MTG Salvation

Another thing : Cindervines on turn 2 is auto-win against Storm. So a SB card that is good against 3+ matchups should get more of our attention, IMHO. Maybe a mix of Cindervines and Smash to Smithereens?

I've done a lot of testing Cindervines and can add to the comments being made. It's a great card and does incredible things in the matches you mentioned - UW Control, Blue Shadow, and it's an absolute beast against Storm as Eidolon 5-8. The thing is, we already have great matches against these decks. I've come to the conclusion that unless Whir Control becomes a really big phenomenon (that deck is an issue for us), I'll keep it in a binder for the time being. The thing about this card is it completes for our artifact removal in Smash to Smithereens or Destructive Revelry. The big issues I've had is when I play against the artifact decks or key artifacts, is I want instant speed removal. Dealing with a Wurmcoil, Cranial Plating, Aether Vial etc are much easier at instant speed rather than sorcery. I didn't like dropping Cindervines early and taking my foot off the gas against those decks and then leaving mana up to play removal. It's slower and the artifact decks get better against us when we aren't applying pressure - especially now with the new mulligan rule. That being said, I've never won any GPs so take what I say with a grain of salt

I might be late to the party, but are we going to run some numbers of Sunbaked Canyon? I'm thinking a playset, but I just wanna be sure. It can be a lot of bleeding on our part, but I know the power of Horizon canopy in an aggro deck and I'm pretty sure burn wants its own version.

I had one canyon, and already witnessed the benefit. I should have the other three in the mail today. Yes, the card is good and you will want at least three

Quote from MisterMuffin21 »

I might be late to the party, but are we going to run some numbers of Sunbaked Canyon? I'm thinking a playset, but I just wanna be sure. It can be a lot of bleeding on our part, but I know the power of Horizon canopy in an aggro deck and I'm pretty sure burn wants its own version.

Dude, I'm going to play some Canyons and I'm on Rakdos!

I'm running 4 Canyon and I can't see myself go down on that number. Stock manabase :

I think the answer is going to be 4. I'll probably stick to 8 fetches and cut 2 Vantage and 2 fetches to open up the spots. I'm going to wait on the price to calm down before buying foils though.

I'd say 2 shocks and 3 basics I'd even go 3 vantage and 4 mountains too personally. With 6 fetches, 2 shocks, 3 vantage and 4 canyons, that's still way more than enough white sources personally. I'd even go up on fetches if you're running grim and blazes but that's me. Lol. I run 8 fetches, 2 shocks, and 2 cliffs and have no issues getting black in 19 lands but again... That's me. I'm waiting on the price to settle as well. Thoughts on the new red leyline for the mirror? leyline of combustion

Quote from TylerStegman »

I'd say 2 shocks and 3 basics I'd even go 3 vantage and 4 mountains too personally. With 6 fetches, 2 shocks, 3 vantage and 4 canyons, that's still way more than enough white sources personally. I'd even go up on fetches if you're running grim and blazes but that's me. Lol. I run 8 fetches, 2 shocks, and 2 cliffs and have no issues getting black in 19 lands but again... That's me. I'm waiting on the price to settle as well. Thoughts on the new red leyline for the mirror? leyline of combustion

I think that new Leyline is great in the mirror (assuming it's down turn zero). I also think it has fantastic potential against any black hand disruption, control and prison decks, spirits, humans, storm, anything with a walking ballista.

i think the new leyline makes the mirror into a lotv against dredge decks, if you start with it and your opponents first spell isn't to immediately kill it its going to be a very short match. the only real defence againt it is your own leyline (or turn 2 rev)

I have like 2 pages in my binder dedicated to burn cards that have been played or have possibilities so I'll probably pick up a set of it. I need to get my set of cindervines. Waiting on skelemental set in the mail.

The new Leyline looks like it's a better alternative to Kor Firewalker in the mirror for when Burn mirrors get big. Incidentally, it's an uncounterable hate card against Storm and they're forced to bounce it and can't Remand it. It also can beat Lantern-style mill decks. As Tyler said, it can go in the extended sideboard part of the binder and wait until it's needed.

Quote from elconquistador1985 »

The new Leyline looks like it's a better alternative to Kor Firewalker in the mirror for when Burn mirrors get big. Incidentally, it's an uncounterable hate card against Storm and they're forced to bounce it and can't Remand it. It also can beat Lantern-style mill decks. As Tyler said, it can go in the extended sideboard part of the binder and wait until it's needed.

If they don't deal with it, this is also a hard back breaker for Jund and the Rock with all their targeted removal as well. UW control? Sure counter 3 spells in a row (We spoke earlier about Cindervines against this deck - this new combustion card is better). I think if we put enough pressure into Phonenix early, this hurts their ability to go off with Pyromancer Ascencion and their control spells (of course the creatures are still a thing too but I think we have the tools to win here). Death Shadow also has a lot of disruption which gets them lower on health much faster. Lastly, this should ping 2 damage each time Walking Ballista is activated - someone please correct me if I'm wrong. If yes, that puts extra pressure on Tron, Amulet Titan, and Hardened Scales... although I'm not sure this is the best card in these instances.

In magic dream land, this plus Eidolon on the board is incredibly powerful. All of this is with the assumption that we can reliably turn 0 this card so that means we're running 4. I agree you Tyler and Elcon that I'm picking up 4 copies of this card and keeping them in a binder but I think at first glance, this is definitely something we want to be testing.

**Realized UW control targets spells and not you or permanents. Less good there**

Quote from TylerStegman »

I'd say 2 shocks and 3 basics I'd even go 3 vantage and 4 mountains too personally. With 6 fetches, 2 shocks, 3 vantage and 4 canyons, that's still way more than enough white sources personally. I'd even go up on fetches if you're running grim and blazes but that's me. Lol. I run 8 fetches, 2 shocks, and 2 cliffs and have no issues getting black in 19 lands but again... That's me. I'm waiting on the price to settle as well. Thoughts on the new red leyline for the mirror? leyline of combustion

The new red leyline seems interesting, but narrow. To me, the Burn mirror comes down to Skullcrack on their Helix and landing Firewalker.

It will definitely deal 2 to Ballista's controller for every counter they remove, and the stack would look like: ballista ping -> leyline shock -> ballista ping -> leyline shock, with the Leyline shocks resolving before the corresponding ballista ping.

I think I am over grim lavamancer for now. I'd been running a singleton in the main, but it really is only good against humans turn 1 and not as good against anything else. I think with the canyons, I am going back to twenty lands, knowing four canyons can mitigate the occasional flood.

Quote from TomCourtenay »

Quote from TylerStegman »

I'd say 2 shocks and 3 basics I'd even go 3 vantage and 4 mountains too personally. With 6 fetches, 2 shocks, 3 vantage and 4 canyons, that's still way more than enough white sources personally. I'd even go up on fetches if you're running grim and blazes but that's me. Lol. I run 8 fetches, 2 shocks, and 2 cliffs and have no issues getting black in 19 lands but again... That's me. I'm waiting on the price to settle as well. Thoughts on the new red leyline for the mirror? leyline of combustion

The new red leyline seems interesting, but narrow. To me, the Burn mirror comes down to Skullcrack on their Helix and landing Firewalker.

But this card can replace firewalker, and is good against other decks as well. The more versatile a sideboard card, the better. I always felt bad when I was compelled to run Firewalker in my sideboard (due to burn in my meta) but never got paired with the mirror. Now I can run this layline and be comfortable against the mirror and a number of other matchups as well.

I want to be proven wrong about having 8 canopies in my deck rather than the other way around so I'm playing all 8 in Boros. Haven't had the opportunity to test it in an FNM or so yet unfortunately. Pretty sure that in Boros (rather than with a splash for 3rd color) it's correct or at least close to it.

As for the red leyline, I don't see how this is an improvement. I already don't play firewalker as searing blood and skullcrack suffice and have way more applications.

Searing Blood deals three damage and slows your opponent down. It's a tempo card, and a good one at that, in the mirror. The leyline adds the following text to every noncreature spell "this deals two damage to you." It speeds up your clock more than blood slows them down, or hell even firewalker. It also has applications against midrange decks, and versatility is key with sideboard cards.

Also, comically enough, it stops hogaak from using altar to deck you out. On turn three, on the play, they would have to target you 17 times with altar to win.

It's also a legitimate way to beat Ad Nauseam, and we didn't really have one before.

It might be solid enough against Hogaak. They could just mill themselves enough to make a big enough zombie army to win in t4, though.