easy to assemble. But if he does stick around, I agree Devotion is in a great place to take advantage of him.
I actually agree with you on that. Formats aren’t great when one of the most powerful things you can do is splashable in pretty much everything...deck diversity becomes an issue. I mentioned that to my brother...I said, “I like how good it is; but I hate that I’m just playing a card everyone and their brother is playing”. Devotion is suppose to be just outside of the mainstream
I could honestly see it getting banned (or Lattice) just to promote more diversity in the format.
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This is the tough question. I think it’s going to depend on (a) the amount of tutors for creatures are in the deck and (b) the meta. In a meta full of decks quickly spitting out artifacts, mox opals, blood moons, chalices, bridges, whir decks, prison decks, etc. Force of Vigor is better...in a meta where it’s more about targeting one strong artifact (or where you can take out their strategy with it even on the play) the creatures will be better simply due to the fact they are often 2-for-1’s.
I see the “Forces” (we’ll likely get something like pyrokenis is red, etc.) are more like stop-gaps for the most broken things people try to do in Modern...so when those decks run rampant we will run Vigor...when they don’t we can get away with Reclamation Sage, etc.
You are right on snow covered lands as well...not really a downside...we (as a mono-color deck) can actually play more of them than most; so maybe a reasonable pay-off will allow us to take advantage (like Skred does with red)....this is not likely, but a man can dream
We don’t have a ton of open land slots (and I’ve quite liked Blast Zone)...but I will be trying them for sure (but i also currently am mono-green so it is easier for me).
** there is still a lot left to spoil...I’m still holding out hope for a GG or GGG Creature with a great ETB effect. **
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Agreed. It looks like Green is one of the colors pushed heavy on the snow theme (mainly green/blue)...so they may be able to get away with a really pushed creature (or ability on a creature) with the “downside” of needing snow lands...I think you are right that we could see this as well. We’ll all have to buy a ton of snow forests; but it will be worth it
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Urza and Seasoned Pyromancer represent a cycle of extreme pushed, value-crammed humans with an ETB effect and a mana-sink...ha! It’s a stretch; but would be nice. I’ll take a more efficient Kamahl with an instant speed “pump you’re whole team for ____ mana...”
EDH
WOrzhova's PoliticsB
UStensia's SaintW
U1000 FacesB
UIzzet's GambitR
RUBThe Rose's ThornBUR
RUGEternal HuntGUR
UWBArchitect's FoundryBWU
BBlood PactB
Makes for some VERY interesting combos. Chandra Torch of Defiance (and any Walker that can untap a red-producing Land). can make the two mana needed to basically “go infinite”. That makes for a little more complex of a combo...but there are a lot of powerful things we can do as well. I bought a few copies to be safe.
———
Funny thing is that now a red walker combo deck can be made without Garruk, nykthos, etc. (just Chandra, Curio, and any other Walker). We are just ahead of the curve on that combo because of our work on this one:)
Of course Curio could just be used to save the walker as well (so it doesn’t have to be sacrificed).
Very true! I have had the opportunity to build and test your version of the walker deck a few days ago. While very combo like with potential to go crazy early on, I found the deck needed a bit more bite. May try changing things using Chandra and this new card mixed with a Karn package and Burning-Tree Emissary for explosiveness. Will see how there rest of the set goes.
EDH
WOrzhova's PoliticsB
UStensia's SaintW
U1000 FacesB
UIzzet's GambitR
RUBThe Rose's ThornBUR
RUGEternal HuntGUR
UWBArchitect's FoundryBWU
BBlood PactB
Hopefully we get some cool toys in the next week.
Yeah...I think at this point the Karn package is a must. It has just been so darn strong. It is great to be able to utilize a combo people just concede to
It does, however, create an issue in the fact that many decks will side in answers for Karn. While we of course can win another way...it still is something to think about.
Chandra is great in the deck. She creates the red mana you need when she is part of the infinite combo (i.e. you don't need to make two red each time because she does it for you...and once she does the combo you can use her to draw out the deck and technically kill them if you have enough cards.
I kinda like the idea of adding Chandra....I just don't know what to remove. I don't want to get rid of any speed or consistency. I haven't had any real problems yet with needing more power...but it is something I will make sure to focus on/make note of in testing.
And you are right...who knows that we may get out of Modern Horizons...it could change everything. It does look like there is a Green (or Green/Black) walker in the set (I think it may be Gaea as it looks very Treefolk/Caryatid)...and they still have at least one green mythic to spoil (like the other "value explosion" mono-color ones)...so we may be talking about a completely different angle in the next week or so. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some crazy bombs, crazy mana-sink, a GG "draw a card" option, and Wild Growth....but of course I will take anything we can use at this point!
P.S. Working now on how to deal with the mana base...I have thought about actually running 22 lands (just running 61 cards) and running 2 copies of a Horizon Land. I have liked Blast Zone as well, however...so it is actually tougher than I thought even when playing mono-Green
Agreed. I will likely use 2 of the Horizon lands (only because I am currently mono-green with generally a teeny tiny splash into blue or black)...but thus far nothing else has been amazing.
I got so excited seeing the GGG casting cost of Ayula’s Influence... but unless we decide to build a lands deck (which we totally could with Courser, Wave, Tireless Tracker, Life from the Loam, etc.) it won’t likely make the cut in “normal” Devotion.
Keeping my fingers crossed that the Planeswalker is (a) Green and (b) Busted
Here it is:
I played Madcap for a while (it was actually really good), but never thought to put this with Karn.
As I have been saying though:
A. There is nothing better one can do in modern with 4 mana than Karn the Great Creator....and
B. We can get to four mana by turn 2...so
C. We should likely be adding Karn to pretty much a majority of all Green Devotion deck.
At this point I think even tooth and nail decks should be playing Karn. I HATE Simian Spirit Guide and think it should be banned and should have been banned a year ago as it only promotes unfair play...but I do see how it would help us be more consistently fast.
In honesty..between Karn and Primal Command we have the ability to be far more interactive than we ever could be. I don't know if this is the best build there is...but I do think a LOT of what it is doing is the right choices right now.
______
P.S. The horizon lands are incredible if we can maintain mono-green. I have had a few games already where I won simply because I could dtraw a card off the top. It does make me wonder if there are enough tools now for the "top of the deck" archetype of a few of our members have championed. The BIG hurdle will be the life loss...but if we play things like Primal Command, Courser, Finks, etc. we may be better than most at being able to play them.
Karn is a 1-card Combo. For 10 mana his static ability and Mycosynth Lattice (which his -2 allows us to tutor from our board) turns off the opponent’s land an activated abilities. I have yet to have an opponent who won after I played the combo.
This 10 mana can be split in two turns (4 for the Karn, then 6 for the Lattice) if need be.
Beyond the combo, he allows us to play a “wish board” of great artifact hate. We also have Oath of Nissa to find him.
He’s just a great win-condition while also allowing us to access and tutor for interaction even if you don’t have the mana for the combo (although generally if you have 4-mana 95% of the time you will have 6-mana the next turn). I’ve also had multiple games where I had 10-mana and just cast him and Lattice on the same turn.
Essentially, he’s just one of the best things you can do with 4-mana in Modern (and we have the ability to hit 4-mana on turn 2 and/or 10-mana on turn 3). He allows us a interaction and a different angle of attack without drastically effecting our main game plan.
That and his static ability hurts a lot of decks on its own (Affinity, Hardened Scales, Whir, Tron, etc.)
EDH
WOrzhova's PoliticsB
UStensia's SaintW
U1000 FacesB
UIzzet's GambitR
RUBThe Rose's ThornBUR
RUGEternal HuntGUR
UWBArchitect's FoundryBWU
BBlood PactB
okay gotcha... I luckily pulled a lattice from Iconic Masters so i got all the pieces... If you dont have karn on turn 2 or 3 then you just go with the original gameplan, correct?
I actually agree with you on that. Formats aren’t great when one of the most powerful things you can do is splashable in pretty much everything...deck diversity becomes an issue. I mentioned that to my brother...I said, “I like how good it is; but I hate that I’m just playing a card everyone and their brother is playing”. Devotion is suppose to be just outside of the mainstream
I could honestly see it getting banned (or Lattice) just to promote more diversity in the format.