They still have titans to beat face with so its not quite a beat down.
True, but without Valakut, Titan is just a 6/6 and we should have no problem dealing with it. I used to run 4x Leyline of the Void maindeck in Tron (this was years ago, back when Storm and Valakut were huge) and as long as I had a Leyline in play I really wasn't afraid at all of their Primeval Titans.
Also, regarding the larger conversation about Witchbane Orb against TitanShift (and other decks that win like that), do it. It shuts down one of their primary win conditions. It's not good enough for the mainboard, but for a wishboard, making a TitanShift Deck actually attack you is a serious problem for the TitanShift player. That deck isn't designed to be aggro, so forcing it to be one gives you a serious advantage and more time to win the game.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
It seems to me that Wish Tron improves on most game one percentages slightly, with the biggest benefit vs. unfair decks and opposing artifact decks, which outraces Gx Tron. In return, we're giving up Surgical Extraction, spot removal, and some variety of threats vs. Ux Control postboard. I suspect there will be metagames where one is favored over the other, but both builds are probably viable.
Going to try testing this build. I ultimately couldn't agree on which way to lean in the mainboard, so I kept 2 each of Ulamog, Ballista, Relic, and O-Stone; am counting on KtGC to shore up the latter two with effectively extra copies so I can go with more threats vs. Ux Control. KtGC is bad vs. Control, right?
My next wish target if there is room would be Witchbane Orb.
4 Forest
1 Blast Zone
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
Tron plays 8 green cards, this Force is unplayable here. Force of Will demands ~20 cards to be consistent, and you can often pitch low impact cards. Scrying and Stirrings are usually key in a a game and can't be sacrificed that easily. Nature's Claim is already good enough.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Tron plays 8 green cards, this Force is unplayable here. Force of Will demands ~20 cards to be consistent, and you can often pitch low impact cards. Scrying and Stirrings are usually key in a a game and can't be sacrificed that easily. Nature's Claim is already good enough.
The Force of Will blue card lower limit I conventionally see is 16 cards, including 4 FoW.
Yeah, we do NOT have enough green cards or sources of green mana for Force of Vigor, though.
Well, played a league with Creator Tron again, went 4-1 and made some cuts before the league. I dropped Blast Zone, yes I know. WHY? The 5th forest is too important imo. That 5th forest allows the deck to play past all the mana disruption. I loved seeing consistent ways of unlocking tron without needing to have a sphere/star. I also added the 4th Nature's Claim back to the board. There isn't an "If" they bring in a hate card, it's when they do, I want to have access to 4 claims now that our SB has narrowed.
Rd 1) 2-1 Win Vs Hollow One
Rd 2) 2-1 Win Vs Izzet Phoenix
Rd 3) 2-1 Win Vs Burn (G3 Natural Tron into Wurmcoil Yay!)
Rd 4) 1-2 Loss Vs Deadhorde Arcanist deck, I mulled to 4 in G3, so...
Rd 5) 2-1 Win Vs Neoform Combo, I dunno, I t3 ballista, he kept a bad 6, and when the rider came down I ballista'd it. I'm not sure if this player knew what he/she was doing but I was happy to take the win after getting 1'd in g1.
I like the single Blast Zone, it has done work for me
As for Force of Vigor, I am interested. one of our green cards is a big ask, but it's not for the games where one of them is what we need. it's for the games like the Affinity match i lost tonight, where we stumble even a little bit and they have too much going and our only chance is to blow a big hole in what they are doing and we don't have the resources for the other options. I beat a prison deck in a very long and challenging match tonight, if I had been able to blow up two artifacts with one card and just give up a copy of Scrying after I was already flooded, that would have been really nice instead of using Karn activations. this is not for when we have other outs. Legacy players don't use FoW proper when Negate will get the job done, this is for the games where we expect that we will have two solid targets, because if there are two things on the field in Modern that you wouldn't feel like it was a waste to Claim, you're in a rough spot.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I like the single Blast Zone, it has done work for me
As for Force of Vigor, I am interested. one of our green cards is a big ask, but it's not for the games where one of them is what we need. it's for the games like the Affinity match i lost tonight, where we stumble even a little bit and they have too much going and our only chance is to blow a big hole in what they are doing and we don't have the resources for the other options. I beat a prison deck in a very long and challenging match tonight, if I had been able to blow up two artifacts with one card and just give up a copy of Scrying after I was already flooded, that would have been really nice instead of using Karn activations. this is not for when we have other outs. Legacy players don't use FoW proper when Negate will get the job done, this is for the games where we expect that we will have two solid targets, because if there are two things on the field in Modern that you wouldn't feel like it was a waste to Claim, you're in a rough spot.
If you’re comparing this new Force to Force in Legacy, it’s worth pointing out that the vast majority of Legacy players will suggest running 20-24 blue cards to support Force, and even the most “greedy” proponents will suggest running a bare minimum of 16.
By comparison, we run 8. While I agree that the logic of “We don’t want to pitch our green cards” is somewhat flawed, our odds of having a green card to pitch is really small.
This is my first deck I'm going to use for modern FNM and wanted a little advice from you guys on a Green tron deck without big Karn and Ugin. I've only been playing standard FNM at my local game store, so I don't really have a clue about the modern meta there, but anyways, here's my list currently.
Obviously making space for 2-3 Oblivion Stone in the main deck, I just haven't received them yet since Danish postal service is utter *****.
I'm thinking about doing one All is dust and two Oblivion Stone in the main and then having one more in the sideboard for Karn to fetch.
The questions is just, how many Walking Ballista, Thought-Knot Seer and Endbringer do I take out to make room for them? (Obviously also taking the Dismember out. It was just pseudo placeholders while testing it out a little. Using it in the colourless build)
I'm also not running Sanctum of Ugin since I don't have enough payoff cards. I also have a spot in the sideboard reserved for a Grafdigger's cage but I got a wrong card sent, so I'm still waiting for it.
I'm thinking of adding one World Breaker in the side or main, but I'm thinking I'd be better off using other cards since I'm not running Sanctum.
Is it worth having two Thragtusk in the side these days?
EDIT:
Got the last couple of cards today (except the Grafdigger's Cage and tweaked my list a little.
I swapped the two Endbringers out for a World Breaker and kept the 4th Walking Ballista in as the additional threat. I took out the 4th Nature's Claim for an Oblivion Stone in the sideboard. I know you guys were talking about adding the 4th, so maybe if I take out a Thragtusk for the 4th?
Also thinking about adding Ugin, the ineffable if I can get my hands on one before the tournament instead of one Ballista.
Does anybody know why there are lists playing Torpor Orb in the wishboard?
It makes sense against the soon to come Thopter-Sword combo but right now i can only think of Humans and their ETB triggers which seems... really narrow to use a SB slot for.
Does anybody know why there are lists playing Torpor Orb in the wishboard?
It makes sense against the soon to come Thopter-Sword combo but right now i can only think of Humans and their ETB triggers which seems... really narrow to use a SB slot for.
Torpor Orb randomly hoses a lot of good things. Besides humans, it kneecaps Primeval Titan, giving us a chance to not be blown out by Amulet Titan or Titanshift. It also throws off Prized Amalgam and Snapcaster Mages. To be honest though, making sure you don't just die or get outvalued forever to Primeval Titan justifies the wish slot.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Went 2-3 at FNM. I know I'm a noob in modern and with this deck, but I had a great time. I did way better than I imagined to be honest hehe. I thought I was going to get ****ed over every match since it was my first modern FNM.
The games I lost were pretty close too. I mostly lost either having to mull down to 4 and being umlucky with my draws or some missplays due to me not having played it much (this was the first time I actually played the deck. My normal play group have been too buys for cards lately)
Won against Burn and a weird R/U deck that was basically built to take out tron (steal lands and stuff like that). Lost to Storm, Esper Control and Scapeshift/Titan/Valakut or whatever that deck is called.
Left feeling pretty confident in the deck even though it doesn't have the big bombs like Karn Liberated and Big Ugin and had a lot of fun. Glad I've made the switch to Modern.
My favourite card was getting both my Blast Zones against the esper deck. It was amazing against control. Avoided counterspells and took out Teferi.
Vs. Whir prison 2-0
Felt strong. +1 Karn on his chalice. Tectonic Edge felt strong with crucible. Main deck Stony Silence effect won over his main deck Damping Sphere. Blast Zone was a real threat for him here as I threatened to wipe his pithing needles.
Vs. Humans 2-1
Tron things. Disabled Ugin's -X with my own Lattice...
Gotta watch that boys.
Vs. Ponza 0-2
Lost horribly. Not even close. I never made it to 3 mana.
last night went to my first fnm with this version,i finish 1-3 ,a very salty day.
Game 1: 0-2 counters company
The fact that we dont have more spot removal was hard.I get tron and karm tgc but wasnt enought.
Game 2 : 0-2 esper control
Horribly match,i'm still cant belive it.He field of ruin all my lands,counter all my spells,and kill me with kaya's ultimate both games.sad...
Game 3 2-0 Grixis Shadow.
G1 turn 3 Wurmcoil was enought. Game 2 was a little more complicated but Blast zone saved the game removing 2 shadows.
Game 3 0-2 Infect.
What to say,still the worst matchup immaginable.
I like the deck,but im gonna made some changea,i want dismember back on mainboard.
hello every one , recently played with the great creator build in a tournament at my local store
i reached top 8, lost by a grixis delver due to he was using boom/bast as away to defeat tron ,also i drew poorly
i want 4-0-1 at the 5 round swings
2-0 vs deaths shadow(big karn and Ugin were enough)
2-0 vs Bg midrange ( even though i drew like crazy big karn and ugin sealed the deal)
2-0 vs Great Creator tron mirror (game 1 got advantage with my early quarter and turn 5 ulamog end the game, game 2 made al lock out of new karn-crusible-quarter)
2-1 vs Spirits ( was though game drew poorly and didnt expect lavinia , my body was ready for damping shpere , but at the game 2 cards had shine blast zone and ugin)
ID with an other mirror
my conclusion from this event is that most of the matches not even all i didnt need the new karn to win my games i didnt even drew him expect from game 2 mirror at round 3
also it was really hard for me to sideboard in the match ups because of the sb being full of one off random artifacts
i even need a dismember against spirits where i just couldnt do a thing against lavinia
i might go back to the traditional build where my sideboard is more wide in the meta and more easy for me as i know better to sb with
last thing at my fnm's i didnt feel fun playing the new karn and make a 2 card combo with lattice , i dont know i might not be that kind of guy but i couldnt feel it that new karn fits in the deck from my point of view
thats all would like to hear your thoughts too peace !!
hello every one , recently played with the great creator build in a tournament at my local store
i reached top 8, lost by a grixis delver due to he was using boom/bast as away to defeat tron ,also i drew poorly
i want 4-0-1 at the 5 round swings
2-0 vs deaths shadow(big karn and Ugin were enough)
2-0 vs Bg midrange ( even though i drew like crazy big karn and ugin sealed the deal)
2-0 vs Great Creator tron mirror (game 1 got advantage with my early quarter and turn 5 ulamog end the game, game 2 made al lock out of new karn-crusible-quarter)
2-1 vs Spirits ( was though game drew poorly and didnt expect lavinia , my body was ready for damping shpere , but at the game 2 cards had shine blast zone and ugin)
ID with an other mirror
my conclusion from this event is that most of the matches not even all i didnt need the new karn to win my games i didnt even drew him expect from game 2 mirror at round 3
also it was really hard for me to sideboard in the match ups because of the sb being full of one off random artifacts
i even need a dismember against spirits where i just couldnt do a thing against lavinia
i might go back to the traditional build where my sideboard is more wide in the meta and more easy for me as i know better to sb with
last thing at my fnm's i didnt feel fun playing the new karn and make a 2 card combo with lattice , i dont know i might not be that kind of guy but i couldnt feel it that new karn fits in the deck from my point of view
thats all would like to hear your thoughts too peace !!
I like the way you think. Traditional is the better version of the deck - it's actually amazing to me how much traction the Great Creator builds have gained, though I certainly don't blame people for trying it out.
well, with the new hate bear coming, I do think KGC version is going to have to be put on hold. We will need interaction in the form of spot removal and hey that's fine. I've been leaning towards KGC being better in E Tron, but that's a different topic.
The SB is better in traditional and it may be that going forward we will need to have access to that again.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Between the new Ouphe and a likely rise in popularity of Infect and Company decks, having access to Dismember looks like it will become increasingly important for any version of Green Tron.
i think cards like dismember, all is dust, spatial contortion, warping wail all become necessary if this card sees significant play. lets see if horizons holds some toys for us.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
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Do you mean Leyline of Sanctity? Because while Leyline of the Void does hit storm hard, it's not really good against Titanshift.
Also, regarding the larger conversation about Witchbane Orb against TitanShift (and other decks that win like that), do it. It shuts down one of their primary win conditions. It's not good enough for the mainboard, but for a wishboard, making a TitanShift Deck actually attack you is a serious problem for the TitanShift player. That deck isn't designed to be aggro, so forcing it to be one gives you a serious advantage and more time to win the game.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Going to try testing this build. I ultimately couldn't agree on which way to lean in the mainboard, so I kept 2 each of Ulamog, Ballista, Relic, and O-Stone; am counting on KtGC to shore up the latter two with effectively extra copies so I can go with more threats vs. Ux Control. KtGC is bad vs. Control, right?
My next wish target if there is room would be Witchbane Orb.
4 Forest
1 Blast Zone
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Walking Ballista
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Oblivion Stone
SB
3 Thragtusk
3 Nature's Claim
1 Spellskite
1 Walking Ballista
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
1 Mycosynth Lattice
EDIT: -1 Crucible, +1 Ballista SB
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
The Force of Will blue card lower limit I conventionally see is 16 cards, including 4 FoW.
Yeah, we do NOT have enough green cards or sources of green mana for Force of Vigor, though.
Rd 1) 2-1 Win Vs Hollow One
Rd 2) 2-1 Win Vs Izzet Phoenix
Rd 3) 2-1 Win Vs Burn (G3 Natural Tron into Wurmcoil Yay!)
Rd 4) 1-2 Loss Vs Deadhorde Arcanist deck, I mulled to 4 in G3, so...
Rd 5) 2-1 Win Vs Neoform Combo, I dunno, I t3 ballista, he kept a bad 6, and when the rider came down I ballista'd it. I'm not sure if this player knew what he/she was doing but I was happy to take the win after getting 1'd in g1.
List (I'll be playing this for my upcoming IQ):
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers (10)
4 Karn Liberated
4 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts: (17)
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Expedition Map
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
Lands: (19)
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
5 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Nature's Claim
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Defense Grid
1 Spellskite
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
As for Force of Vigor, I am interested. one of our green cards is a big ask, but it's not for the games where one of them is what we need. it's for the games like the Affinity match i lost tonight, where we stumble even a little bit and they have too much going and our only chance is to blow a big hole in what they are doing and we don't have the resources for the other options. I beat a prison deck in a very long and challenging match tonight, if I had been able to blow up two artifacts with one card and just give up a copy of Scrying after I was already flooded, that would have been really nice instead of using Karn activations. this is not for when we have other outs. Legacy players don't use FoW proper when Negate will get the job done, this is for the games where we expect that we will have two solid targets, because if there are two things on the field in Modern that you wouldn't feel like it was a waste to Claim, you're in a rough spot.
By comparison, we run 8. While I agree that the logic of “We don’t want to pitch our green cards” is somewhat flawed, our odds of having a green card to pitch is really small.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
This is my first deck I'm going to use for modern FNM and wanted a little advice from you guys on a Green tron deck without big Karn and Ugin. I've only been playing standard FNM at my local game store, so I don't really have a clue about the modern meta there, but anyways, here's my list currently.
Obviously making space for 2-3 Oblivion Stone in the main deck, I just haven't received them yet since Danish postal service is utter *****.
I'm thinking about doing one All is dust and two Oblivion Stone in the main and then having one more in the sideboard for Karn to fetch.
The questions is just, how many Walking Ballista, Thought-Knot Seer and Endbringer do I take out to make room for them? (Obviously also taking the Dismember out. It was just pseudo placeholders while testing it out a little. Using it in the colourless build)
I'm also not running Sanctum of Ugin since I don't have enough payoff cards. I also have a spot in the sideboard reserved for a Grafdigger's cage but I got a wrong card sent, so I'm still waiting for it.
I'm thinking of adding one World Breaker in the side or main, but I'm thinking I'd be better off using other cards since I'm not running Sanctum.
Is it worth having two Thragtusk in the side these days?
EDIT:
Got the last couple of cards today (except the Grafdigger's Cage and tweaked my list a little.
I swapped the two Endbringers out for a World Breaker and kept the 4th Walking Ballista in as the additional threat. I took out the 4th Nature's Claim for an Oblivion Stone in the sideboard. I know you guys were talking about adding the 4th, so maybe if I take out a Thragtusk for the 4th?
Also thinking about adding Ugin, the ineffable if I can get my hands on one before the tournament instead of one Ballista.
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Walking Ballista
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 World Breaker
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Planeswalkers:
4 Karn, the Great Creator
Artifacts:
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Expedition Map
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
2 Oblivion Stone
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 All is dust
Lands:
4 Forest
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
2 Blast Zone
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Nature's Claim
2 Thragtusk
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Defense Grid
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Mycosynth Lattice
It makes sense against the soon to come Thopter-Sword combo but right now i can only think of Humans and their ETB triggers which seems... really narrow to use a SB slot for.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Torpor Orb randomly hoses a lot of good things. Besides humans, it kneecaps Primeval Titan, giving us a chance to not be blown out by Amulet Titan or Titanshift. It also throws off Prized Amalgam and Snapcaster Mages. To be honest though, making sure you don't just die or get outvalued forever to Primeval Titan justifies the wish slot.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
The games I lost were pretty close too. I mostly lost either having to mull down to 4 and being umlucky with my draws or some missplays due to me not having played it much (this was the first time I actually played the deck. My normal play group have been too buys for cards lately)
Won against Burn and a weird R/U deck that was basically built to take out tron (steal lands and stuff like that). Lost to Storm, Esper Control and Scapeshift/Titan/Valakut or whatever that deck is called.
Left feeling pretty confident in the deck even though it doesn't have the big bombs like Karn Liberated and Big Ugin and had a lot of fun. Glad I've made the switch to Modern.
My favourite card was getting both my Blast Zones against the esper deck. It was amazing against control. Avoided counterspells and took out Teferi.
Vs. Whir prison 2-0
Felt strong. +1 Karn on his chalice. Tectonic Edge felt strong with crucible. Main deck Stony Silence effect won over his main deck Damping Sphere. Blast Zone was a real threat for him here as I threatened to wipe his pithing needles.
Vs. Humans 2-1
Tron things. Disabled Ugin's -X with my own Lattice...
Gotta watch that boys.
Vs. Ponza 0-2
Lost horribly. Not even close. I never made it to 3 mana.
Game 1: 0-2 counters company
The fact that we dont have more spot removal was hard.I get tron and karm tgc but wasnt enought.
Game 2 : 0-2 esper control
Horribly match,i'm still cant belive it.He field of ruin all my lands,counter all my spells,and kill me with kaya's ultimate both games.sad...
Game 3 2-0 Grixis Shadow.
G1 turn 3 Wurmcoil was enought. Game 2 was a little more complicated but Blast zone saved the game removing 2 shadows.
Game 3 0-2 Infect.
What to say,still the worst matchup immaginable.
I like the deck,but im gonna made some changea,i want dismember back on mainboard.
i reached top 8, lost by a grixis delver due to he was using boom/bast as away to defeat tron ,also i drew poorly
i want 4-0-1 at the 5 round swings
2-0 vs deaths shadow(big karn and Ugin were enough)
2-0 vs Bg midrange ( even though i drew like crazy big karn and ugin sealed the deal)
2-0 vs Great Creator tron mirror (game 1 got advantage with my early quarter and turn 5 ulamog end the game, game 2 made al lock out of new karn-crusible-quarter)
2-1 vs Spirits ( was though game drew poorly and didnt expect lavinia , my body was ready for damping shpere , but at the game 2 cards had shine blast zone and ugin)
ID with an other mirror
my conclusion from this event is that most of the matches not even all i didnt need the new karn to win my games i didnt even drew him expect from game 2 mirror at round 3
also it was really hard for me to sideboard in the match ups because of the sb being full of one off random artifacts
i even need a dismember against spirits where i just couldnt do a thing against lavinia
i might go back to the traditional build where my sideboard is more wide in the meta and more easy for me as i know better to sb with
last thing at my fnm's i didnt feel fun playing the new karn and make a 2 card combo with lattice , i dont know i might not be that kind of guy but i couldnt feel it that new karn fits in the deck from my point of view
thats all would like to hear your thoughts too peace !!
The SB is better in traditional and it may be that going forward we will need to have access to that again.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn