Any thought to using one of the costlier tricksier Fog cousins? Winds of Qal Sisma will often meet its Ferocious mode for us, and a one sided fog could be quite useful either on the attack (make their tradeoff blocks not tradeoffs) or on the defence (actually be able to take out some attackers). But can we swing the 2 cost for this versatility.
My initial interpretations of Hexdrinker and Barkhide Troll were incorrect. We should definitely test them out. We have to either cut lands or Steel Leaf Champion or a mixture of both for them though.
Also Veil of Summer is an auto include as a 2-3 of in the sideboard- maybe 4 of. The only reason not to is your specific meta doesn't have blue or black.
My initial interpretations of Hexdrinker and Barkhide Troll were incorrect. We should definitely test them out. We have to either cut lands or Steel Leaf Champion or a mixture of both for them though.
Also Veil of Summer is an auto include as a 2-3 of in the sideboard- maybe 4 of. The only reason not to is your specific meta doesn't have blue or black.
I dont see Veil of Summer as great card in theory. Whats its ceiling? You 2-for-1 them, saving one of your janky creatures. Im not sure such card advantage is even good vs decks that want to grind, grinding is their game, they will outplay you if you give them time. Not to mention you have hexproof, pumps, undying and regeneration, so another hexproof can be superfluous. Its floor being a blank card you cant use, because blue and black decks dont pack much removal and counterspells these days. Overall I think thats a weak sideboard card. If I want to grind Id be happier with Kitchen Finks, aside from 2-1 it can deal damage and kill planeswalkers, more synergic with our pumps and gains life. Also not only applicable vs blue and black.
My initial interpretations of Hexdrinker and Barkhide Troll were incorrect. We should definitely test them out. We have to either cut lands or Steel Leaf Champion or a mixture of both for them though.
Also Veil of Summer is an auto include as a 2-3 of in the sideboard- maybe 4 of. The only reason not to is your specific meta doesn't have blue or black.
Even if the meta is blue or black, i prefer to sideboard threats rather than replacing veils with a deck giving hexproof to creatures or the Barkhide Troll having a built-in hexproof. I've been playing with control and BGx decks and I'm not obliged to put veil. Yes it can replace itself, but seeing another variety of Vines of Vastwood is a big no.
My initial interpretations of Hexdrinker and Barkhide Troll were incorrect. We should definitely test them out. We have to either cut lands or Steel Leaf Champion or a mixture of both for them though.
Also Veil of Summer is an auto include as a 2-3 of in the sideboard- maybe 4 of. The only reason not to is your specific meta doesn't have blue or black.
I dont see Veil of Summer as great card in theory. Whats its ceiling? You 2-for-1 them, saving one of your janky creatures. Im not sure such card advantage is even good vs decks that want to grind, grinding is their game, they will outplay you if you give them time. Not to mention you have hexproof, pumps, undying and regeneration, so another hexproof can be superfluous. Its floor being a blank card you cant use, because blue and black decks dont pack much removal and counterspells these days. Overall I think thats a weak sideboard card. If I want to grind Id be happier with Kitchen Finks, aside from 2-1 it can deal damage and kill planeswalkers, more synergic with our pumps and gains life. Also not only applicable vs blue and black.
Well considering you don't want to use Vines on their turn, Veil is really friggin good if it saves your pressure/creature and replaces itself. There are so many applications where you can sequence them to misuse their removal/spells/abilities. Have you guys literally read, you and your permanents gain hexproof until the end of turn from u and b and spells can't be countered too? It also stops Cryptic and possibly draws you a card. Like what more do you want...
I don't know about you but Kitchen Finks is kind of not good right now. Especially when Burn decks don't swing as much now with the inclusion of Light up the Stage and Skewer the Critics. It simply doesn't do enough of anything. It also doesn't block Phoenix and swings for 3 for a 3 drop. You seem like a fan but honestly... its not even a jack of all trades because it doesn't do anything decent in this meta.
If you are asking to side in more threats like Kitchen Finks over Vei- sorry but please stop disappointing me.
Veil Of Summer is absolutely insane. My only reason for not jamming it is that it's good against match-ups I already feel pretty good about. It does not stop Cryptic Command tap mode, I made the same comment earlier. That mode doesn't target a player. The card is really good in that it can substitute in place of a 1-drop creature against a deck with discard spells to counter that first spell and draw a card. Which is a pretty brutal turnaround or virtual Time Walk, even pulling you out of a mulligan, or setting an opponent further back if they started on 6.
Kitchen Finks does not do nearly enough right now. The match-ups where life preservation is important also require pressure, so the SB slots must be mana efficient. Fog, Life Goes On, and maaaybe Weather The Storm (due to it's utility against some combo) are better. Scavenging Ooze is better in grindy situations.
My mistake about cryptic. Okay even then I think it’s a great card. I feel there are So many games where they hard cast teferi and minus and have just enough to stabilize.
Oh, totally. That's why I was jamming Repudiate // Replicate way back when. It was a pretty bad card, but it filled that roll very well. Veil Of Summer stops the Teferi, Time Raveler bounce, too. You just have to cast it in response to them casting him.
I swapped 4 Veil Of Summer into my SB and immediately played a match against Grixis control. I cast it 3 times, blowing out a Kologhan's Command being the most insane moment.
Had a great FNM. Went 4-0 beating UW control, Humans, Eldrazi Tron, and Hollow.
Hexdrinker keeps doing so so much work.
On another note. I've been testing out blooming marshes for the last few months.
My conclusion is that they are actually a net negative to the deck. It's too bad bought a foil playset but I'm sure I can find another home for them.
i can add a generic sb as for the deck but its always better to make your own for your own local meta.
card choice,
pelt over eone: two reasons. the first reason for pelt is that as soon as you remove beloth and narnams the toughness clause becomes irrelevant. the second is that with the addition of savage swipe as removal the size at death clause on pelt can be used to increase its size.
savage swipe over mb dismember: first i recommend 2-3 dismembers sbto help deal with stuff swipe cannot. now reasons. with the addition of troll the 2 power claus is easy to reach and use. this paired with pelt collector synergy and the explosive turns it can offer makes it the strongest choice for a budget list. (it also hits a lot of relevant creatures with 4 damage, like thing in the ice and thought knot seer, while making our creatures survive fights with thalias, snaps, grave crawlers and Reflectors. )
it also adds to aggression of the deck which is needed i the current meta.
vines of blossoming: in a budget build of the deck, there is less focus needed for all out aggression. with the higher land count and the need for more effective pump vines is a better choice.
I think that if you play rancor you might as well play 4 since the penetration aid plus your never not wanting to have one in hand in this deck. Only 2 means your either waiting for it or its rarely relevant.
I think that if you play rancor you might as well play 4 since the penetration aid plus your never not wanting to have one in hand in this deck. Only 2 means your either waiting for it or its rarely relevant.
The biggest issue with rancors is the ability for an opponent to kill a creture your cast the rancor on befor it resolves meaning they 2/1 you. As stompy has no/very little card draw this can be a big issue. Once in a game is something you can recover from twice and it makes things almost unwinnable.
For penatration you already have swipes in the deck. And removal and pump is better payoff than pump and trample. So risk/reward swipe is better but you still don't what to many soc speed pumps so only 2 rancors.
Is 22 lands a bit much? Isn't the deck supposed to be lower to the ground and run 18-20 lands?
Traditionaly its 21 lands. Lower if you run fetches and have a very low curve (14-16 1 drops). With the addion of barkhide troll and and the lack of powerful one in the budget list upping the lands helps a little with consitancy. While adding thickets help with flood as you can simply cycle them if you draw them after you hit your third land drop.
not really if they cannot respond then they are probably a creature deck. probably dredge, human, vizia or taxes (maybe tron, or storm but if they do there thing it really doesn't matter much anyway)
in all of these builds where either card matters its better to have swipe than rancor.
assuming that your a 2 power onedrop turn one
turn 2 with swipe, you cast, (you protect with vines if needs be), you kill there blocker/combocreture/birds (hopefully a nice thalia or druid or noble(stop those turn three cocos)) and swing for 4 damage
with rancor you play your 2 power onedrop, you swing in with a 4/1 trample, you either get blocked and now you have no creature or they take the 4 and have a way to abuse there turn 1/2 drop for value or they just combo off and you don't get a third turn *cough* vizer/Carrion Feeder *cough*
in meta with fair magic you would be right but in the current meta having 2 more damage over a second turn (or even 4 dandge over 2 extra turns) is not as good as removal and damage now.
i would also point out that with gy decks being so strong in the current metas mainboard surgicals are pretty common when playing modern. normally these are dead cards against us but stompy has 2 good targets these are rancor and strangleroot. which isn't back breaking in itself but it is another point solidly in swipes corner.
I personally always err on the side of fewer lands. Also agree that Fog can be good. Been using that trick since way back in Pauper.
Also Veil of Summer is an auto include as a 2-3 of in the sideboard- maybe 4 of. The only reason not to is your specific meta doesn't have blue or black.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Even if the meta is blue or black, i prefer to sideboard threats rather than replacing veils with a deck giving hexproof to creatures or the Barkhide Troll having a built-in hexproof. I've been playing with control and BGx decks and I'm not obliged to put veil. Yes it can replace itself, but seeing another variety of Vines of Vastwood is a big no.
The list just went 5-0 in a modern competitive league... looks like the Barkhide Troll is a good addition to the deck.
Well considering you don't want to use Vines on their turn, Veil is really friggin good if it saves your pressure/creature and replaces itself. There are so many applications where you can sequence them to misuse their removal/spells/abilities. Have you guys literally read, you and your permanents gain hexproof until the end of turn from u and b and spells can't be countered too? It also stops Cryptic and possibly draws you a card. Like what more do you want...
I don't know about you but Kitchen Finks is kind of not good right now. Especially when Burn decks don't swing as much now with the inclusion of Light up the Stage and Skewer the Critics. It simply doesn't do enough of anything. It also doesn't block Phoenix and swings for 3 for a 3 drop. You seem like a fan but honestly... its not even a jack of all trades because it doesn't do anything decent in this meta.
If you are asking to side in more threats like Kitchen Finks over Vei- sorry but please stop disappointing me.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Kitchen Finks does not do nearly enough right now. The match-ups where life preservation is important also require pressure, so the SB slots must be mana efficient. Fog, Life Goes On, and maaaybe Weather The Storm (due to it's utility against some combo) are better. Scavenging Ooze is better in grindy situations.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
I swapped 4 Veil Of Summer into my SB and immediately played a match against Grixis control. I cast it 3 times, blowing out a Kologhan's Command being the most insane moment.
Hexdrinker keeps doing so so much work.
On another note. I've been testing out blooming marshes for the last few months.
My conclusion is that they are actually a net negative to the deck. It's too bad bought a foil playset but I'm sure I can find another home for them.
this is a solid budget build (under $50 from tcg)
4x Dryad Militant
2x Kessig Prowler
4x Pelt Collector
4x Avatar of the Resolute
3x Barkhide Troll
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
3x Steel Leaf Champion
16x Forest
2x Hashep Oasis
2x Tranquil Thicket
2x Treetop Village
Instant (6)
3x Aspect of Hydra
3x Vines of Vastwood
4x Savage Swipe
Enchantment (2)
2x Rancor
i can add a generic sb as for the deck but its always better to make your own for your own local meta.
card choice,
pelt over eone: two reasons. the first reason for pelt is that as soon as you remove beloth and narnams the toughness clause becomes irrelevant. the second is that with the addition of savage swipe as removal the size at death clause on pelt can be used to increase its size.
savage swipe over mb dismember: first i recommend 2-3 dismembers sbto help deal with stuff swipe cannot. now reasons. with the addition of troll the 2 power claus is easy to reach and use. this paired with pelt collector synergy and the explosive turns it can offer makes it the strongest choice for a budget list. (it also hits a lot of relevant creatures with 4 damage, like thing in the ice and thought knot seer, while making our creatures survive fights with thalias, snaps, grave crawlers and Reflectors. )
it also adds to aggression of the deck which is needed i the current meta.
vines of blossoming: in a budget build of the deck, there is less focus needed for all out aggression. with the higher land count and the need for more effective pump vines is a better choice.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
The biggest issue with rancors is the ability for an opponent to kill a creture your cast the rancor on befor it resolves meaning they 2/1 you. As stompy has no/very little card draw this can be a big issue. Once in a game is something you can recover from twice and it makes things almost unwinnable.
For penatration you already have swipes in the deck. And removal and pump is better payoff than pump and trample. So risk/reward swipe is better but you still don't what to many soc speed pumps so only 2 rancors.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
Traditionaly its 21 lands. Lower if you run fetches and have a very low curve (14-16 1 drops). With the addion of barkhide troll and and the lack of powerful one in the budget list upping the lands helps a little with consitancy. While adding thickets help with flood as you can simply cycle them if you draw them after you hit your third land drop.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
in all of these builds where either card matters its better to have swipe than rancor.
assuming that your a 2 power onedrop turn one
turn 2 with swipe, you cast, (you protect with vines if needs be), you kill there blocker/combocreture/birds (hopefully a nice thalia or druid or noble(stop those turn three cocos)) and swing for 4 damage
with rancor you play your 2 power onedrop, you swing in with a 4/1 trample, you either get blocked and now you have no creature or they take the 4 and have a way to abuse there turn 1/2 drop for value or they just combo off and you don't get a third turn *cough* vizer/Carrion Feeder *cough*
in meta with fair magic you would be right but in the current meta having 2 more damage over a second turn (or even 4 dandge over 2 extra turns) is not as good as removal and damage now.
i would also point out that with gy decks being so strong in the current metas mainboard surgicals are pretty common when playing modern. normally these are dead cards against us but stompy has 2 good targets these are rancor and strangleroot. which isn't back breaking in itself but it is another point solidly in swipes corner.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR