why no Selfless Spirit in the white splash? Flys, aggressive costing, come down a turn before smiter, not as big as smiter but still getting it in earlier than the removal type you want to rather than just before...seems legit.
I don't know if it is worth it... Sure, it comes untapped and has no drawbacks at first sight but I don't think that its ability is too relevant for our deck since we can run only 1 of it (it's legendary) and since we play 2/3 legendary creatures at the most.
Thanks for the compliment, The Fluff! I'm glad we don't have to convince people OGD is bad anymore.
And amicdeep, you're doing an incredible job of giving us an enormous amount of info and insights!
I've added a decklist for the white splash, with a little bit of info. I changed a small number of cards to make it a more basic list that hasn't been adapted for a meta yet.
I am taking a break now, and will work on card choices later; I accidentally clicked my tab away and lost everything I had written, so I had to write all of it again (and that's what I have just done).
And about Okina, I understand. I just really wanted it to be good but it sadly isn't. I'll write it into the suboptimal card choices later.
EDIT: Should I remove the casual list section? I don't think anyone (or almost no one) is interested in this. Stompy already is a very budget friendly deck, and creating a casual/budget version doesn't differ much at all from our basic list. (The biggest differences would be the lack of Horizon Canopy, Rhonas the Indomitable, and in the sideboard Thrun, the Last Troll and Kitchen Finks. You can definitely make a normal functioning build without any of these cards.)
Also, some of the cards in these lists are just plain bad: Vinelasher Kudzu, Safehold Elite, even Charging Badger is in there. I think it would be better to delete the entire section, so that it doesn't distract new players from the rest of the primer, and it makes the primer less cluttered since we already are putting a LOT of info on there.
As a primarily casual and extreme budget player, I think you can get rid of the "casual lists" section. I think the "sub-optimal" section already covers the cards that are worth mentioning. The only change I'd recommend is clearly calling out casual/budget alternatives so they are easy to locate, either with a symbol or a particular colored text in their description so they are easy to find. For example, Garruk's Companion as an alternate for Avatar of the Resolute, Prey Upon as an alternate for Dismember, maybe some of the better one drops as alternates for Kessig Prowler, etc. It may not be worth the effort to do that though.
The only thing I see that might be worth keeping is some form of counter build featuring Hardened Scales, but unless we have someone who has a tested build that we can add to the "alternate lists" section, I wouldn't worry about it.
I deleted it!
It's a lot of work to put symbols or colours for every budget option. I already wrote it in some of the most important descriptions, and I think finishing the primer in general is more important right now. I might do it when everything is done, but we'll have to see.
I'd love to write in a Hardened Scales build, as long as someone actually has a list that has been tested, isn't outdated and I can use. If no one comes forward with a list, I'm not going to add it since no one is playing it.
Also, your signature still links to the old primer, time to fix that
I just added all the white splash card choices! I didn't go deep into the bad card choices, and mostly copied amicdeep's comments on the cards (I'm pretty tired right now and don't know much about the splash myself). So if I didn't miss anything/don't have to edit anything, the white splash is done!
Do we have a nice black splash list we can use, or did it stop being played altogether?
I can add the double splash counter build instead of the pure black splash, if that's what is played more/a stronger build.
I'd like to have your opinions on this, as well as on the newly added section!
PS: I haven't written about Witchstalker and Great Sable Stag, and I know these cards were used in the past. What is your opinion on them now?
Hey guys, been away for a little bit. I wanted to let you know that I have been playing this deck (G/W version) for the last 6 weeks at my local and I have not had too much success. I have played against pretty much all of the tier decks and have won games, but lost to some fringe stuff that was very hard to side against. so far, I have beaten U/R Gifts Storm, Jund, several Tron variants, Affinity, Five color Humans, Boros and Merfolk. I also managed to top last week. Most of these decks are a race for ours, so I have had to change my mentality and play style. I realized that I had to be more strategic with this build as opposed to "turn everything sideways and damn the consequences". Probably the most difficult aspect of this deck is what to side in against those tier decks. I know amic had a SB guide somewhere in the old thread, but is there any way we could add it to the primer to help out those who have a hard time?
Hey, good to see you're back!
I was planning to add a 'how to sideboard' section under/after 'matchups', which I will work on after I'm done with all the splashes! I've already tried to put some info under the 'sideboard' part of 'card choices', but obviously not much in detail.
What about Root Maze in SB to fight faster aggro decks (Affinity) or slowing the other decks and force them to stay low on curve? Since we only need 2/3 lands to go off, I think that maybe it should be interesting to test it
Thanks again for the info!
I would love to continue working on the primer, but I won't be able to for about a week because of visiting family and such.
I'm sorry for the inconvenience! I'll still be able to read new messages on my phone, but when it comes to editing the primer I'd much rather do that on my computer.
Reminder for myself: Great Sable Stag, Witchstalker, counters list, Root Maze.
Keep up the good work, I love how active and positive everyone is in this thread!
Thanks for the advice. I played last night and ended up 2-2. I lost to Sun and Moon (Blood Mooon early is devastating!) and an Aetherworks Marvel deck with Emrakul. I ended up beating a mono green stompy(very close games) and Merfolk deck to finish out the night. I also learned a lot of valuable stuff about sideboarding and when to play certain cards. Here is a list of what I took away from last night:
1. Play Teeg as soon as you possibly can. I did not and it cost me a game.
2. Do not be afraid to go all out when the situation dictates it.
3. Do not worry about meta decks. They are beatable, and this deck can win consistently against them with smart play.
To wrap this up, I feel that with enough practice and some very minor tweaking, this deck can be great. I plan on taking this deck to GP Las Vegas this year and seeing how far it will take me. I will need any help you guys can give me leading up to June 2018, but I have a good feeling about this deck.
Why not running Hardened Scales? It would be perfect for this deck IMHO.
By the way it seems a half Mono G Devotion and a half Stompy and I think that's why it's not well performing, my suggestion is to transform this deck in a classic version of Stompy or going all in for the Mono G Devotion
Hey all! Hope you guys had an awesome Christmas! I was thinking about making weekly tournament reports, but I really have no experience in that area. What types of information would be useful to you guys? I figured that tracking this type of data would help make this deck better, and give you guys some insight into real world testing. It would also help me become a better pilot for this deck if I have several other people helping me analyze my play. Let me know what you guys think.
I'm happy with the list, but I'm thinking about some changes in the main:
-I'll try to go back to 8 1-drops cutting Kessig Prowler. 2 more creatures doesn't really improve my first turn (or I have the worst luck ever) and I don't really want to find them at topdeck. I've tested a sincle copy of Shaper's Sanctuary in the main for a while (inspired by some Infect lists) but, for sure, its place is the sideboard, so I'm going to try with a couple of Blossoming Defense, since it's only dead card in hand when I have no creatures, protects them from removal and pumps. There's nothing really special here, since a lot of people also tried this card and worked for them.
-I'm going to cut 1 Rancor to add 1 Nature's Way. Having another removal in the main seems great, and I'm not losing the trample on the way. Rancor is such a fantastic card, but sometimes I found with 2 or even 3 of them in hand and I didn't like it.
As for the sideboard, I have a list of maybe cards and some questions for you:
-Does Kitchen Finks do well against Burn and Zoo? I'm tired of running things like Life Goes On or Feed the Clan. Sure, they do their work great, but if I'm not facing Burn I'm not playing them (not the same for Pulse of Murasa, which really shines) and Burn is actually an OK matchup that I think that we can already race with the little help of Finks, which is by far a superior card to use in other matchups, such as Shadow, BGx midrange and Wrath decks. Do they work against Burn and Zoo or I'm wrong here? If I'd played them in my list, it would be as a 2of cutting Baloth and Feed the Clan.
-Shaper's Sanctuary deserves a place in the sideboard, but it's the Evolutionary Leap place. I'm in love with the second one, and I'm not really convinced what of the two is the best. This has already been discused, but what do you guys think? Heroic Intervention is also great, but only saves our creatures once and the matchups where I play these kind of cards are for sure not a race.
-Is Garruk Relentless a good SB card? I read in the old primer that it was great against control and midrange decks, but 4 cmc seems like a lot to me since in those matchups I'm adding Thrun and keeping Dungrove Elder and Rhonas. Maybe is it too greedy to run it in this build?
-Is Pithing Needle worth today in an average metagame or is it better to go in my last flex spot with something like Manglehorn or Eternal Witness
Heroic intervention goes in the same spot as leap and shapers. Personally I prefer it to either as it also stalls put boardwipes.
I disagree with this somewhat. I run 2x Heroic Intervention and 2x Shapers' Sanctuary in my sideboard. The former is best versus board wipes and the latter versus spot removal. When side boarding in, the former often replaces 2x Blossoming Defense and the latter typically replaces 2x Rancor (which is weak against instant speed spot removal).
My experiences with Nature's Way have not been positive. The deck operates on so few lands that two mana is often practically a whole turn, which can be a huge tempo-loss. I think pretty much everything that isn't a creature or a very impactful sideboard card needs to cost one mana.
This was the general consensus on Stompy for a long time, which is why Prey Upon was considered the only alternative to Dismember, even with so many other 2 CMC fight options that buffed and/or operated at instant speed. I haven't tried Nature's Way myself, so I can't comment beyond that.