Hey Cranial. I have a brew that used Sarkhan Vol, Xenagos the Reveler, and Garruk Wildpeaker. Sarkhan Vol is spectacular. His +1 is AMAZING after a Genesis Wave (this was my original reason for using him). His -2 can win games on its own; and he gets to his ultimate within 2-3 turns....I'll try to link it here:
http://-decks/elves-and-friends-modern/
I haven't updated it since M15 was released (and Nissa Worldwaker may be better than Xenagos); but it gives a little info on Sarkhan Vol. He does require a good amount of creatures; but you've already got that! Great idea! I can't wait to see your build and to hear how it plays!
and I apologize in advance if the sideboard seems outdated and/or it doesn't provide a ton of helpful information. I've been playing my current build almost solely for several months; so this one has kinda fallen by the wayside. I hope it helps a little though. Can't wait to see your build!
the wording on reclamation sage is "you may", therefore you can choose not to activate the ability. I find the ability quite useful with a body added. I will consider mainboarding 2 for utility.
a) 4 Nykthos vs 3 Nykthos - in some lists there is only 3 Nykthos. While powerful, problem with Nykthos is the fact that it is 1) legendary 2) colorless land that is really bad in early stage.
b) Number of fetches. Most decks have 1 small splash for Kessig Wolf Run + 2nd splash for something else (most of the time either White or Green). How many fetchlands would you play in a 2, 3, or 4-color version.
@CurdBros
I played elf version with Primal Command / Chord with red, blue and white. Looked good, however still unrefined, dont know about all slots. Really liked those Coaling Oracles (especially when on turn 2 I pust another land that allowed me to cast visionary). In 4 games I only once had enough mana to cast genesis wave for more than 4, and at that point I could cast primal command/chord and tutor for craterhoof or elesh norn to win/wipe their board and win. I couldnt find Ezuri, might test him out somewhere, and need to think about number of every creature with a Chord - Chord looked really good with all those Visionary's and Oracles.
I would like to cut white from elf version, however every sideboard card I play with that is white work excelent in this version when chord is better: 1 offs hate creatures are mostly white, and their powerlevel is very big. I cut all abundant growths, however in 4 color it might be needed to have some number of them / have birds of paradise.
I'm getting really stoked about this deck and I'm wondering if the following cards are worth buying:
Primalcrux ($15). Seems like an absurd finisher for devotion decks and is likely going to get better as more cards come out. He provides ludicrous amounts of mana and enables cards like Nylea instantly. What do you guys think, worth shelling out for?
Regal Force ($15). Draws a lot of cards. I don't see anyone playing it on this thread so it doesn't seem as important.
CurdBros: I'm totally inspired by your effort and commitment to exploring this archetype! Thanks for all your work. Do you currently prefer your Elves version over the Eidolon version? Why?
a) 4 Nykthos vs 3 Nykthos - in some lists there is only 3 Nykthos. While powerful, problem with Nykthos is the fact that it is 1) legendary 2) colorless land that is really bad in early stage.
b) Number of fetches. Most decks have 1 small splash for Kessig Wolf Run + 2nd splash for something else (most of the time either White or Green). How many fetchlands would you play in a 2, 3, or 4-color version.
@CurdBros
I played elf version with Primal Command / Chord with red, blue and white. Looked good, however still unrefined, dont know about all slots. Really liked those Coaling Oracles (especially when on turn 2 I pust another land that allowed me to cast visionary). In 4 games I only once had enough mana to cast genesis wave for more than 4, and at that point I could cast primal command/chord and tutor for craterhoof or elesh norn to win/wipe their board and win. I couldnt find Ezuri, might test him out somewhere, and need to think about number of every creature with a Chord - Chord looked really good with all those Visionary's and Oracles.
I would like to cut white from elf version, however every sideboard card I play with that is white work excelent in this version when chord is better: 1 offs hate creatures are mostly white, and their powerlevel is very big. I cut all abundant growths, however in 4 color it might be needed to have some number of them / have birds of paradise.
I run 4 Nykthos. It is never bad to run into a second one in hand or while waving. You can just replace the old one and if you have 2 mana (say from a BTE) you can do it all over again. I've literally played my whole deck repeatedly on turns 3 and 4 in multiple games. Always remember how many Wistful Selkies you're still bound to hit while waving, that can kill you.
I think you didnt read my post and what I said about Nykthos.
While powerful, problem with Nykthos is the fact that it is 1) legendary 2) colorless land that is really bad in early stage.
I didnt say anything about how good it is with Genesis Wave, because I think it is obvious. Having 2nd one and using it as a ritual is also fine, however you need to have stuff on board at that point. My point is about time, when your mana doesnt allow you to cast your spells because you have to many legendary colorless lands.
Also in my post I wrote I didnt play Genesis Wave, as in my oppinion it is overkill most of the time - when I have >9 mana I can easily win with primal command or chord. When I have less both are better most of the time. I also dont live in a magicchristmasland that I have nuts draw AND opponent isnt interacting with me. It is one of those things I am constantly pointing out.
I'm getting really stoked about this deck and I'm wondering if the following cards are worth buying:
Primalcrux ($15). Seems like an absurd finisher for devotion decks and is likely going to get better as more cards come out. He provides ludicrous amounts of mana and enables cards like Nylea instantly. What do you guys think, worth shelling out for?
Regal Force ($15). Draws a lot of cards. I don't see anyone playing it on this thread so it doesn't seem as important.
CurdBros: I'm totally inspired by your effort and commitment to exploring this archetype! Thanks for all your work. Do you currently prefer your Elves version over the Eidolon version? Why?
I think while Regal Force can be good (however noone is playing it here, that is true, as it wont generate more than ~3-4 cards most of the time), Primalcrux is totally bad. It cant be cast reliably, plus it doesnt win on a turn cast, plus it doesnt do anything while coming into play, so it can be slaughter pact / path to exiled without value.
Having one of each on the battlefield, and nothing else, means Primalcrux is 14/14. Cast an Aspect of Hydra on Khalni and now he's 22/22. And they both trample. Seems good. A Reverent Hunter would even ETB as a 16/16 haha.
If we're to include any of this junk, how many of each, etc.? It looks fun.
(edit: the fellow above me says Primalcrux is bad, and I would he'd say the same about Khalni Hydra for mostly the same reasons... is this the "dies to removal" reasoning? What *does* win you the game the turn it drops in the decklists posted here? That's by the way a legitimate question... I'm probably just not seeing it somehow)
Having one of each on the battlefield, and nothing else, means Primalcrux is 14/14. Cast an Aspect of Hydra on Khalni and now he's 22/22. And they both trample. Seems good. A Reverent Hunter would even ETB as a 16/16 haha.
If we're to include any of this junk, how many of each, etc.? It looks fun.
(edit: the fellow above me says Primalcrux is bad, and I would he'd say the same about Khalni Hydra for mostly the same reasons... is this the "dies to removal" reasoning? What *does* win you the game the turn it drops in the decklists posted here? That's by the way a legitimate question... I'm probably just not seeing it somehow)
Craterhoof Behemoth - while it still can die to removal, it gives your non-summoning sickness creatures +X/+X trample so most of the time you can one shot your opponent.
Primeval Titan - it fetches you kessig wolf run / nykthos which is an wincon on its own next turn / this turn if you have garruk.
Garruk's Ultimatum - overrun does it most of the time with how much we flood a board.
Ezuri, Renegade's Leader - in CurdBros's elf version it acts as a overrun on a stick for elves.
Genesis Wave for bunch of guys (even without any other) / primal command lock / chord for relevant 1 off that doesnt allow them to win/ polukranos kill your whole team and swing for 20 also works. Remember you can also win by making your opponent do nothing.
hey peeps. i built this deck recently and optimized it as best i could. i read up on the lists here and took some ideas but for the most part tried to improve the list.
Hey Guys! I love how deep this primer is getting. Such great ideas! To put my two cents:
Caspian,
1. Primalcrux is absurd in Devotion decks. Chroma obviously was kinda the "first try" at devotion, so he sorta was designed to fit. He just keeps getting bigger. I like Khalni Hydra in any deck that can consistently cast him on turn 3; but this takes a lot of small creatures; so you almost have to go "all in" in that way (which can make you a little fragile to board wipes like Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods).
2. To be honest, I currently play the Elf "pure ramp" version simply because it fits my playstyle a little better Both are powerful. The Eidolon/Primalcrux version can draw more cards IF Eidolon stays on the board; however she's a pretty fragile 4-drop. I feel like the elf version has a better chance at winning grindier match-ups; but which you play is truly just dependent on your play-style. Their match-ups differ slightly; but sideboards end up being slightly different. The card that most surprised me in the build was Xenagos, God of Revels!
3. Pedros is right about Primaclrux not having haste. That is the main reasoning for the addition of Xenagos in the deck. Pedros is also right that Primalcrux can hamper how many additional colors you can splash (given his need for 6-green). These are definite downsides (and why he only fits in specific builds). The "dies to removal" is true of 75%+ of all creatures, so it's one I don't pay a ton of attention to; but he has a definite point that you can't put all your eggs in one basket if it can be removed easily. I still like him though, as with cards like Aspect of the Hydra, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, and others; he can boost the potential of nearly all of the cards in the deck.
4. I loved Reclamation Sage when it was first printed! I thought I could Chord for it, etc. Then I remembered that the cards I wanted to destroy with it ( Torpor Orb, etc.) would turn off Reclamation Sage anyways! So I went back to Nature's Claim
5. I run 3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in my current build only because with the card draw the deck has I seemed to draw multiple copies far more often than I would have liked. Also, Primeval Titan tends to grab one if I haven't got to one yet. I traditionally don't care to see a Nykthos until turn 3; and with the amount of "outside ramp" that has nothing to do with devotion; I've found that 3 is better than 4 (for me).
6. I apologize in advance. I got a little confused about the Genesis Wave thing (as you said you couldn't get past four, but you could do several other things with it). I will re-read it and try to address it better in another post (as I think it's SUPER important to find out where the Primal Command / Witness lock is better than a pure ramp/Genesis wave version). This is one of the biggest discussions in Mono-Green Devotion (in my opinion).
To be entirely honest, I haven't done an extremely ample amount of testing with the Primal Command and Eternal Witness lock. I love Eternal Witness (especially after a wave), but I found that I wanted to move very quickly and an early Witness often had very little to choose from (if anything) in the graveyard. I haven't tested nearly enough with it; and went a slightly different direction. That's what is so exciting about this primer! We can all talk about our differing builds to see where each has flourished and/or issues with each.
7. I have yet to try Genesis Hydra (I just assumed Genesis Wave would be better in a majority of situations. I can see some real potential there, however (what with Cavern of Souls, maybe grabing a Xenagos to give your big Hydra haste, etc.). For now, I'm sticking with Gen Wave; but I'd be interested to hear your history and how games went with the card Purklefluff! Your build looks really cool.
I'm sorry I didn't get in the discussion earlier today. I'll be back in about two hours as well and will try to be a little more "in depth" with the discussion and questions (especially those asked by Cranial and Caspian.
more insight to follow. currently still playtesting.
my current take though.
1) the deck is explosive. really explosive, which is nice.
2) chord of calling is an all-star
3) needs more toolbox. what's out there in colourless, red or green that hoses enemy strategies?
4) i haven't found myself wanting primeval titan much. i can usually chord for it.
5) i really don't like the arbor elf-enchantment line for ramping. 8 elves and 4 wall of roots seems better generally.
6) i probably do want 4 genesis wave. or at least 3. and drop down on the number of hydras. hydras are nice vs. control, but against everyone else you just kind of want to "go off" and not worry about counters.
What a neat list! It is interesting to see how Genesis Hydra also can work as kind of a "toolbox" card. One card I thought of that I would like with Genesis Hydra was the Xenagos God (Xenagos, God of Revels) only because it would give your big hydra (or any other creature for that matter) +X/+X and haste.
In terms of "hosers", I've found a few in the past (when I used Chord of Calling to make a toolbox out of my sideboard) to include: Silent Arbiter (for infinite creature decks like twin and/or token decks), Magus of the Moon (scapeshift, colonnades, rock, numerous others...of course I play a lot of Forests), Scavenging Ooze (graveyard hate), Elderscale Wurm (Storm, Burn, Scapeshift, and fair deck, etc.), Ruric Thar, the Unbowed (for any spell heavy deck, control decks, etc.), Dosan the Falling Leaf (control, flash decks, etc.), and oddly enough Tajuru Preserver (for Emrakul decks like the reanimator one as he turns off Annihilator).
While I love the Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl + Garruk Wildspeaker Combo and don't think I could give it up Wall of Roots is awesome with Chord of Calling.
And Pedros, I was thinking about your fetch question...while I've been very comfortable with three fetch lands (currently run 3 Misty Rainforests); I have no idea why I don't run a full set I guess it's because of small issues I've seen a minimal amount in the past (like Aven Mindscensor and Shadow of Doubt) and/or because with four Abundant Growth's and four Utopia Sprawl's I've never found any issue fixing my mana...but I may be placing a fourth Misty in the main (as there really is no significant reason I only ran three...it just kinda "felt" right when testing). If I ended up splashing a fourth color (i.e. if I wanted to play white in the board); I'd probably begin playing more for sure.
I have been testing primal wave last week, the result and versatility is good. I just wondered, how can I improve it further and how to create my sideboard. currently list is this
2x craterhoof behemoth
4x primeval titan
4x eternal witness
4x strangleroot geist
4x burning tree emissary
4x elvish visionary
4x arbor elf
4x garruk wildspeaker
4x utopia sprawl
3x genesis wave
3x primal command
14x forest
1x mountain
4x nyxthos, shrine of nyx
1x kessig wolfrun
I am thinking of adding inkmoth nexus, fertile ground, sarkhan vol, into the mix, any suggestion which card I should take out to incorporate the change? what sideboard cards would you recommend?
my thoughts so far are
3x defense grid
3x creeping corrosion
3x beast within
not sure what are the remainder to include. please advise
I think Selkie coming in a turn earlier (under poor circumstances where you're not comboing out turn 2-3) is a bit more valuable than blossoms drawing an insane amount of cards off a wave. (It's actually slightly risky, since the draw isn't optional. If you're running 8+ enchantments that is.)
I haven`t tried either of them enough yet though to say for sure. Its hard enough finding room for the Courser of Kruphix.
(The 1 life per land is very relevant. Since a wave can pull you into a good position, both life and board-wise.)
I just got my 4th Nykthos and I`m starting to run 4 Burning-Tree Emesarry, still need some more cantrip creatures though. I might run the blue splash for Coiling Oracles (Since I have the lands), are there any other blue cards worth running? (Blue isn't big on permanents and gen wave is all about dudes land and enchantments....) Snapcaster mage is redundant with eternal witness I think. (yaaaay, I don't have to buy snapcasters...)
If the prophet gave our sorceries flash, maybe. As is tho we're not really casting creatures too much, so the prophet isn't much help here. Kruphix seems like overkill. Big time. I love kruphix and the prophet, but even I can see that this deck doesn't need or want them. (Gen wave for... my whole deck?)
I can see courser of kruphix being decent. Devotion, board stall, lifegain and the ability to beat in (which is relevant vs. planeswalkers). Letting you play lands off the top is decent.
Mainly though you just use it to know when to cast that genesis hydra for mega value, 'cascading' into whatever value card you've got on top. Fetchlands help you shuffle away dead cards. Seems really good actually.
It wouldnt go in an "all in". Version of the deck, necessarily. I mean it fits better in a more interactive, 'critical mass' version of the deck that still goes off early (turn three/four possible?) but it has more lines of play available if early stuff gets disrupted.
But i could be wrong. It could be an amazing fit.
I still don't know about the enchantment-ramp thing. It just seems like it's too much "you need this card, and then this card" sort of deckbuilding. Whereas a bunch of mana elves just do their thing, don't need other specific cards to be good, and ramp you quickly into big stuff, sometimes just winning you the game with a garruk overrun on turn 4. Wall of roots specifically has been an all-star and i'm sticking with four. Chord of calling is such a blowout here leading up to a genesis wave or toolboxing really nasty creatures like inferno titan against your opponent on turn 3.
I would however consider bringing in the enchantment ramp after sideboard, to counteract their pyroclasms, anger of the gods and whatever else removal they bring in. That sounds like a good deal.
I'm considering seeing if i can jam something like elesh norn, grand cenobite in the deck as a singleton. It's hard to know whether it'll bite me in the butt, but being able to chord, wave or hydra it out very early in the game just seems like a really powerful trick to play against a lot of the modern field. Specifically twin, pod, jund, bogles, affinity, zoo, UWR midrange, UWR control etc.
Doesnt hurt scapeshift, ad nauseam or storm but then we've potentially got iona, shield of emeria for them, if we can consider chording for iona a viable prospect. I think it might be just too much mana to reasonably expect to reliably get, early enough for it to matter. Needs testing.
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Hey guys, I've been stupid busy between work and almost buying a house. I'll update the primer with CurdBros' list, and make some comments on some of the posts/comments later. I'm really happy and excited to see the discussion the new primer and CurdBros' list are generating, and I'm really happy to see the quantity and quality of the contribution of the newer members of the thread.
In general, I would suggest that people re-read the primer. I'm seeing discussion about cards like Primalcrux and that's specifically addressed in the primer. I also think I have to go back into the old thread to dig up the discussions we had about Sarkan Vol, Xenagos, etc. I would also recommend reading Michael Jacob's SCG article (linked in the primer) for his thoughts on those cards.
And just a housekeeping thing. When posting deck lists, or single card discussions, can you please use the appropriate tags. The bbcode for them is pretty simple and is in the top part of the reply window. Just makes the thread a lot nicer
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Seems like the elf deck is the most consistent and resilient. Cavern of Souls is a big reason why I would choose that deck. Cavern would also push me to use Khalni Hydra considering how amazing I think Genesis Hydra is going to be. Sarkhan Vol seems really good...
I still don't know about the enchantment-ramp thing. It just seems like it's too much "you need this card, and then this card" sort of deckbuilding. Whereas a bunch of mana elves just do their thing, don't need other specific cards to be good, and ramp you quickly into big stuff, sometimes just winning you the game with a garruk overrun on turn 4. Wall of roots specifically has been an all-star and i'm sticking with four. Chord of calling is such a blowout here leading up to a genesis wave or toolboxing really nasty creatures like inferno titan against your opponent on turn 3.
I would however consider bringing in the enchantment ramp after sideboard, to counteract their pyroclasms, anger of the gods and whatever else removal they bring in. That sounds like a good deal.
I've tested this deck a lot, and I'd highly suggest you test aura ramp over mana dorks. The reason it is better than dorks is:
1) Each piece without the others still acts as ramp. Arbor Elf doesn't need Utopia Sprawl to give us mana, and vis a vis.
2) When we do happen to have them together, the explosiveness of this deck is huge. Turn 2 Garruk Wildspeaker, yes please.
3) Utopia Sprawl adds devotion while also allowing us to use it's ramping power the turn it comes in, if we enchant it on an untapped forest. This mean that with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx on the field, we net +1 G just from casting it.
I've played a lot of ramp, and I've genuinely been blown away by this aura approach. If you haven't yet tested it, please do.
I'm considering seeing if i can jam something like elesh norn, grand cenobite in the deck as a singleton. It's hard to know whether it'll bite me in the butt, but being able to chord, wave or hydra it out very early in the game just seems like a really powerful trick to play against a lot of the modern field. Specifically twin, pod, jund, bogles, affinity, zoo, UWR midrange, UWR control etc.
Doesnt hurt scapeshift, ad nauseam or storm but then we've potentially got iona, shield of emeria for them, if we can consider chording for iona a viable prospect. I think it might be just too much mana to reasonably expect to reliably get, early enough for it to matter. Needs testing.
This seems like quite a good idea, actually. This deck has some trouble coming up with hate for archetypes, so running Chord of Calling + bullets would be great. 11 mana is pretty easy to have on turn 4, I'll test out some lists with the Chord+Bullet tech.
yeah i went through my collection and various other decks and came to the conclusion that the single most game-affecting hate-creature playable in modern was elesh norn. other options include linvala, keeper of silence and of course Iona, but i'm gonna go out on a limb and say Iona's probably too expensive (in terms of triple white and the potential of drawing her in your hand)
dunno. i mean having a singleton uber-hate-card just seems right for the deck. instant hate is powerful. and sometimes you don't just want to genesis wave away if you know you can get some genuine inevitability.
here's a revised list. still sticking with the elves until i have a chance to playtest the enchantments.
http://-decks/elves-and-friends-modern/
I haven't updated it since M15 was released (and Nissa Worldwaker may be better than Xenagos); but it gives a little info on Sarkhan Vol. He does require a good amount of creatures; but you've already got that! Great idea! I can't wait to see your build and to hear how it plays!
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/elves-and-friends-modern/
and I apologize in advance if the sideboard seems outdated and/or it doesn't provide a ton of helpful information. I've been playing my current build almost solely for several months; so this one has kinda fallen by the wayside. I hope it helps a little though. Can't wait to see your build!
a) 4 Nykthos vs 3 Nykthos - in some lists there is only 3 Nykthos. While powerful, problem with Nykthos is the fact that it is 1) legendary 2) colorless land that is really bad in early stage.
b) Number of fetches. Most decks have 1 small splash for Kessig Wolf Run + 2nd splash for something else (most of the time either White or Green). How many fetchlands would you play in a 2, 3, or 4-color version.
@CurdBros
I played elf version with Primal Command / Chord with red, blue and white. Looked good, however still unrefined, dont know about all slots. Really liked those Coaling Oracles (especially when on turn 2 I pust another land that allowed me to cast visionary). In 4 games I only once had enough mana to cast genesis wave for more than 4, and at that point I could cast primal command/chord and tutor for craterhoof or elesh norn to win/wipe their board and win. I couldnt find Ezuri, might test him out somewhere, and need to think about number of every creature with a Chord - Chord looked really good with all those Visionary's and Oracles.
I would like to cut white from elf version, however every sideboard card I play with that is white work excelent in this version when chord is better: 1 offs hate creatures are mostly white, and their powerlevel is very big. I cut all abundant growths, however in 4 color it might be needed to have some number of them / have birds of paradise.
Primalcrux ($15). Seems like an absurd finisher for devotion decks and is likely going to get better as more cards come out. He provides ludicrous amounts of mana and enables cards like Nylea instantly. What do you guys think, worth shelling out for?
Regal Force ($15). Draws a lot of cards. I don't see anyone playing it on this thread so it doesn't seem as important.
I'm particularily interested in what CurdBros has to say becaus of this list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/devotion-to-green-modern-w-eidolon-of-blossoms/
CurdBros: I'm totally inspired by your effort and commitment to exploring this archetype! Thanks for all your work. Do you currently prefer your Elves version over the Eidolon version? Why?
I think you didnt read my post and what I said about Nykthos.
I didnt say anything about how good it is with Genesis Wave, because I think it is obvious. Having 2nd one and using it as a ritual is also fine, however you need to have stuff on board at that point. My point is about time, when your mana doesnt allow you to cast your spells because you have to many legendary colorless lands.
Also in my post I wrote I didnt play Genesis Wave, as in my oppinion it is overkill most of the time - when I have >9 mana I can easily win with primal command or chord. When I have less both are better most of the time. I also dont live in a magicchristmasland that I have nuts draw AND opponent isnt interacting with me. It is one of those things I am constantly pointing out.
I think while Regal Force can be good (however noone is playing it here, that is true, as it wont generate more than ~3-4 cards most of the time), Primalcrux is totally bad. It cant be cast reliably, plus it doesnt win on a turn cast, plus it doesnt do anything while coming into play, so it can be slaughter pact / path to exiled without value.
What about Khalni Hydra as well?
Having one of each on the battlefield, and nothing else, means Primalcrux is 14/14. Cast an Aspect of Hydra on Khalni and now he's 22/22. And they both trample. Seems good. A Reverent Hunter would even ETB as a 16/16 haha.
If we're to include any of this junk, how many of each, etc.? It looks fun.
(edit: the fellow above me says Primalcrux is bad, and I would he'd say the same about Khalni Hydra for mostly the same reasons... is this the "dies to removal" reasoning? What *does* win you the game the turn it drops in the decklists posted here? That's by the way a legitimate question... I'm probably just not seeing it somehow)
Craterhoof Behemoth - while it still can die to removal, it gives your non-summoning sickness creatures +X/+X trample so most of the time you can one shot your opponent.
Primeval Titan - it fetches you kessig wolf run / nykthos which is an wincon on its own next turn / this turn if you have garruk.
Garruk's Ultimatum - overrun does it most of the time with how much we flood a board.
Ezuri, Renegade's Leader - in CurdBros's elf version it acts as a overrun on a stick for elves.
Genesis Wave for bunch of guys (even without any other) / primal command lock / chord for relevant 1 off that doesnt allow them to win/ polukranos kill your whole team and swing for 20 also works. Remember you can also win by making your opponent do nothing.
here's my list:
4x wall of roots
4x garruk wildspeaker
4x eternal witness
4x chord of calling
4x kitchen finks
2x obstinate baloth
2x genesis wave
2x genesis hydra
1x inferno titan
1x wurmcoil engine
2x thragtusk
2x primeval titan
2x kessig wolf run
4x stomping ground
the general aim is to power into a big genesis wave or genesis hydra, or chord into inferno titan or wurmcoil at instant speed as early as turn 3.
works quite well.
when you get the genesis wave train going, the win condition is kessig wolfrun and any creature you had on the board from the previous turn.
anyone else running a similar thing?
i find genesis hydra to be a real HOUSE in the deck. i might run the full playset. having uncounterable genesis effect is really good in modern.
Caspian,
1. Primalcrux is absurd in Devotion decks. Chroma obviously was kinda the "first try" at devotion, so he sorta was designed to fit. He just keeps getting bigger. I like Khalni Hydra in any deck that can consistently cast him on turn 3; but this takes a lot of small creatures; so you almost have to go "all in" in that way (which can make you a little fragile to board wipes like Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods).
2. To be honest, I currently play the Elf "pure ramp" version simply because it fits my playstyle a little better Both are powerful. The Eidolon/Primalcrux version can draw more cards IF Eidolon stays on the board; however she's a pretty fragile 4-drop. I feel like the elf version has a better chance at winning grindier match-ups; but which you play is truly just dependent on your play-style. Their match-ups differ slightly; but sideboards end up being slightly different. The card that most surprised me in the build was Xenagos, God of Revels!
3. Pedros is right about Primaclrux not having haste. That is the main reasoning for the addition of Xenagos in the deck. Pedros is also right that Primalcrux can hamper how many additional colors you can splash (given his need for 6-green). These are definite downsides (and why he only fits in specific builds). The "dies to removal" is true of 75%+ of all creatures, so it's one I don't pay a ton of attention to; but he has a definite point that you can't put all your eggs in one basket if it can be removed easily. I still like him though, as with cards like Aspect of the Hydra, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, and others; he can boost the potential of nearly all of the cards in the deck.
4. I loved Reclamation Sage when it was first printed! I thought I could Chord for it, etc. Then I remembered that the cards I wanted to destroy with it ( Torpor Orb, etc.) would turn off Reclamation Sage anyways! So I went back to Nature's Claim
5. I run 3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in my current build only because with the card draw the deck has I seemed to draw multiple copies far more often than I would have liked. Also, Primeval Titan tends to grab one if I haven't got to one yet. I traditionally don't care to see a Nykthos until turn 3; and with the amount of "outside ramp" that has nothing to do with devotion; I've found that 3 is better than 4 (for me).
6. I apologize in advance. I got a little confused about the Genesis Wave thing (as you said you couldn't get past four, but you could do several other things with it). I will re-read it and try to address it better in another post (as I think it's SUPER important to find out where the Primal Command / Witness lock is better than a pure ramp/Genesis wave version). This is one of the biggest discussions in Mono-Green Devotion (in my opinion).
To be entirely honest, I haven't done an extremely ample amount of testing with the Primal Command and Eternal Witness lock. I love Eternal Witness (especially after a wave), but I found that I wanted to move very quickly and an early Witness often had very little to choose from (if anything) in the graveyard. I haven't tested nearly enough with it; and went a slightly different direction. That's what is so exciting about this primer! We can all talk about our differing builds to see where each has flourished and/or issues with each.
7. I have yet to try Genesis Hydra (I just assumed Genesis Wave would be better in a majority of situations. I can see some real potential there, however (what with Cavern of Souls, maybe grabing a Xenagos to give your big Hydra haste, etc.). For now, I'm sticking with Gen Wave; but I'd be interested to hear your history and how games went with the card Purklefluff! Your build looks really cool.
I'm sorry I didn't get in the discussion earlier today. I'll be back in about two hours as well and will try to be a little more "in depth" with the discussion and questions (especially those asked by Cranial and Caspian.
keep up the awesome brews!
here's my take:
with 4 chord of calling, i found it handy to have a whole spread of creatures to fetch, from 1 mana through to 6.
here is my updated decklist after testing:
4x elvish mystic
4x wall of roots
4x garruk wildspeaker
4x chord of calling
2x genesis wave
3x genesis hydra
1x xenagos, the reveler
1x inferno titan
1x wurmcoil engine
1x arbor colossus
1x zealous conscripts
1x obstinate baloth
1x kitchen finks
4x nykthos
genesis hydra has been great each time =)
more insight to follow. currently still playtesting.
my current take though.
1) the deck is explosive. really explosive, which is nice.
2) chord of calling is an all-star
3) needs more toolbox. what's out there in colourless, red or green that hoses enemy strategies?
4) i haven't found myself wanting primeval titan much. i can usually chord for it.
5) i really don't like the arbor elf-enchantment line for ramping. 8 elves and 4 wall of roots seems better generally.
6) i probably do want 4 genesis wave. or at least 3. and drop down on the number of hydras. hydras are nice vs. control, but against everyone else you just kind of want to "go off" and not worry about counters.
What a neat list! It is interesting to see how Genesis Hydra also can work as kind of a "toolbox" card. One card I thought of that I would like with Genesis Hydra was the Xenagos God (Xenagos, God of Revels) only because it would give your big hydra (or any other creature for that matter) +X/+X and haste.
In terms of "hosers", I've found a few in the past (when I used Chord of Calling to make a toolbox out of my sideboard) to include: Silent Arbiter (for infinite creature decks like twin and/or token decks), Magus of the Moon (scapeshift, colonnades, rock, numerous others...of course I play a lot of Forests), Scavenging Ooze (graveyard hate), Elderscale Wurm (Storm, Burn, Scapeshift, and fair deck, etc.), Ruric Thar, the Unbowed (for any spell heavy deck, control decks, etc.), Dosan the Falling Leaf (control, flash decks, etc.), and oddly enough Tajuru Preserver (for Emrakul decks like the reanimator one as he turns off Annihilator).
While I love the Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl + Garruk Wildspeaker Combo and don't think I could give it up Wall of Roots is awesome with Chord of Calling.
2x craterhoof behemoth
4x primeval titan
4x eternal witness
4x strangleroot geist
4x burning tree emissary
4x elvish visionary
4x arbor elf
4x garruk wildspeaker
4x utopia sprawl
3x genesis wave
3x primal command
14x forest
1x mountain
4x nyxthos, shrine of nyx
1x kessig wolfrun
I am thinking of adding inkmoth nexus, fertile ground, sarkhan vol, into the mix, any suggestion which card I should take out to incorporate the change? what sideboard cards would you recommend?
my thoughts so far are
3x defense grid
3x creeping corrosion
3x beast within
not sure what are the remainder to include. please advise
I haven`t tried either of them enough yet though to say for sure. Its hard enough finding room for the Courser of Kruphix.
(The 1 life per land is very relevant. Since a wave can pull you into a good position, both life and board-wise.)
I just got my 4th Nykthos and I`m starting to run 4 Burning-Tree Emesarry, still need some more cantrip creatures though. I might run the blue splash for Coiling Oracles (Since I have the lands), are there any other blue cards worth running? (Blue isn't big on permanents and gen wave is all about dudes land and enchantments....) Snapcaster mage is redundant with eternal witness I think. (yaaaay, I don't have to buy snapcasters...)
Mainly though you just use it to know when to cast that genesis hydra for mega value, 'cascading' into whatever value card you've got on top. Fetchlands help you shuffle away dead cards. Seems really good actually.
It wouldnt go in an "all in". Version of the deck, necessarily. I mean it fits better in a more interactive, 'critical mass' version of the deck that still goes off early (turn three/four possible?) but it has more lines of play available if early stuff gets disrupted.
But i could be wrong. It could be an amazing fit.
I still don't know about the enchantment-ramp thing. It just seems like it's too much "you need this card, and then this card" sort of deckbuilding. Whereas a bunch of mana elves just do their thing, don't need other specific cards to be good, and ramp you quickly into big stuff, sometimes just winning you the game with a garruk overrun on turn 4. Wall of roots specifically has been an all-star and i'm sticking with four. Chord of calling is such a blowout here leading up to a genesis wave or toolboxing really nasty creatures like inferno titan against your opponent on turn 3.
I would however consider bringing in the enchantment ramp after sideboard, to counteract their pyroclasms, anger of the gods and whatever else removal they bring in. That sounds like a good deal.
I'm considering seeing if i can jam something like elesh norn, grand cenobite in the deck as a singleton. It's hard to know whether it'll bite me in the butt, but being able to chord, wave or hydra it out very early in the game just seems like a really powerful trick to play against a lot of the modern field. Specifically twin, pod, jund, bogles, affinity, zoo, UWR midrange, UWR control etc.
Doesnt hurt scapeshift, ad nauseam or storm but then we've potentially got iona, shield of emeria for them, if we can consider chording for iona a viable prospect. I think it might be just too much mana to reasonably expect to reliably get, early enough for it to matter. Needs testing.
In general, I would suggest that people re-read the primer. I'm seeing discussion about cards like Primalcrux and that's specifically addressed in the primer. I also think I have to go back into the old thread to dig up the discussions we had about Sarkan Vol, Xenagos, etc. I would also recommend reading Michael Jacob's SCG article (linked in the primer) for his thoughts on those cards.
And just a housekeeping thing. When posting deck lists, or single card discussions, can you please use the appropriate tags. The bbcode for them is pretty simple and is in the top part of the reply window. Just makes the thread a lot nicer
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yeah i went through my collection and various other decks and came to the conclusion that the single most game-affecting hate-creature playable in modern was elesh norn. other options include linvala, keeper of silence and of course Iona, but i'm gonna go out on a limb and say Iona's probably too expensive (in terms of triple white and the potential of drawing her in your hand)
other options are
angel of serenity
sundering titan
ulamog, the infinite gyre
dunno. i mean having a singleton uber-hate-card just seems right for the deck. instant hate is powerful. and sometimes you don't just want to genesis wave away if you know you can get some genuine inevitability.
here's a revised list. still sticking with the elves until i have a chance to playtest the enchantments.
4x noble hierarch (directly replacing elvish mystic)
4x wall of roots
4x garruk wildspeaker
4x chord of calling
3x genesis wave
2x genesis hydra
3x eternal witness
1x kitchen finks
1x obstinate baloth
1x zealous conscripts
1x inferno titan
1x primeval titan
1x wurmcoil engine
1x elesh norn, grand cenobite
4x stomping ground
2x copperline gorge
1x temple garden
2x kessig wolf run
11x forest
seems like fun. i like spellskite here as a chord target for early in the game against troublesome decks.