At the moment I'm running 1x ranger as the fifth tribe scout. Seems like a great idea. In the other flex slot I'm running 1x trinket mage.
What's the consensus here? I haven't got many reps with the deck yet and I'm feeling like trinket mage is super slow? Please advise. Maybe my play patterns are wonky.
Mage seems slow at first, but when you take into account that it's a value piece more than a combo piece, things fall into place. Grabbing a second Amulet can be very useful, certainly, but I like Mage as a way to grab EE or Ballista when you need them while being a body you can just throw away.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Ok so I'm going to do 1 of my event reports that come around every so often! I played in a small monthly event (5 rounds to top 8 cut). First, the decklist... I was using my flex slot and my SB to try and beat Grixis Shadow, Burn and hopefully help me vs Pheonix - I didnt know what would be at the event, so just based it off MTGO meta.
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boros Garrison
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Forest
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Gruul Turf
1 Khalni Garden
1 Radiant Fountain
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Explore
1 Pact of Negation
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
1 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
And here's how the games played out (from memory):
Round 1 vs GW hatebears - I didn't see a tonne of my opponents deck, but it was a GW Coco deck. Im not sure if it was valuetown or hatebears really. Anyway, my opp had only been playing mtg for a few weeks, but he played REALLY well. A few mis-sequencing things that could have benefitted me, but ended up not mattering. I spoke to my opp during the game to point out those things, since he likely wouldn't recognise those "mistakes" otherwise (since they didnt end up mattering). Overall though, the opponent played really well.
Anyway, Game 1 I mulled and kept a pretty medium hand, but it could make mana and had a ballista. I drew into a titan eventually, after the ballista really did some work. Their deck wasn't really capable of handling the squadron titan mode.
Game 2 went a bit longer, but again I drew ballista and htis time also EE. I played a bit like a control deck, and they could never get going. I landed the first titan, they coco-ed and hit aven mindcensor which was inconvenient, but that's all it was. Closed it out quite comfortably from there. These sort of MUs are a nightmare for my opps deck, so that all went well.
Round 2 vs Dredge - Didn't know I was against dredge, they kept 7 on the play, and I mulled to a bad 5. I kept 4 lands stirrings hoping to find amulet and be facing a durdly deck (1 of the lands was a boucneland, another was cavern). They lead on looting so i knew what was oging on, I went forest stirrings wiff. Turn 2 Cavern naming Merfolk having drawn a blank and scoop. The bluff is unlikely to work, but it certainly got my opponent thinking!
Game 2 is the reverse. I keep a good 7, they mull to 5. Their mull to 5 is much better than mine last time out, but a Turn 3 azusa into turn 4 titan on the play is enough this time around.
Game 3 I mull to 5(!!) and my opp mulls to 4(!!). Crazy really. I dont really remember how my opponents hand works out, but I go Turn 1 scout, turn 2 amulet, turn 3 titan. Having ripped the amulet and titan in consecutive turns. Luck on my side!
Round 3 vs Jund - I don't remember a lot of the details here, the games went very long, all 3. The first was pretty funny, because neither of us could get going. I didnt draw a titan for days, and they had a turn 2 bob. However, he wasn't hitting extra threats. He just kept pushing, bolting, and k-commanding all my ramp (amulet, scout, azusas all died), but I didn't really care. They were just being played because it's all i had. He landed a lili, but then eventually I drew a titan, and started the chain. I kept sandbanging lands to bait out thoughtseizes and to throw away to k-command/lili's (which worked perfectly). Eventually, we were in a spot where my opp was down to just 2 life from bob and thoughtseizes etc, with just bob in play. I had a plant and slayers + boros in play. I play vesuva copying the plant and just pass. He now has to answer both plants and dodge bob... bob reveals assassin's trophy. Terrible game, really funny. I lose Game 2 and win Game 3, but don't remember exactly how!
Round 4 vs Dredge - this was really funny. I was against a mate of mine, and another mate was sat next to me. I'm paired down, and we both know what we're on. My opp asks me to scoop him into the top 8, so i tell him to get lost. I said I'd take an ID if he fancied playing a win-and-in in Round 5, and explained that the MU is amulet heavy. He says no. I joke and say he can go on the play... he goes "really" and i say "if you win the dice roll". He does. I then proceed to play lose Game 1 on the draw, and its REALLY close. He keeps 1 land looting and plays looting. Discards 2 dredgers but takes a draw step... he's missing his second land, and rips it Turn 2. He then goes off, and has lethal on his turn 4. On my turn 3 though, I resolve a titan. I eat his GY and make a plant. Opp can now put me to 1, has a hand of loam, 3 lands, stinkweed (i knew all that info from his previous turns) and has shrinkhorn in play with 1 counter. He taps it and hits creeping chill for lethal. Ouch!
I offer the ID, which we all find pretty funny.
Game 2 is mental... i go at least 8-10 turns just using bog, bounceland and relic. I'm at least 15 cards deep but never find a titan. Eventually they piece together a kill, and I check the next 3 cards, still no threat. Wasn't to be!
Currently 3-1-0, and can ID into the top 8, which I do.
Quarter Finals vs BG Rock - Everyone knows what everyons playing at this point. The top 8 is 2-amuleters, Pheonix, Dredge, BG Rock, Burn, Storm and tron... a pretty good top 8 for amulet.
I win game 1 on the back of an early relic. My opp has 2 goyfs that can never grow, and no other pressure. I resolve something like a turn 6 titan and start chaining them together for what felt like a comfortable win.
Game 2 I don't remember particularly well, but there was a good bit of back n forth. My opp played an early bob, tracker and kalitas. I abrade both bob and tracker, and kalitas sticks. I eventually land a titan, but have to grab T-west + Khalni because I know about a lili. My opp pushes the plant and takes out the titan, and I never draw a 2nd threat.
Game 3. A lot of back n forth again here, but this time my opp goes field of ruin on simic growth and surgicals it. Its a nice line which I didn't expect. There's a key turn where my opp completely overcommits with Bob, Goyf, Goyf and Scooze. I have trinket mage in hand which he knows about, but only 6 mana (not enough to play mage, Ee and crack it - and i know about an assassin's trophy so dont want to expose an EE). So I decide to play explore first, which finds me a relic. I decide to play that over the trinket mage, since I'll have enough mana to mage into EE next turn, and relic shrinks the goyfs and scooze all in 1 go. I'm feeling pretty good about my spot. The Bob flips a thoughtseize which is the key moment, they take trinket mage and I'm unable to recover. In this game, we go to around turn 8-10 again, and I don't find a single titan. Although I had some removal, I only ever get to play a single baloth that matters all game (don't see tracker, baloth No.2, Chameleon Colossus, titans or pacts). Its worth noting that a t-west wouldnt have been relevant because of the surgical line my opp took.
I finish the day 3-2 with a quarterfinals loss. It was a good day out, but I'm dissapointed to lose to Dredge and BG Rock, mainly because I didn't draw a titan. In both, I was in a good spot and played fairly well. I wasn't punished for my lack of paths, and the top 8, outside of pheonix, was pretty favourable for me. The fellow amulet-er lost to burn in their quarters unfortunately.
And finally a discussion on the card choices:
1. I wanted to play Paths and a white manabase, but didn't have the paths. So, I went with a pretty close to stock red list (though those haven't really existed since KCI dissapeared). Anyway, I was worried about that, but never faced a situation where it mattered. I boarded in Abrade vs my R1 opp, and both BGx decks. I drew it 4 times, and on all 4 occasions the target I wanted to kill could be killed (including a T2 Goyf, a small tracker and bob). It had the upside of not ramping my opp. However, had I faced Izzet Pheonix (which won the event) or Grixis Shadow, i'd have been pretty sad about it all!
2. In 2 of my post-board games vs Jund and BG Rock, I had Chameleon Colossus in my opener, which sucked. However, both my opps were forced to Thoughtseize it away, which let an azusa resolve. All in all, a fine exchange.
3. The singleton Trinket Mage was again pretty decent but not ground-breaking. It ate discard spells, but rarely fetched up amulet. I'm still ok with 1 copy rather than 2.
4. Explore kept being medium like it always is. I liked it vs Jund and BG. I still consider this card best of the rest.
5. Spell Pierce got boarded in vs Dredge, but I only drew it once in the 4 SB games, and it was too late in the game. It tagged a Conflag for 4, but it wasn't really ground-breaking. It was, however, better than a negate. I wanted to swap 1 Pierce for a Negate before the event, and likely will when I pick 1 up (i didnt get to the store in time). However, Pierce is still great.
Not much else to say, the decklist is fairly stock, I didn't miss white this time but probably will next time! I am still pretty happy with 28 lands, 3 explore, 1 trinket mage + 1 other as my list, and even if I go to white, I'll stick with this approach. My flex slot will depend on what I expect to see. I consider Relic, Rec Sage, & Baloth all reasonable MD inclusions in that spot.
In the game where you are against rock and play titan, fetching t-west and a khalni garden (because you knew about lili)
Wouldn't it have been better to fetch t-west and simic bounce land in order to fetch another titan same turn or turn after? That way they have limited options with their lili
I dunno. I'm thinking the line you took just gave you one out and didn't give you the option of chaining another threat, which is going to be the basis of winning that matchup if I'm understanding it correctly? (I might not be, to be sure. I haven't played the deck very much)
I'd like your opinion on this. What do you reckon?
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
@k0no - that's not something i had considered too much. The issue is that by not getting the plant, you guarentee they can kill the titan. Getting the plant forces them to have removal + lili. At the time, I applied the theory that I would have a lot of topdecks to be able to pick up the t-west, and the pay-off for blanking the lili is massive.
The other thing to take into account is that i didn't have amulet, so it would have taken me 2 turns to recover with a t-west, which opens me up to inquisition + thoughtseize (i didnt have mana for transmute and titan in 1 go).
I can see a scenario where it is correct to run head first into the lili, and I hadnt honestly spent long considering that. Its almost second nature to grab plant when facing rock. I'll certainly think about that more next time! I think my line was correct this time, but doesn't mean it will always be.
@k0no As far as the flex spots go- obligatory comment on whatever meta you're in. Kruphix is sometimes just needed to stay alive in a fair-er meta. Trinket mage helps with the sideboard plan more so that just being amulet 5/6. And of course the ranger really does maximize T1 plays. All that being said, I think the best thing to test is.............. the London mulligan.
This deck, needs the early consistency most, which is somewhat provided by the new mulligan, and in each of their own ways was previously provided by the flex creatures. Instead of seeing what flex spot is best for the new meta, I've been trying to see what is most effective in the new system.
Preliminary thoughts, imo, Trinket Mage has been the most useful as it has a much higher impact in the post board games and is either an amulet or can be shipped away in the opening hand when it is clunky. However, my meta is over saturated with humans/spirits/elves, resulting in me always wanting 2 EE activations per game.
So, is the version with 3 Coalition Relic, 4 Selesnya Sanctuary, 2 Trinket Mage, and 4 SB Path to Exile just everyone's accepted version of Amulet Titan right now? I came back from a Invitational Cash tournament and Amulet like this top 4ed. Then I also saw the store's best Team player also on that version. What gives?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
So, is the version with 3 Coalition Relic, 4 Selesnya Sanctuary, 2 Trinket Mage, and 4 SB Path to Exile just everyone's accepted version of Amulet Titan right now? I came back from a Invitational Cash tournament and Amulet like this top 4ed. Then I also saw the store's best Team player also on that version. What gives?
So we've talked about this a lot in the Amulet Titan discord, but the summary is basically that Relic is very good when people are trying to Blood Moon you and lets you sneak out turn 4 Titans when you wouldn't otherwise be able too, Trinket Mage can get you Amulets or Ballista or EE and is just a good multipurpose tool, and the Sanctuary and the Paths are mainly because there are a lot of creatures these days which Dismember and Abrade can't hit and Path is just the cleanest tool we have for answering them out of the board. Path can also be a little bit of Blood Moon insurance - Pathing your own dork in response to a Moon and then landing a Titan, for example.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Yeah spawnofhastur is correct with everything he has said above.
For me, I'm down to 1 trinket mage. I don't particularly like it in my opener, unless it's alongside scout/amulet, at which point, it's just a nice-to-have, not a key piece. It's nice off teh top sometimes, giving you some interaction and/or some explosiveness.
The Path to Exiles are pretty good right now. Abrade is a lot worse without KCI, and there's not too many creature decks that care about firespout right now. That could easily change. I do still run a single dismember though, because it's significantly better than path against decks like storm and anything with bobs. Ramping people on Turn 2 isn't great. The main issue is that you can't realistically run 2+ dismembers, the life pain is rough. I could see a list with 4 golgari rot farms and dismember though. You get access to Bog for black mana too.
I do think we're close to a known best-list right now, but the SB will change when the format does, which will dictate whether or not you want Paths or sweepers, and it's pretty easy to get the mana to incorporate that.
This is a bit sad to me. I guess I'll have to pick up more Selesnya Sanctuarys. Also need to get 2 more Coalition Relics. I personally like the older version; I didn't even like the Through the Breach version.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
@FoodChainGoblins - I dont think you need to be sad! I went to an event the other day and played my "old skool" red version, with abrade, firespout and 3 explore. I counted every time Abrade was better than path, and every time it was worse. Because of the match-up lottery that exists in Modern, I ended up with 100% of my MUs where Abrade was better (because it didn't ramp, and the 2nd mana didn't matter). Its unlikely to be like that often, but you have to remember a couple of things:
1) the core of our deck, and indeed 56 of the 60 cards main, are all already powerful - if you add a trinket mage or a coalition relic instead of some explores, its not going to be a big difference in the majority of games
2) you don't board in creature removal in every MU!
As a result, you can play what you want to an extent. I still think Path is well placed, but it doesn't mean its the best card every time you play. If you are playing a GP or something like that, then sure, you want every % you can get. But if you're playing even 6-7 rounds (e.g. Modern Challenge online), I'm pretty sure you can get away with whatever you want.
Coalition Relic is again just "well placed" right now. It fights blood moon pretty well.
I'm interested in how people currently feel on the zacama vs ballista slot
My read is that it's got something to do with the tutor chain to get the card into your hand, right? Ballista requires tolaria and zacama works off pact. Pact can be fetched up with tolaria but tolaria needs to be drawn and can't be tutored up (except by titan). So I'm guessing that it's a form of security against late-game topdecking where any part of the tutor-chain eventually leads you to a zacama, whereas only specific parts of the tutor-chain lead you directly to a ballista.
Also, I'm (rightly or wrongly) assuming that the artifact/enchantment removal is a prime motivator for including zacama. Lifegain perhaps not so much although I can see it mattering occasionally.
Are people running the dinosaur?
I bought one the other day to test it out, but haven't got any games under my belt yet.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
@ k0no - I think you're a fair bit off with the ballista / zacama analysis unfortunately!!!
The issue isn't about "how easy is it to find". Generally speaking, the both fall into the camp of "at their best AFTER you resolve a titan". As a result, it's pretty irrelevant on how you get it. If you land a titan, you're using t-west to get hold of 1 of these 2 cards.
Here's where most people lie on the situation:
1. Zacama is at its best when you're already winning.
2. Walking Ballista is better in your opening hand - there's a non-zero amount of games where you go T2 Ballista for 1 kill your Bob / BOP / Delver or whatever might be about.
As a result, Ballista is seen as a removal spell with more flexibility, whereas Zacama is seen as winmore.
However... there will always be areas where Zacama is better and vise versa. As an example, it's pretty easy to see spots where a titan gets pathed, but a follow up Zacama just takes over the game (lets say, vs spirits). Ballista in that spot might kill 1 creature, not 3. There's also the "cornercase" spot where you pick up Ballista off Stirrings, which can't happen with Zacama. Its more about power vs flexibility though, and i think Ballista is better for a consistent gameplan.
Honestly, a lot of amulet players will tell you never to drop Ballista. I've always had a different opinion in that i think it's a very good tool to have, but it's not ground-breaking. I also like as much of my 60 to look good in my opening hand, and ballista (and zacama) don't. Ive been known to register Courser of Kruphix in Ballista's spot for this reason, but I nearly always end back up on Ballista. My point is though, that it's not crucial or irreplaceable. Play what you want
A popular enough sideboard card in other green decks for attrition and grindy matchups but also quite synergistic with our deck.
Got legs? I'm feeling like, in a similar way to how infect has previously run a couple of copies of 'tiny' nissa for a second angle of attack to stretch removal or resources and switch up to a more pliable gameplan with less vulnerabilities after board, maybe we can operate under that rationale for including vital force in our sideboard.
As a group, I'm sure some of you may have even tried the card. GB rock decks are floating around in abundance right now so I could see maybe 1x in our 75 being a decent option
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
So, I split in the finals of a cash Modern tournament today with Amulet. I was planning on playing Dredge because whenever I do poorly, my friend says it's because I switch decks too much. I don't think it's that. I just do well with a deck in the beginning and when I learn to play it better, variance kicks my butt. I let my friend borrow GB Rock and he told me to borrow his "deck." I thought it was Titan Breach, which I was going to turn down, but when I saw the new version of Amulet with Coalition Relic, I couldn't turn it down. 20 players only.
Round 1 vs. GB Rock. Yes, we played against our own decks. We actually both didn't know the deck list completely, so we each had to change our deck lists before playing. Luckily it was us, so no game losses. He discarded me, then Goyf put pressure. My Titan was too late. No Amulet. In the next game, I had a line that would have beaten him. I went for Prime Time with Summoner's Pact because I thought he would play Liliana of the Veil if I got Chameleon Colossus. It turns out he had no answer and it would have beaten him. Instead, he used Assassin's Trophy, creatures, and some other removal before drawing Lily 2 turns later to kill my 2nd Prime Time and get in for lethal. Rough start. 0-2.
Round 2 vs. Shape Anew. I know this is not a "real" deck, but I nearly lost the match. He does Disenchant in game 1 on my Amulet, then Blade Splicer into Shape Anew for Blightsteel Colossus. I attack him with a hasty Prime Time and he declines to block. This gives me a line to kill him next turn, as I have enough chumps to not take lethal 11 poison. But he untaps and plays the card he drew, Wing Splicer, giving his Blightsteel Colossus flying. In the next few games, I had Path to Exiles, Negate, and pressure to kill him in a slower game and he didn't goldfish it by turn 4. Much easier when I drew good. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Elves. I groaned because I knew what he was playing and we talked for a cool one. He took things with stride, despite the absolute best hands I could have. Honestly there isn't much to say here. I nut drew him and killed him with double Amulet on turn 3 in both games. He just played some Elves and 3 Lords in 2 games, but turn 3s are turn 3s. 32 damage in the 2nd game, insane stuff. I don't think I've had that since Summer Bloom. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Humans. Very weird game. He put on the pressure and I made the right decision to power out an Azusa on turn 2 with Summoner's Pact. I blew up an EE on 2 and declined a chump block on a 6/6 Champ to fall to 6 life because if I drew a land next turn, I play the other land from hand and have a Hornet Queen with Slayer's Stronghold. I end up winning with that and Sunhome, Legion of the Fortress because of the tokens, which he finds Deputy of Detention nearly in time, but I get Khalni Heart going, he makes a big mistake twice attacking into first strike deathtouch with Mantis Riders, and I swing with Slayer's Stronghold and Sunhome for 8 damage when he's at 6 and I'm at 2 after his alpha strike. The next game shows where inexperience hurt many players here at this venue. It's kind of out in the boonies, which is one reason people didn't show up. He plays 2 Meddling Mages, naming Hornet Queen on both. He loses to a resolved Titan chain a few turns later when I put a bunch of chumps out and then drew Amulet in time to have Sunhome active on attacks. The crazy thing is I barely won despite many mistakes and a lack of knowledge of the Modern meta by my opponent. Nice guy; just not too experienced in Modern. No offense meant. He was really intrigued by "my" (my friend's deck) deck. 2-0.
Round 5 vs. Jund. ID into the top 8. 0-0-3.
Top 8 vs. Sultai Reclamation splash White. He Cryptic Commands a Karoo to make me unable to pay Pact. I had forgotten about that line, despite me assuming 1 of the 3 cards (after his draw step) would be Cryptic Command and he already had mana. Big mistake. One more turn later and I would have been safe. Huge punt. I had 3 mana after the bounce. Doh! In the next few games, he didn't have the nuts, we both mulled to 6, and Cavern of Souls was an animal in getting multiple Prime Times to get there. I got scared in Game 3 when I had Pact of Negation, which he knew about, but he had 2 cards. I played Reclamation Sage, targeting his Wilderness Reclamation and when it resolved, I assumed I was most likely going to win there. Whew! 2-1.
Top 4 vs. Living End. I made Kabira Crossroads twice to go to 24. He Living Ends before a Prime Time kills him when I transmute Tolaria West with double Amulet in play. He swung me for 20 with Violent Outburst next turn to 4 life, but I swing for a million after getting Summoner's Pact with the T West. In the next game, I had the vicious "combo" of Bojuka Bog and Sakura-Tribe Scout with bouncelands. I also had Spell Pierce and Negate. I had it all. It was a 1 land keep on the draw, but I had Ancient Stirrings. I lucked into Karoo, then Stirrings for another one. Then I had it all. Hmph. The guy was a bit frustrated. He said he didn't know how to play against such a deck. I told him that Fulminator Mage is a bit scary. He said he Fulminator Maged 10 times against Tron earlier. But he didn't know he could blow up a land with the untap on the stack too. He was fairly upset about it, but was not salty towards me. 2-0.
Finals vs. Mono Blue Tron. I waaanted to play this out, but I was 1 hour late picking up my son (eventually) from Daycare, so I had to bounce and luckily he was down to split. 0-0-3.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Copying foodchains here, got a post about a tournament!! Small 30 player event. Played this list: http://deck.tk/3bRx84r8
First of all, I know what you're thinking, and yes, its pretty old school! I have only tested Coalition Relic a little bit, but my gut was that it's a good card but not really something that I need. I was uncomfortable with adding more artifacts when people board in ancient grudges and co pretty agressively.
Here's my main thing with Coalition Relic tho... do you keep a hand of lands, relic + titan? It makes a turn 4, like azusa would. But, its significantly weaker, since those extra land drops can bring a lot of power later on. In addition, it doesnt block to gain life. If the answer to that is "no, I wouldn't keep", then you are looking for a card that lines up with others. At that point, it clashes with Azusa rather than helping it. I do think the card is good, and I could be completely wrong with my assessment. But, if I don't face blood moon, i think I like explore more. Neither are good in a race (mostly) and neither are particularly powerful stand-alone cards. Explore lets me play a trinket + amulet on T3, or lets me play tracker + land in post-board games etc. It makes it easier to recover from dead scouts, but re-draws in the late game (also, an extra land drop is sometimes better than extra mana in the late game, getting extra kabira triggers etc).
I have never loved trinket mage, but its useful. I don't REALLY want it in my opener, but it's passable with any other piece of ramp. As a result, I'm happiest when i run 1.
I've been less and less keen on Walking Ballista for a long time, and i took the plunge and dropped it for the hornet queen. That allowed me to play a 2nd Rec Sage in the board, which was a last minute decision when i saw 3 hardened scales & 4 blood moon decks in the room.
The event:
Round 1 vs UW Tron - Game 1 I am on the play with an amulet/azusa/titan hand. They go PowerPlant into Map, play T2 Mine pass. I rip a 2nd amulet and kill my opp (without the 2nd amulet, I was getting in for 8 plus grabbing GQ, so the game was won either way).
I board for G-tron, and then they lead on Colonnade! WHAAAA!
I try my best not to tap out because i have a spell pierce in hand. On my turn 4 end step, they gifts ungiven. I gamble and let it resolve, hoping they go for unburial rites. They do, and I spell pierce the flashback. I untap, play 2 amulets and kill me opp. Pretty nutty hands, but I was ahead in both games without the 2nd amulet.
1-0
Round 2 vs Hardened Scales - don't remember the details much. It was 1-1, and in the 3rd my opp had 2 damping sphere, 2 hardened scales, natures claim but NO threat at all. I spin my wheels for a bit, land a titan and go on to win. By the end of the game, my opp has had 8 lands in 6 turns. He checks the top of his deck and there's 4 more lands coming. Lucky! My maindeck Hornet Queen wins me game 1 FWIW.
2-0
Round 3 vs Bant Spirits - this was quite a close game, lots of back n forth. Game 1 my hornet queen does some work after a reflector mage pings my titan back. They can't beat the swarm and I get there after a misplay (I EE for 1 in their upkeep, which was correct, but they tap their 2 hierarchs for Coco, which I should have pact of negation-ed and just forgot to check my hand)! Game 2 they go T2 Queller T3 Coco into Queller + Lord, T4 Lord Lord kill me. Game 3 goes longer, and there's a turn where I have hornet queen and the crew, 2 snakes and a plant. My hand is Summoners Pact, Path & Dismember.
My Opp has 3 lords, queller with nothing under it, 2 Maelsoleum Wanders and 6 life. I tank for a while. I can't figure out if I want my pact to resolve or my removal, but realise I'm bating the wanderers.
I play Pact first, pay 4 for the first wanderer, and teh 2nd counters it. I Dismember & path 2 lords and swing with the queen + 4 tokens. I work out they ahve to block queen + token and take 3 + 2 from slayers, therefore wiping their board and leaving them on 1. Great, i'm pretty sure they have no outs. However, I had 2 snakes that I didn't attack with! So i missed lethal, but it luckily didnt matter.
3-0
Round 4 & 5 I can ID into top 8 so I do.
Quarters vs BG Rock - I played this guy at the quarters last time and lost, hes a really nice guy though and its always fun playing against him and his deck!
I'm on the draw and he goes fetch pass. I'm pretty sure this means he has Bob, because you don't keep a hand without discard against me unless u have the best possible t2 play. I lead on amulet, and indeed he plays bob. I start ramping and make a plant or 2, but the bob is staying in play. Eventually I land a titan, but it dies to assassin's trophy. No worries, I'd gone for t-west. Next turn, I rip a 2nd amulet and can do some tricks with bouncelands to make 2 titans and haste em. My opp has a long pause so i'm 99% sure i'm facing assassin's trophy here. So, with my titan triggers I go get bog to shrink a goyf that had got into play. My hunch is right, and my opp has given me 2 free lands. But, he kinda had to or the "other" titan woulda smacked him. He then untaps and plays a 3rd trophy on my titan. I have 8 mana to pay, but get to untap and get the 4th and get him dead!
Game 2 I board out 2 amulets and 2 scouts. I was a bit lost on if this was right or not, but I don't love amulet here, but having the single trinket mage makes me want enough targets, and there's only 1 EE and 0 Ballista, so that was the call I made. He doesn't play discard on 1, so again I expect bob on 2 - which happens. I play turn 1 amulet. Turn 2 i rip an amulet, sigh because now I don't have trinket mage targets and it's not a great card in the MU. Then I check my hand and kill him with double-titan. Oops. I apologise to my opponent, because we've had 4 really good games in our G1 and our previous outting, but it was my turn to win (we met at the same stage and even sat in the same seats)!
There's discussion about a split, I think "yeah why not", then realise that i've spent all day to play just 4 rounds, so decline.
Semi Final vs Burn - my opp is a really good player, and someone i've known a long time. At 1 point, my results were so bad against him that I just thought i was destined to never beat him. Glad my game has since improved from those early days!
Anyway, I mull to 6, accidently draw 7 and so i'm forced down to 5. Its ok, but the scout dies to a bolt and I never really have a chance.
My sideboarding was a little sketchy. I've never registered negate before, and I knew he was on bridge + deflecting palm, so thought i best bring it in. I had it in my opener and regretted boarding it in the entire game, spell pierce would have been great and negate wasn't. Anyway, I go T1 Plant, T2 Amulet + Bounceland + Scout. He attacks with a swiftspear and revelries my amulet. T3 I make another plant, and start blanking his swifty. I draw an azusa and make some land drops, and get something like a t4 titan. I dont remember the details but there's a bridge I have to navigate, a path and a lack of threats in my hand, all while my lifetotal is getting butchered. My titan fetches kabira + twest, and i know i'll need to draw a bounceland or a threat to get going again. I find amulet then vesuva, which lets me pick up t-west, grab a titan, grab pact for rec sage (targetting bridge) and attack with a titan that was already in play. Get there!
Game 3 goes kinda long but my opp floods out a bit. I use path on an eidolon on T2, and he has no other creatures, and the spell half of his deck is a lot less scary. Titan gets there again.
Final vs Hardened Scales - at this point, there's £60 for 2nd or £120 for first, so we split. We don't play it out, everyone had had enough and the shop shuts after the last game. lthough £90 doesn't sound a lot, its maybe the 3rd most I've ever won, since I don't play a lot of paper magic. I also went undefeated all day, which was good.
I ran hot today, like the T2 vs BG Rock when I was really expecting a grind-fest. I was lucky that my hardened scales opp flooded out, i was behind there. Burn and UW Tron felt pretty good though!
As a wrap up on individual cards:
2nd Rec Sage might have been unnecessary, but for that particular day, it was good.
Hornet Queen main was definitely better than ballista. Didn't miss it once!
Explore won me a game in Round 1, was decent vs BG Rock and got boarded out a lot. I was happy with it though, and still don't think it's worse than Coalition Relic. Damn my stubbornness!
3 Path 2 Dismember was also pretty decent. I may use my store credit for an EE though, and replace the 2nd Dismember. I do feel like I should run extra cards for the trinket mage to get when I board out 2 amulets!
Any questions, ask away
Nice job! It's always cool to see Amulet do well, especially a helpful player like yourself. The matches sound pretty insane.
I also really wanted to try the old list, but after seeing the new list do better locally, I decided to try it. I still am wavering on other decks. I probably will run Titanshift next week at a 1K, but I love Amulet! I'm assuming the play of Ancient Grudge going down a lot in Modern has to do with Coalition Relic being a good answer to Blood Moon, which it is if they don't have or draw Grudge to answer potentially multiple cards. The main board Hornet Queen is really interesting, as I had it myself in my friend's deck. I wouldn't do it myself, at least until I'm convinced. I feel somewhat "naked" without Walking Ballista. That card is just insane - it's a really busted card. It looked like your meta has quite a bit of Hardened Scales. My friend ran Scales for the longest time, including Day 2ing (and cashing twice) 3 times in a row with Hardened Scales at GPs. Still, he's not feeling it nowadays, choosing to run Whir Prison and UR Phoenix instead. Still, players that know the ins and outs of the deck can have amazing results, as GP Los Angeles proved.
BG Rock is a really interesting matchup. I would assume that Amulet does well vs. BGx, but Rock is a somewhat different animal. I am not sure that we are even favored in the matchup?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
@FoodChainGoblins - thanks for that, the matches were good!
BG Rock is pretty even. I lost 2-1 last time to this guy, and won 2-0 this time, though my online testing suggests it's maybe slightly worse than even - really will depend on the build. I have an Obstinate Baloth, Chameleon Colossus and Tireless Tracker, so they make a massive difference. Honestly, how the draws line up is pretty key. You can see Colossus in your opener and it's actually a bad thing, because it's likely to get tagged by a thoughtseize. But, if they don't have the thoughtseize, there's every chance you'll win off the back of that 1 card. It's really quite swingy and grindy, both decks can end up pretty hellbent and without much battlefield (which is where BG wants to be) but obviously we have some pretty stunning topdecks from that spot. My opponent is a really good player, and I'm pretty sure if we played 10 matches we'd win 5 each lol.
I cut Walking Ballista in my testing online (for a primal command), and the first thing I felt was "man, I wish I had more of a toolbox". What it really meant was "I need a pact target or a t-west target in the main". About 20minutes before the event, I had MD Ballista still, because there's basically 2 spots where I really want it.
1. Vs UW to fireball them
2. Vs Deaths Shadow when there's a strong chance they have stub, or when they've gone low on life.
The "clears out creatures" mode is rarely stunning, and it's "gut shot bob" mode is equally meh. Its flexibility is why people run it, but it's not really a bomb imo. Hornet Queen, on the other hand, will either be dreadful or great (in a similar way to Zacama, which I nearly ran)!!
On the day, Hornet Queen single-handedly won the Hardened Scale match and the Spirits match, because I stole 2 game 1s that I shouldn't have, and then went to 3. Ballista wouldn't have done the same. However, had I faced UW or Grixis Shadow, I'd probably be saying something different.
On the sideboarding front, I don't take notes but roughly...
Against Spirits I boarded in 3 Path, 2 Dismember and 2 rec Sage. Rec Sage tagging Aether Vial is useful, but also tagging damping sphere was the main concern. However, after Game 3, I find out my opp isn't running Damping Sphere and boarded out Aether Vial! I cut my Pact of Negation (pretty rubbish vs Cavern + Aether Vial, but ALSO find out there's no cavern in her budget manabase)! I cut 3 explore, Relic, Bog & Summoners Pact, since that card isn't great vs Spell Queller. If I knew my opps list, I'd not board in Rec Sage and keep in 2 explore.
Against BG Rock, it was something like:
-2 Scout, -2 Amulet, -1 Cavern (the least useful utility land), -1 Titan, -1 GPact, -1 UPact
+2 Dismember, +2 Path, +1 Tracker, +1 Chameleon, +1 Baloth, +1 Tect Edge,
I don't want too much ramp, since they're bad topdecks, but Scout is great vs Field of Ruin and Amulet can lead to some nutty games. Azusa and Explore are better than both off the top, so the full set of those stay. Cavern for Tect Edge is kinda irrelevant, but cutting 2 scouts makes me need less T1 Green, so felt ok with that. I keep 28 lands because they do attack your mana quite a bit. Cut a titan and a pact because the early game matters, you're boarding in more threats, and it reduces the effectiveness of Surgical. U-pact is a bad topdeck and bad in your opener, so I cut that. I didn't board in the 3rd path because I don't love ramping my opp, and because i'd rather play more threats than answers.
I haven't played modern in a while (sad ex-twin player that just hasn't found a deck that clicks with me) and thinking of picking this one up finally. That said, and having zero experience with piloting, is blast zone going to be included? I assume a 1-1 split with explosives if so. Also, has anyone tried out hydroid krasis, or is it too clunky?
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Mage seems slow at first, but when you take into account that it's a value piece more than a combo piece, things fall into place. Grabbing a second Amulet can be very useful, certainly, but I like Mage as a way to grab EE or Ballista when you need them while being a body you can just throw away.
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boros Garrison
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Forest
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Gruul Turf
1 Khalni Garden
1 Radiant Fountain
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Explore
1 Pact of Negation
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
1 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
Sideboard
2 Abrade
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Dismember
2 Firespout
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Spell Pierce
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Tectonic Edge
Round 1 vs GW hatebears - I didn't see a tonne of my opponents deck, but it was a GW Coco deck. Im not sure if it was valuetown or hatebears really. Anyway, my opp had only been playing mtg for a few weeks, but he played REALLY well. A few mis-sequencing things that could have benefitted me, but ended up not mattering. I spoke to my opp during the game to point out those things, since he likely wouldn't recognise those "mistakes" otherwise (since they didnt end up mattering). Overall though, the opponent played really well.
Anyway, Game 1 I mulled and kept a pretty medium hand, but it could make mana and had a ballista. I drew into a titan eventually, after the ballista really did some work. Their deck wasn't really capable of handling the squadron titan mode.
Game 2 went a bit longer, but again I drew ballista and htis time also EE. I played a bit like a control deck, and they could never get going. I landed the first titan, they coco-ed and hit aven mindcensor which was inconvenient, but that's all it was. Closed it out quite comfortably from there. These sort of MUs are a nightmare for my opps deck, so that all went well.
Round 2 vs Dredge - Didn't know I was against dredge, they kept 7 on the play, and I mulled to a bad 5. I kept 4 lands stirrings hoping to find amulet and be facing a durdly deck (1 of the lands was a boucneland, another was cavern). They lead on looting so i knew what was oging on, I went forest stirrings wiff. Turn 2 Cavern naming Merfolk having drawn a blank and scoop. The bluff is unlikely to work, but it certainly got my opponent thinking!
Game 2 is the reverse. I keep a good 7, they mull to 5. Their mull to 5 is much better than mine last time out, but a Turn 3 azusa into turn 4 titan on the play is enough this time around.
Game 3 I mull to 5(!!) and my opp mulls to 4(!!). Crazy really. I dont really remember how my opponents hand works out, but I go Turn 1 scout, turn 2 amulet, turn 3 titan. Having ripped the amulet and titan in consecutive turns. Luck on my side!
Round 3 vs Jund - I don't remember a lot of the details here, the games went very long, all 3. The first was pretty funny, because neither of us could get going. I didnt draw a titan for days, and they had a turn 2 bob. However, he wasn't hitting extra threats. He just kept pushing, bolting, and k-commanding all my ramp (amulet, scout, azusas all died), but I didn't really care. They were just being played because it's all i had. He landed a lili, but then eventually I drew a titan, and started the chain. I kept sandbanging lands to bait out thoughtseizes and to throw away to k-command/lili's (which worked perfectly). Eventually, we were in a spot where my opp was down to just 2 life from bob and thoughtseizes etc, with just bob in play. I had a plant and slayers + boros in play. I play vesuva copying the plant and just pass. He now has to answer both plants and dodge bob... bob reveals assassin's trophy. Terrible game, really funny. I lose Game 2 and win Game 3, but don't remember exactly how!
Round 4 vs Dredge - this was really funny. I was against a mate of mine, and another mate was sat next to me. I'm paired down, and we both know what we're on. My opp asks me to scoop him into the top 8, so i tell him to get lost. I said I'd take an ID if he fancied playing a win-and-in in Round 5, and explained that the MU is amulet heavy. He says no. I joke and say he can go on the play... he goes "really" and i say "if you win the dice roll". He does. I then proceed to play lose Game 1 on the draw, and its REALLY close. He keeps 1 land looting and plays looting. Discards 2 dredgers but takes a draw step... he's missing his second land, and rips it Turn 2. He then goes off, and has lethal on his turn 4. On my turn 3 though, I resolve a titan. I eat his GY and make a plant. Opp can now put me to 1, has a hand of loam, 3 lands, stinkweed (i knew all that info from his previous turns) and has shrinkhorn in play with 1 counter. He taps it and hits creeping chill for lethal. Ouch!
I offer the ID, which we all find pretty funny.
Game 2 is mental... i go at least 8-10 turns just using bog, bounceland and relic. I'm at least 15 cards deep but never find a titan. Eventually they piece together a kill, and I check the next 3 cards, still no threat. Wasn't to be!
Currently 3-1-0, and can ID into the top 8, which I do.
Quarter Finals vs BG Rock - Everyone knows what everyons playing at this point. The top 8 is 2-amuleters, Pheonix, Dredge, BG Rock, Burn, Storm and tron... a pretty good top 8 for amulet.
I win game 1 on the back of an early relic. My opp has 2 goyfs that can never grow, and no other pressure. I resolve something like a turn 6 titan and start chaining them together for what felt like a comfortable win.
Game 2 I don't remember particularly well, but there was a good bit of back n forth. My opp played an early bob, tracker and kalitas. I abrade both bob and tracker, and kalitas sticks. I eventually land a titan, but have to grab T-west + Khalni because I know about a lili. My opp pushes the plant and takes out the titan, and I never draw a 2nd threat.
Game 3. A lot of back n forth again here, but this time my opp goes field of ruin on simic growth and surgicals it. Its a nice line which I didn't expect. There's a key turn where my opp completely overcommits with Bob, Goyf, Goyf and Scooze. I have trinket mage in hand which he knows about, but only 6 mana (not enough to play mage, Ee and crack it - and i know about an assassin's trophy so dont want to expose an EE). So I decide to play explore first, which finds me a relic. I decide to play that over the trinket mage, since I'll have enough mana to mage into EE next turn, and relic shrinks the goyfs and scooze all in 1 go. I'm feeling pretty good about my spot. The Bob flips a thoughtseize which is the key moment, they take trinket mage and I'm unable to recover. In this game, we go to around turn 8-10 again, and I don't find a single titan. Although I had some removal, I only ever get to play a single baloth that matters all game (don't see tracker, baloth No.2, Chameleon Colossus, titans or pacts). Its worth noting that a t-west wouldnt have been relevant because of the surgical line my opp took.
I finish the day 3-2 with a quarterfinals loss. It was a good day out, but I'm dissapointed to lose to Dredge and BG Rock, mainly because I didn't draw a titan. In both, I was in a good spot and played fairly well. I wasn't punished for my lack of paths, and the top 8, outside of pheonix, was pretty favourable for me. The fellow amulet-er lost to burn in their quarters unfortunately.
And finally a discussion on the card choices:
1. I wanted to play Paths and a white manabase, but didn't have the paths. So, I went with a pretty close to stock red list (though those haven't really existed since KCI dissapeared). Anyway, I was worried about that, but never faced a situation where it mattered. I boarded in Abrade vs my R1 opp, and both BGx decks. I drew it 4 times, and on all 4 occasions the target I wanted to kill could be killed (including a T2 Goyf, a small tracker and bob). It had the upside of not ramping my opp. However, had I faced Izzet Pheonix (which won the event) or Grixis Shadow, i'd have been pretty sad about it all!
2. In 2 of my post-board games vs Jund and BG Rock, I had Chameleon Colossus in my opener, which sucked. However, both my opps were forced to Thoughtseize it away, which let an azusa resolve. All in all, a fine exchange.
3. The singleton Trinket Mage was again pretty decent but not ground-breaking. It ate discard spells, but rarely fetched up amulet. I'm still ok with 1 copy rather than 2.
4. Explore kept being medium like it always is. I liked it vs Jund and BG. I still consider this card best of the rest.
5. Spell Pierce got boarded in vs Dredge, but I only drew it once in the 4 SB games, and it was too late in the game. It tagged a Conflag for 4, but it wasn't really ground-breaking. It was, however, better than a negate. I wanted to swap 1 Pierce for a Negate before the event, and likely will when I pick 1 up (i didnt get to the store in time). However, Pierce is still great.
Not much else to say, the decklist is fairly stock, I didn't miss white this time but probably will next time! I am still pretty happy with 28 lands, 3 explore, 1 trinket mage + 1 other as my list, and even if I go to white, I'll stick with this approach. My flex slot will depend on what I expect to see. I consider Relic, Rec Sage, & Baloth all reasonable MD inclusions in that spot.
Wouldn't it have been better to fetch t-west and simic bounce land in order to fetch another titan same turn or turn after? That way they have limited options with their lili
I dunno. I'm thinking the line you took just gave you one out and didn't give you the option of chaining another threat, which is going to be the basis of winning that matchup if I'm understanding it correctly? (I might not be, to be sure. I haven't played the deck very much)
I'd like your opinion on this. What do you reckon?
The other thing to take into account is that i didn't have amulet, so it would have taken me 2 turns to recover with a t-west, which opens me up to inquisition + thoughtseize (i didnt have mana for transmute and titan in 1 go).
I can see a scenario where it is correct to run head first into the lili, and I hadnt honestly spent long considering that. Its almost second nature to grab plant when facing rock. I'll certainly think about that more next time! I think my line was correct this time, but doesn't mean it will always be.
This deck, needs the early consistency most, which is somewhat provided by the new mulligan, and in each of their own ways was previously provided by the flex creatures. Instead of seeing what flex spot is best for the new meta, I've been trying to see what is most effective in the new system.
Preliminary thoughts, imo, Trinket Mage has been the most useful as it has a much higher impact in the post board games and is either an amulet or can be shipped away in the opening hand when it is clunky. However, my meta is over saturated with humans/spirits/elves, resulting in me always wanting 2 EE activations per game.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)So we've talked about this a lot in the Amulet Titan discord, but the summary is basically that Relic is very good when people are trying to Blood Moon you and lets you sneak out turn 4 Titans when you wouldn't otherwise be able too, Trinket Mage can get you Amulets or Ballista or EE and is just a good multipurpose tool, and the Sanctuary and the Paths are mainly because there are a lot of creatures these days which Dismember and Abrade can't hit and Path is just the cleanest tool we have for answering them out of the board. Path can also be a little bit of Blood Moon insurance - Pathing your own dork in response to a Moon and then landing a Titan, for example.
For me, I'm down to 1 trinket mage. I don't particularly like it in my opener, unless it's alongside scout/amulet, at which point, it's just a nice-to-have, not a key piece. It's nice off teh top sometimes, giving you some interaction and/or some explosiveness.
The Path to Exiles are pretty good right now. Abrade is a lot worse without KCI, and there's not too many creature decks that care about firespout right now. That could easily change. I do still run a single dismember though, because it's significantly better than path against decks like storm and anything with bobs. Ramping people on Turn 2 isn't great. The main issue is that you can't realistically run 2+ dismembers, the life pain is rough. I could see a list with 4 golgari rot farms and dismember though. You get access to Bog for black mana too.
I do think we're close to a known best-list right now, but the SB will change when the format does, which will dictate whether or not you want Paths or sweepers, and it's pretty easy to get the mana to incorporate that.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)1) the core of our deck, and indeed 56 of the 60 cards main, are all already powerful - if you add a trinket mage or a coalition relic instead of some explores, its not going to be a big difference in the majority of games
2) you don't board in creature removal in every MU!
As a result, you can play what you want to an extent. I still think Path is well placed, but it doesn't mean its the best card every time you play. If you are playing a GP or something like that, then sure, you want every % you can get. But if you're playing even 6-7 rounds (e.g. Modern Challenge online), I'm pretty sure you can get away with whatever you want.
Coalition Relic is again just "well placed" right now. It fights blood moon pretty well.
My read is that it's got something to do with the tutor chain to get the card into your hand, right? Ballista requires tolaria and zacama works off pact. Pact can be fetched up with tolaria but tolaria needs to be drawn and can't be tutored up (except by titan). So I'm guessing that it's a form of security against late-game topdecking where any part of the tutor-chain eventually leads you to a zacama, whereas only specific parts of the tutor-chain lead you directly to a ballista.
Also, I'm (rightly or wrongly) assuming that the artifact/enchantment removal is a prime motivator for including zacama. Lifegain perhaps not so much although I can see it mattering occasionally.
Are people running the dinosaur?
I bought one the other day to test it out, but haven't got any games under my belt yet.
The issue isn't about "how easy is it to find". Generally speaking, the both fall into the camp of "at their best AFTER you resolve a titan". As a result, it's pretty irrelevant on how you get it. If you land a titan, you're using t-west to get hold of 1 of these 2 cards.
Here's where most people lie on the situation:
1. Zacama is at its best when you're already winning.
2. Walking Ballista is better in your opening hand - there's a non-zero amount of games where you go T2 Ballista for 1 kill your Bob / BOP / Delver or whatever might be about.
As a result, Ballista is seen as a removal spell with more flexibility, whereas Zacama is seen as winmore.
However... there will always be areas where Zacama is better and vise versa. As an example, it's pretty easy to see spots where a titan gets pathed, but a follow up Zacama just takes over the game (lets say, vs spirits). Ballista in that spot might kill 1 creature, not 3. There's also the "cornercase" spot where you pick up Ballista off Stirrings, which can't happen with Zacama. Its more about power vs flexibility though, and i think Ballista is better for a consistent gameplan.
Honestly, a lot of amulet players will tell you never to drop Ballista. I've always had a different opinion in that i think it's a very good tool to have, but it's not ground-breaking. I also like as much of my 60 to look good in my opening hand, and ballista (and zacama) don't. Ive been known to register Courser of Kruphix in Ballista's spot for this reason, but I nearly always end back up on Ballista. My point is though, that it's not crucial or irreplaceable. Play what you want
Nissa Vital Force.
A popular enough sideboard card in other green decks for attrition and grindy matchups but also quite synergistic with our deck.
Got legs? I'm feeling like, in a similar way to how infect has previously run a couple of copies of 'tiny' nissa for a second angle of attack to stretch removal or resources and switch up to a more pliable gameplan with less vulnerabilities after board, maybe we can operate under that rationale for including vital force in our sideboard.
As a group, I'm sure some of you may have even tried the card. GB rock decks are floating around in abundance right now so I could see maybe 1x in our 75 being a decent option
Round 1 vs. GB Rock. Yes, we played against our own decks. We actually both didn't know the deck list completely, so we each had to change our deck lists before playing. Luckily it was us, so no game losses. He discarded me, then Goyf put pressure. My Titan was too late. No Amulet. In the next game, I had a line that would have beaten him. I went for Prime Time with Summoner's Pact because I thought he would play Liliana of the Veil if I got Chameleon Colossus. It turns out he had no answer and it would have beaten him. Instead, he used Assassin's Trophy, creatures, and some other removal before drawing Lily 2 turns later to kill my 2nd Prime Time and get in for lethal. Rough start. 0-2.
Round 2 vs. Shape Anew. I know this is not a "real" deck, but I nearly lost the match. He does Disenchant in game 1 on my Amulet, then Blade Splicer into Shape Anew for Blightsteel Colossus. I attack him with a hasty Prime Time and he declines to block. This gives me a line to kill him next turn, as I have enough chumps to not take lethal 11 poison. But he untaps and plays the card he drew, Wing Splicer, giving his Blightsteel Colossus flying.
Round 3 vs. Elves. I groaned because I knew what he was playing and we talked for a cool one. He took things with stride, despite the absolute best hands I could have. Honestly there isn't much to say here. I nut drew him and killed him with double Amulet on turn 3 in both games. He just played some Elves and 3 Lords in 2 games, but turn 3s are turn 3s. 32 damage in the 2nd game, insane stuff. I don't think I've had that since Summer Bloom. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Humans. Very weird game. He put on the pressure and I made the right decision to power out an Azusa on turn 2 with Summoner's Pact. I blew up an EE on 2 and declined a chump block on a 6/6 Champ to fall to 6 life because if I drew a land next turn, I play the other land from hand and have a Hornet Queen with Slayer's Stronghold. I end up winning with that and Sunhome, Legion of the Fortress because of the tokens, which he finds Deputy of Detention nearly in time, but I get Khalni Heart going, he makes a big mistake twice attacking into first strike deathtouch with Mantis Riders, and I swing with Slayer's Stronghold and Sunhome for 8 damage when he's at 6 and I'm at 2 after his alpha strike. The next game shows where inexperience hurt many players here at this venue. It's kind of out in the boonies, which is one reason people didn't show up. He plays 2 Meddling Mages, naming Hornet Queen on both. He loses to a resolved Titan chain a few turns later when I put a bunch of chumps out and then drew Amulet in time to have Sunhome active on attacks. The crazy thing is I barely won despite many mistakes and a lack of knowledge of the Modern meta by my opponent. Nice guy; just not too experienced in Modern. No offense meant. He was really intrigued by "my" (my friend's deck) deck. 2-0.
Round 5 vs. Jund. ID into the top 8. 0-0-3.
Top 8 vs. Sultai Reclamation splash White. He Cryptic Commands a Karoo to make me unable to pay Pact. I had forgotten about that line, despite me assuming 1 of the 3 cards (after his draw step) would be Cryptic Command and he already had mana. Big mistake. One more turn later and I would have been safe. Huge punt. I had 3 mana after the bounce. Doh!
Top 4 vs. Living End. I made Kabira Crossroads twice to go to 24. He Living Ends before a Prime Time kills him when I transmute Tolaria West with double Amulet in play. He swung me for 20 with Violent Outburst next turn to 4 life, but I swing for a million after getting Summoner's Pact with the T West. In the next game, I had the vicious "combo" of Bojuka Bog and Sakura-Tribe Scout with bouncelands. I also had Spell Pierce and Negate. I had it all. It was a 1 land keep on the draw, but I had Ancient Stirrings. I lucked into Karoo, then Stirrings for another one. Then I had it all. Hmph. The guy was a bit frustrated. He said he didn't know how to play against such a deck. I told him that Fulminator Mage is a bit scary. He said he Fulminator Maged 10 times against Tron earlier.
Finals vs. Mono Blue Tron. I waaanted to play this out, but I was 1 hour late picking up my son (eventually) from Daycare, so I had to bounce and luckily he was down to split. 0-0-3.
Got 2nd place in a small tournament. Yay!
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)http://deck.tk/3bRx84r8
First of all, I know what you're thinking, and yes, its pretty old school! I have only tested Coalition Relic a little bit, but my gut was that it's a good card but not really something that I need. I was uncomfortable with adding more artifacts when people board in ancient grudges and co pretty agressively.
Here's my main thing with Coalition Relic tho... do you keep a hand of lands, relic + titan? It makes a turn 4, like azusa would. But, its significantly weaker, since those extra land drops can bring a lot of power later on. In addition, it doesnt block to gain life. If the answer to that is "no, I wouldn't keep", then you are looking for a card that lines up with others. At that point, it clashes with Azusa rather than helping it. I do think the card is good, and I could be completely wrong with my assessment. But, if I don't face blood moon, i think I like explore more. Neither are good in a race (mostly) and neither are particularly powerful stand-alone cards. Explore lets me play a trinket + amulet on T3, or lets me play tracker + land in post-board games etc. It makes it easier to recover from dead scouts, but re-draws in the late game (also, an extra land drop is sometimes better than extra mana in the late game, getting extra kabira triggers etc).
I have never loved trinket mage, but its useful. I don't REALLY want it in my opener, but it's passable with any other piece of ramp. As a result, I'm happiest when i run 1.
I've been less and less keen on Walking Ballista for a long time, and i took the plunge and dropped it for the hornet queen. That allowed me to play a 2nd Rec Sage in the board, which was a last minute decision when i saw 3 hardened scales & 4 blood moon decks in the room.
The event:
Round 1 vs UW Tron - Game 1 I am on the play with an amulet/azusa/titan hand. They go PowerPlant into Map, play T2 Mine pass. I rip a 2nd amulet and kill my opp (without the 2nd amulet, I was getting in for 8 plus grabbing GQ, so the game was won either way).
I board for G-tron, and then they lead on Colonnade! WHAAAA!
I try my best not to tap out because i have a spell pierce in hand. On my turn 4 end step, they gifts ungiven. I gamble and let it resolve, hoping they go for unburial rites. They do, and I spell pierce the flashback. I untap, play 2 amulets and kill me opp. Pretty nutty hands, but I was ahead in both games without the 2nd amulet.
1-0
Round 2 vs Hardened Scales - don't remember the details much. It was 1-1, and in the 3rd my opp had 2 damping sphere, 2 hardened scales, natures claim but NO threat at all. I spin my wheels for a bit, land a titan and go on to win. By the end of the game, my opp has had 8 lands in 6 turns. He checks the top of his deck and there's 4 more lands coming. Lucky! My maindeck Hornet Queen wins me game 1 FWIW.
2-0
Round 3 vs Bant Spirits - this was quite a close game, lots of back n forth. Game 1 my hornet queen does some work after a reflector mage pings my titan back. They can't beat the swarm and I get there after a misplay (I EE for 1 in their upkeep, which was correct, but they tap their 2 hierarchs for Coco, which I should have pact of negation-ed and just forgot to check my hand)! Game 2 they go T2 Queller T3 Coco into Queller + Lord, T4 Lord Lord kill me. Game 3 goes longer, and there's a turn where I have hornet queen and the crew, 2 snakes and a plant. My hand is Summoners Pact, Path & Dismember.
My Opp has 3 lords, queller with nothing under it, 2 Maelsoleum Wanders and 6 life. I tank for a while. I can't figure out if I want my pact to resolve or my removal, but realise I'm bating the wanderers.
I play Pact first, pay 4 for the first wanderer, and teh 2nd counters it. I Dismember & path 2 lords and swing with the queen + 4 tokens. I work out they ahve to block queen + token and take 3 + 2 from slayers, therefore wiping their board and leaving them on 1. Great, i'm pretty sure they have no outs. However, I had 2 snakes that I didn't attack with! So i missed lethal, but it luckily didnt matter.
3-0
Round 4 & 5 I can ID into top 8 so I do.
Quarters vs BG Rock - I played this guy at the quarters last time and lost, hes a really nice guy though and its always fun playing against him and his deck!
I'm on the draw and he goes fetch pass. I'm pretty sure this means he has Bob, because you don't keep a hand without discard against me unless u have the best possible t2 play. I lead on amulet, and indeed he plays bob. I start ramping and make a plant or 2, but the bob is staying in play. Eventually I land a titan, but it dies to assassin's trophy. No worries, I'd gone for t-west. Next turn, I rip a 2nd amulet and can do some tricks with bouncelands to make 2 titans and haste em. My opp has a long pause so i'm 99% sure i'm facing assassin's trophy here. So, with my titan triggers I go get bog to shrink a goyf that had got into play. My hunch is right, and my opp has given me 2 free lands. But, he kinda had to or the "other" titan woulda smacked him. He then untaps and plays a 3rd trophy on my titan. I have 8 mana to pay, but get to untap and get the 4th and get him dead!
Game 2 I board out 2 amulets and 2 scouts. I was a bit lost on if this was right or not, but I don't love amulet here, but having the single trinket mage makes me want enough targets, and there's only 1 EE and 0 Ballista, so that was the call I made. He doesn't play discard on 1, so again I expect bob on 2 - which happens. I play turn 1 amulet. Turn 2 i rip an amulet, sigh because now I don't have trinket mage targets and it's not a great card in the MU. Then I check my hand and kill him with double-titan. Oops. I apologise to my opponent, because we've had 4 really good games in our G1 and our previous outting, but it was my turn to win (we met at the same stage and even sat in the same seats)!
There's discussion about a split, I think "yeah why not", then realise that i've spent all day to play just 4 rounds, so decline.
Semi Final vs Burn - my opp is a really good player, and someone i've known a long time. At 1 point, my results were so bad against him that I just thought i was destined to never beat him. Glad my game has since improved from those early days!
Anyway, I mull to 6, accidently draw 7 and so i'm forced down to 5. Its ok, but the scout dies to a bolt and I never really have a chance.
My sideboarding was a little sketchy. I've never registered negate before, and I knew he was on bridge + deflecting palm, so thought i best bring it in. I had it in my opener and regretted boarding it in the entire game, spell pierce would have been great and negate wasn't. Anyway, I go T1 Plant, T2 Amulet + Bounceland + Scout. He attacks with a swiftspear and revelries my amulet. T3 I make another plant, and start blanking his swifty. I draw an azusa and make some land drops, and get something like a t4 titan. I dont remember the details but there's a bridge I have to navigate, a path and a lack of threats in my hand, all while my lifetotal is getting butchered. My titan fetches kabira + twest, and i know i'll need to draw a bounceland or a threat to get going again. I find amulet then vesuva, which lets me pick up t-west, grab a titan, grab pact for rec sage (targetting bridge) and attack with a titan that was already in play. Get there!
Game 3 goes kinda long but my opp floods out a bit. I use path on an eidolon on T2, and he has no other creatures, and the spell half of his deck is a lot less scary. Titan gets there again.
Final vs Hardened Scales - at this point, there's £60 for 2nd or £120 for first, so we split. We don't play it out, everyone had had enough and the shop shuts after the last game. lthough £90 doesn't sound a lot, its maybe the 3rd most I've ever won, since I don't play a lot of paper magic. I also went undefeated all day, which was good.
I ran hot today, like the T2 vs BG Rock when I was really expecting a grind-fest. I was lucky that my hardened scales opp flooded out, i was behind there. Burn and UW Tron felt pretty good though!
As a wrap up on individual cards:
2nd Rec Sage might have been unnecessary, but for that particular day, it was good.
Hornet Queen main was definitely better than ballista. Didn't miss it once!
Explore won me a game in Round 1, was decent vs BG Rock and got boarded out a lot. I was happy with it though, and still don't think it's worse than Coalition Relic. Damn my stubbornness!
3 Path 2 Dismember was also pretty decent. I may use my store credit for an EE though, and replace the 2nd Dismember. I do feel like I should run extra cards for the trinket mage to get when I board out 2 amulets!
Any questions, ask away
Congratulations!!!
I also really wanted to try the old list, but after seeing the new list do better locally, I decided to try it. I still am wavering on other decks. I probably will run Titanshift next week at a 1K, but I love Amulet! I'm assuming the play of Ancient Grudge going down a lot in Modern has to do with Coalition Relic being a good answer to Blood Moon, which it is if they don't have or draw Grudge to answer potentially multiple cards. The main board Hornet Queen is really interesting, as I had it myself in my friend's deck. I wouldn't do it myself, at least until I'm convinced. I feel somewhat "naked" without Walking Ballista. That card is just insane - it's a really busted card. It looked like your meta has quite a bit of Hardened Scales. My friend ran Scales for the longest time, including Day 2ing (and cashing twice) 3 times in a row with Hardened Scales at GPs. Still, he's not feeling it nowadays, choosing to run Whir Prison and UR Phoenix instead. Still, players that know the ins and outs of the deck can have amazing results, as GP Los Angeles proved.
BG Rock is a really interesting matchup. I would assume that Amulet does well vs. BGx, but Rock is a somewhat different animal. I am not sure that we are even favored in the matchup?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)BG Rock is pretty even. I lost 2-1 last time to this guy, and won 2-0 this time, though my online testing suggests it's maybe slightly worse than even - really will depend on the build. I have an Obstinate Baloth, Chameleon Colossus and Tireless Tracker, so they make a massive difference. Honestly, how the draws line up is pretty key. You can see Colossus in your opener and it's actually a bad thing, because it's likely to get tagged by a thoughtseize. But, if they don't have the thoughtseize, there's every chance you'll win off the back of that 1 card. It's really quite swingy and grindy, both decks can end up pretty hellbent and without much battlefield (which is where BG wants to be) but obviously we have some pretty stunning topdecks from that spot. My opponent is a really good player, and I'm pretty sure if we played 10 matches we'd win 5 each lol.
I cut Walking Ballista in my testing online (for a primal command), and the first thing I felt was "man, I wish I had more of a toolbox". What it really meant was "I need a pact target or a t-west target in the main". About 20minutes before the event, I had MD Ballista still, because there's basically 2 spots where I really want it.
1. Vs UW to fireball them
2. Vs Deaths Shadow when there's a strong chance they have stub, or when they've gone low on life.
The "clears out creatures" mode is rarely stunning, and it's "gut shot bob" mode is equally meh. Its flexibility is why people run it, but it's not really a bomb imo. Hornet Queen, on the other hand, will either be dreadful or great (in a similar way to Zacama, which I nearly ran)!!
On the day, Hornet Queen single-handedly won the Hardened Scale match and the Spirits match, because I stole 2 game 1s that I shouldn't have, and then went to 3. Ballista wouldn't have done the same. However, had I faced UW or Grixis Shadow, I'd probably be saying something different.
On the sideboarding front, I don't take notes but roughly...
Against Spirits I boarded in 3 Path, 2 Dismember and 2 rec Sage. Rec Sage tagging Aether Vial is useful, but also tagging damping sphere was the main concern. However, after Game 3, I find out my opp isn't running Damping Sphere and boarded out Aether Vial! I cut my Pact of Negation (pretty rubbish vs Cavern + Aether Vial, but ALSO find out there's no cavern in her budget manabase)! I cut 3 explore, Relic, Bog & Summoners Pact, since that card isn't great vs Spell Queller. If I knew my opps list, I'd not board in Rec Sage and keep in 2 explore.
Against BG Rock, it was something like:
-2 Scout, -2 Amulet, -1 Cavern (the least useful utility land), -1 Titan, -1 GPact, -1 UPact
+2 Dismember, +2 Path, +1 Tracker, +1 Chameleon, +1 Baloth, +1 Tect Edge,
I don't want too much ramp, since they're bad topdecks, but Scout is great vs Field of Ruin and Amulet can lead to some nutty games. Azusa and Explore are better than both off the top, so the full set of those stay. Cavern for Tect Edge is kinda irrelevant, but cutting 2 scouts makes me need less T1 Green, so felt ok with that. I keep 28 lands because they do attack your mana quite a bit. Cut a titan and a pact because the early game matters, you're boarding in more threats, and it reduces the effectiveness of Surgical. U-pact is a bad topdeck and bad in your opener, so I cut that. I didn't board in the 3rd path because I don't love ramping my opp, and because i'd rather play more threats than answers.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I'm not personally big on Blast Zone, but I'd need to see testing before I made a decision.