I am currently thinking of what an UW -splash green for eladamri's call ( 2 or 3 of) could give to this deck.
For example, it would represent extra copies of lords, kira, nebelgast herald, better accessibility to counterspell-like effects. It'd make the vial and rattlechains plan super interesting and it would turn the sideboard into a toolbox where you might fit all of the disruptive creatures like kataki, eidolon, spirit of the labyrinth, and some other good creature like eputy, teeg, ouphe and such.
Having access to permeating mass, nebelgast herald, and hanged executioner if that's the case, might also help us solving the Path to exile dilemma, that card you want to see twice in some games , one at most in some others.
I ve got no time now to build it online and test it, but I'll be giving this version (uw splash green) a shot in the future. Big attraction is also the new UG land which allows us to maximize on this effect while not losing colour sources.
I am currently thinking of what an UW -splash green for eladamri's call ( 2 or 3 of) could give to this deck.
For example, it would represent extra copies of lords, kira, nebelgast herald, better accessibility to counterspell-like effects. It'd make the vial and rattlechains plan super interesting and it would turn the sideboard into a toolbox where you might fit all of the disruptive creatures like kataki, eidolon, spirit of the labyrinth, and some other good creature like eputy, teeg, ouphe and such.
Having access to permeating mass, nebelgast herald, and hanged executioner if that's the case, might also help us solving the Path to exile dilemma, that card you want to see twice in some games , one at most in some others.
I ve got no time now to build it online and test it, but I'll be giving this version (uw splash green) a shot in the future. Big attraction is also the new UG land which allows us to maximize on this effect while not losing colour sources.
It's an interesting idea, but it puts pressure on available mana. If an Aether Vial is present, then it's no problem, but most actual toolbox decks run mana dorks to offset the mana inefficiency of most tutors. A full Bant build with Noble Hierarchs might benefit from splitting Eladamri's Call with Collected Company, but a tempo-oriented UW-style deck has precious little room for cards that don't immediately affect the board. Without a vial, there's no guarantee that you'd have a couple extra mana lying around at the end of your opponent's turn to cast your tutor, and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben basically can't coexist with it.
Yea, this is my concern indeed, finding the balance between the number of mana sources and the number of calls you want. Call can bee seen as a curve topper in this scenario, or an expensive way to get access to 1cmc drops, which at the moment are solely mausoleum wanderers ( since being strict on mana means you're not looking for sailor) or the singleton permeating mass if we wanna be spicy and we re facing creatures putting pressure that demand to be turned into 1/3s.
The reason why I'm thinking of an alternative version for bant is that to avoid the drawback of late game hierarchs and dekbuilding compromises in general, to try not to fully run into wrenn and sixes, lavadarts and such we already suffer enough, and at least gaining that extra selectivity that collected company doesn't guarantee ( although the two for one can't be replaced as an effect). This also allows to turn-3-play the best possible creature you have brought in after sideboard.
I have no idea if this thing has legs, I guess it's something worth exploring since so many times we ve been looking for selection with the ultimate goal of finding the right piece at the right time/right on time.
Yea, this is my concern indeed, finding the balance between the number of mana sources and the number of calls you want. Call can bee seen as a curve topper in this scenario, or an expensive way to get access to 1cmc drops, which at the moment are solely mausoleum wanderers ( since being strict on mana means you're not looking for sailor) or the singleton permeating mass if we wanna be spicy and we re facing creatures putting pressure that demand to be turned into 1/3s.
The reason why I'm thinking of an alternative version for bant is that to avoid the drawback of late game hierarchs and dekbuilding compromises in general, to try not to fully run into wrenn and sixes, lavadarts and such we already suffer enough, and at least gaining that extra selectivity that collected company doesn't guarantee ( although the two for one can't be replaced as an effect). This also allows to turn-3-play the best possible creature you have brought in after sideboard.
I have no idea if this thing has legs, I guess it's something worth exploring since so many times we ve been looking for selection with the ultimate goal of finding the right piece at the right time/right on time.
What if you ran Call as a sideboard card supported by Horizon lands and a Breeding Pool or Temple Garden in the main? If the main use is to grab sideboard creatures, then it can be run as additional copies in matchups where it matters the most.
Whenever i hear toolbox, i am fully excited. I love this style of deck ^^
I like the sideboard idea, but if the deck is build to toolbox around i guess we should have at least 2-3 silverbullets (Eidolon/Cleric/GosT...) for some MUs in the main to increase the value of this type of deckbuilding.
@streexit: have you played around with permeating mass? I only got one in my spirit box as a meme kind of thing ^^
I might be ok with running some extra copy of call in the side, but I guess I'll start testing with 2x in the main at least, because it can incidentally sinergize extremely well with vial, and grabbing chains to provide hexproof at the right time is so appealing. It has got huge versatility, you just don't want to get clogged up with heavy drops. (not sure if you're advicing to go for a MB micro green splash for a couple shocks and that's it. I'd pick that as a secondary plan in case my playtests with MB call end up failing miserably but it still shows some potential. I believe the question to answer is when do I want to cast call? the earliest you wanna do it, the more green sources are required to support it (13-14). this whole experiment is relying on Call being VERY good at supporting the tempo plan)
I like the idea of having some useful spirit in the main, but when i look up for interesting options, I end up a bit frustrated, because kataki, labyrinth, eidolon and some other are really specific and I'm not going as far as having them MB.
With this said, I'll give permeating mass and nebelgast heral a try in the main, cause they can be either super good or good/medium ( a friend of mine, a very skilled player, told me of an episode where the faced Mass in modern and that wasn't that easy to navigate through it. this is all i know about the card), so this makes the cut for a couple flex slots, in my opinion. Not sure about executioner, I'm more into the single kira maindeck.
As for GoST, I think eladamri's doens't solve the problem of the turn it starts attacking. you either hierarch into gost turn 2, or it's a slow walker. I see it as a side option at most against non creature decks, once again.
Let me share my first idea, it's just something written on paper and side is just brainstorming, so take it for what it is:
As a note, I never play givers, thalias nor mariners because of a personal choice. I normally go full fliers and flash, so you might want to jam in the current stuff that puts up results.
Collector Ouphe could also be reasonable, but it shuts off vials which are really synergic with calls.
Regarding curious obsessions, the more i play spirits (UW, esper, jeskai) the more I understand this tribe can only work under three lines of play: 1) card advantage and selection and tempo advantage ( 4 mana to put in play more than 4 mana total costs) through collected company 2) Tempoing out the opponent via thalias and deputies 3) having sources of card draw that provide extra resources at least once in two turns ( teferi time raveler draws once into 4 and it's absolutely insufficient as a draw engine). So whenever you are not going for the first two, you have to find an alternative way to draw repeatedly and Obsession has been the best for me so far ( better than any tool like visions, opt, light up the stage, teferi time raveler, hyerogliphic illumination)
Its an interesting take!
I am really excited to hear more about permeating mass. I have 1 in my meme-spirit box ready to be sleeved up! Id also recommend nikko-onna in the side for toolbox purposes. This card wins alone vs. Bogles and Ad Nauseam.
I just want to run a couple of options I've been thinking about for my own UW spirits list. The first is the idea of using Incubation // Incongruity as my main cantrip. Mostly it would be a Commune with Nature that I would be able to cast for U, but I can also throw a Temple Garden into my deck to drop a flying blocker or downgrade a threat if needed. Not finding lands hurts compared to other cantrips, but the flexibility is a huge draw.
My other idea comes from the amount that I've been flooding recently, but I was thinking about Geier Reach Sanitarium. The combo with Spirit of the Labyrinth is the first thing that comes to mind, but I frequently find myself wishing that I could throw away a fifth or sixth land or a late Aether Vial. Helping the opponent loot could be a problem, of course, which makes me hesitant here.
I ran Incubation for a while in bant. I liked ut. I used it to essentually find 'more lords'. Back then we had supremene phantom and drugskull captain. How ever, with empyrian eagle I am not sure it is requiered. I was thinking of replacing my gheist of saint traft anf maiby a 2 drop for empyrian eagle. When spirits winn it is either with having the right disruption peaces when you need to, curving out into lords or having some hail marry CoCo. The eagle will help with the second.
Hanged Executioner could also fit into that strategy, but there just is not enough room. Him + lords seems powerfull. But I would need to do some math, but if we have lords, is not another lord more damage then the one body?
I played the curios obsession version before. Sky tether looks good there with the exspention of the tallowwhisp. If you go tjat route I would recomend force of negation.
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Imo yes, as long as thing in the ice goes down to lower percentages and mono red goes to jesus. I'm excited to pack up esper again to deal with the metagame shifting towards midrange (lingering souls hey there), of jeskai if big mana takes the lead (burn and alpine moon)
Yes indeed. Will Stone Forge Mystic fit into spirits.
What would need to fit from a deck construction perspective. 4 two mana drops. Those would be Resteless Spirits or Rattlechains.
1 batterskull and 1 other equipment. Another batterskulls, sword of ice and fire for clock and card draw is good. After that sword of light and shadow or feast and famine. Prot black means you come around the black germ. Even Sinew and Steel could be cool to stop the mirror match.
I do not know. 6 cards is not that much. On the other hand it has no real synergi with the rest of the deck
Also, batterskull is not an equipment in most games you play it in. It is a 4/4 lifelink you cheat into play. The equipcost is five. In many ways it will give us inevedabilaty lategame. Early lifegain gets you there, and later on it can be equiped and bounce itself for more creatures. But that is a slow strategy and we are a fast deck.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
My old Bant list plays 3 Reflector Mages and 2 Remorseful Clerics in the flex spot, which I will experiment replacing with a combination of Deputy of Detentions and Unsettled Mariners. We'll see about the Mariners since they don't fly.
Here's my take on the Whole SFM thing. Since unfair decks will likely slow down a WHOLE lot after looting and Gaaks banning, most tempo/creature/control decks will shift for targeted POINT removal again. It's good against SFM, against tribal and tempo too. From THIS standpoint I actually think Rattlechains IS more relevant now than ever, a creature once overshadowed by the format's overwhelming speed will now likely be a 2 for 1 in most cases. NOT only that, but one of the things I love having acess to in control/combo matchups is instant-speed cards, mr. chains allow you to play on whatever speed you may like. Sure you can play SFM, it will be good at times, and it will make your leftover creatures better, sure. Or you can fly over all the other decks with consistent pressure, disruption and protection. I would bet much higher in a tempo U/W or Esper build right now than I would a Bant SFM one.
1- sky lion: Is great at pressuring, is great at grinding too and works WONDERS with Vial. May not be a spirit but sure benefits from all the flying. Works GREAT with Mausoleum and L.Souls to sneak 9-10 points of flying damage VERY early, just try it, you will love it.
2- Hanged boi. Much like Lion and L.Souls it is a 2 for 1 in most matchups. It IS the creature matchup KILLER and stacks very well the +1/+1 bonus from our lords.
3- Image is a pet card of mine, My local meta is full of big mana and eldrazi, so vialing in a Phantasmal image to copy a BIG DUDE, only to detention sphere or path it later is AWESOME. It IS a combat trick with vial, since you can vial before blockers and trade. You can also more consistently Hexproof-lock people with Drogskol Captain
4- Lingering Souls. No one doubts the power of this card, in a grindy and slower format this was KNOWN as the bane of midrange, even helped spawn abzan to completely shadow JUND for a while as the KING of midrange. this card WITHOUT spirit synergy is BONKERS, imagine with a lord on the field, the damage and the board and damage output stacks REALLY fast, up to the point where Phoenix (with looting) had to leave risen back Phoenixes to block 3/3 or 4/4 tokens.
I still don't know why, but we really haven't seen a black splash be viable (or at least popular), so I will try to advocate it here because it is my favorite deck to play and right now it IS better than ever. I ran it to consistent 4-1 and 5-0 at my LGS (which is quite darn competitive) and I would love to have some feedback. I'm still working on a manabase and sideboard
Drown in the loch looks like one of those flexible cards I was looking for to fight spells or creatures in Esper. Curious to see how impactful this is going to be in the format, I can see tron not being a good match for it, while it's going to be excellent against control, midrange, combo and red decks
Drown in the loch looks like one of those flexible cards I was looking for to fight spells or creatures in Esper. Curious to see how impactful this is going to be in the format, I can see tron not being a good match for it, while it's going to be excellent against control, midrange, combo and red decks
It's probably fine as long as there aren't many delve threats running around. Being dead against Gurmag Angler is otherwise a significant blind spot, as are decks that don't fill the graveyard on their own. It's also a nonbo with Rest in Peace, so it would be prudent to switch hate to Grafdigger's Cage.
That's correct but I think rip is way more impactfull in the games you need it than this spell. I'd probably stick to a grindy plan against midrange and would bring in rip just against the gym centered decks. Speaking of non bant versions, I think there's a 2 or 3 cards gap between the pile of cards that pressure and disrupt the board and the pile that disrupt the stack. I have been using Brutality to bridge it in the past with decent results but this one might as well do the trick now. Upsides would be to have a tempo positive of neutral card whereas Brutality was most of the times tempo negative.
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For example, it would represent extra copies of lords, kira, nebelgast herald, better accessibility to counterspell-like effects. It'd make the vial and rattlechains plan super interesting and it would turn the sideboard into a toolbox where you might fit all of the disruptive creatures like kataki, eidolon, spirit of the labyrinth, and some other good creature like eputy, teeg, ouphe and such.
Having access to permeating mass, nebelgast herald, and hanged executioner if that's the case, might also help us solving the Path to exile dilemma, that card you want to see twice in some games , one at most in some others.
I ve got no time now to build it online and test it, but I'll be giving this version (uw splash green) a shot in the future. Big attraction is also the new UG land which allows us to maximize on this effect while not losing colour sources.
It's an interesting idea, but it puts pressure on available mana. If an Aether Vial is present, then it's no problem, but most actual toolbox decks run mana dorks to offset the mana inefficiency of most tutors. A full Bant build with Noble Hierarchs might benefit from splitting Eladamri's Call with Collected Company, but a tempo-oriented UW-style deck has precious little room for cards that don't immediately affect the board. Without a vial, there's no guarantee that you'd have a couple extra mana lying around at the end of your opponent's turn to cast your tutor, and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben basically can't coexist with it.
The reason why I'm thinking of an alternative version for bant is that to avoid the drawback of late game hierarchs and dekbuilding compromises in general, to try not to fully run into wrenn and sixes, lavadarts and such we already suffer enough, and at least gaining that extra selectivity that collected company doesn't guarantee ( although the two for one can't be replaced as an effect). This also allows to turn-3-play the best possible creature you have brought in after sideboard.
I have no idea if this thing has legs, I guess it's something worth exploring since so many times we ve been looking for selection with the ultimate goal of finding the right piece at the right time/right on time.
What if you ran Call as a sideboard card supported by Horizon lands and a Breeding Pool or Temple Garden in the main? If the main use is to grab sideboard creatures, then it can be run as additional copies in matchups where it matters the most.
I like the sideboard idea, but if the deck is build to toolbox around i guess we should have at least 2-3 silverbullets (Eidolon/Cleric/GosT...) for some MUs in the main to increase the value of this type of deckbuilding.
@streexit: have you played around with permeating mass? I only got one in my spirit box as a meme kind of thing ^^
I like the idea of having some useful spirit in the main, but when i look up for interesting options, I end up a bit frustrated, because kataki, labyrinth, eidolon and some other are really specific and I'm not going as far as having them MB.
With this said, I'll give permeating mass and nebelgast heral a try in the main, cause they can be either super good or good/medium ( a friend of mine, a very skilled player, told me of an episode where the faced Mass in modern and that wasn't that easy to navigate through it. this is all i know about the card), so this makes the cut for a couple flex slots, in my opinion. Not sure about executioner, I'm more into the single kira maindeck.
As for GoST, I think eladamri's doens't solve the problem of the turn it starts attacking. you either hierarch into gost turn 2, or it's a slow walker. I see it as a side option at most against non creature decks, once again.
Let me share my first idea, it's just something written on paper and side is just brainstorming, so take it for what it is:
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Spectral Sailor
1 Permeating Mass
3 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
1 Nebelgast Herald
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Spells: 12
4 Aether Vial
3 Path to Exile
2 Curious Obsession
3 Eladamri's Call
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
3 Seachrome Coast
1 Botanical Sanctum
2 Waterlogged Grove
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Remorseful Cleric
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Azorius Herald
1 Hanged Executioner
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Ephara, God of the Polis
2 Rest in Peace
1 Damping Sphere
1 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Unified Will
As a note, I never play givers, thalias nor mariners because of a personal choice. I normally go full fliers and flash, so you might want to jam in the current stuff that puts up results.
Collector Ouphe could also be reasonable, but it shuts off vials which are really synergic with calls.
Regarding curious obsessions, the more i play spirits (UW, esper, jeskai) the more I understand this tribe can only work under three lines of play: 1) card advantage and selection and tempo advantage ( 4 mana to put in play more than 4 mana total costs) through collected company 2) Tempoing out the opponent via thalias and deputies 3) having sources of card draw that provide extra resources at least once in two turns ( teferi time raveler draws once into 4 and it's absolutely insufficient as a draw engine). So whenever you are not going for the first two, you have to find an alternative way to draw repeatedly and Obsession has been the best for me so far ( better than any tool like visions, opt, light up the stage, teferi time raveler, hyerogliphic illumination)
I am really excited to hear more about permeating mass. I have 1 in my meme-spirit box ready to be sleeved up! Id also recommend nikko-onna in the side for toolbox purposes. This card wins alone vs. Bogles and Ad Nauseam.
I ran Incubation for a while in bant. I liked ut. I used it to essentually find 'more lords'. Back then we had supremene phantom and drugskull captain. How ever, with empyrian eagle I am not sure it is requiered. I was thinking of replacing my gheist of saint traft anf maiby a 2 drop for empyrian eagle. When spirits winn it is either with having the right disruption peaces when you need to, curving out into lords or having some hail marry CoCo. The eagle will help with the second.
Hanged Executioner could also fit into that strategy, but there just is not enough room. Him + lords seems powerfull. But I would need to do some math, but if we have lords, is not another lord more damage then the one body?
I played the curios obsession version before. Sky tether looks good there with the exspention of the tallowwhisp. If you go tjat route I would recomend force of negation.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
What would need to fit from a deck construction perspective. 4 two mana drops. Those would be Resteless Spirits or Rattlechains.
1 batterskull and 1 other equipment. Another batterskulls, sword of ice and fire for clock and card draw is good. After that sword of light and shadow or feast and famine. Prot black means you come around the black germ. Even Sinew and Steel could be cool to stop the mirror match.
I do not know. 6 cards is not that much. On the other hand it has no real synergi with the rest of the deck
Also, batterskull is not an equipment in most games you play it in. It is a 4/4 lifelink you cheat into play. The equipcost is five. In many ways it will give us inevedabilaty lategame. Early lifegain gets you there, and later on it can be equiped and bounce itself for more creatures. But that is a slow strategy and we are a fast deck.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
Odd card choices that I suggest at least giving a try: Pride of the Clouds with Lingering Souls, Hanged Executioner and Phantasmal Image
1- sky lion: Is great at pressuring, is great at grinding too and works WONDERS with Vial. May not be a spirit but sure benefits from all the flying. Works GREAT with Mausoleum and L.Souls to sneak 9-10 points of flying damage VERY early, just try it, you will love it.
2- Hanged boi. Much like Lion and L.Souls it is a 2 for 1 in most matchups. It IS the creature matchup KILLER and stacks very well the +1/+1 bonus from our lords.
3- Image is a pet card of mine, My local meta is full of big mana and eldrazi, so vialing in a Phantasmal image to copy a BIG DUDE, only to detention sphere or path it later is AWESOME. It IS a combat trick with vial, since you can vial before blockers and trade. You can also more consistently Hexproof-lock people with Drogskol Captain
4- Lingering Souls. No one doubts the power of this card, in a grindy and slower format this was KNOWN as the bane of midrange, even helped spawn abzan to completely shadow JUND for a while as the KING of midrange. this card WITHOUT spirit synergy is BONKERS, imagine with a lord on the field, the damage and the board and damage output stacks REALLY fast, up to the point where Phoenix (with looting) had to leave risen back Phoenixes to block 3/3 or 4/4 tokens.
I still don't know why, but we really haven't seen a black splash be viable (or at least popular), so I will try to advocate it here because it is my favorite deck to play and right now it IS better than ever. I ran it to consistent 4-1 and 5-0 at my LGS (which is quite darn competitive) and I would love to have some feedback. I'm still working on a manabase and sideboard
4x Drogskol Captain
4x Spell Queller
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Aether Vial
4x Pride of the Clouds
4x drogskol captain
4x Supreme Phantom
4x Lingering Souls
2x Selfless spirit
2x phantasmal Image
2x Rattlechains
2x Deputy of Detention
1x Hanged Executioner
2x Fatal Push
2x Silent Clearing
2x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Seachrome Coast
1x Moorland Haunt
3x Countersquall
2x Remorseful Cleric
2x Stony Silence
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Deputy of Detention
2x Damping Sphere
1x Fatal Push
1x Winds of Abandon
2 Deputy of Detention
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Giver of Runes
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
3 Rattlechains
1 Soulherder
4 Spell Queller
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Supreme Phantom
3 Unsettled Mariner
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
2 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Waterlogged Grove
3 Damping Sphere
1 Deputy of Detention
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
It's probably fine as long as there aren't many delve threats running around. Being dead against Gurmag Angler is otherwise a significant blind spot, as are decks that don't fill the graveyard on their own. It's also a nonbo with Rest in Peace, so it would be prudent to switch hate to Grafdigger's Cage.