i think cards like dismember, all is dust, spatial contortion, warping wail all become necessary if this card sees significant play. lets see if horizons holds some toys for us.
I personally believe cheap spot removal is a sound choice in traditional builds, and I think Great Creator builds may be able to squeeze in 1-2 cheap spot removal spells (I just boot the Bond of Flourishing slots or go down to 3 Karn, the Great Creator). None of the ways to boot Collector Ouphe I can think of that Karn GC can tutor for can boot it fast enough (Culling Scales, Meteor Golem), and this guy swings under Ensnaring Bridge too often. Thank goodness the Ouphe dies quickly to Blast Zone, though.
Luckily, I don't think Collector Ouphe is maindeckable except maybe as a 1-of in toolbox decks, as it's a mere Grizzly Bears when its hoser does nothing, and its hoser does nothing against most decks.
Do you guys prefer to side graveyard hate in or leave them for Karn to fetch against decks where you'd want Tormod's Crypt and Grafdigger's cage
I'm main decking two Relic of progenitus, I'm just curious what you prefer.
Would you rather be able to hit a Tormod's Crypt before having Tron or Karn in play? or do would you rather find Karn (which there's a better chance of) so you can fetch them af few turns later?
Do you guys prefer to side graveyard hate in or leave them for Karn to fetch against decks where you'd want Tormod's Crypt and Grafdigger's cage
I'm main decking to Relic of progenitus, I'm just curious what you prefer.
Would you rather be able to hit a Tormod's Crypt before having Tron or Karn in play? or do would you rather find Karn (which there's a better chance of) so you can fetch them af few turns later?
If I'm running 2 relic maindeck and 1 grafdiggers cage and 1-2 surgical in the side then what I do is move all hate to the maindeck after game 1 except move 1 relic to the side to leave as a wish target. This is because cage is a better turn 1 play. I'm not using tormods crypt in my build but that I could see going maindeck or as a wish target post board.
Do you guys prefer to side graveyard hate in or leave them for Karn to fetch against decks where you'd want Tormod's Crypt and Grafdigger's cage
I'm main decking to Relic of progenitus, I'm just curious what you prefer.
Would you rather be able to hit a Tormod's Crypt before having Tron or Karn in play? or do would you rather find Karn (which there's a better chance of) so you can fetch them af few turns later?
If I'm running 2 relic maindeck and 1 grafdiggers cage and 1-2 surgical in the side then what I do is move all hate to the maindeck after game 1 except move 1 relic to the side to leave as a wish target. This is because cage is a better turn 1 play. I'm not using tormods crypt in my build but that I could see going maindeck or as a wish target post board.
Pretty cool idea about putting one Relic back in the sideboard. Didn't think about that, I'll give it a try next time I'm playing, thanks!
Hi guys, I need your expert opinions again, I have been using the tool box tron for 2 FNMs now this last 2 weeks and it has been performing great for me. I just have a dilemma on my sideboard if I should go down to 7 artifacts(currently running 9 right now). I don't miss thought-knot seer but I do miss surgical extraction and spacial contortion.
Week 1: 3-0
Round 1, 2-1 against burn
Round 2, 2-1 against bgx midrange
Round 3, 2-0 against ponza
Week 2: 3-1
Round 1, 0-2 against infect
Round 2, 2-0 against bgx midrange
Round 3, 2-1 against bant spirits
Round 4, 2-1 against mono blue tron
Now the dilemma, I feel that I want either 2 surgical extractions or 2 spacial contortions in my sideboard, first question, what to cut for them and why? and second, would 1 spacial contortion and 1 surgical extraction be good? deep down I feel I want 2 spacial contortions. Thank you everyone in advance!
So, with less than a month to go before MTGS is shut down, I wanted to take this opportunity to share what a pleasure and honor it has been to operate this primer for the past 6 years. They say “time flies when you’re having fun,” and it certainly does not feel like it was a full 6 years ago that I started updating the OP with all the neat Tron innovations that have taken place since July of 2013. We used to be a green red deck with Eye of Ugin, then a green red deck without Eye of Ugin, then a green white deck, then a green black deck, then a mono-green deck, and now finally a mono-green deck with an optional wishboard package.
For both those of you who are new, as well as those of you who have been around for years, I’ve had a lot of fun discussing all the changes to tron that have happened over this timeframe, and I’m sad when I realize that MTGS has reached the end of its life. I first registered my account here in 2006 (back in RAV/TSP Standard), and after 13 years I’m sad to see it go.
This doesn’t have to be the end though; k0no posted about it a couple pages back, but we have a Discord server that is going to serve as the new “base” for competitive tron discussion. Here’s a link if you need one: https://discord.gg/cjctgkg
This primer (and the posts associated with it) will be put in “read-only mode.” While we won’t be able to post or edit, you’ll still be able to read all the great content that’s been posted here. Also, MTGS staff have indicated that they’re working on a replacement forum, and I’ll definitely be looking to migrate the primer there (perhaps with a new KGC section) if and when that takes place.
So I hope that you’ll join me in discussing more great Tron content going forward. If not, it’s been a pleasure talking with you, and I wish you the best of luck going forward. Thanks for helping to make this thread and primer truly great!
Could Hexdrinker be any good/fun in this deck? could drop it and max level it as soon as it hits
Hexdrinker would probably be fun, but I suspect the only match-ups it helps fix are the match-ups where we get the Tron hosed, the control match-ups, and the ones where you need a ground blocker on Turns 1-2. We've generally found Thought-Knot Seer and Thragtusk to be more useful (they both also fix the first two sets of match-ups, but TKS helps fix combo match-ups, while Thrag gains life and therefore matters more against primarily evasion-filled aggro decks such as Affinity and Spirits), and if you're concerned about Turns 1-2 aggro, removal spells kill those dead as well as kill Collector Ouphe. With that being said, it does seem that Hexdrinker is an option in the Goyf sideboard slot.
Could Hexdrinker be any good/fun in this deck? could drop it and max level it as soon as it hits
Hexdrinker would probably be fun, but I suspect the only match-ups it helps fix are the match-ups where we get the Tron hosed, the control match-ups, and the ones where you need a ground blocker on Turns 1-2. We've generally found Thought-Knot Seer and Thragtusk to be more useful (they both also fix the first two sets of match-ups, but TKS helps fix combo match-ups, while Thrag gains life and therefore matters more against primarily evasion-filled aggro decks such as Affinity and Spirits), and if you're concerned about Turns 1-2 aggro, removal spells kill those dead as well as kill Collector Ouphe. With that being said, it does seem that Hexdrinker is an option in the Goyf sideboard slot.
One of my buddies said it may be a little too "fair" in Tron hehe and better suited in B/Gx midrange decks. I just think it's a very cool card and I really want it "to work" you know? hehe, but I may just save it for my midrange deck instead then.
Making space for a couple of Spatial Contortion is probably better since I'm sure we're going to encounter lots of Ouphes
Elvish Reclaimer is rather like repeatable Crop Rotation on 1/2 legs that cost G, although the tutored-out land ETB tapped, and the ability costing 2, t kinda blows. I guess we do get a more consistent Turn 3 Tron with this guy (Turn 1 Forest, him; Turn 2 Tron Piece 1, sac Forest for Tron Piece 2; Turn 3 Tron Piece 3; you may put a Chromatic Egg in this sequence on Turn 1 to substitute in a redundant Tron piece or a utility land in this sequence before Turn 3), but dying to Bolt before profiting is icky for a tutor.
I'm trying Golos, Tireless Pilgrim in the wishboard to deal with Stony Silence effects by tutoring for Blast Zone. Unfortunately, that means that the Stony Silence effect only blows up 2 turns after Golos ETB and can be prevented by opposing land destruction and Blood Moon, but Meteor Golem is too expensive, and Culling Scales cannot deal with opposing Karn, the Great Creator. Even worse, Golos kinda demands going up to 20 lands for Cascading Cataracts to enable its activated ability, and the average 3-card pull Gx Tron offers is rather meh. Golos also cannot substitute for Crucible of Worlds because decks like BG Midrange tend to nail more than one Tron piece per game. I've swapped out a Wurmcoil for a maindeck Golos to try to make Cascading Cataracts more useful (I might regret this later, since Wurmcoil is that much better against aggro). Still, I've found that Golos is fairly capable of winning games (including against opposing Karn GC), but at a hefty maindeck price.
I might as well put forward a suggestion: While Hogaak is running around, playing a copy of the original Kozilek, Ulamog, or Emrakul may be worth running (probably in place of one of the new Ulamogs). If it's in your deck, it shuts down their mill plan quite thoroughly--and that's if they even know it's in your deck, they might have no idea and will just happily throw their library into their graveyard, start milling you, and then realize when the Eldrazi Titan gets tossed in that they've lost. Personally I think Kozilek is the best for this purpose even though his effects aren't as impressive, he's the cheapest of all of them.
Another advantage of Kozilek: Do you ever have the situation arise when you have the necessary pieces for the Karn/Lattice lock, but your opponent has a Karn or a Stony Silence? Well, as long as they don't have any creatures they can attack with in play, a Kozilek anywhere in your deck will guarantee your win regardless of who has more cards in deck, because you can discard him to shuffle the graveyard back and they'll inevitably run out of cards. Even if they Surgical Kozilek in response to the trigger, everyone else still shuffles back in.
Other than the clunky 4 mana cost, the new Mystic Forge card looks insane!!!
Tested it yesterday in my Mono-G Tron build. I think I still like Golos, Tireless Pilgrim better. You get to flip 3-card sets like land-Stirrings-Scrying or sets with at least one fatty too often, and Mystic Forge is so vulnerable to our own Oblivion Stone (and hosed by our own Grafdigger's Cage), yet doesn't produce CA fast enough (especially compared to Golos). I didn't get to chain Chromatic Eggs or Relics often enough with Mystic Forge. In games where Golos gets booted, possibly by me, at least it comes with a nasty parting gift by tutoring for a land (which at least enables the next Golos). While Golos is hosed by Stony Silence effects and even Pithing Needle effects, at least you can opt to tutor for Blast Zone with it (or a Tron land if you don't have enough mana anyway).
On a ROE Eldrazi maindeck:
That was hilarious tech I saw on MTGO, but I'm not completely sure I can get behind that. I'd think Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre would be the best in that slot because of its resilience to removal and its cheap cost, even if it's redundant with Newlamog.
How can we activate Golos though? He's a 5 colour dude
I go up to 20 lands in Golos, Tireless Pilgrim builds; the 20th land is Cascading Cataracts, which provides the mana necessary to activate Golos when combined with the Tron (or 7 other mana). Luckily for Golos, Cascading Cataracts is indestructible!
That sounds like a pretty fun idea. Plenty of cards to look up the Cascading Cataracts with and can potentially drop three threats with one activation.
How many Golos would you run. Just one?
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Warping Wail notably cannot boot Collector Ouphe.
I personally believe cheap spot removal is a sound choice in traditional builds, and I think Great Creator builds may be able to squeeze in 1-2 cheap spot removal spells (I just boot the Bond of Flourishing slots or go down to 3 Karn, the Great Creator). None of the ways to boot Collector Ouphe I can think of that Karn GC can tutor for can boot it fast enough (Culling Scales, Meteor Golem), and this guy swings under Ensnaring Bridge too often. Thank goodness the Ouphe dies quickly to Blast Zone, though.
Luckily, I don't think Collector Ouphe is maindeckable except maybe as a 1-of in toolbox decks, as it's a mere Grizzly Bears when its hoser does nothing, and its hoser does nothing against most decks.
Do you guys prefer to side graveyard hate in or leave them for Karn to fetch against decks where you'd want Tormod's Crypt and Grafdigger's cage
I'm main decking two Relic of progenitus, I'm just curious what you prefer.
Would you rather be able to hit a Tormod's Crypt before having Tron or Karn in play? or do would you rather find Karn (which there's a better chance of) so you can fetch them af few turns later?
If I'm running 2 relic maindeck and 1 grafdiggers cage and 1-2 surgical in the side then what I do is move all hate to the maindeck after game 1 except move 1 relic to the side to leave as a wish target. This is because cage is a better turn 1 play. I'm not using tormods crypt in my build but that I could see going maindeck or as a wish target post board.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Pretty cool idea about putting one Relic back in the sideboard. Didn't think about that, I'll give it a try next time I'm playing, thanks!
https://discordapp.com/invite/xzd6Hd4
Plenty of live discussion for all Tron variants over there.
Week 1: 3-0
Round 1, 2-1 against burn
Round 2, 2-1 against bgx midrange
Round 3, 2-0 against ponza
Week 2: 3-1
Round 1, 0-2 against infect
Round 2, 2-0 against bgx midrange
Round 3, 2-1 against bant spirits
Round 4, 2-1 against mono blue tron
My list:
Creatures: 6
x1 Ulamog
x3 Wurmcoil
x1 Ballista
x1 World breaker
Planeswalkers: 10
x4 Karn, Liberated
x4 Karn, the Great Creator
x2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Spells and Artifacts: 25
x4 Sylvan Scrying
x4 Ancient Stirrings
x4 Chromatic Sphere
x4 Chromatic Star
x4 Expedition map
x3 Oblivion Stone
x2 Relic of Progenitus
lands: 19
x4 urza's Tower
x4 urza's Power Plant
x4 urza's Mine
x4 Forest
x1 Ghost Quarter
x1 Sanctum of Ugin
x1 Blast Zone
Sideboard:
x3 Thragtusk
x3 Nature's Claim
x1 Grafdiggers Cage
x1 Trinisphere
x1 Ensnaring Bridge
x1 Mycosynth Lattice
x1 Oblivion Stone
x1 Walking Ballista
x1 Crucible of Worlds
x1 Torpor Orb
x1 Liquimetal Coating
Now the dilemma, I feel that I want either 2 surgical extractions or 2 spacial contortions in my sideboard, first question, what to cut for them and why? and second, would 1 spacial contortion and 1 surgical extraction be good? deep down I feel I want 2 spacial contortions. Thank you everyone in advance!
My head's been in my armpit it has.
For both those of you who are new, as well as those of you who have been around for years, I’ve had a lot of fun discussing all the changes to tron that have happened over this timeframe, and I’m sad when I realize that MTGS has reached the end of its life. I first registered my account here in 2006 (back in RAV/TSP Standard), and after 13 years I’m sad to see it go.
This doesn’t have to be the end though; k0no posted about it a couple pages back, but we have a Discord server that is going to serve as the new “base” for competitive tron discussion. Here’s a link if you need one: https://discord.gg/cjctgkg
This primer (and the posts associated with it) will be put in “read-only mode.” While we won’t be able to post or edit, you’ll still be able to read all the great content that’s been posted here. Also, MTGS staff have indicated that they’re working on a replacement forum, and I’ll definitely be looking to migrate the primer there (perhaps with a new KGC section) if and when that takes place.
So I hope that you’ll join me in discussing more great Tron content going forward. If not, it’s been a pleasure talking with you, and I wish you the best of luck going forward. Thanks for helping to make this thread and primer truly great!
Sincerely,
Slivortal
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Hexdrinker would probably be fun, but I suspect the only match-ups it helps fix are the match-ups where we get the Tron hosed, the control match-ups, and the ones where you need a ground blocker on Turns 1-2. We've generally found Thought-Knot Seer and Thragtusk to be more useful (they both also fix the first two sets of match-ups, but TKS helps fix combo match-ups, while Thrag gains life and therefore matters more against primarily evasion-filled aggro decks such as Affinity and Spirits), and if you're concerned about Turns 1-2 aggro, removal spells kill those dead as well as kill Collector Ouphe. With that being said, it does seem that Hexdrinker is an option in the Goyf sideboard slot.
One of my buddies said it may be a little too "fair" in Tron hehe and better suited in B/Gx midrange decks. I just think it's a very cool card and I really want it "to work" you know? hehe, but I may just save it for my midrange deck instead then.
Making space for a couple of Spatial Contortion is probably better since I'm sure we're going to encounter lots of Ouphes
Elvish Reclaimer is rather like repeatable Crop Rotation on 1/2 legs that cost G, although the tutored-out land ETB tapped, and the ability costing 2, t kinda blows. I guess we do get a more consistent Turn 3 Tron with this guy (Turn 1 Forest, him; Turn 2 Tron Piece 1, sac Forest for Tron Piece 2; Turn 3 Tron Piece 3; you may put a Chromatic Egg in this sequence on Turn 1 to substitute in a redundant Tron piece or a utility land in this sequence before Turn 3), but dying to Bolt before profiting is icky for a tutor.
I'm trying Golos, Tireless Pilgrim in the wishboard to deal with Stony Silence effects by tutoring for Blast Zone. Unfortunately, that means that the Stony Silence effect only blows up 2 turns after Golos ETB and can be prevented by opposing land destruction and Blood Moon, but Meteor Golem is too expensive, and Culling Scales cannot deal with opposing Karn, the Great Creator. Even worse, Golos kinda demands going up to 20 lands for Cascading Cataracts to enable its activated ability, and the average 3-card pull Gx Tron offers is rather meh. Golos also cannot substitute for Crucible of Worlds because decks like BG Midrange tend to nail more than one Tron piece per game. I've swapped out a Wurmcoil for a maindeck Golos to try to make Cascading Cataracts more useful (I might regret this later, since Wurmcoil is that much better against aggro). Still, I've found that Golos is fairly capable of winning games (including against opposing Karn GC), but at a hefty maindeck price.
Another advantage of Kozilek: Do you ever have the situation arise when you have the necessary pieces for the Karn/Lattice lock, but your opponent has a Karn or a Stony Silence? Well, as long as they don't have any creatures they can attack with in play, a Kozilek anywhere in your deck will guarantee your win regardless of who has more cards in deck, because you can discard him to shuffle the graveyard back and they'll inevitably run out of cards. Even if they Surgical Kozilek in response to the trigger, everyone else still shuffles back in.
Tested it yesterday in my Mono-G Tron build. I think I still like Golos, Tireless Pilgrim better. You get to flip 3-card sets like land-Stirrings-Scrying or sets with at least one fatty too often, and Mystic Forge is so vulnerable to our own Oblivion Stone (and hosed by our own Grafdigger's Cage), yet doesn't produce CA fast enough (especially compared to Golos). I didn't get to chain Chromatic Eggs or Relics often enough with Mystic Forge. In games where Golos gets booted, possibly by me, at least it comes with a nasty parting gift by tutoring for a land (which at least enables the next Golos). While Golos is hosed by Stony Silence effects and even Pithing Needle effects, at least you can opt to tutor for Blast Zone with it (or a Tron land if you don't have enough mana anyway).
On a ROE Eldrazi maindeck:
That was hilarious tech I saw on MTGO, but I'm not completely sure I can get behind that. I'd think Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre would be the best in that slot because of its resilience to removal and its cheap cost, even if it's redundant with Newlamog.
I go up to 20 lands in Golos, Tireless Pilgrim builds; the 20th land is Cascading Cataracts, which provides the mana necessary to activate Golos when combined with the Tron (or 7 other mana). Luckily for Golos, Cascading Cataracts is indestructible!
How many Golos would you run. Just one?