Just coming back to try out the deck again, has anyone been trying out any Dungrove Elder builds recently? And is it generally agreed that if I'm going a no fetch route than the 1 drops are E1, Pelt, and Dryad?
Yes. If you are not going fetch route, E1, Pelt, and Dryad would be the way to go. I still play Dungrove in my build, it's not bad but its honestly the first card to get sided out in most matches where you just aren't fast enough.
when i played fetchless stompy i played E1 x 4, dryad x4 and kessig prowler x3. I prefer regen to trample as 2 counters on e1 is easier than 3 counters on pelt. but i could see 4 pelt, 4 dryad, 3 kessig as a preference. too many evolve creatures create clunky hands that dont do enough
I’m at least a little inclined to run wasteland viper instead of pelty if I’m not playing fetches. Its worst case is the same as the worst case of a narnam renegade (1/2 deathtouch, can evolve a 1/1 e1, or otherwise is a blocker that can trade with their biggest attacker), with the upside of being a basically-uncounterable combat trick tht can really pile on the damage on a trampler (making lethal damage 1 means the rest of the damage tramples).
Dungrove elder is not so good anymore against control like in the past because of terminus.
Dungrove dies to Verdict and Wrath just the same and doesn't come out soon enough for the mana difference to matter. Please elaborate what you mean. I definitely agree the game plan for control is different than it was pre terminus builds but Dungrove does the same thing.
Since the advent of the Narnam Renegade build, I've been running 2 Nature's Way instead of my usual 2 mainboard Dismember. However, since the spoilers, I've ordered up some Thrash//Threat and a single Cinder Glade (as a fetchable land to cast the Threat side on the off chance I get to 4 mana and have no good targets for Thrash).
So I ask the stompy thread - is this the best Rabid Bite variant we're likely to see? And is it the removal this deck wants (I like Nature's Way a lot, but instant speed is obviously a good thing)?
Went 2-1 last Friday with the below list. Won against UR Phoenix and Dredge, lost against Jund. My match against Jund did end in a 1-2, managed to steal a game using Aspect of Hydra on my Treetop Village. As for wins, I overwhelmed Dredge game one with a tidal wave of stompies, game 2, he overwhelmed me with dredges, game 3, I shut him down with one Rest in Peace. I got a lot of Bridgevine pieces from my UMA box but this is the main reason why I'm not going to build it. Not a fan of decks that get halted by one card until they find an answer.
I'm currently visiting family so I don't have most of my cards on me, but I'm definitely changing out the sideboard a bit. I never find myself in matchups where I desperately need Teeg in my main, so I'm probably going to swap him for some extra graveyard hate, prolly some Tormod's Crypt or Grafdigger's Cage. I might also swap out the Commands for some Knight of Autumn. In addition, one of the big issues I had was running out of things to play; I'm mulling over the idea of adding Ripjaw Raptor in main or Shapers' Sanctuary in the side. Also thinking of replacing Vines in main with Heroic Intervention because of board wipes.
Overall had a great time with Stompy and was easy enough to play even while jet lagged. Here's to my next FNM this week~
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
@richaworth
Why don't you use a single Stomping Ground instead? Is it budget reasons?
I also have no idea whether Thrash // Threat is the card we need, but to determine that we need people to test it. So please, try it out and let us know how it goes!
@jokerstyle00
Isn't 2 Temple Garden enough when you have 10 fetches and 2 Horizon Canopy? I think 4 Temples will make you lose unnecessary amounts of life. (Is it because of the 2 Flooded Strand?)
Secondly, why no 4th Dryad Militant? You're talking about adding extra grave hate, so why not add the last Dryad?
And lastly, I would advise against Ripjaw Raptor because of his cmc of 4, which is just too high for what he does. Also because of the mana cost, I would also put Heroic Intervention in the side instead of the main, but if you have a meta with a lot of board wipes then I understand your choice.
Dungrove elder is not so good anymore against control like in the past because of terminus.
Dungrove dies to Verdict and Wrath just the same and doesn't come out soon enough for the mana difference to matter. Please elaborate what you mean. I definitely agree the game plan for control is different than it was pre terminus builds but Dungrove does the same thing.
no it doesn't do the same. If you played dungrove in the past, it was a must answer. So they tapped out VS. You and the last damage I often do with haste and sometimes + rancor on it... Now it happened as example 3 times opt into terminus against me. If you have this experience, you will think the same. By the way, even in the past dungrove was not sure in our deck, why it should be after now 2% more worse maybe?
I use all 4 Gardens because of the 10 fetches, and also because all my interaction is white. I like having more than just two white mana available if I need it that won't ping me for using it. Life hasn't been too much of an issue for me. I only have 3 Militants and I'm too lazy to get another, plus from my experience I've haven't been put up against decks that often that're casting a ton of spells from the grave beyond Dredge and they're mainly creatures. Heroic prolly should go in side, but Vines of Vastwood has done nothing for me so far and I'd prefer to have something for two mana that does more than just pumping and hexproofing. I really do want more card draw because I find myself running out of things to play.
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
@richaworth
Why don't you use a single Stomping Ground instead? Is it budget reasons?
I also have no idea whether Thrash // Threat is the card we need, but to determine that we need people to test it. So please, try it out and let us know how it goes!
Honestly, it's because I don't want to pay life for my lands. I often find that much of our resilience as a deck comes from the lack of life loss to our own stuff; though the first time I have to mull because of it, it's probably gone.
That's also why I'm testing Thrash - if I'm running Dismember + fetches, I might as well play Naya Zoo and have access to Bolt and Path for the same life costs.
Dungrove elder is not so good anymore against control like in the past because of terminus.
Dungrove dies to Verdict and Wrath just the same and doesn't come out soon enough for the mana difference to matter. Please elaborate what you mean. I definitely agree the game plan for control is different than it was pre terminus builds but Dungrove does the same thing.
no it doesn't do the same. If you played dungrove in the past, it was a must answer. So they tapped out VS. You and the last damage I often do with haste and sometimes + rancor on it... Now it happened as example 3 times opt into terminus against me. If you have this experience, you will think the same. By the way, even in the past dungrove was not sure in our deck, why it should be after now 2% more worse maybe?
You're not wrong but I don't feel you are right either. I understand there are probably more niche scenarios where terminus complicates things but if the main reason you think Dungrove is not as good as it was is because the exact scenario of having both Strangleroot and your usually 1 of Dungrove. That just doesn't sound right. I understand your thought process but this isn't the hill Dungrove dies on especially with control not being as popular as it was.
I think I'd try and curve it and get some draw. Then, use Dryad Arbor and Aether Vial.
T1 Forest, Vial, vial in Dryad
T2 Forest, 3 mana on 2 + 1 drop via vial.
I was thinking of doing this with UG Merfolk but figured I'd share here. With Control back to playability, Vial's just better.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Fish
U/W Control
U/B Control
U/B Control Mill, U/R Ascension Mill, BUG Mill
G Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Eldrazi Aggro
Junkie Doran
U/W Ephara Flash
Splendid Dredge
I would have to disagree with you on using Aether Vial (and Dryad Arbor) in Stompy.
Playing Vial means playing either less creatures or less utility spells, it doesn't do damage by itself, and the boost it gives takes away from cards in your hand that actually do damage, and we really need as many creatures/pump as possible in our opening hand.
It also doesn't add any devotion, and Vial being destroyed means a significant tempo loss. Dryad Arbor also doesn't add any devotion, you can't tap it when it comes into play (which is a big tempo loss if you don't play her with Vial), and both Vial and Dryad are absolutely awful topdecks, of which we want as little as possible since we want to apply pressure as much as possible. Topdecking Experiment One/Pelt Collector (but mostly E-One) already is as bad as it can get, and I personally wouldn't want to have 8 more cards I don't want to draw into.
I love the idea. But without devotion which I don't use anyway. Think about dryad arbor together with dungrove elder. Turn 2,3 creatures, 1 of them 4/4 hexproof seems really funny. Arbor is a forest too. If you use some fetches, you van tutor your creature too
I faced the following Decks:
League 1:
Burn 1-2
Amulet Titan 2-1
UB Mill 2-0
GW Midrange 2-0
Vannifar Pod 2-0
League 2:
RW Land Destruction 2-1
Scapeshift 2-1
Burn 2-1
Spirits 1-2
Titan Scapeshift 2-1
League 3:
Dredge 2-0
Burn 2-1
Hardened Scales 1-2
UW Death and Taxes 2-1
Storm 2-1
The GW Midrange list was kind of Strange playing Stonehorn Dignitary trying to flicker it. If you have any questions about specific matches feel free to ask, as it would be too many to describe all of them here. From my experience with the deck so far (I am playing the deck way longer than just these leagues):
Storm and Dredge feel like really good matchups.
Burn is probably 50/50.
The Scapeshift decks are a pure race, and it feels like they are slightly favoured. This matchup always makes me feel kinda uncomfortable.
Amulet titan feels way better, as you can use Damping Spheres to buy yourself some time. But it is still tough.
Spirits also alway feels winnable but I am not 100% sure there.
Against Hardened Scales I feel like I havent played enough matches against it to judge the matchup. The other decks are all rather exotical therefore I'll leave them out.
First of all, congratulations on the results!
How did playing Pelt Collector and Experiment One go? Does it feel good to play both in a non-fetch list? Do you prefer one over the other?
How are the sideboard cards? You used a lot of singletons, are there some you were disappointed in/surprised with? Cards that you feel were better than others (Life Goes On vs Feed the Clan, Relic of Progenitus vs Grafdigger's Cage)?
Other general comments about specific matchups/cards you'd like to share?
Pelt Collector and Experiment One work perfectly fine next to each other. But I usually end up boarding at least one Pelt Collector out. I personally prefer Experiment One. But opponents usually tend to remove the Pelt Collector first if they have the choice between both. Even before the regeneration clause gets relevant. So in my own opinion the experiment is the stronger one for sure, but opponents seem to judge it differently.
The difference between Feed the Clan and Life Goes on is something I cannot judge at the moment. The reason I plaz them both as one of is because I want to find out which one feels better. But for a final decission I need more games.
Grafdiggers is there as a singleton as it can work next to relic, while also occasionally annoying coco decks.
The only other thing I can add is that I would for sure replace the Hashep Oasis with Horizon Canopy if I had the budget. And that I'll probably cut a Pelt Collector for a Wasteland Viper to have an additional pseudo removal spell.
Pelt Collector and Experiment One work perfectly fine next to each other. But I usually end up boarding at least one Pelt Collector out. I personally prefer Experiment One. But opponents usually tend to remove the Pelt Collector first if thet have the choice between both, even before the regeneration clause gets relevant. So in my own opinion the experiment is the stronger one for sure, but opponents seem to judge it different.
The difference between Feed the Clan and Life Goes on is something I cannot judge at the moment. The reason I plaz them both as one of is because I want to find out which one feels better. But for a final decission I need more games.
Grafdiggers is there as a singleton as it can work next to relic, while also occasionally annoying coco decks.
The only other thing I can add is that I would for sure replace the Hashep Oasis with Horizon Canopy if I had the budget. And that I'll probably cut a Pelt Collector for a Wasteland Viper to have an additional pseudo removal spell.
For the decision between Feed the Clan and Life Goes On, I've had more success with Life Goes On because it's just easier to find situations where creatures die. The extra 2 life isn't much of a difference in most scenarios, and being one mana cheaper is relevant in Stompy due to the low land count and desire to keep our CMCs and curve low.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
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Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Dungrove dies to Verdict and Wrath just the same and doesn't come out soon enough for the mana difference to matter. Please elaborate what you mean. I definitely agree the game plan for control is different than it was pre terminus builds but Dungrove does the same thing.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
So I ask the stompy thread - is this the best Rabid Bite variant we're likely to see? And is it the removal this deck wants (I like Nature's Way a lot, but instant speed is obviously a good thing)?
List for reference/general critique:
8 Forest
1 Cinder Glade
2 Treetop Village
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Pelt Collector
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Aspect of Hydra
3 Rancor
2 Thrash//Threat
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Choke
1 Damping Sphere
1 Dismember
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Heroic Intervention
3 Life Goes On
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Oxidize
2 Unravel the Aether
4 Avatar of the Resolute
3 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
1 Pelt Collector
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Strangleroot Geist
Lands
2 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Temple Garden
2 Treetop Village
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Aspect of Hydra
2 Blossoming Defense
2 Path to Exile
3 Rancor
2 Vines of Vastwood
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Life Goes On
2 Natural State
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
Thoughts on future deck changes:
I'm currently visiting family so I don't have most of my cards on me, but I'm definitely changing out the sideboard a bit. I never find myself in matchups where I desperately need Teeg in my main, so I'm probably going to swap him for some extra graveyard hate, prolly some Tormod's Crypt or Grafdigger's Cage. I might also swap out the Commands for some Knight of Autumn. In addition, one of the big issues I had was running out of things to play; I'm mulling over the idea of adding Ripjaw Raptor in main or Shapers' Sanctuary in the side. Also thinking of replacing Vines in main with Heroic Intervention because of board wipes.
Overall had a great time with Stompy and was easy enough to play even while jet lagged. Here's to my next FNM this week~
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Why don't you use a single Stomping Ground instead? Is it budget reasons?
I also have no idea whether Thrash // Threat is the card we need, but to determine that we need people to test it. So please, try it out and let us know how it goes!
@jokerstyle00
Isn't 2 Temple Garden enough when you have 10 fetches and 2 Horizon Canopy? I think 4 Temples will make you lose unnecessary amounts of life. (Is it because of the 2 Flooded Strand?)
Secondly, why no 4th Dryad Militant? You're talking about adding extra grave hate, so why not add the last Dryad?
And lastly, I would advise against Ripjaw Raptor because of his cmc of 4, which is just too high for what he does. Also because of the mana cost, I would also put Heroic Intervention in the side instead of the main, but if you have a meta with a lot of board wipes then I understand your choice.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Honestly, it's because I don't want to pay life for my lands. I often find that much of our resilience as a deck comes from the lack of life loss to our own stuff; though the first time I have to mull because of it, it's probably gone.
That's also why I'm testing Thrash - if I'm running Dismember + fetches, I might as well play Naya Zoo and have access to Bolt and Path for the same life costs.
You're not wrong but I don't feel you are right either. I understand there are probably more niche scenarios where terminus complicates things but if the main reason you think Dungrove is not as good as it was is because the exact scenario of having both Strangleroot and your usually 1 of Dungrove. That just doesn't sound right. I understand your thought process but this isn't the hill Dungrove dies on especially with control not being as popular as it was.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
T1 Forest, Vial, vial in Dryad
T2 Forest, 3 mana on 2 + 1 drop via vial.
I was thinking of doing this with UG Merfolk but figured I'd share here. With Control back to playability, Vial's just better.
Fish
U/W Control
U/B Control
U/B Control Mill, U/R Ascension Mill, BUG Mill
G Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Eldrazi Aggro
Junkie Doran
U/W Ephara Flash
Splendid Dredge
Playing Vial means playing either less creatures or less utility spells, it doesn't do damage by itself, and the boost it gives takes away from cards in your hand that actually do damage, and we really need as many creatures/pump as possible in our opening hand.
It also doesn't add any devotion, and Vial being destroyed means a significant tempo loss.
Dryad Arbor also doesn't add any devotion, you can't tap it when it comes into play (which is a big tempo loss if you don't play her with Vial), and both Vial and Dryad are absolutely awful topdecks, of which we want as little as possible since we want to apply pressure as much as possible. Topdecking Experiment One/Pelt Collector (but mostly E-One) already is as bad as it can get, and I personally wouldn't want to have 8 more cards I don't want to draw into.
I played the following list:
17x Forest
2x Hashep Oasis
2x Treetop Village
Spells:
3x Aspect of Hydra
4x Rancor
4x Vines of Vastwood
2x Dismember
4x Experiment One
3x Pelt Collector
4x Dryad Militant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Avatar of the Resolute
4x Strangleroot Geist
1x Leatherback Baloth
4x Steel Leaf Champion
1x Life Goes On
1x Feed the Clan
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Unravel the Aether
1x Pulse of Murasa
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Damping Sphere
1x Spellskite
I faced the following Decks:
League 1:
Burn 1-2
Amulet Titan 2-1
UB Mill 2-0
GW Midrange 2-0
Vannifar Pod 2-0
League 2:
RW Land Destruction 2-1
Scapeshift 2-1
Burn 2-1
Spirits 1-2
Titan Scapeshift 2-1
League 3:
Dredge 2-0
Burn 2-1
Hardened Scales 1-2
UW Death and Taxes 2-1
Storm 2-1
The GW Midrange list was kind of Strange playing Stonehorn Dignitary trying to flicker it. If you have any questions about specific matches feel free to ask, as it would be too many to describe all of them here. From my experience with the deck so far (I am playing the deck way longer than just these leagues):
Storm and Dredge feel like really good matchups.
Burn is probably 50/50.
The Scapeshift decks are a pure race, and it feels like they are slightly favoured. This matchup always makes me feel kinda uncomfortable.
Amulet titan feels way better, as you can use Damping Spheres to buy yourself some time. But it is still tough.
Spirits also alway feels winnable but I am not 100% sure there.
Against Hardened Scales I feel like I havent played enough matches against it to judge the matchup. The other decks are all rather exotical therefore I'll leave them out.
How did playing Pelt Collector and Experiment One go? Does it feel good to play both in a non-fetch list? Do you prefer one over the other?
How are the sideboard cards? You used a lot of singletons, are there some you were disappointed in/surprised with? Cards that you feel were better than others (Life Goes On vs Feed the Clan, Relic of Progenitus vs Grafdigger's Cage)?
Other general comments about specific matchups/cards you'd like to share?
The difference between Feed the Clan and Life Goes on is something I cannot judge at the moment. The reason I plaz them both as one of is because I want to find out which one feels better. But for a final decission I need more games.
Grafdiggers is there as a singleton as it can work next to relic, while also occasionally annoying coco decks.
The only other thing I can add is that I would for sure replace the Hashep Oasis with Horizon Canopy if I had the budget. And that I'll probably cut a Pelt Collector for a Wasteland Viper to have an additional pseudo removal spell.
For the decision between Feed the Clan and Life Goes On, I've had more success with Life Goes On because it's just easier to find situations where creatures die. The extra 2 life isn't much of a difference in most scenarios, and being one mana cheaper is relevant in Stompy due to the low land count and desire to keep our CMCs and curve low.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."