I just decided to try this deck (played a few games before but then gave up on it). So I have a question about sideboarding. How do you sb vs Hardened Scales Affinity? I imagine Stony Silence is good but don't know about the rest and what to board out.
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My decks:
Modern:
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
I like RiP a lot too because it prevents 8 of their cards from moving counters around, which are the archbound ravager and worker. Hangarback walker is also exiled and won't generate any thopter when sacrificed.
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and play the traditional uw list. I recently tried a 2 ofs Pride of the Clouds in the place of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in the main and move her to the board. I think it offer redundant creature after a terminus with the forecast ability and can kill really quickly as it gets pump by all our creatures and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
My response is quite simple: Does that card interrupt combo? That is the only reason to run Thalia, to slow our opponents down so we can beat them because we are the better fair deck.
i've tried midnight haunting and found it a bit lackluster. It would be great if paired with nebelgast herald, but then you risk having an excessively steep curve with 15 or 16 3-drops.
UW has not many other viable options though, so the choice is yours. what list were you planning to play?
Also: if you don't mind splashing for black there would be lingering souls
I've played some UW Spirits recently. Here's my perspective on a few cards.
Worship (1 Side) - Super good against some decks such as elves and humans. Shaman of the Pack can get around it but my opponent didn't realize that. Much better than wraths against creature decks in my opinion.
Curious Obsession (1 Main)- I love it when it works, but cutting creatures for more copies makes it less reliable. You don't want to draw more than 1, there isn't a surplus of openings where the opponent is tapped out or where you can reliably protect your investment. I'd like to play more than 1, but this is the most effective number of copies I think. Chart a Course seems much worst as it doesn't apply pressure.
Thalia (2 Main)- It's devastating against many decks. I consider going up to 3.
Phantasmal Image (2 Main) - The combo with Drogskol is sweet, but I side these out whenever there is removal. Similar restrictions to Curious Obsession in regards to having too many of these and not enough creatures to go with.
Giest of Saint Traft (1 Main) - Very matchup dependant, feels like a sideboard card.
Moorland Haunt (1 Main) - I don't play 2 because I feel like I'm already streching the number of colored sources. It's awesome in grindy matchups. I don't mind the nonbo with RiP.
Mutavault (4 Main) - Flooding problems can't really go lower thanks to this card. I want to cut 1 for a Canopy though.
Horizon Canopy (0) - One of these seems better than Mutavault for 2 reasons. First, it's a white mana source for Path, Thalia and sideboard cards. second, it opens up different options compared to when you have 2 Mutavaults.
Ghost Quarters (0) - Once again, colored mana sources.
Eidolon of Rhetoric (1 Side) - We rarely have to play multiple spells per turn thanks to Vial and Rattlechains, but this effect is very crippling to most cantrip decks. It is much better than Damping Sphere, except against Tron, but I don't have experience with that matchup.
Hei, UW spirits update: today i top4'ed at a 25 people tourney. Nothing amazing to talk about beside the impact Serum Visions had on my games. I have tested 2x MB because 8x 1cmc drops are such a silly number I can't stand it any longer ( and yeah I'm still on UW instead of bant just because I like the two colours). So I wanted something to do turn 1 in case of no vial/wanderer showing up, and serum is a sweet filler. You might argue opt plays better with our strategy, but I think there're so many spots where you can curve out with serum that it's nonsense to give up the scry 2 option. Opt's great when you ve got spell queller up, fact is that I wanted cantrips to either fit the moment of the game where I've just landed my first land, or later to cycle for one and sculpt the top of the deck to prevent flooding. SV + vial is so good I don't need to explain, you sculpt the top in order to be able to curve out with vials and mana in the most efficient way. Also, scrying land+vial to the bottom has won one of the crucial games to get in the top 8. Had I drawn those two, I would have died with no gase in hand against Naya Company.
Now I'm testing the 3x serum + 2x obsessions. Maybe a bit too much but I want to see how much this filter/draw package helps. Making the deck shorter is very useful post side to dig for bullets, having extra 1cmc drops is so much better than having pseudo one drops ( refering to the 3x obsessions I had in my previous version of the deck) or too many 2-3cmc drops which make your deck so clunky in absence of vial.
So, this is where I'm at with UW Spirits. Big up for SV really, I ve been on this card one year ago when I still did not have eough experience to understand the role of it in the curve. Now I feel like I know how to extract the maximum value out of it and the perception is that of a deck that is capable of keeping hands i would have normally sent back just because SV allows you to dig 3 cards deep to search the type of card you are in need of.
I am new to this thread but I have read many of the comments. It seems like a major concern for UW Spirits is card draw. What do you think of running a card like Shy Hussar?
No way, creatures must tap to attack. Also, it won't help you recover once your board has been wiped away. Drawing in my opinion has to come through creatures or via 1cmc non creature spells. Other options make the deck more clunky and they shouldn't be considered in the UW version where we have no mana acceleration.
Waiting for wizards to print some new blowout card advantage engine and make me take this all back.
At my last FNM I played against Jeskai and UW Control, and both were Serum Visioning turn 1 which seemed to help them set up what they needed - lands/spot removal/sweeper. Also late game it still has some utility as a redraw with upside to keep digging. Definitely want to try 2-3 SV/Opt this week.
I have took a read at the UW control forum where many argue SV is superior to opt; their issue with SV is that it won't enable instant speed terminus, it actually nver triggers miracle so they have been forced to pick opt instead (it's also true their deck demands staying open with mana as much as they can). What they say is that there's a number of situations where you just like the first card and thus you lose the scry two.
I'm picking SV because my intention is to cast it either on turn 1 or later off-curve, and because of the scry 2 precisely. It helps so much curving out and the card itself digs 3 deep: this means you can comfortably keep a one land-vial hand on the play because worst case scenario you re likely to miss one single land drop, SV will find another one. One thing I'm getting convinced about is that a dead card off the top of your deck is just equal at skipping your draw step; I guess UW players here know what I mean to be running out of spells and peeling a couple lands. It makes me feel so good to remove one unnecessary vial from the top.
SV makes also your sideboard plan much more consistent, so far I'm liking it a lot and I think it's best 9th to 11th 1cmc drop we have access to at the moment.
SV makes also your sideboard plan much more consistent, so far I'm liking it a lot and I think it's best 9th to 11th 1cmc drop we have access to at the moment.
I think this is an interesting point to pursue - as a Humans player, having a 1 drop makes a huge difference to how matches start off - in UW Spirits having Vial for instant speed play/developing our board or Wanderer as early pressure/disruption certainly help our starts. With Bant Spirits adding Noble Hierarch to the mix, I think UW should probably be looking for another 1 drop (Path is a possible option, but not a definite Turn 1 play unlike the other options) and Serum Visions is well placed as a card that you wouldn't necessarily mind drawing Turn 10 due to the high level of digging it offers.
I've ordered 3 SV for FNM, if they don't arrive in time I might try Opt as an alternative.
I'm interest to build bant spirit but i don't have aether vial. So does aethervial important for this deck? What cards can be budget choice for aether vial?
I'm interest to build bant spirit but i don't have aether vial. So does aethervial important for this deck? What cards can be budget choice for aether vial?
I haven't played Bant Spirits since the 1/3 Lord, but I think you can play it without Aether Vial. I am even somewhat attempted to forego Aether Vial in a Company deck, despite owning them myself. For what it's worth, I have read Pro articles for Aether Vial, so I know the positives. I just am still unconvinced the positives are that much more than the negatives.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I 've just 5-0ed in MtGO competitive league with the 3 SV list. All there's to say about this card is that it has removed 2x vials from the top in one game, it's able of doing stuff like T1 draw,scry stony silence to the top, T2 stony, tron dies (Stony was 3 cards deep before SV). Again, it makes many of the hands keepable just because of its presence, haven't had anything this useful in my deck since the last time I've actually played with it long ago.
One option could be going all in on SV shaving one obsession, but obsesion is just as much powerful once the game goes on, I value that card a lot too.
One option could be going all in on SV shaving one obsession, but obsesion is just as much powerful once the game goes on, I value that card a lot too.
Congratulations on the 5-0!
How do you find Deprive as your counter spell of choice over Unified Will/Negate/Mana Leak? I can never quite settle on a set of counter spells that I'm 100% happy with, and the double blue casting cost of Deprive has caught me out a couple of times with 4 colourless lands.
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Modern:
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
Welcome aboard!
My response is quite simple: Does that card interrupt combo? That is the only reason to run Thalia, to slow our opponents down so we can beat them because we are the better fair deck.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
You're probably right since my local meta doesn't have any combo deck so I'm not sold on Thalia.
Is it worth it to use Midnight Haunting instead of Collective Company if I want to stay in UW colours??
UW has not many other viable options though, so the choice is yours. what list were you planning to play?
Also: if you don't mind splashing for black there would be lingering souls
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
Worship (1 Side) - Super good against some decks such as elves and humans. Shaman of the Pack can get around it but my opponent didn't realize that. Much better than wraths against creature decks in my opinion.
Curious Obsession (1 Main)- I love it when it works, but cutting creatures for more copies makes it less reliable. You don't want to draw more than 1, there isn't a surplus of openings where the opponent is tapped out or where you can reliably protect your investment. I'd like to play more than 1, but this is the most effective number of copies I think. Chart a Course seems much worst as it doesn't apply pressure.
Thalia (2 Main)- It's devastating against many decks. I consider going up to 3.
Phantasmal Image (2 Main) - The combo with Drogskol is sweet, but I side these out whenever there is removal. Similar restrictions to Curious Obsession in regards to having too many of these and not enough creatures to go with.
Giest of Saint Traft (1 Main) - Very matchup dependant, feels like a sideboard card.
Moorland Haunt (1 Main) - I don't play 2 because I feel like I'm already streching the number of colored sources. It's awesome in grindy matchups. I don't mind the nonbo with RiP.
Mutavault (4 Main) - Flooding problems can't really go lower thanks to this card. I want to cut 1 for a Canopy though.
Horizon Canopy (0) - One of these seems better than Mutavault for 2 reasons. First, it's a white mana source for Path, Thalia and sideboard cards. second, it opens up different options compared to when you have 2 Mutavaults.
Ghost Quarters (0) - Once again, colored mana sources.
Eidolon of Rhetoric (1 Side) - We rarely have to play multiple spells per turn thanks to Vial and Rattlechains, but this effect is very crippling to most cantrip decks. It is much better than Damping Sphere, except against Tron, but I don't have experience with that matchup.
Now I'm testing the 3x serum + 2x obsessions. Maybe a bit too much but I want to see how much this filter/draw package helps. Making the deck shorter is very useful post side to dig for bullets, having extra 1cmc drops is so much better than having pseudo one drops ( refering to the 3x obsessions I had in my previous version of the deck) or too many 2-3cmc drops which make your deck so clunky in absence of vial.
So, this is where I'm at with UW Spirits. Big up for SV really, I ve been on this card one year ago when I still did not have eough experience to understand the role of it in the curve. Now I feel like I know how to extract the maximum value out of it and the perception is that of a deck that is capable of keeping hands i would have normally sent back just because SV allows you to dig 3 cards deep to search the type of card you are in need of.
Waiting for wizards to print some new blowout card advantage engine and make me take this all back.
At my last FNM I played against Jeskai and UW Control, and both were Serum Visioning turn 1 which seemed to help them set up what they needed - lands/spot removal/sweeper. Also late game it still has some utility as a redraw with upside to keep digging. Definitely want to try 2-3 SV/Opt this week.
I'm picking SV because my intention is to cast it either on turn 1 or later off-curve, and because of the scry 2 precisely. It helps so much curving out and the card itself digs 3 deep: this means you can comfortably keep a one land-vial hand on the play because worst case scenario you re likely to miss one single land drop, SV will find another one. One thing I'm getting convinced about is that a dead card off the top of your deck is just equal at skipping your draw step; I guess UW players here know what I mean to be running out of spells and peeling a couple lands. It makes me feel so good to remove one unnecessary vial from the top.
SV makes also your sideboard plan much more consistent, so far I'm liking it a lot and I think it's best 9th to 11th 1cmc drop we have access to at the moment.
I think this is an interesting point to pursue - as a Humans player, having a 1 drop makes a huge difference to how matches start off - in UW Spirits having Vial for instant speed play/developing our board or Wanderer as early pressure/disruption certainly help our starts. With Bant Spirits adding Noble Hierarch to the mix, I think UW should probably be looking for another 1 drop (Path is a possible option, but not a definite Turn 1 play unlike the other options) and Serum Visions is well placed as a card that you wouldn't necessarily mind drawing Turn 10 due to the high level of digging it offers.
I've ordered 3 SV for FNM, if they don't arrive in time I might try Opt as an alternative.
I'm interest to build bant spirit but i don't have aether vial. So does aethervial important for this deck? What cards can be budget choice for aether vial?
I haven't played Bant Spirits since the 1/3 Lord, but I think you can play it without Aether Vial. I am even somewhat attempted to forego Aether Vial in a Company deck, despite owning them myself. For what it's worth, I have read Pro articles for Aether Vial, so I know the positives. I just am still unconvinced the positives are that much more than the negatives.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)This is the list I'm using right now:
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
1 Remorseful Cleric
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
1 Nebelgast Herald
Spells: 13
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Curious Obsession
3 Serum Visions
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Mutavault
1 Cavern of souls
1 Echoing Truth
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Deprive
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest In Peace
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Azorius Herald
1 Geist of Saint Traft
One option could be going all in on SV shaving one obsession, but obsesion is just as much powerful once the game goes on, I value that card a lot too.
Congratulations on the 5-0!
How do you find Deprive as your counter spell of choice over Unified Will/Negate/Mana Leak? I can never quite settle on a set of counter spells that I'm 100% happy with, and the double blue casting cost of Deprive has caught me out a couple of times with 4 colourless lands.