Tested Timely reinforcements online today against an aggro deck, and i can say it's incredibly powerful. Can't wait to cast it against burn as it can act as a 2x1 or even a 3x1 if we have less creatures than them. I'm impressed
Wouldn't Sphinx's Revelation be a better fit? Slower, sure, but scalable, unconditional, instant speed, and draws you spirits.
Tested Timely reinforcements online today against an aggro deck, and i can say it's incredibly powerful. Can't wait to cast it against burn as it can act as a 2x1 or even a 3x1 if we have less creatures than them. I'm impressed
Wouldn't Sphinx's Revelation be a better fit? Slower, sure, but scalable, unconditional, instant speed, and draws you spirits.
We can't reliably get to enough mana to make it better versus Burn than Timely, which gives us bodies and 6 life for 3. However, I think Timely is still worse than Rhox.
@StreexGeist
Completely agree that Nebelgast Herald is a beast. I have beaten PrimeTime and Emrakul with it more than once. It also just some out in a bunch of matches and having something easy to side out isn't bad.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Good day all,
Looking for advice for re-building into spirits. I've played spirits before, attempted UW and bant in the past with limited success. I've been on the fringe playing slivers forever and am looking into re-building spirits. What is your current opinion of Geist of Saint Traft? Are any of you still running it?
Hey all, been looking at some of the sideboards recently from some of the successfully performing lists. While cards like Rest in Peace and Stony Silence are obvious inclusions and require no explanation, I noticed that quite a few lists run copies of Mirran Crusader, and none run Damping Sphere. Can someone explain why Crusader is run in a deck with heavy creature density and inherent protection via hexproof? Also, why no Sphere? It seems like a very powerful card to bring in versus a variety of matchups - Tron, Eldrazi, and Storm (not sure if I am missing anything else in terms of auto-includes). Thoughts?
I would 100% confirm what StreexGeist is saying Re: Geist. Not good right now.
I love Image, its become my favorite card in the deck. Obviously better with vial than in other shells. Feels good to copy an Emrakul, Griselbrand (digging for that pte), or various Eldrazi. Of course the most powerful thing it can do is turn three double Captain.
Thanks for the advice on Herald. I stared with it and to be honest always liked it, but the random spirit players I've chatted with online derided me for the inclusion so I moved away. Against Death Shadow it was always great. I could see how it would really help vs. Hollow One, Primetime, or those pesky merfolk.
I played FNM locally (Ottawa - Canada) last week and went 4-0 with my version of Spirit Taxes -> No Curious Obsession and four copies of Phantasmal Image. I faced a red land destruction deck (ramping with artifacts to hit Wildfire) (2-1), Green Tron (2-0), BU Control (2-0), and merfolk (2-1). Three of those matchups are solidly in our favor so I got a bit lucky, but still, I'm 8-0 with Spirits the last two paper events, so that feels solid.
I love Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in spirit taxes. I think in regular w/u spirits I would lean towards Eidolon or Spirit of the Labyrinth just for the added synergy and protection, plus they work better with that Herald you'll are talking about:)
I love Kor Firewalker and I've been trying one copy of Burrenton Forge-Tender. I've really liked it. Its a fifth copy of Selfless Spirt in certain matchups, and you can bring it in vs. Add Nauseum/Storm to slow them down, also useful vs. Burn and Goblins. I like a 1/1 split of Firewalker and Forge-Tender.
@Streex: I'm curious about a couple of your SB choices. Your running Hurkl's Recall over Kataki? It seems like your SB is very light vs. artifacts/tron. No Ceremonious Rejection, Stony Silence, Disdainful Stroke? Do you find Deprive fits the job fine on its own? Looking online it seems that Deprive is currently in favor in Merfolk, so that makes sense. I'm guessing Hindering Light is for Add Nauseum, Burn, and heavy removal decks like Jund? How do you find it?
Hey all, been looking at some of the sideboards recently from some of the successfully performing lists. While cards like Rest in Peace and Stony Silence are obvious inclusions and require no explanation, I noticed that quite a few lists run copies of Mirran Crusader, and none run Damping Sphere. Can someone explain why Crusader is run in a deck with heavy creature density and inherent protection via hexproof? Also, why no Sphere? It seems like a very powerful card to bring in versus a variety of matchups - Tron, Eldrazi, and Storm (not sure if I am missing anything else in terms of auto-includes). Thoughts?
Flash plays very well against tron and we have path for the Wormcoil Engines. Aside from popping ostone or map, they operate entirely at sorcery speed. As for storm, wanderer and queller do a lot of work preboard for the match up. eidolon of rhetoric is also an on tribe hate card. Lists that run Thalia 1.0 have even more hate for storm baked in. Both matches are easier for spirits to navigate then other tribes just because the better spirit cards play so well in both matches. Sphere isn't a slam dunk for spirits like it is for other decks. Eldrazi only has 4 targets for sphere if they're bant or RG, the temple. Eldrazi tron is a different story, but ballista is super effective against us and we can back sphere up with enough of a clock for it to matter most games. It's just not a great match and hexproof becomes more important here imo. Sphere would be a fine inclusion vs elves, but the deck sees light play and engineered explosives in the bant shell is just so much stronger since it's also great vs bogles, goblins, etc.
mirran crusader is just flat out great against jund and death shadow. Death shadow decks in particular have issues removing him if they aren't on bolt. He also puts up respectable results against some of hollow one. He swings for quite a bit with hierarch and/or curious obsession. If he connects with obsession you draw two cards.
Stony silence and RIP are still great cards, but I'm honestly surprised kataki doesn't get a bit more love against affinity. With the image/captains he can grow to be a respectable threat.
The bigger issue in my mind is humans. The deck is representing scary % of top 16 performances and is hitting like. 30+% game 2 shares in some team events. I'm not sure what we do for them...I've beaten the deck but my opponent played into a settle the wreckage. That's not a mistake he'll make going forward at the LGS.
Phantasmal image is awesome and if it wasn't for deck space i could see myself play with the full set, but i agree that there is no consensus on the correct number. My personal favorite use of it is vs burn, copying eidolon of the great revel (this actually happens quite often when i'm playing against this deck). Basically locks down the burn player from killing us if we can manage to have a clock and dodge eidolon triggers with vial. Also eidolon is and spirit which is quite hilarious.
Oh my god, I've won so many games vs. Burn copying Eidolon. It's so good. The card makes me so happy. The number is always the question. My primary argument for four is that in my view, the strongest play we can make is turn three Captain + vial Image. The more times you can do that, the more times you will win.
I've tested, 2 (started with two), 3, and four. I always come back to four. But, I could see scenarios where fewer is better. If your running Curious Obsession that might be one such situation because you can dig for it.
@Streexgeist, I'll test Hurkl's Recall as well. I don't love Kataki, War's Wage because it taxes our vials. I find Stony Silence is usually game over against Affinity regardless of whether it shuts down our vial. I don't bring Kataki in vs. Tron because it rarely does anything.
I'm just really like Spirit Taxes right now. Prior to switching Tron, Titanshift, along with Humans/Merfolk were my most difficult matchups. Leonin Arbiter changes the matchup vs. Tron and Titanshift. I also like it vs. Jund. I loved playing with Kor Firewalker to fight burn, but Thalia, Guardian of Thraben does a solid job in its stead.
It feels like Spirit Taxes is the best build in the current meta, but I could be totally wrong:) Just how things are playing out for me in the friendly queue's online.
Oh yeah, vialing image is super good and leads to a lot of powerful plays, enough that leaving it on 2 when you have enough mana to cast the rest of your stuff can be right sometimes.
Yes, i've been enjoying it as a 2x, 4x seems too much and could lead to awkward opening hands. Like i've said in an earlier post it is really good vs decks with few interaction and can takeover the game sometimes. It gets sided out vs midrange control because of the possibility of getting 2 for 1'd.
I recently started playing Bant Spirits, went 3-1 at my first night with it. In the last game I got matched up with Humans...and got destroyed, wasn't even close.
What are some strong SB options I can get in for Humans?
I guess the reason why Bant struggles against Humans is cause it's not running Nebelgast Herald, which is the best piece i have in UW against them, and the one they name first with meddling mage once they have suffered its triggers
Yeah Humans is a tough MU for us. As for sideboard cards, Settle the Wreckage and Worship are very strong options. You should bring in additional removal too if you have it in your board (Blessed Alliance for example)
My humans win was off the back of a settle. No one sees it coming in modern and they run 1-2 basics at most. The blow outs are real.
What's the point in being scared of losing your creatures to a potential staticaster when you get to kill them by yourself casting a wrath? Again, i run an UW list, so different stuff, but I've got 2x Favorable winds, 4x lords and 2x Kira, which deal with staticaster pretty efficiently. I guess you could dig your deck with coco in search for a lord and play Kira in your side.
If i was to play a wrath effect, i'd go for settle the wreckage anyways.
Your card advantage is much stronger, so wipes don't hurt you as much. But you also have Selfless Spirit which makes wraths almost one-sided.
Also there is definitely more things I want to take out, then what I currently have in my sideboard to bring in. Against humans Geist of Saint Traft feels REALLY bad, and Mausoleum Wanderer feels like a Suntail Hawk.
i don't know, our suntail hawk is the best spirit in racing situation, it contributes to possibly 80%-90% of our turn 4-5 wins. I wouldn't even consider taking out what's been deemed as "the best creature in the deck", if not for curve purposes (we need a 1-mana creature). Tallowisp solves our mana curve issues and is good in defensive terms. building a list with him is rough, though. The first thing you'll notice is that Pacifism will probably substitute Path to Exile
Now running 2x eidolon main and nebelgast 3-4 in the sideboard, for when i really need them. Not that 4x was bad but as the metagame shifted i feel like i need to be more resilient vs various lightning bolt nonesense, eidolon really helps.
My 2/2 split is totally a meta choice, if i were to attend a bigger tournament i'd likely bring back the gasts 3-4 from the side into the main.
For graveyard hate, that depends on your meta. I run one relic of progenitus and one grafdigger's cage in my sideboard and have been happy with it. I found rest in peace screws up my moorland haunt plan vs midrange/control decks, and that land is among our best cards in those matchups. These are also matchups where you want to interact with their graveyard because of snapcaster mage, tarmogoyf, bedlam reveler, lingering souls, etc, so there is a little bit of tension with rip. The artifacts can disrupt the opponent without interfering too much with our best land. Also cage comes in vs collected company/chord of calling decks so thats why i like the 1/1 split.
I love the maindeck Eidolons. (The salt from storm players G1 tastes so sweet!) But in reality, they play so well with the tempo plan. If I stick an Eidolon then I can typically counter each play my opponent tries to make while still advancing my board. Aether Vial is also great to break the synergy.
The 2 Curious Obsessions are a test-slot and a throwback to my first list which ran 4. I really liked them and they definitely let me run away with some games, but I think a playset is far too much. These get pulled against the various removal.decs for obvious card disadvantage reasons. Echoing Truth is there as a catch-all, but is probably a mistake. I just really hate Lilis and Bridges.
I've had great success with the 2/2 Path/Snag split as I enjoy being able to leverage the Snags on my own creatures for unexpected plays and value.
The 3 Phantasmal Images have been great, which is a pleasant surprise as when I ran a playset I hated seeing them. I was often pulling Images with no spirits to copy and that felt bad. 3 feels like a good spot and it certainly feels good getting the T3 Drogskol+Image "lock".
Sideboard is constantly changing, but this is the current iteration. The astute observer will notice one Watery Grave in the maindeck and that is solely there to get Explosives to 3 if needed. Also Island + Plains + Mountain (when under bloodmoon) is a nice answer. Trying out Kira and Disenchant as new slots, and the Sorcerous has been nice against Tron and Last Hope Lili's. The 4 Counterspells help shore up the Big Mana matches which feel abysmal.
I may end up swapping the Curious Obsessions back to Remands. We'll see how things go.
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Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Wouldn't Sphinx's Revelation be a better fit? Slower, sure, but scalable, unconditional, instant speed, and draws you spirits.
We can't reliably get to enough mana to make it better versus Burn than Timely, which gives us bodies and 6 life for 3. However, I think Timely is still worse than Rhox.
@StreexGeist
Completely agree that Nebelgast Herald is a beast. I have beaten PrimeTime and Emrakul with it more than once. It also just some out in a bunch of matches and having something easy to side out isn't bad.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Looking for advice for re-building into spirits. I've played spirits before, attempted UW and bant in the past with limited success. I've been on the fringe playing slivers forever and am looking into re-building spirits. What is your current opinion of Geist of Saint Traft? Are any of you still running it?
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
I love Image, its become my favorite card in the deck. Obviously better with vial than in other shells. Feels good to copy an Emrakul, Griselbrand (digging for that pte), or various Eldrazi. Of course the most powerful thing it can do is turn three double Captain.
Thanks for the advice on Herald. I stared with it and to be honest always liked it, but the random spirit players I've chatted with online derided me for the inclusion so I moved away. Against Death Shadow it was always great. I could see how it would really help vs. Hollow One, Primetime, or those pesky merfolk.
I played FNM locally (Ottawa - Canada) last week and went 4-0 with my version of Spirit Taxes -> No Curious Obsession and four copies of Phantasmal Image. I faced a red land destruction deck (ramping with artifacts to hit Wildfire) (2-1), Green Tron (2-0), BU Control (2-0), and merfolk (2-1). Three of those matchups are solidly in our favor so I got a bit lucky, but still, I'm 8-0 with Spirits the last two paper events, so that feels solid.
I love Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in spirit taxes. I think in regular w/u spirits I would lean towards Eidolon or Spirit of the Labyrinth just for the added synergy and protection, plus they work better with that Herald you'll are talking about:)
I love Kor Firewalker and I've been trying one copy of Burrenton Forge-Tender. I've really liked it. Its a fifth copy of Selfless Spirt in certain matchups, and you can bring it in vs. Add Nauseum/Storm to slow them down, also useful vs. Burn and Goblins. I like a 1/1 split of Firewalker and Forge-Tender.
@Streex: I'm curious about a couple of your SB choices. Your running Hurkl's Recall over Kataki? It seems like your SB is very light vs. artifacts/tron. No Ceremonious Rejection, Stony Silence, Disdainful Stroke? Do you find Deprive fits the job fine on its own? Looking online it seems that Deprive is currently in favor in Merfolk, so that makes sense. I'm guessing Hindering Light is for Add Nauseum, Burn, and heavy removal decks like Jund? How do you find it?
Flash plays very well against tron and we have path for the Wormcoil Engines. Aside from popping ostone or map, they operate entirely at sorcery speed. As for storm, wanderer and queller do a lot of work preboard for the match up. eidolon of rhetoric is also an on tribe hate card. Lists that run Thalia 1.0 have even more hate for storm baked in. Both matches are easier for spirits to navigate then other tribes just because the better spirit cards play so well in both matches. Sphere isn't a slam dunk for spirits like it is for other decks. Eldrazi only has 4 targets for sphere if they're bant or RG, the temple. Eldrazi tron is a different story, but ballista is super effective against us and we can back sphere up with enough of a clock for it to matter most games. It's just not a great match and hexproof becomes more important here imo. Sphere would be a fine inclusion vs elves, but the deck sees light play and engineered explosives in the bant shell is just so much stronger since it's also great vs bogles, goblins, etc.
mirran crusader is just flat out great against jund and death shadow. Death shadow decks in particular have issues removing him if they aren't on bolt. He also puts up respectable results against some of hollow one. He swings for quite a bit with hierarch and/or curious obsession. If he connects with obsession you draw two cards.
Stony silence and RIP are still great cards, but I'm honestly surprised kataki doesn't get a bit more love against affinity. With the image/captains he can grow to be a respectable threat.
The bigger issue in my mind is humans. The deck is representing scary % of top 16 performances and is hitting like. 30+% game 2 shares in some team events. I'm not sure what we do for them...I've beaten the deck but my opponent played into a settle the wreckage. That's not a mistake he'll make going forward at the LGS.
I've tested, 2 (started with two), 3, and four. I always come back to four. But, I could see scenarios where fewer is better. If your running Curious Obsession that might be one such situation because you can dig for it.
@Streexgeist, I'll test Hurkl's Recall as well. I don't love Kataki, War's Wage because it taxes our vials. I find Stony Silence is usually game over against Affinity regardless of whether it shuts down our vial. I don't bring Kataki in vs. Tron because it rarely does anything.
I'm just really like Spirit Taxes right now. Prior to switching Tron, Titanshift, along with Humans/Merfolk were my most difficult matchups. Leonin Arbiter changes the matchup vs. Tron and Titanshift. I also like it vs. Jund. I loved playing with Kor Firewalker to fight burn, but Thalia, Guardian of Thraben does a solid job in its stead.
It feels like Spirit Taxes is the best build in the current meta, but I could be totally wrong:) Just how things are playing out for me in the friendly queue's online.
What are some strong SB options I can get in for Humans?
While Nebelgast Herald seems strong, I don't know how I feel about putting more spirits on the board that die to Izzet Staticaster
I might just try more wraths next week, if I can out value them with CoCo after board wipes.
My humans win was off the back of a settle. No one sees it coming in modern and they run 1-2 basics at most. The blow outs are real.
Your card advantage is much stronger, so wipes don't hurt you as much. But you also have Selfless Spirit which makes wraths almost one-sided.
Also there is definitely more things I want to take out, then what I currently have in my sideboard to bring in. Against humans Geist of Saint Traft feels REALLY bad, and Mausoleum Wanderer feels like a Suntail Hawk.
I think Curious Obsession might actually have some game against humans, I'd have to test it more though. Maybe taking out the Mausoleum Wanderer for someTallowisp and Pacifism would work.
Tallowisp has been the most fun spirit deck for me. Seems to do well also. This is my updated list
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Tallowisp
2 Drogskol Captain
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Spell Queller
Spells:15
1 Curious Obsession
1 Mark of Eviction
2 Oppressive Rays
4 Path to Exile
1 Rancor
4 Reach Through Mists
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Breeding Pool
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Flooded Strand
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Plains
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Temple Garden
2 Windswept Heath
3 Kami of False Hope
3 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Selfless Spirit
1 Curious Obsession
1 Spirit Link
2 Singing Bell Strike
1 Spirit Mantle
1 Weight of Conscience
1 Gift of Immortality
4 path to exile
auras: 2
2 curious obsession
artifacts: 4
4 aether vial
creatures: 28
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 selfless spirit
4 rattlechains
2 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 phantasmal image
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
2 nebelgast herald
2 eidolon of rhetoric
4 flooded strand
1 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
1 windswept heath
1 marsh flats
2 hallowed fountain
2 irrigated farmland
3 plains
3 island
2 seachrome coast
2 moorland haunt
1 kira, great glass-spinner
2 nebelgast herald
2 burrenton forge-tender
1 pithing needle
1 grafdigger's cage
1 relic of progenitus
1 dispel
2 ceremonious rejection
2 blessed alliance
2 detention sphere
Now running 2x eidolon main and nebelgast 3-4 in the sideboard, for when i really need them. Not that 4x was bad but as the metagame shifted i feel like i need to be more resilient vs various lightning bolt nonesense, eidolon really helps.
For graveyard hate, that depends on your meta. I run one relic of progenitus and one grafdigger's cage in my sideboard and have been happy with it. I found rest in peace screws up my moorland haunt plan vs midrange/control decks, and that land is among our best cards in those matchups. These are also matchups where you want to interact with their graveyard because of snapcaster mage, tarmogoyf, bedlam reveler, lingering souls, etc, so there is a little bit of tension with rip. The artifacts can disrupt the opponent without interfering too much with our best land. Also cage comes in vs collected company/chord of calling decks so thats why i like the 1/1 split.
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
4 Nebelgast Herald
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
Spells
2 Curious Obsession
1 Echoing Truth
2 Path to Exile
2 Vapor Snag
1 Adarkar Wastes
4 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
2 Moorland Haunt
1 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Watery Grave
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Rest In Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Disenchant
2 Mana Leak
2 Negate
1 Settle the Wreckage
I love the maindeck Eidolons. (The salt from storm players G1 tastes so sweet!) But in reality, they play so well with the tempo plan. If I stick an Eidolon then I can typically counter each play my opponent tries to make while still advancing my board. Aether Vial is also great to break the synergy.
The 2 Curious Obsessions are a test-slot and a throwback to my first list which ran 4. I really liked them and they definitely let me run away with some games, but I think a playset is far too much. These get pulled against the various removal.decs for obvious card disadvantage reasons. Echoing Truth is there as a catch-all, but is probably a mistake. I just really hate Lilis and Bridges.
I've had great success with the 2/2 Path/Snag split as I enjoy being able to leverage the Snags on my own creatures for unexpected plays and value.
The 3 Phantasmal Images have been great, which is a pleasant surprise as when I ran a playset I hated seeing them. I was often pulling Images with no spirits to copy and that felt bad. 3 feels like a good spot and it certainly feels good getting the T3 Drogskol+Image "lock".
Sideboard is constantly changing, but this is the current iteration. The astute observer will notice one Watery Grave in the maindeck and that is solely there to get Explosives to 3 if needed. Also Island + Plains + Mountain (when under bloodmoon) is a nice answer. Trying out Kira and Disenchant as new slots, and the Sorcerous has been nice against Tron and Last Hope Lili's. The 4 Counterspells help shore up the Big Mana matches which feel abysmal.
I may end up swapping the Curious Obsessions back to Remands. We'll see how things go.