I have just edited the primer:
I added fetches, Narnam Renegade and Steel Leaf Champion to the basic list, and added info on Steel Leaf Champion. (Also changed the place and info on some card choices due to recent updates.)
I have a problem though: because of the 12 1-drops, I had to cut noncreature spells. I chose to cut 2 Aspect of Hydra, but I don't know if that is a correct choice. I was thinking of cutting 1 Aspect and 1 Rancor, but I honestly don't know. Can I get your opinions on this?
Also, has Damping Sphere been tested enough for me to write something about it? Does it need to be added to the side of the basic list? (I assume so.)
Please let me know if I need to change anything else!
The reason why I didn't put in fetches 9 and 10 is because of Horizon Canopy.
I was thinking about the comparison between Vines of Vastwood and Blossoming Defense. Obviously, Vines has decreased in power a bit since Twin and Infect have both died, but the 2 extra power makes me unsure about switching it with Defense. The mana reduction for the pump in Defense seems really good, but I haven't tested it myself.
I wonder if the greater fear isn’t the return of Infect... but the rise of Stompy. In the mirror, Vines counters Rancor, Aspect, Blossoming, and ... Vines!!
I changed the 4 Vines of Vastwood in the basic list to 2/2 with Blossoming Defense, even though I'm not completely sure about it. (Also edited the description of Defense.)
The 'countering something that targets our opponent's creature' might not be as relevant as it used to be, and the 1 mana needed for Defense might make it attractive, but what I'm mostly thinking about is when we run out of cards while attacking, we (most of the time) only have pump spells in our hand, and to be able to pump for 4 instead of 2 might make a big difference when pushing for the last bits of damage.
Hey everyone, I've started playing stompy again after a few years hiatus. I've been playing a lot online recently and have changed from my original configuration quite a lot. Mainly, I've removed every Dungrove Elder and all but one Leatherback Baloth. Since then I've been flip flopping between 2 Kalonian Tusker vs 2 Scavenging Ooze in the maindeck. The three toughness on Kalonian Tusker has been relevant in a lot of my matchups, particularly against Burn. It is also the more aggressive card while playing on curve and synergizes better with Aspect of Hydra. That said Scavenging Ooze has the potential to take over the game while providing a good mana sink for the mid to late game. Scavenging Ooze while usually being a much better topdeck is also a good hoser against a lot of different strategies in modern.
I've also been trying out Ghalta, Primal Hunger as a singleton in the main but have since switched it to the sideboard. From my previous experience stompys weakness were decks that either had excessive removal and wrath effects or creatures that could clog up the ground and profitably trade with ours. That said, I've been grinding against a lot of midrange and control variants in the ques on magic online and have been doing fairly well. My main question is what are the difficult matchups for stompy now that we have access to tools like Steel Leaf Champion, and Rhonas the Indomitable. Also What are your thoughts on Shapers' Sanctuary? Personally this card has won me games in against said control and midrange builds, on average drawing 3 - 4 cards before the game ends.
Sure, no problem. My original build from before had three copies of Dungrove Elder with only the two Scavenging Ooze main. I was also playing Blossoming Defense in leau of Aspect of Hydra because my lgs meta was predominantly Jund and Jeskia control at the time. When I picked up Stompy again I was playing twenty lands with two Kalonian Tusker, and Ghalta, Primal Hunger instead Scavenging Ooze which was one main and two of in my sideboard at the time. However Ghalta seemed very hit of miss, it was either the best or worst card in my deck. So I consigned it to the sideboard, meanwhile I was boarding into Scavenging Ooze in a lot of my matchups. So I just decided to remove Tusker and board Ghalta. I haven't had the chance to really test Heroic Intervention yet but I may also change that to a Thrun, the Last Troll. I'm not sure how much, if any of this is correct, especially in the sideboard, I have considered the need for Pithing Needle but I like being able to hit mana sources and the two cmc is relivent when playing against Chalice of the Void decks, like Eldrazi-Tron.
Hey, thanks for the constructive feedback, I really do appreciate it!
Anyway my thoughts on treetop village, are that it's a good card but can be very awkward when drawn in multiples within the first few turns. Would you recommend keeping the 21 land count or upping it to 22 with the extra treetop? So far in my games I've noted multiple occasions where I've drawn Rhonas the Indomitable alongside Leatherback Baloth. What is the consensus on Rhonas currently, is he to be prioritized as a game ending threat, worth the loss in devotion, creature clause, and potential for a redundant and dead draw in multiples? I could see testing Blossoming Defense to come to my own opinions, it is more mana efficient and gets around Spellskite. I am a little leery of the loss of damage and practical application of Vines of Vastwood, I recall more than a few games where the four damage from Vines was exactly lethal and won me games where I would not have before. What is your opinion on Defense, does the mana saved allow you to commit more to the board earlier and therefore allow the establishment a bigger board presence?
My sideboard is definitely in a work in progress, so I appreciate your input with that too. The Natural State is for Affinity first and foremost, since I'm not playing Pithing Needle I felt the need for addition removal towards their man-lands. I also bring it in against decks I suspect play Spellskite or Ensnaring Bridge. Going down to just two copies and utilizing the slot for something else, is definitely something that I had considered. Unravel the Aether is there for decks playing Welding Jar or Wurmcoil Engine, as for Reclamation Sage, I wanted a creature so as not dilute my deck when sideboarding. I had tested Manglehorn and Thrashing Brontodon, but rec sage seemed to preform the best out of those three. I do have a single Phyrexian Revoker to name critical things like Ezuri, Renigade Leader and Aether Vial but maybe I need more than one.
I haven't tested Damping Sphere in Stompy but I had thought our matchups against both Tron and Storm were reasonable. That said, my matchup experience against Tron was when I was playing three copies of Dungrove Elder in my first iteration of Stompy a few years ago. I found that Karn was just an expensive sorcery speed removal, and only really cared about Wurmcoil Engine, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, or an early Oblivion Stone. I was usually able to goldfish my opponent by turn four because of the lack of interaction, and race the ugin or o-stone. Though now that Walking Balista and splash colors for removal like Fatal Push and Collective Brutality have been added this has probably heavily effected this matchup. What is your experience on this? Storm hate I'm not convinced we need though, isn't Drydad Militant and to a lesser extent Scavenging Ooze coupled with our aggression enough? I'm curious to see if something has changed here too.
Bow of Nylea is primarily a hedge for creature based matchups were board stalls generally occur, like merfolk or goyf decks. The text 'attacking creatures you control have deathtouch' is crucial and combines especially nicely with our creatures that have trample. If I was to remove it, is there perhaps a different card you could suggest to provide a similar role? Perhaps an additional Ghalta, Primal Hunger or Scavenging Ooze?
I have not tried fight spells, excluding Ulvenwald Tracker in stompy yet. I should test Nature's Way instead of the third Dismember because your right sometimes the life loss can be very relevant if you draw it in multiples. Are you ever impacted by loss of instant speed removal? Or blown out by removal in matchups were you need this effect? Finally are those risks worth the four life you would normally pay for Dismember? I was under the impression that Dismember was the premier removal, then if you maxed four copies, you would add additional spells like Nature's Way.
I've bought and sold Kitchen Finks in the past but don't currently have access to them, Pulse of Murasa, however, is an attractive option. I have always wanted to play a singleton as it is more versatile and would improve mathups against more midrange builds. I'll test it out, do you believe I should remove a Life Goes On or Feed the Clan for this?
Personally, I will have to disagree with you on the utility Birds of Paradise. I remember reading an article on the optimal use of mana dorks, from what I recall to draw a dork in your opener you need to devote a minimum of five slots to them. You also want to lean heavier towards three and four mana spells to facilitate your mana acceleration. I'm guessing somewhere between seven to ten, three cmc spells. I looked up a Bant Knightfall list on mtg goldfish, they had listed eight mana dorks, nineteen cards of three cmc and four coco's. I think if I was to add mana dorks it would change the layout of classic stompy and I would devote more slots towards powerfull three drops and add Collected Company. My knowledge is rusty at best though, is there anyone that knows more about the statistics behind this, if so what is your opinion or take on this?
Gigantosaurus is probably not good in our deck, but its nice to see some big green creatures with a very restricted mana cost. Makes me hope for some fun stuff for this deck in the future.
So I've been brewing and doing a little play-testing with Stompy again (I just have too much fun) and I've been thinking of taking it to some events. I'm curious about everyone's opinion about running Dryad Militant in the main? I know it's been found in basically everyone's list and I have been running 4 since I built the deck. But after testing with a storm player he keeps telling me that while Dryad is a good card he thinks it does best in the sideboard. It might be because he's salty about having to deal with it pre sideboarding, but it's got me thinking about the card. I like that it basically shuts down Snapcaster Mage and hinders storm, plus if played early enough it shrinks goyf and throws off delirium. But are there other uses that I'm over looking? I've been privy to keep it in because from my understanding we have a lot of control in our local meta.
How does Unravel the Aether/Deglamer interact with Welding Jar? Probably a stupid question, but I've never run into jar before. Plus I'm always on the look out for sideboard options.
So I've been brewing and doing a little play-testing with Stompy again (I just have too much fun) and I've been thinking of taking it to some events. I'm curious about everyone's opinion about running Dryad Militant in the main? I know it's been found in basically everyone's list and I have been running 4 since I built the deck. But after testing with a storm player he keeps telling me that while Dryad is a good card he thinks it does best in the sideboard. It might be because he's salty about having to deal with it pre sideboarding, but it's got me thinking about the card. I like that it basically shuts down Snapcaster Mage and hinders storm, plus if played early enough it shrinks goyf and throws off delirium. But are there other uses that I'm over looking? I've been privy to keep it in because from my understanding we have a lot of control in our local meta.
Exactly. Until recently, Stompy was in dire need of playable 1 drops. Militant would have been a contender just as a hybrid Savannah Lions. The fact that it comes with a nice hate side effect (in addition to the aforementioned it shuts down flashback of all sorts - Faithless Looting is a big one these days - and in a world where delve has become so big it neuters that too by making so much delve fuel not-fuel) makes it a staple.
I hate that I forgot about delve. I was already going to keep running Militant regardless I just needed some more points in case the argument arises again.
So I've been brewing and doing a little play-testing with Stompy again (I just have too much fun) and I've been thinking of taking it to some events. I'm curious about everyone's opinion about running Dryad Militant in the main? I know it's been found in basically everyone's list and I have been running 4 since I built the deck. But after testing with a storm player he keeps telling me that while Dryad is a good card he thinks it does best in the sideboard. It might be because he's salty about having to deal with it pre sideboarding, but it's got me thinking about the card. I like that it basically shuts down Snapcaster Mage and hinders storm, plus if played early enough it shrinks goyf and throws off delirium. But are there other uses that I'm over looking? I've been privy to keep it in because from my understanding we have a lot of control in our local meta.
I have sometimes cut down the Dryad to 3, but always went back to 4. She's just good for this deck. The yard is a very used / abused area in Modern, and dryad together with the scavenging ooze helps keep our opponent's yard under control. Never had the chance to use it against Storm.. but I would assume the Dryad is effective because it weakens their Past in Flames strategy.
I've been reading your guide for a while now and think its great.
I was reading through the M19 card list and three creatures caught my attention.
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma 4 drop that reduces costs of cards with power > 4 by 2 and pumps cards with power > 4 by +1/+1 and trample when it attacks. This seems like it could be a strong option if you find yourself getting dragged into the midgame.
Hungering Hydra The ability to add and continue gaining +1/+1 counters while not being able to be blocked by more than one creature make it seem like a survivor that can also mesh with Avatar of the Resolute very well
We don’t play 4 drops and we don’t generally play things with generic mana costs that this could reduce. Taking 2 generic off Leatherback or Steel Leaf ... does nothing.
Without any self-hurting mechanism that hydra is seldom more than a pricier Endless One is a slower nonhating Mistcutter Hydra, neither of which gets used.
A 5 drop is way out.
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I have just edited the primer:
I added fetches, Narnam Renegade and Steel Leaf Champion to the basic list, and added info on Steel Leaf Champion. (Also changed the place and info on some card choices due to recent updates.)
I have a problem though: because of the 12 1-drops, I had to cut noncreature spells. I chose to cut 2 Aspect of Hydra, but I don't know if that is a correct choice. I was thinking of cutting 1 Aspect and 1 Rancor, but I honestly don't know. Can I get your opinions on this?
Also, has Damping Sphere been tested enough for me to write something about it? Does it need to be added to the side of the basic list? (I assume so.)
Please let me know if I need to change anything else!
I was thinking about the comparison between Vines of Vastwood and Blossoming Defense. Obviously, Vines has decreased in power a bit since Twin and Infect have both died, but the 2 extra power makes me unsure about switching it with Defense. The mana reduction for the pump in Defense seems really good, but I haven't tested it myself.
With Blossoming defense.. it has been good. I've replaced all Vines with them. Could always put the vines back in again if Infect comes back.
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The 'countering something that targets our opponent's creature' might not be as relevant as it used to be, and the 1 mana needed for Defense might make it attractive, but what I'm mostly thinking about is when we run out of cards while attacking, we (most of the time) only have pump spells in our hand, and to be able to pump for 4 instead of 2 might make a big difference when pushing for the last bits of damage.
I've also been trying out Ghalta, Primal Hunger as a singleton in the main but have since switched it to the sideboard. From my previous experience stompys weakness were decks that either had excessive removal and wrath effects or creatures that could clog up the ground and profitably trade with ours. That said, I've been grinding against a lot of midrange and control variants in the ques on magic online and have been doing fairly well. My main question is what are the difficult matchups for stompy now that we have access to tools like Steel Leaf Champion, and Rhonas the Indomitable. Also What are your thoughts on Shapers' Sanctuary? Personally this card has won me games in against said control and midrange builds, on average drawing 3 - 4 cards before the game ends.
Maindeck 60
Creature: 26
4 Experiment One
1 Kessig Prowler
4 Dryad Militant
4 Avatar of the Resolute
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Leatherback Baloth
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Steel Leaf Champion
Instant // Sorcery 9
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Dismember
Enchantment 4
4 Rancor
Manabase 21
1 Treetop Village
2 Hashep Oasis
18 Forest
Sideboard:
2 Life Goes On
3 Natural State
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Feed the Clan
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Dismember
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
Anyway my thoughts on treetop village, are that it's a good card but can be very awkward when drawn in multiples within the first few turns. Would you recommend keeping the 21 land count or upping it to 22 with the extra treetop? So far in my games I've noted multiple occasions where I've drawn Rhonas the Indomitable alongside Leatherback Baloth. What is the consensus on Rhonas currently, is he to be prioritized as a game ending threat, worth the loss in devotion, creature clause, and potential for a redundant and dead draw in multiples? I could see testing Blossoming Defense to come to my own opinions, it is more mana efficient and gets around Spellskite. I am a little leery of the loss of damage and practical application of Vines of Vastwood, I recall more than a few games where the four damage from Vines was exactly lethal and won me games where I would not have before. What is your opinion on Defense, does the mana saved allow you to commit more to the board earlier and therefore allow the establishment a bigger board presence?
My sideboard is definitely in a work in progress, so I appreciate your input with that too. The Natural State is for Affinity first and foremost, since I'm not playing Pithing Needle I felt the need for addition removal towards their man-lands. I also bring it in against decks I suspect play Spellskite or Ensnaring Bridge. Going down to just two copies and utilizing the slot for something else, is definitely something that I had considered. Unravel the Aether is there for decks playing Welding Jar or Wurmcoil Engine, as for Reclamation Sage, I wanted a creature so as not dilute my deck when sideboarding. I had tested Manglehorn and Thrashing Brontodon, but rec sage seemed to preform the best out of those three. I do have a single Phyrexian Revoker to name critical things like Ezuri, Renigade Leader and Aether Vial but maybe I need more than one.
I haven't tested Damping Sphere in Stompy but I had thought our matchups against both Tron and Storm were reasonable. That said, my matchup experience against Tron was when I was playing three copies of Dungrove Elder in my first iteration of Stompy a few years ago. I found that Karn was just an expensive sorcery speed removal, and only really cared about Wurmcoil Engine, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, or an early Oblivion Stone. I was usually able to goldfish my opponent by turn four because of the lack of interaction, and race the ugin or o-stone. Though now that Walking Balista and splash colors for removal like Fatal Push and Collective Brutality have been added this has probably heavily effected this matchup. What is your experience on this? Storm hate I'm not convinced we need though, isn't Drydad Militant and to a lesser extent Scavenging Ooze coupled with our aggression enough? I'm curious to see if something has changed here too.
Bow of Nylea is primarily a hedge for creature based matchups were board stalls generally occur, like merfolk or goyf decks. The text 'attacking creatures you control have deathtouch' is crucial and combines especially nicely with our creatures that have trample. If I was to remove it, is there perhaps a different card you could suggest to provide a similar role? Perhaps an additional Ghalta, Primal Hunger or Scavenging Ooze?
I have not tried fight spells, excluding Ulvenwald Tracker in stompy yet. I should test Nature's Way instead of the third Dismember because your right sometimes the life loss can be very relevant if you draw it in multiples. Are you ever impacted by loss of instant speed removal? Or blown out by removal in matchups were you need this effect? Finally are those risks worth the four life you would normally pay for Dismember? I was under the impression that Dismember was the premier removal, then if you maxed four copies, you would add additional spells like Nature's Way.
I've bought and sold Kitchen Finks in the past but don't currently have access to them, Pulse of Murasa, however, is an attractive option. I have always wanted to play a singleton as it is more versatile and would improve mathups against more midrange builds. I'll test it out, do you believe I should remove a Life Goes On or Feed the Clan for this?
Personally, I will have to disagree with you on the utility Birds of Paradise. I remember reading an article on the optimal use of mana dorks, from what I recall to draw a dork in your opener you need to devote a minimum of five slots to them. You also want to lean heavier towards three and four mana spells to facilitate your mana acceleration. I'm guessing somewhere between seven to ten, three cmc spells. I looked up a Bant Knightfall list on mtg goldfish, they had listed eight mana dorks, nineteen cards of three cmc and four coco's. I think if I was to add mana dorks it would change the layout of classic stompy and I would devote more slots towards powerfull three drops and add Collected Company. My knowledge is rusty at best though, is there anyone that knows more about the statistics behind this, if so what is your opinion or take on this?
How does Unravel the Aether/Deglamer interact with Welding Jar? Probably a stupid question, but I've never run into jar before. Plus I'm always on the look out for sideboard options.
WBTokensWB
Its a 2/1 for 1 which we can play in green.
WBTokensWB
I have sometimes cut down the Dryad to 3, but always went back to 4. She's just good for this deck. The yard is a very used / abused area in Modern, and dryad together with the scavenging ooze helps keep our opponent's yard under control. Never had the chance to use it against Storm.. but I would assume the Dryad is effective because it weakens their Past in Flames strategy.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnohuAxit_M
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron
I was reading through the M19 card list and three creatures caught my attention.
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma 4 drop that reduces costs of cards with power > 4 by 2 and pumps cards with power > 4 by +1/+1 and trample when it attacks. This seems like it could be a strong option if you find yourself getting dragged into the midgame.
Hungering Hydra The ability to add and continue gaining +1/+1 counters while not being able to be blocked by more than one creature make it seem like a survivor that can also mesh with Avatar of the Resolute very well
Gigantosaurus Maybe not great on its own, but could mesh well with Aspect of the Hydra or Goreclaw if it is used.
Curious what your thoughts are one whether these are realistic additions to Stompy.
Without any self-hurting mechanism that hydra is seldom more than a pricier Endless One is a slower nonhating Mistcutter Hydra, neither of which gets used.
A 5 drop is way out.