Personally I have yet to see a 4 drop that works in UW spirits. The best 4 drop for spirits in the format is definitely Collect Company IMO and UW would need something on that level of power to make me play a 4 drop. I didn't even like Cryptic Command in our deck, which is almost like a time-walking cantrip at times. Even though Jace is a good card, I don't think he is right for Spirits.
Merriam's performance really showed the power this deck has with 8 lords compared to 4. He also had some great commentary on the disruptive elements of the deck. If you get a chance, check it out.
I'm a midrange player, but I think I'll be converting to spirits player after M19 because I love the disruptive and aggressive mix this deck produces. Cheers!
I’m a Merfolk player but now I’m very excitided with the new spirit lord.
I think Mutavault isnt good in the UW Spirit deck because the spirit lord dont give evasion to Mutavault, so the most part of the time, it will be a just a 3/3 creature.
I used to play with 3 Lingering Souls. This is way better than Mutavault after a player cast a sweeper because the tokens already have flying, the trigger Mausoleum and if you top deck this card, you get a army of 4 spirits!
The problem of playing with Lingering Souls is that you need to put more shock lands in the deck and is a Sorcery.
I also play with 2 Remands main deck because you can get a draw and help with combo matchups. If Remand is too slow I will play with 2 Spell Pierces.
I just want that the UW Spirits have a good away to draw cards. Do you have any suggestion?? I didnt like to play with that enchacement that give +1/+1 ( dont remember the name)
I agree with streex and I think the best card “advantage” is Lingering Souls for UW Spirits.
Blue cantrips arent the solution. It will be awsome if we have a spirit Silvergill!
Well, more one-drops are needed in a Favorable Winds build, but not in a Vial list. I read some players say they lack one-drops in Humans, but that's actually not an issue at all. Humans lack upgrades to what the deck already plays. In Spirits, the curve have been a bit too high for a long time, and now it's somewhat solved.
4 Vial + 4 Wanderer + 4 Path is totally fine. Humans and Merfolk don't run more one-drops and they're ok.
More than fresh ideas, I hope fresh cards will do the trick this time around. Remorseful Cleric and Supreme Phantom are enough to make this deck very good. The archetype disrupts fewer opposing strategies but protects itself way better than Humans. For once I'm curious to play the deck and let my Humans deck aside for a while.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I've been watching that video too with interest, I've also discussed about it with friends who have been playing with me for a long time now and some of them suggest a couple Mutavaults could actually provide value now.
Yesterday I've been bashed online by Vizier Combo and KCI, they have been too fast going off, and this caused me to think if there's a more aggressive configuration of the deck I can set up.
When I saw the video i recalled to my mind all of the reasons why Mutavault has been bad so far, but I could see some arguments in its favor too:
- we have got 8 lords now which are likely to stick to the ground against non-interactive decks. Those anti-magic strategies playing by ignoring what you do, especially pre sideboard, could actually take an extra big hit from Mutavault.
-later in the game, Mutavault acts as a little mana sinker to give a sense to extra lands we don't need, and that could push our race after being hit by a Verdict.
One of my nightmares right now is Jeskai landing Teferi after some proper board control. There mutavault could give that extra push to keep the powerful PW in check.
My experience with Mutavault dates back to March '17 when i got back into Magic and I approached the deck. I remember of one game where I have got my MV bolted getting manascrewed from there. I guess i wouldn't activate it now on T2 when facing Grixis, and I'd be able to make a better use of it, so yea, I'm curious to see how a couple of these work in the M19-upgraded deck.
Ross also decided to include 3x Geist. I think it's a meta call, if you re swimming in a pool of KCI, Tron, Jeskai, then it might be fine. I always recal to my mind that GoST isn't attacking any sooner than turn 4 in UW, and this why I'm not adding a couple to my sideboard. Maybe it's still good against combos and controls, I'll wait to hear from you guys.
Regarding the "run out of gas" problem - I always thought about playing Tamiyo, Field Researcher in the Bant Version. The card on its own is really great. And it does a lot for the Deck as well.
The problem here is that Tamiyo, Field Researcher is doing nothing on an empty board. It ticks up and that's it. Bad top deck.
4-1 again with bant last night losing to Jeskai control. I moved one geist to the side and main deck 1 remorseful with another in the side (and 1 RIP)
Nice, why don't you share your list and spend some words on the choices you've made?
Sure, don't know how to make the list show up as links but here's the deck I've been running:
4 path
4 wanderer
4 noble
4 supreme phantom
3 selfless
3 image
1 remorseful
3 rattlechains
4 drogskol
4 queller
4 CoCo
Side:
3 unified will
3 stony
2 RIP
2 finks
1 eidolon of rhetoric
2 pridemage
2 g o s t
I've 4-1 4 straight comp leagues with bant (and 1 for 1 with UW vial) but the disclaimer is that i had 2 geist maindeck for the first three leagues and moved them to the board as I really only wanted them for tron and UW(x). I have very little experience with UW vials but bant feels quite a bit more powerful from a perspective of just running people over whereas UW felt more disruptive but seemed less likely to give 'free' wins where you steamroll the opp. To bridge that gap of interactivity i added the third rattlechains and third selfless maindeck. Selfless is just phenomenal, particularly with flash, I'd like a fourth (four in my vial build)
Regarding coco v vial... vial comes down right away and is useful as early as turn 2, but obviously loses significant value thereafter whereas, in my opinion, with spirits needed a critical mass coco is just the superior card. It is the literal best topdeck, our source of CA and instant disruption. both builds offer great utlity lands, I miss the two mutavaults with bant, but miss gavony with UW.
-supreme phantom is great, 3 toughness matters a lot at 2 mana.
-remorseful: flashing in remorseful, saccing selfless and remorseful in response to living end was just intensely satisfying.
-I'd like a better card for the side than finks, but they took the rhox spots because they felt awful. Been considering putting two reflector mage,voice of resurgence to buy time and mess with control more in here or clique/obstructionist/archangel avacyn to interact more on the opps turn. Herald could fit the bill but creature matchups have felt pretty easy already.
Moved two spell pierce to the main (UW vial) and I've been impressed. Stomped KCI into the dirt g1 and g2 was a blow out after I brought in the extra hate.
I wasn't unhappy to see them vs ponza because they helped me develop and protect my land on turns 1-3.
Felt great against infect.
Feels great against mardu pyromancer
Feels great vs control
Feels great with anything running walkers.
Just really like it. I'll be jamming it for awhile and make sure it's not just a hot streak.
The only ones I have no doubt that they're a 4-of are the lords and Mausoleum Wanderer. They're the MVP's for obvious reasons (exception made for Phantasmal Image which I find 3-of fine).
Selfless Spirit and Rattlechains are indeed good but sometimes I felt that neither of them were sufficient for closing out games, specially when your opponent runs out of removal and keep dropping chump blockers.
Geist of Saint Traft never impressed me that much as prolly he would if I were running bant version. Not to mention that it sucks in multiples.
Same goes for Kira, Great Glass-Spinner although I'm almost always happy to see it when it shows but I feel that 1-of is enough with 3xSelfless Spirit and 3xRattlechains (one could say that KGGS acts as the 4th SS or RC).
With this trims I added 3xNebelgast Herald to solve the problem with chump blockers.
I do own 4-of of each card in there so if I feel I need to adjust, I'll do it.
The only thing I don't own right now and that I needed to test is Cavern of Souls - pretty expensive uh? - but in time I'll get my hands on it
Love the list main, and I agree with your 3-ofs given the change in the deck. With 4 additional cmc 2 LORDS, Rattlechains has a more strictly tech role than before.
Can you explain what you use for what in your sideboard? Some are obvious as to what you bring in, but what do you take out?
My sideboard is somewhat similar, but I do not run Kataki or Settle. I prefer 2 Worship, as it work more heavily in our favor and is harder to fight around. This is the only 4 mana card I would consider running in this build.
RE: KCI, doesn't Eidolon of Rhetoric protected by Kira or Drogskol or Rattlechains or Selfless just end them? It also seriously hinders Burn, Storm, Ad Naus, Control, etc.
Testing Hurkyl despite the fact that Stony is much better vs. Tron because Hurkyl is a better tempo card and doesn't interfere with our artifacts. Might end up with Stony just because it is better vs. Tron.
if this deck has a chance to take a step forward and enter the tier1 power level room, that's by having another 1cmc drop being printed.
I doubt the mana cost is what one should focus on. It's more about what the spirit does. If a new spirit increases the bad G1 MUs while being MD material, it can be a 2-drop. A 1-drop would be nice but what could Wizards print at 1 mana that really pulls its weight MD (that's a real question) ?
I believe it's still interesting to compare the deck to Merfolk even though it looks tired on paper. The deck has put up good results over time without the need of extra one-drops (or 1cmc spells) like Humans have. They even played 4-drops with more success than other tribes. It's all a matter of synergies in a given metagame.
Which leads me to this :
Well I'm not the most experienced with the deck but as far as I've played, I feel confortable by trimming one of each RC and SS for the Nebelghasts since they're some form of reactive threat by tapping opposing creatures.
I agree. Spirits have so many ways to protect their dudes + natural evasion, that there's a chance the best addition to the deck at this point is something very different from what the deck already does. Some talk about a Spirit Silvergil Adept, and that kind of card would be a 2-drop for sure, not a 1-drop. Wouldn't that be a good card for the deck anyway ?
I think you re making confusion between having 12x 1cmc spells and having 12x turn one drops, which is a huge difference.
Nope, I'm saying that even Humans who already has 12 1-drops see some of its pilots complain it's not enough. While it's actually not where the deck needs help. In comparison, I don't think an extra 1-drop in Spirits is the one way to improve the deck. Design space is wider than that.
When your opponent starts discard spell - bolt the 2cmc spirit your early game is a disaster and you have to cross you finger again that they won't add pressure or you'll never catch up.
You're describing the best start Jund may have (not a very popular deck right now btw), and that's the kind of opening hand they need to win some games. You have to accept that a fair creature-based deck loses to that kind of start sometimes. It's the case of any deck of the kind. To fight such MUs, you don't play an extra 1-drop, you rather play Collected Company or Lingering Souls, right ?
Another issue with this "not big enough" percentage of having a permanent to cast on T1 is that our deck isn't that good at taking mulligans. I'm not saying bad, I say not good enough to be solid.
This I agree with. It's not horrendous though, in comparison to some glass-canon combo decks like Cheerios or Reanimator.
It's what I dislike with Humans players adding 4-drops in their lists : they get more unplayable opening hands. This is also what makes Elvsih Visionary and Silvergil Adept so clutch in their respective tribes.
We would need acceleration and we need to race just as much humans do, or we die to fast combo decks (vizier druid, Kci, where wanderers aren't any helpful), or we get hit by verdicts while their life total is still high, ugins, or we simply get outspeeded.
I disagree, Spirits don't need more aggro stuff. Their natural evasion and the new lord are enough to make for a good beatdown plan. Combo decks can be fought with anti-combo cards (we already have Kataki & Eidolon).
Verdicts are no problem when you have access to 4 Selfless Spirits + 4 Spell Quellers.
I've been playing Humans for more than 2 years now, and the deck can lose to combos, control, ramp, affinity... but post-SB, everything is possible thanks to non-aggro cards. I think the beauty of the format right now is that a deck like Spirits can be as good as Humans, i.e strong enough to beat & be beat by anything.
If ever Tron & Valakut are the main offenders, Alpine Moon or similar effects can be splashed. Field of Ruin may be better than Mutavault, and so on.
I'm an optimistic man.
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So like i mentioned in my previous post regarding CoCo... I strongly believe that in modern right now you need some way to get free wins and that for spirits those options are CoCo and/or geist but I dont think geist is great right now. CoCo allows boards like this on turn 4.
edit... pic is cropped but theres a wanderer as well over there.
I gonna make an order to buy the new spirits. I don't know how many Marsh Flats are necessary to play a esper list. I suppose that buying 3 are the best option looking to the future. Should I buy some Darkslick Shores too?
So like i mentioned in my previous post regarding CoCo... I strongly believe that in modern right now you need some way to get free wins and that for spirits those options are CoCo and/or geist but I dont think geist is great right now. CoCo allows boards like this on turn 4.
edit... pic is cropped but theres a wanderer as well over there.
I agree. Although UW is more Mana consistent it also seems less explosive without CoCo plus vial is a worse draw after turn 1 or 2 than coco. I guess each version has it's tradeoffs though and I can see the appeal of UW.
I gonna make an order to buy the new spirits. I don't know how many Marsh Flats are necessary to play a esper list. I suppose that buying 3 are the best option looking to the future. Should I buy some Darkslick Shores too?
Isn't polluted delta better? Even with 4 lingering souls, we're heavier into blue than white. I'd rather be able to fetch basic island, flats is going to force you to shock for blue more. Plus there's the MUs that either run blood moon MB, or bring it in against this 3 color version. I think you want to side souls out against blood moon decks.
I wouldn't run more than a one of darkslick since black is such a light splash. Multiples aren't great and it's probably not even necessary if you run enough fetches and have one each of godless shrine and watery grave.
Modern FNM 3-0, discussion of matches in spoiler. was KCI, Blue Moon, and then Infect (UG).
The KCI game 1, I was on the draw and was able to spellqueller his first KCI. After that I just protected the queen and rode out damage for a turn or two. I had a second queller in hand for the next KCI. Game 2 was 4 rounds I think, as I was able to protect my disruption pieces and had an early game eidolon of rhetoric he had a hard time getting rid of.
+echoing truth
+eidolon of rhetoric
+Hurkyll's recall
+the two rest in peace
+kataki
-4 path to exile
-1 curious obsession
Match 2 was blue moon. I don't remember game 1 much. I did fire off a spell pierce on two bloodmoons game 1, which in hindsight I probably should have just let resolve as the only thing it was going to shut me off of was kira although to be fair it would be difficult to hold up spell pierce and deploy threats unless I hit another island or two if I let them resolve. Game 2 he drew a bunch of creatures and I had a grip full of 3 drops with 2 lands out for like 2-3 turns. He didn't present a fast enough clock and eventually the disruption punched through. The images aren't great considering how much interaction the deck runs (Bolts, snaps, cryptics, electrolyze all target) which is why I boarded them out. I kept 1 in so I could copy a protection piece or his snapcaster mage if i needed to hit my negate, spell pierce, or path in game 2 but going down the full 4 is probably fine.
-3 phantasmal image
+Nimble Obstructionist
+negate
+eidolon of rhetoric
match 3 was infect, 2-0. Game 1 nebelgast herald just locked down his team. Either my opponent lets the tap down happen to try and run me out of dudes (which increases my clock) or risks tempo plays like quell your spell and tap your dude off the herald trigger. Game 2 he boarded out the glistner elves and brought in invisble stalker!? on the play he goes t2 stalker, t3 wild defiance, and then starting swinging in for like 7-8 damage a turn. I always bring in Eidolon of Rhetoric and it's just so great in this match. This is always a fun match up, as I feel it can go either way and games end up being kind of a puzzle.
-4 phantasmal image (he can kill it with a pump spell)
-2 curious obsession (too slow)
+Eidolon of Rhetoric
+2 Settle the Wreckage
+2 Blessed Alliance
+Negate
Regarding recent conversations:
This is going to be a lengthy point, but I feel like making the deck too aggro is a mistake - because there are tribes that just do it better. Bant Spirits nut opener would be land hierarch, land GoST, land COCO into two lords swing for 9 (geist 4, exalted trigger 1, angel trigger 4). Yes you're representing alot of damage next turn, but there is a decent swath of the field that doesn't care about that start or can disrupt it quite handily. Most bant lists are just hyper aggro focused and the only tempo plays you have are maybe a rattlechains to protect a key spirit (which there have been suggestions on trimming), spell queller, and nebelgast herald (which I've seen suggestions to trim entirely). I don't think this is correct, we can't put out a clock like elves, merfolk, humans, allies, etc.
Mutavault discussions seem to be in the aggro mindset. Often if it's going to be important enough to block, I've already expended cards and mana to build up a lethal board anyway. There are games were it may be okay, but you miss out on ETB triggers that moorland haunt gives, buffs to the mutavault also buff the token, except the token has build in evasion. If you do run mutavault, I think running it without nebelgast herald is a mistake. Herald is what is going to open up those avenues of attack for it to punch through if you want it.
In regards to trimming nebelgast herald, it's my best card against humans aside from path and worship/settle out of the side. It will also buy you several turns against crap like hollow one if they are off to a slightly slower start, especially if they make you discard your paths or interaction. It's not great against KCI/storm/ad naus - sure. It's great against everything else. It can singlehandedly lock down an ulamog or wormcoil from tron, stop prime time kills from amulet or titanbreach/bloom, taps down mantis riders, tap down mana sources from elves during their upkeep, shuts off reliquary combo if you time it right, and more. There are just so many great targets in every match up but control.
I'm personally going to run two remorseful cleric in the side in place of RIP and then probably run 4 supreme phantoms for a bit in place of 2 phantasmal image and the curious obsessions. I'm not sure supreme phantom is a card I want 4 of yet, as I like the tempo style of the deck a lot. Making it more aggro isn't where I want to be personally. I just feel like there are other tribes that tout that banner higher.
While I agree that the deck could use card advantage (what deck doesn't), I don't know that I would be interested in running a spirit cantrip. I've removed elvish visonary entirely from elves (many of the recent lists have cut them) and merfolk has 8 draw spells (silvergill/spreading seas) that give redundancy. I think I'd rather a card draw spirit probably just be another tempo creature or something that locks up the board a bit. Something like a spirit vyrn wingmare would have been fantastic imho.
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Personally I have yet to see a 4 drop that works in UW spirits. The best 4 drop for spirits in the format is definitely Collect Company IMO and UW would need something on that level of power to make me play a 4 drop. I didn't even like Cryptic Command in our deck, which is almost like a time-walking cantrip at times. Even though Jace is a good card, I don't think he is right for Spirits.
http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37406_Ross-VS-Stevens-UW-Spirits-VS-Jeskai-Control.html
Merriam's performance really showed the power this deck has with 8 lords compared to 4. He also had some great commentary on the disruptive elements of the deck. If you get a chance, check it out.
I'm a midrange player, but I think I'll be converting to spirits player after M19 because I love the disruptive and aggressive mix this deck produces. Cheers!
UWRUWR MidrangeUWR
BUGSultai MidrangeBUG
BUGRTraverse MidrangeBUGR (currently brewing)
I think Mutavault isnt good in the UW Spirit deck because the spirit lord dont give evasion to Mutavault, so the most part of the time, it will be a just a 3/3 creature.
I used to play with 3 Lingering Souls. This is way better than Mutavault after a player cast a sweeper because the tokens already have flying, the trigger Mausoleum and if you top deck this card, you get a army of 4 spirits!
The problem of playing with Lingering Souls is that you need to put more shock lands in the deck and is a Sorcery.
I also play with 2 Remands main deck because you can get a draw and help with combo matchups. If Remand is too slow I will play with 2 Spell Pierces.
I just want that the UW Spirits have a good away to draw cards. Do you have any suggestion?? I didnt like to play with that enchacement that give +1/+1 ( dont remember the name)
Blue cantrips arent the solution. It will be awsome if we have a spirit Silvergill!
Anyone has test the Smmuglers Copter??
4 Vial + 4 Wanderer + 4 Path is totally fine. Humans and Merfolk don't run more one-drops and they're ok.
More than fresh ideas, I hope fresh cards will do the trick this time around. Remorseful Cleric and Supreme Phantom are enough to make this deck very good. The archetype disrupts fewer opposing strategies but protects itself way better than Humans. For once I'm curious to play the deck and let my Humans deck aside for a while.
Nice list
Is Damping Sphere working for you? I like the card, but apparently no one use it.
Are the Mutavaults helpful?
Sure, don't know how to make the list show up as links but here's the deck I've been running:
4 path
4 wanderer
4 noble
4 supreme phantom
3 selfless
3 image
1 remorseful
3 rattlechains
4 drogskol
4 queller
4 CoCo
Side:
3 unified will
3 stony
2 RIP
2 finks
1 eidolon of rhetoric
2 pridemage
2 g o s t
I've 4-1 4 straight comp leagues with bant (and 1 for 1 with UW vial) but the disclaimer is that i had 2 geist maindeck for the first three leagues and moved them to the board as I really only wanted them for tron and UW(x). I have very little experience with UW vials but bant feels quite a bit more powerful from a perspective of just running people over whereas UW felt more disruptive but seemed less likely to give 'free' wins where you steamroll the opp. To bridge that gap of interactivity i added the third rattlechains and third selfless maindeck. Selfless is just phenomenal, particularly with flash, I'd like a fourth (four in my vial build)
Regarding coco v vial... vial comes down right away and is useful as early as turn 2, but obviously loses significant value thereafter whereas, in my opinion, with spirits needed a critical mass coco is just the superior card. It is the literal best topdeck, our source of CA and instant disruption. both builds offer great utlity lands, I miss the two mutavaults with bant, but miss gavony with UW.
-supreme phantom is great, 3 toughness matters a lot at 2 mana.
-remorseful: flashing in remorseful, saccing selfless and remorseful in response to living end was just intensely satisfying.
-I'd like a better card for the side than finks, but they took the rhox spots because they felt awful. Been considering putting two reflector mage,voice of resurgence to buy time and mess with control more in here or clique/obstructionist/archangel avacyn to interact more on the opps turn. Herald could fit the bill but creature matchups have felt pretty easy already.
I wasn't unhappy to see them vs ponza because they helped me develop and protect my land on turns 1-3.
Felt great against infect.
Feels great against mardu pyromancer
Feels great vs control
Feels great with anything running walkers.
Just really like it. I'll be jamming it for awhile and make sure it's not just a hot streak.
Love the list main, and I agree with your 3-ofs given the change in the deck. With 4 additional cmc 2 LORDS, Rattlechains has a more strictly tech role than before.
Can you explain what you use for what in your sideboard? Some are obvious as to what you bring in, but what do you take out?
My sideboard is somewhat similar, but I do not run Kataki or Settle. I prefer 2 Worship, as it work more heavily in our favor and is harder to fight around. This is the only 4 mana card I would consider running in this build.
RE: KCI, doesn't Eidolon of Rhetoric protected by Kira or Drogskol or Rattlechains or Selfless just end them? It also seriously hinders Burn, Storm, Ad Naus, Control, etc.
Sideboard
For example, Affinity.
IN?:
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Fragmentize
2 Stony Silence
OUT?:
1 Kira
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 GoST
1 Remorseful Cleric
Tron
IN:
2 Damping Sphere
2 Stony
3 Negate
out?:
4 PtE
1 Kira
2 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Flooded Strand
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Mutavault
2 Island
1 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Cavern of Souls
Creatures 29
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Selfless Spirit
1 Remorseful Cleric
4 Supreme Phantom
3 Rattlechains
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Nebelgast Herald
4 Spell Queller
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
Artifacts 4
4 Aether Vial
2 Unified Will
2 Fragmentize
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Worship
2 Rest in Peace
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Azorius Charm
1 Engineered Explosives
Testing Hurkyl despite the fact that Stony is much better vs. Tron because Hurkyl is a better tempo card and doesn't interfere with our artifacts. Might end up with Stony just because it is better vs. Tron.
Modern
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I doubt the mana cost is what one should focus on. It's more about what the spirit does. If a new spirit increases the bad G1 MUs while being MD material, it can be a 2-drop. A 1-drop would be nice but what could Wizards print at 1 mana that really pulls its weight MD (that's a real question) ?
I believe it's still interesting to compare the deck to Merfolk even though it looks tired on paper. The deck has put up good results over time without the need of extra one-drops (or 1cmc spells) like Humans have. They even played 4-drops with more success than other tribes. It's all a matter of synergies in a given metagame.
Which leads me to this :
I agree. Spirits have so many ways to protect their dudes + natural evasion, that there's a chance the best addition to the deck at this point is something very different from what the deck already does. Some talk about a Spirit Silvergil Adept, and that kind of card would be a 2-drop for sure, not a 1-drop. Wouldn't that be a good card for the deck anyway ?
Nope, I'm saying that even Humans who already has 12 1-drops see some of its pilots complain it's not enough. While it's actually not where the deck needs help. In comparison, I don't think an extra 1-drop in Spirits is the one way to improve the deck. Design space is wider than that.
You're describing the best start Jund may have (not a very popular deck right now btw), and that's the kind of opening hand they need to win some games. You have to accept that a fair creature-based deck loses to that kind of start sometimes. It's the case of any deck of the kind. To fight such MUs, you don't play an extra 1-drop, you rather play Collected Company or Lingering Souls, right ?
This I agree with. It's not horrendous though, in comparison to some glass-canon combo decks like Cheerios or Reanimator.
It's what I dislike with Humans players adding 4-drops in their lists : they get more unplayable opening hands. This is also what makes Elvsih Visionary and Silvergil Adept so clutch in their respective tribes.
I disagree, Spirits don't need more aggro stuff. Their natural evasion and the new lord are enough to make for a good beatdown plan. Combo decks can be fought with anti-combo cards (we already have Kataki & Eidolon).
Verdicts are no problem when you have access to 4 Selfless Spirits + 4 Spell Quellers.
I've been playing Humans for more than 2 years now, and the deck can lose to combos, control, ramp, affinity... but post-SB, everything is possible thanks to non-aggro cards. I think the beauty of the format right now is that a deck like Spirits can be as good as Humans, i.e strong enough to beat & be beat by anything.
If ever Tron & Valakut are the main offenders, Alpine Moon or similar effects can be splashed. Field of Ruin may be better than Mutavault, and so on.
I'm an optimistic man.
edit... pic is cropped but theres a wanderer as well over there.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-wu-53805#online
Same mana base?
I agree. Although UW is more Mana consistent it also seems less explosive without CoCo plus vial is a worse draw after turn 1 or 2 than coco. I guess each version has it's tradeoffs though and I can see the appeal of UW.
Isn't polluted delta better? Even with 4 lingering souls, we're heavier into blue than white. I'd rather be able to fetch basic island, flats is going to force you to shock for blue more. Plus there's the MUs that either run blood moon MB, or bring it in against this 3 color version. I think you want to side souls out against blood moon decks.
I wouldn't run more than a one of darkslick since black is such a light splash. Multiples aren't great and it's probably not even necessary if you run enough fetches and have one each of godless shrine and watery grave.
Might just be me, but that land count looks a tad high.
2 hallowed fountain
2 cavern of souls
2 moorland haunt
3 seachrome coast
4 island
3 plains
4 aether vial
4 path to exile
2 spell pierce
2 curious obsession
4 rattlechains
4 selfless spirit
4 phantasmal image
4 spell queller
3 nebelgast herald
4 drogskol captain
1 kira, great-glass spinner
1 Kataki, War's wage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Worship
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
1 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
Modern FNM 3-0, discussion of matches in spoiler. was KCI, Blue Moon, and then Infect (UG).
The KCI game 1, I was on the draw and was able to spellqueller his first KCI. After that I just protected the queen and rode out damage for a turn or two. I had a second queller in hand for the next KCI. Game 2 was 4 rounds I think, as I was able to protect my disruption pieces and had an early game eidolon of rhetoric he had a hard time getting rid of.
+echoing truth
+eidolon of rhetoric
+Hurkyll's recall
+the two rest in peace
+kataki
-4 path to exile
-1 curious obsession
Match 2 was blue moon. I don't remember game 1 much. I did fire off a spell pierce on two bloodmoons game 1, which in hindsight I probably should have just let resolve as the only thing it was going to shut me off of was kira although to be fair it would be difficult to hold up spell pierce and deploy threats unless I hit another island or two if I let them resolve. Game 2 he drew a bunch of creatures and I had a grip full of 3 drops with 2 lands out for like 2-3 turns. He didn't present a fast enough clock and eventually the disruption punched through. The images aren't great considering how much interaction the deck runs (Bolts, snaps, cryptics, electrolyze all target) which is why I boarded them out. I kept 1 in so I could copy a protection piece or his snapcaster mage if i needed to hit my negate, spell pierce, or path in game 2 but going down the full 4 is probably fine.
-3 phantasmal image
+Nimble Obstructionist
+negate
+eidolon of rhetoric
match 3 was infect, 2-0. Game 1 nebelgast herald just locked down his team. Either my opponent lets the tap down happen to try and run me out of dudes (which increases my clock) or risks tempo plays like quell your spell and tap your dude off the herald trigger. Game 2 he boarded out the glistner elves and brought in invisble stalker!? on the play he goes t2 stalker, t3 wild defiance, and then starting swinging in for like 7-8 damage a turn. I always bring in Eidolon of Rhetoric and it's just so great in this match. This is always a fun match up, as I feel it can go either way and games end up being kind of a puzzle.
-4 phantasmal image (he can kill it with a pump spell)
-2 curious obsession (too slow)
+Eidolon of Rhetoric
+2 Settle the Wreckage
+2 Blessed Alliance
+Negate
Regarding recent conversations:
This is going to be a lengthy point, but I feel like making the deck too aggro is a mistake - because there are tribes that just do it better. Bant Spirits nut opener would be land hierarch, land GoST, land COCO into two lords swing for 9 (geist 4, exalted trigger 1, angel trigger 4). Yes you're representing alot of damage next turn, but there is a decent swath of the field that doesn't care about that start or can disrupt it quite handily. Most bant lists are just hyper aggro focused and the only tempo plays you have are maybe a rattlechains to protect a key spirit (which there have been suggestions on trimming), spell queller, and nebelgast herald (which I've seen suggestions to trim entirely). I don't think this is correct, we can't put out a clock like elves, merfolk, humans, allies, etc.
Mutavault discussions seem to be in the aggro mindset. Often if it's going to be important enough to block, I've already expended cards and mana to build up a lethal board anyway. There are games were it may be okay, but you miss out on ETB triggers that moorland haunt gives, buffs to the mutavault also buff the token, except the token has build in evasion. If you do run mutavault, I think running it without nebelgast herald is a mistake. Herald is what is going to open up those avenues of attack for it to punch through if you want it.
In regards to trimming nebelgast herald, it's my best card against humans aside from path and worship/settle out of the side. It will also buy you several turns against crap like hollow one if they are off to a slightly slower start, especially if they make you discard your paths or interaction. It's not great against KCI/storm/ad naus - sure. It's great against everything else. It can singlehandedly lock down an ulamog or wormcoil from tron, stop prime time kills from amulet or titanbreach/bloom, taps down mantis riders, tap down mana sources from elves during their upkeep, shuts off reliquary combo if you time it right, and more. There are just so many great targets in every match up but control.
I'm personally going to run two remorseful cleric in the side in place of RIP and then probably run 4 supreme phantoms for a bit in place of 2 phantasmal image and the curious obsessions. I'm not sure supreme phantom is a card I want 4 of yet, as I like the tempo style of the deck a lot. Making it more aggro isn't where I want to be personally. I just feel like there are other tribes that tout that banner higher.
While I agree that the deck could use card advantage (what deck doesn't), I don't know that I would be interested in running a spirit cantrip. I've removed elvish visonary entirely from elves (many of the recent lists have cut them) and merfolk has 8 draw spells (silvergill/spreading seas) that give redundancy. I think I'd rather a card draw spirit probably just be another tempo creature or something that locks up the board a bit. Something like a spirit vyrn wingmare would have been fantastic imho.