Ya I remember either the first or second FNM I took this deck to...my brain was already fried from trying to keep track of all the triggers and lines of play. It literally took me 5 minutes of trying to properly sequence my plays to get a hivemind into play. I knew I could do it but I just couldn't line the play up in my mind. Luckily it was against one of my buddies and he was pretty understanding lol
Ya I remember either the first or second FNM I took this deck to...my brain was already fried from trying to keep track of all the triggers and lines of play. It literally took me 5 minutes of trying to properly sequence my plays to get a hivemind into play. I knew I could do it but I just couldn't line the play up in my mind. Luckily it was against one of my buddies and he was pretty understanding lol
lucky for you then. there are some that are not very understanding regarding the fact that you need to think at times.. It is a deck which you probably need to goldfish quite a bit at home before bringing to tournaments. lol..
Tier 1 ? Well, I guess it had to happen one day. Can't be good and hope to stay under the radar forever. No more easy wins against opponents that haven't got a clue about what we do.
Regarding sideboard, is Obstinate Baloth good enough against abzan/jund/whatever deck with Liliana ? Kanister, I think I saw a few of them in one of your recent lists, what's your impression ?
And that Hornet Queen played by Cohen, good idea or not ? It's a nice threat/defense, but 7 mana seems a bit expensive to me. Same with Thragtusk. But it can kill a Tasigur or a Rhino, and a Baloth can't, so I don't know...
The Bojuka bog is probably a bit for my own meta.. I get value from all the snapcaster, unburual rites, and random things being played. And it's usually better in those matchups than the lifegain and saproling land. (not to mention graveyard decks)
I also have a kessig wolf run instead of the Tendo Ice Bridge. (Also just 1 cavern)
I go a bit back and forth on it, but since I run the SSG version, I have a bigger mass of creatures to pump.
I am looking to change my sideboard a bit.
Not sold on having another slaughter pact, and I'm wondering wether I should have hornet queen and ruric thar etc. I realize the PT deck was heavily tuned against Abzan, but I guess other metas as different, as that deck is really expensive.
Is there an obvious sideboard that is amazing in many matchups that I am missing?
Does the trigger from City every come into play as opposed to the triggerless ability of Confluence? IS the trigger every too bad of a consequence to play it?
As to the sideboard guide listed by Izzetmage; the meta has shifted a lot as has the sideboard since that was written (Pod/Delver are not around, the sideboard is more creature heavy/less artifact heavy). Maybe we should be discussing the sideboarding plan a little bit more now?
Tier 1 ? Well, I guess it had to happen one day. Can't be good and hope to stay under the radar forever. No more easy wins against opponents that haven't got a clue about what we do.
Regarding sideboard, is Obstinate Baloth good enough against abzan/jund/whatever deck with Liliana ? Kanister, I think I saw a few of them in one of your recent lists, what's your impression ?
And that Hornet Queen played by Cohen, good idea or not ? It's a nice threat/defense, but 7 mana seems a bit expensive to me. Same with Thragtusk. But it can kill a Tasigur or a Rhino, and a Baloth can't, so I don't know...
As I stated multiple times, my philosophy against rock decks is that bringing in additional creatures is not that good, because a) if you resolve a Titan you are already winning unless they pack 4 Deathmarks in their sideboard, b) one of those creatures is as good as Titan is. I learned it the hard way multiple times. Wurmcoil Engine is great and hard to deal with, but Wurmcoil Engine vs opponents deck doesn't work. Even in Jund times it wasn't game winning because Terminating the Wurmcoil, Decaying the Deathtouch token, outclass the Lifelink one with Goyfs was certainly card disadvantage for the Jund player, but the point is, as I believe Justin Cohen and Sam Black pointed out during their deck tech, the deck is playing a different game than most of Modern decks are. Sigarda is also a great creature, unkillable and evasive and stuff - but essentially, all their Rhinos and Goyfs and Oozes are the same, since you don't really interact with them, they are just clocking you. 8 power kills faster than 5 power, I believe. Heck, I even play with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon for the lulz, and while it's a powerful card, it is not powerful enough to win the game on it's own, despite having two abilities that protect him from creatures by removing them.
Hornet Queen has the same problems. It is not even like it is unanwserable - Pulse clears tokens, Decaying them one-by-one is painful, but can work, if somebody ever does not sideboard their Lingering Souls, well, they beat Hornet Queen pretty handily. It isn't even good at blocking Rhino, lol. It's crazy how relevant is that creature, even fora deck like ours.
Hence why I wanted to try something like Obstinate Baloths. They should be pretty good against Liliana, and they cost only 4, so you can do something while assembling six mana, providing a 4/4 body and gaining you life. But so far I am not impressed with it. 4/4 sucks, because Rhino and Goyf and Tasigur have that one crucial point of thoughness more. Therefore it doesn't add too muc useful board presence. But I have yet to drop it with Liliana's +1, so I guess I will try it a bit more.
Maybe I am wrong, and having a bunch of value-creatures in the sb is okay, and I am focused way too much on Fullminator Mage. But I still believe that rock being not a positive matchup is this guy's fault.
So what do you think is the right approach to GBx? Are we just dogs in the match up? Is there some sort of sideboard we are not looking at? I agree with you that Wurmcoil seems good on paper but rarely works out in play; especially with Abzan being the more popular of the GBx decks and their love of the Path. IF Jund was popular again (relying on Bolt and a few terminates) Wurmcoil might be the good-to but Path just hurts.
I disagree with the hate for Sigarda; 5/5 flyer with hexproof and eliminating sacrifices, is strong. Add a Slayer's Stronghold and a 7/5 flying hexproof vilgence creature is hard to pass up. I do agree that the increase in popularity of Lingering Souls does hurt her but maybe Kessig Wolf Run needs to be re-looked at. Even just a Gruul Turf + Wolf Run to give trample is not a bad idea.
Something no one really talks about that I think gives the deck a few workable spots is that Gruul Turf (and therefore R) is not mandatory for the deck. Gruul Turf fills in as Simic Growth Chamber 5-7 but we run no maindeck R cards and only a few sideboard,
Would increasing the number of Golgari Rot Farm or Selesnya Sanctuary and therefore giving us access to more W or B mana open up viable sideboard options?
Grave Titan can act as a replacement for Wurmcoil that is much harder to completely remove (giving 2 zombie tokens right away and 2 more if we haste it). It also shares the Giant subtype, so it can be uncounterable due to Cavern of Souls without making Primeval Titans worse. Maybe there is some GB creature that might fill the gap?
I'm not saying its right or better just an option?
I find it hard to believe that removing Hive Mind is ever correct. Hive Mind is how this deck out speeds the fastest decks in the format. It gives you inevitability against a huge portion of decks that Primeval Titan can't beat on their own. It's how this deck can potentially turn 1 (with SSG).
Crucible of Worlds is a great answer to LD. Leyline is a great option against discard, no matter how janky it may seem.
Wow, Tier 1! Apparently I should pick this deck up again! I still have it built, and it looks like the maindeck hasn't really changed much since this thread was in 'Modern Deck Creation'. I remember my biggest problem with the deck was not finding the right pieces; I always thought how Impulse would help this deck unbelievably.
Regarding the current discussion:
What about Pithing Needle? Stops Fulminator, Lili, Tec Edge, Karn, Lightning Storm; can be found with Ancient Stirrings or Trinket Mage (although, unfortunately not Tolaria West). Too narrow?
I personally removed hive mind. Yes, its a wincon with the pacts but it doesnt have a built in card advatangr unlike wurmcoil, ugin, karn.
To be replaced with Karn or Ugin?
I agree they might be viable sideboard options for the GBx match up (Ugin and -4 clears their board completely) but as a replacement maindeck instead of Hive Mind seems foolhardy to me.... You only lose 2-3 slots in the deck and the synergy with the pacts (that work so well with Primeval Titan) makes the payoff just too great for the cost. I agree that Hive Mind is not the "Best" card but its ability to win the game on the spot in otherwise unwinnable board positions make it a pillar of the deck.
The Hive Mind strategy is good but still requires a summoners pact / pact of negation in hand to activate the wincon. I think there are other ways to abuse the amulet-summer bloom combination to make the deck more efficient.
Does the trigger from City every come into play as opposed to the triggerless ability of Confluence? IS the trigger every too bad of a consequence to play it?
As to the sideboard guide listed by Izzetmage; the meta has shifted a lot as has the sideboard since that was written (Pod/Delver are not around, the sideboard is more creature heavy/less artifact heavy). Maybe we should be discussing the sideboarding plan a little bit more now?
Twin decks can tap your City of Brass causing 1 extra damage every once in a while. i Personally am going to run Cirty of Brass just based on price. Maybe get confluence once its out of standard
Wow, Tier 1! Apparently I should pick this deck up again! I still have it built, and it looks like the maindeck hasn't really changed much since this thread was in 'Modern Deck Creation'. I remember my biggest problem with the deck was not finding the right pieces; I always thought how Impulse would help this deck unbelievably.
Regarding the current discussion:
What about Pithing Needle? Stops Fulminator, Lili, Tec Edge, Karn, Lightning Storm; can be found with Ancient Stirrings or Trinket Mage (although, unfortunately not Tolaria West). Too narrow?
Its not a bad idea, my only issue is that people are boarding in artifact removal/abrupt decays against us and they all kill needle too......
Crucible of Worlds is not a bad one, since it lets us cycle some Ghost Quarters as well and with Asuza or Summerbloom would make for some nut land destruction of our own
Does the trigger from City every come into play as opposed to the triggerless ability of Confluence? IS the trigger every too bad of a consequence to play it?
As to the sideboard guide listed by Izzetmage; the meta has shifted a lot as has the sideboard since that was written (Pod/Delver are not around, the sideboard is more creature heavy/less artifact heavy). Maybe we should be discussing the sideboarding plan a little bit more now?
Twin decks can tap your causing 1 extra damage every once in a while. i Personally am going to run Cirty of Brass just based on price. Maybe get confluence once its out of standard
You'd be perfectly happy with Twin tapping down your City of Brass. Generally there are either tapping a Karoo or a Titan. I run a City because I already owned one. I think 6 copies of Tendo or Gemstone is fine too.
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Regarding sideboard, is Obstinate Baloth good enough against abzan/jund/whatever deck with Liliana ? Kanister, I think I saw a few of them in one of your recent lists, what's your impression ?
And that Hornet Queen played by Cohen, good idea or not ? It's a nice threat/defense, but 7 mana seems a bit expensive to me. Same with Thragtusk. But it can kill a Tasigur or a Rhino, and a Baloth can't, so I don't know...
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Seal of Primordium
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Firespout
1 Thragtusk
1 Slaughter pact
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nature's Claim
The Bojuka bog is probably a bit for my own meta.. I get value from all the snapcaster, unburual rites, and random things being played. And it's usually better in those matchups than the lifegain and saproling land. (not to mention graveyard decks)
I also have a kessig wolf run instead of the Tendo Ice Bridge. (Also just 1 cavern)
I go a bit back and forth on it, but since I run the SSG version, I have a bigger mass of creatures to pump.
I am looking to change my sideboard a bit.
Not sold on having another slaughter pact, and I'm wondering wether I should have hornet queen and ruric thar etc. I realize the PT deck was heavily tuned against Abzan, but I guess other metas as different, as that deck is really expensive.
Is there an obvious sideboard that is amazing in many matchups that I am missing?
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
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Big Johnny.
Does the trigger from City every come into play as opposed to the triggerless ability of Confluence? IS the trigger every too bad of a consequence to play it?
As to the sideboard guide listed by Izzetmage; the meta has shifted a lot as has the sideboard since that was written (Pod/Delver are not around, the sideboard is more creature heavy/less artifact heavy). Maybe we should be discussing the sideboarding plan a little bit more now?
So what do you think is the right approach to GBx? Are we just dogs in the match up? Is there some sort of sideboard we are not looking at? I agree with you that Wurmcoil seems good on paper but rarely works out in play; especially with Abzan being the more popular of the GBx decks and their love of the Path. IF Jund was popular again (relying on Bolt and a few terminates) Wurmcoil might be the good-to but Path just hurts.
I disagree with the hate for Sigarda; 5/5 flyer with hexproof and eliminating sacrifices, is strong. Add a Slayer's Stronghold and a 7/5 flying hexproof vilgence creature is hard to pass up. I do agree that the increase in popularity of Lingering Souls does hurt her but maybe Kessig Wolf Run needs to be re-looked at. Even just a Gruul Turf + Wolf Run to give trample is not a bad idea.
Something no one really talks about that I think gives the deck a few workable spots is that Gruul Turf (and therefore R) is not mandatory for the deck. Gruul Turf fills in as Simic Growth Chamber 5-7 but we run no maindeck R cards and only a few sideboard,
Would increasing the number of Golgari Rot Farm or Selesnya Sanctuary and therefore giving us access to more W or B mana open up viable sideboard options?
Grave Titan can act as a replacement for Wurmcoil that is much harder to completely remove (giving 2 zombie tokens right away and 2 more if we haste it). It also shares the Giant subtype, so it can be uncounterable due to Cavern of Souls without making Primeval Titans worse. Maybe there is some GB creature that might fill the gap?
I'm not saying its right or better just an option?
Crucible of Worlds is a great answer to LD. Leyline is a great option against discard, no matter how janky it may seem.
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Regarding the current discussion:
What about Pithing Needle? Stops Fulminator, Lili, Tec Edge, Karn, Lightning Storm; can be found with Ancient Stirrings or Trinket Mage (although, unfortunately not Tolaria West). Too narrow?
To be replaced with Karn or Ugin?
I agree they might be viable sideboard options for the GBx match up (Ugin and -4 clears their board completely) but as a replacement maindeck instead of Hive Mind seems foolhardy to me.... You only lose 2-3 slots in the deck and the synergy with the pacts (that work so well with Primeval Titan) makes the payoff just too great for the cost. I agree that Hive Mind is not the "Best" card but its ability to win the game on the spot in otherwise unwinnable board positions make it a pillar of the deck.
Wurmcoil engine- resilient card
Karn - multiple removal card
Ugin - multiple wrath effects
Kiora - semi card advantage. 2 explore spells in one card.
Honestly, Im surprised that this deck can produce 6 mana in turn 2. This is better than Urza lands.
Twin decks can tap your City of Brass causing 1 extra damage every once in a while. i Personally am going to run Cirty of Brass just based on price. Maybe get confluence once its out of standard
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Its not a bad idea, my only issue is that people are boarding in artifact removal/abrupt decays against us and they all kill needle too......
Crucible of Worlds is not a bad one, since it lets us cycle some Ghost Quarters as well and with Asuza or Summerbloom would make for some nut land destruction of our own
You'd be perfectly happy with Twin tapping down your City of Brass. Generally there are either tapping a Karoo or a Titan. I run a City because I already owned one. I think 6 copies of Tendo or Gemstone is fine too.