I’ve tested the horizon land sunbaked canyon in place of inspiring vantage and it’s felt really great. Whether this is correct or not is up for debate but it’s just to get me some experience with it. Drawing that extra card can is overall a minor difference and in many games doesn’t even come up. When drawing that extra card does come up, it is helpful and feels very good. The only thing to watch out for is cracking it when you really want that extra card because you’re topdecking but it’s your only white source. I cracked it hoping for an extra bolt and got a helix and was like yeah maybe not the smartest move sacrificing my only white source haha. Anyway, I love the card. It’s a nice subtle boost to burn.
I agree that Sunbaked Canyon is very interesting. Now with it, I guess that the right number is 20 lands with 1-3 Sunbaked Canyon. If Nimble Mongoose gets popular, Relic of Progenitus will probably be the best grave hate card, and I would also consider black versions with Self-Inflicted Wound.
As soon as modern horizon is legal, I will try this :
10 fetch
4 sunbaked canyon
3 mountains
2 sacred foundry
basically, i will switch all 4 inspiring vantage for 4 sunbaked canyon.
I still want a lot of fetch for grim lavamencer and landfall searing blaze.
I also want a lot of fetch to get a sacred foundry in the case that i need to crack my sunbaked canyon (and it's my only white source).
I believe that the advantage to draw a card when you are in topdeck mode is greater than the disadvantage of taking some damage in early game
Pretty much will suck in any pre-sideboard game, I guess. Though come to think of it we can only pack in so much hate for decks that will be at a higher advantage with this new mulligan rule.
what do you think or burn now with the london mulligan rule ?
will burn be better, neutral or less good now ?
For us, i believe it will be neutral ... because our deck is abour 20 lands and 40 bolts, the mulligan rule will not change that much (unless we draw like 4 lands/3spells and that would have been a mulligan anyway)
What kind of decks will this rule advantage, and what kind of decks will it disadvantage ?
Because it might be a case of rock/paper/scissors here ...
For example, if it helps Tron or scapeshift and everyone starts playing that, since we have a good matchup against that, it will be "good" for us...
I think it's neutral for Burn because we're a critical mass deck that can't afford to mulligan much. Because of that, it's a net negative for us because it boosts people searching for silver bullets that hurt us.
If Tron can sculpt natural Tron more easily, I think we're not quite as favored as we are now.
Stop complaining boiz. Burn got a new land and a few cards over the last couple years.
It's more of a meta call than about the rule itself. Depending on the way the meta shifts, Burn could actually slightly benefit from the impact of the new rule. W&S.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I don't think it's a meta call to say that this hurts Burn more than any other deck in the format. Combo decks can more easily sculpt hands, and fair decks can more easily find silver bullet answers, or have to mulligan to 5 less often. One of Burn's biggest strengths is consistency, due to the nature of the deck. Everyone else just got consistency baked into their game plan, which is arguably a good thing. But it also means everybody got a shot in the arm but us. We're already suffering in terms of how often we show up versus how well we do. We did get Skewer the Critics, and that definitely helps. But other game plans are getting more amd more tools, and we didn't really get much in Horizons. The land helps but we really did need something that hits harder. We don't have the speed and game-breaking ability of traditional combo decks. And we can't afford the answers of traditional fair decks. Graveyard-based strategies have gotten stronger and faster, giving aggro decks another avenue aside from the traditional curve-out route (and will benefit strongly from the London mulligan). What's worse, Burn LOOKS like it's doing really well, because people still play it all the time, so I'm not expecting a fix any time soon. I think we're in for a bumpy ride.
I’ve noticed Burn decks lately on MTGO and some SCG events have cut Skewer down to 2 in favor of more Helix and Chained to the rocks over path in the sideboard. Any thoughts?
Also, how good is Skewer? I’ve run into trouble casting it against Grixis Shadow because creatures just can’t get in for damage when I need them to. Always getting stopped by removal or giant blockers.
I’ve noticed Burn decks lately on MTGO and some SCG events have cut Skewer down to 2 in favor of more Helix and Chained to the rocks over path in the sideboard. Any thoughts?
Also, how good is Skewer? I’ve run into trouble casting it against Grixis Shadow because creatures just can’t get in for damage when I need them to. Always getting stopped by removal or giant blockers.
I think Skewer is better in a deck with a higher density of 1 CMC spells, to enable Spectacle. Removing Helix for Shard Volley and Light Up The Stage serves both purpose (Light Up to get more spells, and Shard + Skewer to end the game fast with a flurry of cheap but effective spells). BTW, you know that you don’t have to deal combat damage to trigger Spectacle? Burning the dome, or opponent triggering Eidolon on your turn will allow you to cast Skewer for 1 mana.
I don't think it's a meta call to say that this hurts Burn more than any other deck in the format. Combo decks can more easily sculpt hands, and fair decks can more easily find silver bullet answers, or have to mulligan to 5 less often. One of Burn's biggest strengths is consistency, due to the nature of the deck. Everyone else just got consistency baked into their game plan, which is arguably a good thing. But it also means everybody got a shot in the arm but us. We're already suffering in terms of how often we show up versus how well we do. We did get Skewer the Critics, and that definitely helps. But other game plans are getting more amd more tools, and we didn't really get much in Horizons. The land helps but we really did need something that hits harder. We don't have the speed and game-breaking ability of traditional combo decks. And we can't afford the answers of traditional fair decks. Graveyard-based strategies have gotten stronger and faster, giving aggro decks another avenue aside from the traditional curve-out route (and will benefit strongly from the London mulligan). What's worse, Burn LOOKS like it's doing really well, because people still play it all the time, so I'm not expecting a fix any time soon. I think we're in for a bumpy ride.
I don’t see things that way. The new London Mulligan will only make other decks more consistent when they are at less than 7 cards. Since Burn is renowned for being consistent with the opening 7, and the new rule is likely to encourage players to Mulligan more aggressively, we should have more gas than them to close the game in our favor. This is more true with the new Horizon Lands. Trading lands for Burn spells is what we always wanted. But on top of that, opponents will also play these lands in their decks, and take damage every time they tap for mana. The extra card for us and extra damage self-inflicted by opponents will both play in our favor.
I’m very happy with the new Mulligan. For each free wins we’ll not get to opponents that screw up, flood out or short out, we’ll not get a loss in similar fashion. All in all, we’ll play more Magic (and less rage), and this is very, very, very fine with me.
I think you're over estimating how many people will be running those lands and if they are they're probably not running them in a full playset. Right now there's only what three Decks that run Horizon canopy? The only deck I could see running a playset would be death Shadow only for the simple fact they want to damage themselves. I don't know why anyone would take skewer out or run any less than 4 as long as you prioritize and play smart there's no reason is anything less than a bolt. Chained to the Rocks has its advantages but at the time when I tried them there were times where I wish I had the instant speed removal instead of chained. Personally I agree with the quoted message that this gives people the ability to sculpt their hands and find what they need to stop us. I would not be surprised if layline does not see more play. On top of that giving combo decks the ability to find what they need whether they're down a card or not doesn't matter once they have what they need they go off that's the point of a combo so it won't matter if they are still going down on a card or two to find their pieces if they can just find them they win the game. Devoted vizier is a two card combo that wins when that combo hits the table. All they have to do is mole and find the two pieces and when you can look at a fresh 7 every time and get rid of what you don't need they just get there 2 combo pieces in the hand and win. Neo brand we'll just do the same thing and get griselbrand out and I don't know how we deal with that outside of path and they can just nourishing Shoal their way away from us. Tron will naturally find the three lands easier and dealing with corn and wurmcoil isn't great either especially if they are able to form their hand to have it. I'm not saying that they will get it every time because of the new Mulligan rule nor am I saying they won't flood or still find a way to be Mana screwed but personally I think it dramatically helps most decks in the format except us. And I also agree with the quoted post that if they're going to allow the format to break their rule of being a turn four or five format and consistently be that way then we need something that hits harder in order to even think about competing against turn two or three wins. Even infect now will be winning on turn with a much higher consistency if they find the right cards. They now have that one Mana instant that turns a creature into a craw worm so all the sudden you're turn one glistener elf is a turn to six four with infect and all they need is might of old krosa or the one that gives + 4 + 4 off of landfall
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BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
3 Sunbaked Canyon
3 Inspiring Vantage
3 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
Anyone else have put in some tests with the canyons?
10 fetch
4 sunbaked canyon
3 mountains
2 sacred foundry
basically, i will switch all 4 inspiring vantage for 4 sunbaked canyon.
I still want a lot of fetch for grim lavamencer and landfall searing blaze.
I also want a lot of fetch to get a sacred foundry in the case that i need to crack my sunbaked canyon (and it's my only white source).
I believe that the advantage to draw a card when you are in topdeck mode is greater than the disadvantage of taking some damage in early game
will burn be better, neutral or less good now ?
For us, i believe it will be neutral ... because our deck is abour 20 lands and 40 bolts, the mulligan rule will not change that much (unless we draw like 4 lands/3spells and that would have been a mulligan anyway)
What kind of decks will this rule advantage, and what kind of decks will it disadvantage ?
Because it might be a case of rock/paper/scissors here ...
For example, if it helps Tron or scapeshift and everyone starts playing that, since we have a good matchup against that, it will be "good" for us...
If Tron can sculpt natural Tron more easily, I think we're not quite as favored as we are now.
It's more of a meta call than about the rule itself. Depending on the way the meta shifts, Burn could actually slightly benefit from the impact of the new rule. W&S.
Also, how good is Skewer? I’ve run into trouble casting it against Grixis Shadow because creatures just can’t get in for damage when I need them to. Always getting stopped by removal or giant blockers.
I think Skewer is better in a deck with a higher density of 1 CMC spells, to enable Spectacle. Removing Helix for Shard Volley and Light Up The Stage serves both purpose (Light Up to get more spells, and Shard + Skewer to end the game fast with a flurry of cheap but effective spells). BTW, you know that you don’t have to deal combat damage to trigger Spectacle? Burning the dome, or opponent triggering Eidolon on your turn will allow you to cast Skewer for 1 mana.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I don’t see things that way. The new London Mulligan will only make other decks more consistent when they are at less than 7 cards. Since Burn is renowned for being consistent with the opening 7, and the new rule is likely to encourage players to Mulligan more aggressively, we should have more gas than them to close the game in our favor. This is more true with the new Horizon Lands. Trading lands for Burn spells is what we always wanted. But on top of that, opponents will also play these lands in their decks, and take damage every time they tap for mana. The extra card for us and extra damage self-inflicted by opponents will both play in our favor.
I’m very happy with the new Mulligan. For each free wins we’ll not get to opponents that screw up, flood out or short out, we’ll not get a loss in similar fashion. All in all, we’ll play more Magic (and less rage), and this is very, very, very fine with me.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.