You have to draw it, first, and running only one is pretty unreliable.
Getting to four lands, especially on-curve, is very tough in a 21-land list, without card draw or filtering, which few UW lists run in any reliable quantities.
The matches you want Worship for tend to be against aggro decks, unless I misunderstand. I don't know how many games I've lost in the past while holding Damnation in hand, but not having the mana to cast it--in a 24-land list.
What replaces Worship that is not susceptible to or even more susceptible to the same logic, for the matches where Worship is amazing?
Amazing (little creature removal + little enchantment hate):
Humans
Burn
Mardu Pyro
UR Storm (not sure I would bring it in , as I prefer Negate + RiP, but they can't really deal with it if you did)
Death's Shadow
Valakut decks
Good, but not flawless against (fast + enchantment hate):
KCI (they do have enchantment removal, but we are often one swing from beating them, so all we need is for Worship to buy us 1-2 turns)
Affinity, despite Innkmoth creatures, because they can't hit us with infect quite as aggressively as Hardened Scales.
GWx Company
Bogles
Dredge/Dredgevine/Hollow One
Mediocre:
Hardened Scales because of super-powered Inkmoth Nexus + enchantment removal + super-powered Walking Ballista.
Bad (basically, all decks with lots of wrath/Terminus):
Tron
UW Control
Jeskai Control
Infect
Clearly, our best bet vs. the top 3 Artifact decks is Stony Silence, where Worship is more or less backup that makes it hard for them to address all the elements of our hate. However, we don't needWorship for those matches, IMHO and we don't want to over-board. However, as Inkmoth is a flyer and we are essentially ALL fliers, we can at least create a stalemate until we can go wide.
It should prevent flooding out, while also guaranteeing enough coloured sources to be playable. Horizon canopy acts as a plains that grants an additional redraw later in game
Btw Tron is a difficult matchup but not nearly as bad as terminus (miracles), elves, hardened scales affinity or primeval titan decks
Have you test this manabase this days? I'm really curious about your results.
I just want to say, I have been very, very impressed with the results this deck has been putting up of late. And suprised to be honest. I have been follow it an it seems to consistently make TOP 8, but appears to struggle hitting a 1st place. It's interesting, this deck just needs something to place it as that 1st place contender.
I need to be following this thread more. I have been building this deck, with excitement, just missing some fetch lands.
Once I get it fully running I plan on playing it regularly to see where I can get it. But thank all of you guys for shared your games and thought process. I want to see this deck hit 1st at a big event.
We've seen some Vial/Company ideas here, but 3 Vials trigger me so much hahaha. Also, my love for 4 Rattlechains and 4 Selfless Spirits is unconditional, at least until we get more sexy spirits.
The main looks fine. Not sure about Auriok Champion, but most the SB is okay, but I would rather have some kind of combo hate (Thalia, Eidolon) than Auriok, but that's me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
The main looks fine. Not sure about Auriok Champion, but most the SB is okay, but I would rather have some kind of combo hate (Thalia, Eidolon) than Auriok, but that's me.
Maybe -1 Negate, -1 Stony, +2 Eidolon? Or maybe go extra saucy and play some number of Spirit of the Labyrinth?
Hi guys, New Spirits pilot here, just getting back from a 2 year hiatus, just picked the UW version of the deck, glad to join the Geist army, also hoping for new toys from ravnica (anything in the azorius, Dimir and Orzhov ranks), maybe I’m thinking too far ahead but seeing how 2 of the 3 spirit user guilds have B, I’m looking to get the cards needed for a black splash in the manabase and I have some doubts on the consensus on some cards that might be helpful:
What do you think of Dimir Infiltrator, and Vault of the Archangel in a black splash? Infiltrator has added evasion and transmute can come in handy when looking for a lord, and vault seems to add some extra when blocking/attacking, life link and death touch seem good late game, just block his cratures, sac selfless spirit, then profit. Also what is the consensus on Cathedral of War on UW it enters tapped but grants an instant +1/+1 turn 2 and later, maybe in a mix with haunts and mutavaults???
Sorry if this cards have been discussed, if so if any could point the way for the discussion I’ll be more than thankful!!
My first thought on infiltrator is a big no. The sorcery speed 3 mana cost of transmute is terrible in a tempo strategy. Turn 3 is were we gain tempo with queller or get aggro by developping our board. If you want lord redundancy just play phantasmal image. Vault is probably ok for a 1x. Not sure it is better than more moorland haunt/mutavault/field of ruin/ghost quarter/etc and in a 3 color deck you have to choose your utility lands very wisely. Cathedral is terrible imo. Never play tapped lands, let alone colorless mana producing tapped lands, in your tempo deck unless they are very good.
@theonlyjf
Feels like there has been a lot of moving back and forth between UW Vial and Bant CoCo, and this is the position that overcomes that dichotomy, not by being in the middle, but by embracing only what matters out of both. The build is in reality more aggressive than UW Vial by getting ride of 2/1 flyers for Hierarch + GoST + lord-centric package, but less susceptible to petering out in the mid to late game thanks to CoCo. Simultaneously, the deck is less susceptible to counter magic and can double-spell early and late. PVDDR not only beat Humans in the semis and finals (albeit, by playing carefully and drawing 4 PtE), but he finished the finals match vs. Humans in minutes.
His sideboard was adjusted to that approach very clearly: 0 Worship, 0 Damping Sphere, which are stall cards, followed up with 2 Dromoka's Command, 2 Thalia and 1 Gaddock Teeg. Teeg plus counterspells is very well-positioned against UW Control and Tron, Thalia manages Burn and Combo, and Dromoka's Command is good in aggro creature matches, Burn, and against opposing Worships. All of those are aggressive choices that add control, but can still attack your opponent, i.e. classic aggro-control/tempo.
3/3 RiP/Stony is a very good decision in this meta.
It doesn't even fly... let us hope we get a good 1 drop but that might simply break the deck.
Corey Beaumaister played 3 matches with PVDDR's list and went 3-0. The deck looks so solid and aggresive first match and then has exceptional sb games against real decks. He faced UW control i think, Blue Moon and Storm.
I just picked up spirits a couple of weeks ago after getting the new lord. Yesterday was my first FNM with the deck. I went 2-1 in matches with 3 rounds.
The following decks were represented...
Grixis Delver
RB Hollow One
Storm
Affinity
Tron
Soul Sisters
Grixis Control
Polluted Deltas are the only fetches I have at the moment. I plan on getting some Flooded Strands as soon as I can.
Round 1: Storm 2-1
G1: He went off on turn 3 with Baral, Chief of Compliance. I couldn't swarm in and beat down fast enough.
G2: He whiffed on the combo and I started with Vial and drew into more Lords
G3: He started with Goblin Electromancer, but I played Thalia. He also tried to Grapeshot it twice, but I Spell Quellered it both times.
Round 2: Affinity 2-1
G1: He dumped his hand on the board, I couldn't keep up at all. We both mulliganed and I kept a one lander.
G2: He mulled to five, but I opened Vial and Supreme Phantoms. He couldn't swing into me.
G3: He mulled again. I opened Nebelghast Herald and kept his board tapped down.
Round 3: RB Hollow One 1-2
G1: He dropped a Hollow One on turn 1, Flamewake Pheonix on turn 2, and a Gurmag Angler on Turn 4. I couldn't keep up with that.
G2: I countered the first 3 card draw spells he played (two Faithless Looting and a Goblin Lore). Then I used Mausoleum Wanderer to make him pay 6 to flashback one of the faithless looting. He couldn't really do anything to catch up after that.
G3: I opened a decent hand, but his Burning Inquiry stripped my hand of all my blue sources. I didn't draw another for the rest of the game...it felt pretty bad. lol
Overall I really like the deck so far. I also play Merfolk and the deck feels similar.
Agreed, this is exactly what this deck needs, another solid 1 drop. I was also thinking a surveil thing would be great. Also i've been on spectral procession for a while, got the idea from magic_aids on you tube, its pretty good. I haven't posted my list in a while so here it is:
I'd like to see a sort of Silvergill Adept-like Spirit. Maybe something like this...
Spectral Seer
W
Creature - Spirit
Flying
When you cast Spectral Seer, if you don't control a spirit, pay an additional 2. When Spectral Seer enters the battlefield, draw a card.
1/1
Went undefeated day 1 of GP Hong Kong with 5 wins and 3 draws with PV's Bant Spirits list almost card-for-card other than fetchlands. Deck is legit. Beat UB turns, Jeskai control, green tron, 2 UW control. Drew with 2 UW control and UR wizards.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Reasoning:
Thoughts?
Your reasoning is correct, however...
What replaces Worship that is not susceptible to or even more susceptible to the same logic, for the matches where Worship is amazing?
Amazing (little creature removal + little enchantment hate):
Humans
Burn
Mardu Pyro
UR Storm (not sure I would bring it in , as I prefer Negate + RiP, but they can't really deal with it if you did)
Death's Shadow
Valakut decks
Good, but not flawless against (fast + enchantment hate):
KCI (they do have enchantment removal, but we are often one swing from beating them, so all we need is for Worship to buy us 1-2 turns)
Affinity, despite Innkmoth creatures, because they can't hit us with infect quite as aggressively as Hardened Scales.
GWx Company
Bogles
Dredge/Dredgevine/Hollow One
Mediocre:
Hardened Scales because of super-powered Inkmoth Nexus + enchantment removal + super-powered Walking Ballista.
Bad (basically, all decks with lots of wrath/Terminus):
Tron
UW Control
Jeskai Control
Infect
Clearly, our best bet vs. the top 3 Artifact decks is Stony Silence, where Worship is more or less backup that makes it hard for them to address all the elements of our hate. However, we don't need Worship for those matches, IMHO and we don't want to over-board. However, as Inkmoth is a flyer and we are essentially ALL fliers, we can at least create a stalemate until we can go wide.
Options:
Engineered Explosives
Disenchant effects
Ratchet Bomb
Settle the Wreckage
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Have you test this manabase this days? I'm really curious about your results.
I need to be following this thread more. I have been building this deck, with excitement, just missing some fetch lands.
Once I get it fully running I plan on playing it regularly to see where I can get it. But thank all of you guys for shared your games and thought process. I want to see this deck hit 1st at a big event.
Major Note: 0 Rattlechains. Completely disruption + acceleration. It is pretty darn pared down and hard not to hit counter or a lord...
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Selfless Spirit
Instant (8)
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
Artifact (3)
3 Aether Vial
Land (22)
2 Botanical Sanctum
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Unified Will
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
4x Mutavault
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Flooded Strand
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Plains
2x Moorland Haunt
1x Horizon Canopy
[24 Core Creatures]
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Rattlechains
4x Selfless Spirit
4x Supreme Phantom
4x Drogskol Captain
4x Spell Queller
2x Phantasmal Image
2x Nebelgast Herald
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
[8 Spells]
4x Path to Exile
4x Aether Vial
3x Negate
3x Stony Silence
2x Damping Sphere
2x Worship
2x Rest in Peace
1x Remorseful Cleric
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Detention Sphere
So far in testing it has been pretty solid.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Maybe -1 Negate, -1 Stony, +2 Eidolon? Or maybe go extra saucy and play some number of Spirit of the Labyrinth?
What do you think of Dimir Infiltrator, and Vault of the Archangel in a black splash? Infiltrator has added evasion and transmute can come in handy when looking for a lord, and vault seems to add some extra when blocking/attacking, life link and death touch seem good late game, just block his cratures, sac selfless spirit, then profit. Also what is the consensus on Cathedral of War on UW it enters tapped but grants an instant +1/+1 turn 2 and later, maybe in a mix with haunts and mutavaults???
Sorry if this cards have been discussed, if so if any could point the way for the discussion I’ll be more than thankful!!
Feels like there has been a lot of moving back and forth between UW Vial and Bant CoCo, and this is the position that overcomes that dichotomy, not by being in the middle, but by embracing only what matters out of both. The build is in reality more aggressive than UW Vial by getting ride of 2/1 flyers for Hierarch + GoST + lord-centric package, but less susceptible to petering out in the mid to late game thanks to CoCo. Simultaneously, the deck is less susceptible to counter magic and can double-spell early and late. PVDDR not only beat Humans in the semis and finals (albeit, by playing carefully and drawing 4 PtE), but he finished the finals match vs. Humans in minutes.
His sideboard was adjusted to that approach very clearly: 0 Worship, 0 Damping Sphere, which are stall cards, followed up with 2 Dromoka's Command, 2 Thalia and 1 Gaddock Teeg. Teeg plus counterspells is very well-positioned against UW Control and Tron, Thalia manages Burn and Combo, and Dromoka's Command is good in aggro creature matches, Burn, and against opposing Worships. All of those are aggressive choices that add control, but can still attack your opponent, i.e. classic aggro-control/tempo.
3/3 RiP/Stony is a very good decision in this meta.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Corey Beaumaister played 3 matches with PVDDR's list and went 3-0. The deck looks so solid and aggresive first match and then has exceptional sb games against real decks. He faced UW control i think, Blue Moon and Storm.
The following decks were represented...
Grixis Delver
RB Hollow One
Storm
Affinity
Tron
Soul Sisters
Grixis Control
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
2 Nebelgast Herald
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Phantasmal Image
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Aether Vial
2 Midnight Haunting
2 Smuggler's Copter
Lands:
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Polluted Delta
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Mutavault
8 Island
5 Plains
4 Gut Shot
3 Spell Pierce
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Aegis of the Gods
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Echoing Truth
2 Nebelghast Herald
Polluted Deltas are the only fetches I have at the moment. I plan on getting some Flooded Strands as soon as I can.
Round 1: Storm 2-1
G1: He went off on turn 3 with Baral, Chief of Compliance. I couldn't swarm in and beat down fast enough.
G2: He whiffed on the combo and I started with Vial and drew into more Lords
G3: He started with Goblin Electromancer, but I played Thalia. He also tried to Grapeshot it twice, but I Spell Quellered it both times.
Round 2: Affinity 2-1
G1: He dumped his hand on the board, I couldn't keep up at all. We both mulliganed and I kept a one lander.
G2: He mulled to five, but I opened Vial and Supreme Phantoms. He couldn't swing into me.
G3: He mulled again. I opened Nebelghast Herald and kept his board tapped down.
Round 3: RB Hollow One 1-2
G1: He dropped a Hollow One on turn 1, Flamewake Pheonix on turn 2, and a Gurmag Angler on Turn 4. I couldn't keep up with that.
G2: I countered the first 3 card draw spells he played (two Faithless Looting and a Goblin Lore). Then I used Mausoleum Wanderer to make him pay 6 to flashback one of the faithless looting. He couldn't really do anything to catch up after that.
G3: I opened a decent hand, but his Burning Inquiry stripped my hand of all my blue sources. I didn't draw another for the rest of the game...it felt pretty bad. lol
Overall I really like the deck so far. I also play Merfolk and the deck feels similar.
Arena Username: ThunderGunZ1976
Modern:
UMerfolkU
UWGSpiritsUWG
RGoblinsR
Standard:
...whatever I can afford on Arena
4 aether vial
instants: 4
4 path to exile
sorceries: 2
2 spectral procession
creatures: 28
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 rattlechains
4 supreme phantom
4 selfless spirit
2 remorseful cleric
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
2 nebelgast herald
2 seachrome coast
4 flooded strand
1 polluted delta
1 scalding tarn
1 marsh flats
1 arid mesa
2 hallowed fountain
2 irrigated farmland
4 plains
1 island
1 cavern of souls
2 moorland haunt
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 eidolon of rhetoric
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 kataki, war's wage
2 blessed alliance
2 ceremonious rejection
2 echoing truth
1 pithing needle
1 grafdigger's cage
1 relic of progenitus
My mana base is ajusted for a better chance to cast procession on curve, but i consider the spell a 4 drop, and even then it has been pretty decent.
Spectral Seer
W
Creature - Spirit
Flying
When you cast Spectral Seer, if you don't control a spirit, pay an additional 2. When Spectral Seer enters the battlefield, draw a card.
1/1
Arena Username: ThunderGunZ1976
Modern:
UMerfolkU
UWGSpiritsUWG
RGoblinsR
Standard:
...whatever I can afford on Arena
Did not attend day 2 due to the typhoon.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.