I recently went to 19 lands with 2 Faithless Lootings instead of a Flooded Grove and a Serum Visions. What I found was that I was finding far less lands than usual. Perhaps it was variance but comparing to RUG Delver where you only want 3 lands and seldom 4, it felt like I had too few lands (less than 4) or way too many (7 or more). I'll keep you posted.
As for your build, it looks like a lot of fun and has access to a lot of clean answers to creatures, planeswalkers, etc. I can only imagine that Assassin's Trophy will make things better and help round out the deck. But expect to get your aether vial trophied--which may mean more basics. I don't know. I see Trophy potentially posing a massive threat to our decks, especially against the Temur versions. Temur seems to be becoming more of a meme as well these days, which is a shame.
Maindeck has 61 cards until I figure out what to cut. Sideboard is going to be in flux for a while. Not sure what to do with Unmoored Ego at this point. Ashiok has been anywhere from amazing to a pseudo removal/fog effect at 3 CMC. Garruk absolutely won me games in Stockholm. He was a last minute addition in anticipation for the amount of control I was expecting. He paid dividends. Snare seems better now than Spell Pierce. One land, likely the third Breeding Pool, need to be a creature land. While I'm not fond of a CitP tapped land slowing the deck down even further, it would be nice to have a hard to remove threat.
The deck is an absolute blast, but it's also a grind. You aren't going to just roll opponents, though there are games where you land a Goyf and just Remand and Cryptic to victory. Most games take a bit of finesse, but they're largely winnable. This list folds to Burn, but one can add in a variety of spells to change that. It has plenty of ways to keep creatures off the board, as long as they come in small doses. The moment your opponent throws down three or more, the deck starts to back pedal hard and fast. I'm using Explosives now, but I can see how Damnation or similar effect would be better in creature heavy metas.
Hi all! I've posted here previously with a link to some of my decklists and notes. My apologies for not following up with deeper thoughts, despite having had many in the interim.
I've been tinkering a bit more with the deck, and have generated quite a number of ideas, ranging from reasonable to outright silly/insane (which I can share at another time). For starters though, I put together what I dubbed a "clean" version of BUG eternal command, tweaked to take advantage of Assassin's Trophy. See below:
I'm not 100% sure if the above is correct (i.e. what I actually played), but it's at most +/- one maindeck card. I went 4-0 at yesterday's FNM, beating mono-red prison (2-0), mono-blue tron (2-1), GW valuetown (2-0) and KCI (2-1).
Some loose thoughts about certain card choices, concepts, and ideas:
1) Aether Vial. I've played with this card nonstop for something like 5 years now, having played a ton of D&T in Modern and Legacy. As a result, I am always starkly wary of how much of liability it can be in the midgame. As a result, I've tried to think of numerous ways to mitigate the possibility of drawing useless Vials in the midgame.
2) To this end, Collective Brutality is an amazing card, and I think less than 2 is a mistake. There are lots of reasons for this:
The main conundrum that has plagued the BUG colours in Modern for eternity is that even though there is a lot of natural synergy between those colours - there is actually a lot of conflicting aspects as well, particular among the best cards of those colours. The idea of midrange naturally suggests taking advantage of black cards like Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughtseize and Liliana of the Veil, while blue offers countermagic and Snapcaster Mage. I'm of the belief that these cards don't work well together (hand disruption + LotV incentivizes depleting both players' hands and winning via sheer card quality, which simultaneously conflicts with Cryptic Command, not to mention Aether Vial haha), so you have to pick a primary approach and stick with it. So by virtue of building around Aether Vial/Eternal Witness/Cryptic Command in the first place, those cards are out of the question (without being excessively fancy). In this way, Collective Brutality fills all the gaps. It is an outlet for extra Aether Vials, it's spot removal, and to the above point, it offers hand disruption without pulling the deck heavily into that direction. It also plays well with Delirium (more on this below).
3) Traverse the Ulvenwald. I strongly think that this card belongs in this deck - for multiple very important reasons:
i) Again, by virtue of having Aether Vial, extra Aether Vials should go to the graveyard if possible. This makes (or should make) Delirium an easy thing to obtain.
ii) More importantly, Eternal Command is a deck that simultaneously plays Vial while playing few creatures - which is self conflicting in a way. Being able to traverse for a creature bridges the gap between taking advantage of Vial and the low creature count. Not to mention the selection as well.
iii) Another self-conflicting aspect of the deck is that by virtue of being a Vial deck, the land count is low. The majority of the deck takes advantage of the immense mana advantage you get against the opponent (Vial cheats on mana, spells are cheap, etc), which incentivizes a low land count. But at the same time, you need to hit your fourth landdrop to play the primary card in the deck! Lots of internal conflict. Again, Traverse is the perfect midgame card to glue everything together - it serves as an additional landdrop if need be, it can find the creature you need, it can be flashed back, etc.
I've tried a wild assortment of ideas to take this idea further, including:
i) Courser of Kruphix. It's an enchantment for Delirium and Goyf, plays nicely with Confidant - both by seeing the top card as well as lifegain, and increases chances of shuffling away dead topdecks like Vial. But ultimately I decided against it, due to the deck naturally not wanting to play a lot of lands. Same logic goes against playing Tireless Tracker main.
ii) Mishra's Bauble. I still like the idea, but at the end of the day, I figured there was simply not enough room in the deck. If I had the balls to shave a land or two, I might include 2x of them or something.
iii) Liliana, the Last Hope. Another card type, plays well with the graveyard. Decided against it for now in the interest of keeping the maindeck "clean". Could see myself cutting a land for her.
iv) Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Same as above, but too mana-costly. The main reason for not trying it maindeck was that it strays away too much from the deck's primary game-plan. So I decided to try it (for now) in the board, in the event that my post-board plan shifts to grinding more.
v) Bitterblossom. Enchantment card type, and is a threat. A great turn 2 follow-up to Vial. But I decided to put it in the board, since its impact varies drastically based on matchup.
vi) Search for Azcanta. I picked this maindeck instead of Bitterblossom because pre-board, the opponent doesn't have as much graveyard hate. In that case, it also serves as a pseudo land-drop (and blue!). It's equally, if not more, potent as a turn 2 follow-up to Vial. The big reason here though is that I want the maindeck to abuse the graveyard, and have the option to shift the deck away from the graveyard post-board if need be (i.e. Bitterblossom out of the board since it's a non-graveyard-based threat that can just win the game on its own).
4) Dark Confidant. Maybe this card doesn't necessarily need a discussion, but I think there are some subtleties here. The main thing is that as with all Aether Vial decks, with an early Vial, mana expenditure is massively accelerated - but as a result, gas depletes similarly quickly. Dark Confidant is the perfect card to bridge this gap. There also seems to be an interesting dynamic where it's a removal lightning rod, and thus makes for a very good early game Eternal Witness target.
I won't comment in specifics about the sideboard, since the majority of it are just random experimental choices. But I think the following are important to consider:
i) 4 Leyline of the Void. I think this is absolutely a no-brainer, especially right now. There are so many strong graveyard-based decks right now (Dredge, Hollow One, Mardu Pyromancer, KCI, etc) that you simply cannot beat otherwise. It's an auto-win there. And in line with the aforementioned logic with Delirium and Traverse, there are plenty of ways of take advantage of extra copies later in the game.
ii) Despite that, I think it's worthwhile to incorporate non-graveyard-based win conditions post-board. Bitterblossom against Control/Midrange, planeswalkers, creatures (not sure Tireless Tracker is actually that good), etc. And the rest is just flex. Appropriate countermagic, board sweepers for assuming the control position.
All in all, the deck is powerful, and is flexible enough to re-configure into all sorts of approaches post-board. For example: you can play a tempo-oriented game against Tron by sticking a threat and countering you way to victory. You can outgrind midrange/control opponents. You can play the control role against aggro decks.
This was by no means comprehensive, but hopefully this was insightful. Happy to discuss further, answer questions, etc.
Nice to hear from you again 2imu!
I'm not playing the BUG version so I don't really feel in the position to comment on all the stuff you wrote.
It's nice to see someone agreeing on Traverse with me, I've been a proponent of playing it as a 1x pretty much since it was printed exactly for the reasons you stated, it just bridges so many conflicts this deck has quite well (virtually higher creature count while also being nice with snap and enabling a loer land count...).
Since you're also running Grim Flayer, 2x Baubles seem really worth testing. The 22 lands you're running are rather on the safe side actually. We run 4x SV (2x= 1 land according to the Xerox rule) + Aether Vials + Traverse. 21 lands is easily doable (and has been kind of the consensus on this thread). If have played 20 lands with success.
So shaving a land (probably a fetch, 10 is a lot) and another card for 2x Baubles seems worth trying out.
How good has Trophy been for you? With all the recursion between Snap and E-Wit, does this deck really want 3?
I'm also sceptical regarding the Dark Confidants. Even Jund hasn't really been playing it lately and that deck can make better use of it than we can (more lands, more a of 'let's get into topdeck mode' game plan). I don't think it's well positioned right now, fast decks kill you before he actually gains you an advantage, grindy decks easily kill it on sight. On top of that we already have quite the amount of CA between Snaps, E-Wits, Commands, SfA...
Getting rid of Bob would free a lot of space for some meta answers like Spell Snare or Dismember.
Man I haven't seen a list that made we give BUG a chance again in a while, but maybe the combination of more threats (grim flayer) and Trophy leaves the Tron and combo MUs good enough to not have Bolt.
Hey guys! Curious about thoughts on grim flayer being in the deck. My preference from the last list posted would be to drop confidants and flayers in favour of 2 clique, some spell snares and a flex card, prob a last hope to get more use of azcanta and gy synergy as mentioned 2imu would like to try. Alternatively if it's clocks that the bug list wants to see, (thing is I don't know) I'd reconfigure the following deck list a bit. I'm just used to more control.
Had my first go with eternal command playing the deck I posted above. It was fun to play but I didn't do well, (expected for my first time playing) unusual meta tonight which made things super fun! I lost to dredge and goblins x2. I beat swans. Notes I took away from the night, Liliana was always to slow, better saved in the side board for games she shines, I spent the night in a lot of spots wanting mana leak and to a lesser extent wanting threats to close out games faster. I think trophy is a great card for this deck. I drew it often and played it often mostly out of necessity though. Sadly, it would be a nonbo with leak... :/
Some refining to come and I want to try the rug version too.
Edit: having finally had a chance to read some of the thread or seems my initial thought on omitting flayer are very wrong. Looking forward to trying again with them in.
Hey everyone, I've been playing Temur Eternal Command for a while and just wanted to ask what everyone thinks about a few things based on the current meta.
Counter suites: In this current meta with lots of Cavern of Souls decks, do we forego most of the counter suite and move to a more interactive spell base with more removal, i.e. Vapor Snag, Electrolyze, etc. Also is Remand better than Mana Leak now? Would specific creature bases change this?
In my opinion, if you have a metagame full of Caverns and in general cards, which do not really care about Counter Spells (Aether Vial e.g.) I would switch over to the BUG version, better removal and also more interesting cards to chose from.
Otherwise, I would currently up the number of Spell Snare (to 3 at least), since there are so many 2 CMC cards floating around. Also, I would still play Leak over Remand, simply because of the fact, that you need it in several match-ups, be it Storm, KCI, Midrange and somewhat the Control match-up (here depends on what bombs he is playing).
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What I play or have:
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
For sure. In just my first night of playing with him in the deck he was just straight velocity. I think the actual magic is a result of him being a two drop. An early body we can cast for mana if needed or better yet give the ability to hold up mana leak early to play him out via vial feels really nice, the early pressure potential he gives the deck plus potential "ponderesque" ability or fueling the graveyard for either himself, or Goyf, or snapcaster, or witness...That's a REALLY powerful tool that we take a lot of advantage of. Typically people don't like the term removal magnet but hear me out. I'd rather he eats the removal spell than my Goyfs or even my witnesses if I'm trying to set up a soft lock. And until we are able to finally pitch a vial we need a creature in the yard for both Goyf and delirium.
Now we need a similar creature in rug colors.
I hope that's enough to satisfy your inquiry.
Fun story, last night playing against sramioos, once I knew I had control of the game I actually used flayers ability to dump my sideborded bitterblossom and Lily last hope into the gy for a 8/9 Goyf... Dude just scooped it up. #makegoyfgreatagain
For me, the important aspect is: He is a freaking good two drop.
This basically means, that you can increase your threat density on the most important slot (the two drop slot), since it is the sweetspot between having Vial and going Threat + something different. Furthermore, having the combination of Dark Confidant (IF you want to run him, would need to test it to get a feeling, if he is worth it), Goyf, Flayer, Snappy and Ooze gives you 12+ good two drops (4 Goyf, 3 Confidant, 3 Flayer, 2 Snappy would be my current set-up) while each one of them is in one form or another a must answer card. Flayer is, regarding CA in the same league as Confidant, instead of giving you a raw card per turn, he gives you raw card quality, something the RUG version for example lacks.
Simply said: Flayer allows you to play more efficient with mana, cards and removal (trample says hi).
To be honest, Flayer was the main reason, why I tested the BUG version to begin with
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What I play or have:
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Some very valid points Kathal, people always underestimate how important it is that Goyf is a 2 drop.
So 2 or 3 Flayers?
And what do you guys think about 2x Mishra's Bauble to enable him faster (as well as growing Goyf and supporting a 1x Traverse)?
I think 2 or 3 flayers will almost be matchup dependent. I think keeping the threat density higher is best. Again he just does so much for the deck. I would LOVE to run bauble but I am SERIOUSLY hard pressed to find room for them! I REALLY like Spell Snare right now and I'm operating fine at 20 land + 1x Traverse Perhaps with more practice if I find flayer is connecting and helping see more cards I could go lower... I'm curious if going down to 3 snaps is viable.
I get that, but isn't it a better card when lingering souls or affinity is good? As a removal spell right now I'd want to argue it's too slow and doesn't hit for 3. Or is it just ALOT better because it gets paired with a blocker most of the time? I haven't played with electrolyze long enough to know.