I'm a Burn player and I'm here to inquire all about the Burn - Humans match up.
What do you not want to see out of Burn? I presume that you don't want to see Searing Blazes left and right, but what else do you not like to see? In your opinion, is Eidolon of the Great Revel strong, or do you just bank on Vial and not worry about it?
What creatures do you view as your most important ones /what should I prioritize as "must kill"(I generally prioritize the fastest clocks)? What should I play around?
What is your sideboard strategy? Do you cut vial or keep it? What typical sideboard cards do you bring in?
What are your favorite lines or plays against Burn?
In your opinion, is Eidolon of the Great Revel strong, or do you just bank on Vial and not worry about it?
He's good for you when you're ahead and bad when you're behind (which is true for any MU, I suppose). When I'm on the play, Eidolon doesn't bother me and If I were playing Burn, I would cut it. The true question is whether you want it in G3. Also, if the card you replace it with is better in the MU, then cut the eidolons.
What creatures do you view as your most important ones /what should I prioritize as "must kill"(I generally prioritize the fastest clocks)? What should I play around?
Ref Mage stops the bleeding quite nicely (bounces one creature and blocks another if needed). You might face both Auriok Champ and Knight of Autumn very soon. The latter gives Skullcrack effects value again. Sin Collector will strip you one card, just be aware of it. It's going to be about the 3-drops, so beware of a Vial on 3. Once we start to put creatures - plural - your creatures will do nothing. Grim Lavamancer is good for you.
What is your sideboard strategy? Do you cut vial or keep it? What typical sideboard cards do you bring in?
We keep them because it helps us put enough threats, so you can't go on attacking after Searing b'ing our creatures. It also helps playing our lifegain cards or Sin Cols at instant speed at key moments.
Is Ensnaring Bridge a strong enough card that it's worth it for me to play, even though Meddling Mage, Kitesail Freebooter, or Reclamation Sage could prevent it? Do you see board wipes like Anger of the Gods from Burn, and do you find them strong ways to combat your strategy?
Bridge won't be good against us once we know about it, but at first we don't expect Burn to bring it in. Knight of Autumn will now be a strong card in this case. To be fair, you are the agressor for the most part, we try to stop the bleeding first while adding stuff on the board. It can take a while. Bridge could instead be the extra burn spell you need to kill us. Weird strat in my opinion.
Anger kills your creatures, it's not a good card for your deck. It exiles them, so a Lavamancer played afterwrath couldn't take advantage of their corpses in the yard.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Went undefeated twice in Modern League tonight. Not only that, one of the leagues I 2-0'd every single game.
Let me tell you guys a hard truth: Plaguecrafter is the real deal. Against midrange and control matchups, he often takes their only threat or planeswalker while buffing your own threats. Aether Vial makes him even nastier on draw and combat steps.
Yeah, Plaguecrafter seems like the most eligible human from GRN. I'm testing a lot of standard right now, I'm out of Modern, no time spent testing the new guy. It's a simple out to Tron threats, and is good via Vial in UWx games (resp to removal + makes them discard a card).
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Is Tezzerator Prison just an impossible matchup? They very often have turn 2, sometimes turn 1 Ensnaring Bridge, Engineered Explosives and/or Ghirapur Aether Grid, almost always with a Welding Jar backing it all up.
I don't even know what a T1 Bridge deck is... UB Tezz has Bridges but it comes out on turn 3-4 usually (and sometimes you never see one, I know because I've played this archetype for a year). G1 is tough because Noble is the only way to grind after-bridge. Med Mage and FreeB are key as well before the card etbs. Post-SB you can grind and hopefully get rid of the bridges with a full board ready to alpha-strike. Humans is indeed unfavored overall. Hopefully it's a fringe deck.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Interesting article that explores some of the new GRN cards, with a nod to plaguecrafter and knight of autumn, which have already been mentioned in this forum. Interested in the more aggressive list posted, as I really enjoy playing Aggro, however not sure how much legs it will have given how effective the current list is.
Tried a recent build with lead the stampede (instead of Bugler). Changed the manabase to cut some ziggurats and add mana confluence.... when it worked, it won me the game. When it didn’t, I’m pretty positive it cost me the game. Feel that it might be a line of play somewhere, just not sure how yet.... will keep experimenting.
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Cheeri0s is the breakfast of championsWRU Everyone loves an angry mobRWG Why so Bloo?RU
Interesting article that explores some of the new GRN cards, with a nod to plaguecrafter and knight of autumn, which have already been mentioned in this forum. Interested in the more aggressive list posted, as I really enjoy playing Aggro, however not sure how much legs it will have given how effective the current list is.
Dire Fleet Daredevil was originally a no go for me, but I've had a lot of recent success after being badgered into trying it. Sometimes I win the game off the back of a stolen kill/burn spell. He's not amazing, usually only stealing 1 and 2-cmc cards, but is incredibly versatile so I think he'll sit as a 1-of for now. Admittedly I haven't pulled Kessig Malcontents enough to see if he holds his weight, but I want to keep testing him.
My biggest take away from the article was we want consistent aggression more than anything else most of the time. So I've added a Mayor of Avabruck to act as a 5th Thalia's Lieutenant. So far he's been absolutely awesome, occasionally pumping out Wolf tokens in grindier games, eating kill spells, and other times helping squeak damage through.
My only worry about the deck is not running any Militia Bugler. If I really start to miss him, I'll probably cut a Sin Collector and Anafenza from the side for 2 copies.
The changes I make so far are the Island, that I finally add because of Trophy coming out. Plague C and Autumn in the SB, and that's it. I doubt I'll come back to Mayor or Kessig M since it doesn't really fix anything the deck has toruble with. My SB :
I'm with you on the Island, but tbh i havn't given the sideboard much thought appart from the obvious swapping of Reclamation Sage for Knight of Autumn.
Fellas, I think it's time we discuss Tajic, Legion's Edge. He's been in the main deck of the last two highest placing SCG Open Humans lists. Granted, they were Team Constructed Opens, but it's still something to consider. There's a lot of decks playing non-creature damage right now with burn spells, Walking Ballista, Anger of the Gods, ect. Only nonbo I can see is with our current land setup, we can't give him First Strike. But that may be a win-more clause anyway.
I'm currently trying out one in the sideboard to see how it goes.
What else ? The problem I have with this card is that it's not better than Selfless Spirit. I'm not sold but I'm also unaware of what Modern looks like right now.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
What else ? The problem I have with this card is that it's not better than Selfless Spirit. I'm not sold but I'm also unaware of what Modern looks like right now.
I think Tajic, Legion's Edge should be looked at as a hasty Anafenza, the Foremost (both having similar bolstering mechanics) with additional text that may help against red removal. Being able to essentially be 4 power the turn it hits the board is another way to win games out of nowhere. In other words, look at the additional damage he can help push through instead of the protection that is (sometimes) granted.
I think Tajic, Legion's Edge should be looked at as a hasty Anafenza, the Foremost
Thing is Ana isn't played very much, and fits in the GY hate slot. VS the graveyard strategies, it happens that other slots are at least equally as good as Ana (Staticaster, Sin Col, Auriok Champ etc...). As an extra aggro dude, what MUs does it improve ? I can think of Tron, but is it better than other guys in the SB ? Like I and other said many times, good SB Humans are good because they overlap in several MUs. If Tajic only answers Anger of the Gods decks, I ain't sure it will do enough, especially because those decks are often times combo decks (Valakut, Amulet) or Prison decks (with Bridge & wraths).
I agree on the protective assessment of Tajic, Legion's Edge in the current meta, though he does require an extra bolt to take down your best creature. Also the aggressive aspect of the card is not to be underestimated.
T1 Champion into T2 Lieutenant into T3 Tajic results in 10power attacking on that turn, whereas when curving into Mantis Rider it's "only" 9.
Downsides: He's easilly blocked, the activated ability is hard to activate in Humans and imho, the card advantage from Militia Bugler is more valuable.
For now, he doesn't make the cut in my deck but he might when red becomes more popular.
I'm a Burn player and I'm here to inquire all about the Burn - Humans match up.
What do you not want to see out of Burn? I presume that you don't want to see Searing Blazes left and right, but what else do you not like to see? In your opinion, is Eidolon of the Great Revel strong, or do you just bank on Vial and not worry about it?
What creatures do you view as your most important ones /what should I prioritize as "must kill"(I generally prioritize the fastest clocks)? What should I play around?
What is your sideboard strategy? Do you cut vial or keep it? What typical sideboard cards do you bring in?
What are your favorite lines or plays against Burn?
From my perspective, I'm in a strong position with Searing Blaze and Grim Lavamancer, and I need to control your board with the creatures that grow large as the highest priority targets (Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant). Is Ensnaring Bridge a strong enough card that it's worth it for me to play, even though Meddling Mage, Kitesail Freebooter, or Reclamatiion Sage could prevent it? Do you see board wipes like Anger of the Gods from Burn, and do you find them strong ways to combat your strategy?
Thank you for your time. I look forward to reading your insights.
He's good for you when you're ahead and bad when you're behind (which is true for any MU, I suppose). When I'm on the play, Eidolon doesn't bother me and If I were playing Burn, I would cut it. The true question is whether you want it in G3. Also, if the card you replace it with is better in the MU, then cut the eidolons.
Ref Mage stops the bleeding quite nicely (bounces one creature and blocks another if needed). You might face both Auriok Champ and Knight of Autumn very soon. The latter gives Skullcrack effects value again. Sin Collector will strip you one card, just be aware of it. It's going to be about the 3-drops, so beware of a Vial on 3. Once we start to put creatures - plural - your creatures will do nothing. Grim Lavamancer is good for you.
We keep them because it helps us put enough threats, so you can't go on attacking after Searing b'ing our creatures. It also helps playing our lifegain cards or Sin Cols at instant speed at key moments.
Bridge won't be good against us once we know about it, but at first we don't expect Burn to bring it in. Knight of Autumn will now be a strong card in this case. To be fair, you are the agressor for the most part, we try to stop the bleeding first while adding stuff on the board. It can take a while. Bridge could instead be the extra burn spell you need to kill us. Weird strat in my opinion.
Anger kills your creatures, it's not a good card for your deck. It exiles them, so a Lavamancer played afterwrath couldn't take advantage of their corpses in the yard.
I'm rethinking Militia Bugler lately, when it's good it's great but a lot of times I feel like I would rather just have a big Thalia instead.
Let me tell you guys a hard truth: Plaguecrafter is the real deal. Against midrange and control matchups, he often takes their only threat or planeswalker while buffing your own threats. Aether Vial makes him even nastier on draw and combat steps.
I'm currently running this:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Meddling Mage
2 Militia Bugler
4 Reflector Mage
4 Mantis Rider
4 Aether Vial
The Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Seachrome Coast
4 Unclaimed Territory
The Other Stuff
1 Gut Shot
1 Auriok Champion
1 Damping Sphere
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Dismember
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Knight of Autumn
2 Plaguecrafter
2 Sin Collector
1 Riders of Gavony
Originally I had 2 Auriok Champion, figured I could cut one now that we have Knight of Autumn. I also cut a Gaddock Teeg because of Plaguecrafter.
Interesting article that explores some of the new GRN cards, with a nod to plaguecrafter and knight of autumn, which have already been mentioned in this forum. Interested in the more aggressive list posted, as I really enjoy playing Aggro, however not sure how much legs it will have given how effective the current list is.
Anyone else going back to adding kessig malcontents and direfleet daredevil?
Tried a recent build with lead the stampede (instead of Bugler). Changed the manabase to cut some ziggurats and add mana confluence.... when it worked, it won me the game. When it didn’t, I’m pretty positive it cost me the game. Feel that it might be a line of play somewhere, just not sure how yet.... will keep experimenting.
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
Based on that article and recent testing, I've been rolling with this build:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Meddling Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
1 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Mantis Rider
1 Kessig Malcontents
4 Reflector Mage
4 Aether Vial
The Locations
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Seachrome Coast
4 Unclaimed Territory
The Substitute Men
2 Dismember
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 Izzet Staticaster
3 Sin Collector
3 Knight of Autumn
1 Damping Sphere
1 Whirler Rogue
Dire Fleet Daredevil was originally a no go for me, but I've had a lot of recent success after being badgered into trying it. Sometimes I win the game off the back of a stolen kill/burn spell. He's not amazing, usually only stealing 1 and 2-cmc cards, but is incredibly versatile so I think he'll sit as a 1-of for now. Admittedly I haven't pulled Kessig Malcontents enough to see if he holds his weight, but I want to keep testing him.
My biggest take away from the article was we want consistent aggression more than anything else most of the time. So I've added a Mayor of Avabruck to act as a 5th Thalia's Lieutenant. So far he's been absolutely awesome, occasionally pumping out Wolf tokens in grindier games, eating kill spells, and other times helping squeak damage through.
My only worry about the deck is not running any Militia Bugler. If I really start to miss him, I'll probably cut a Sin Collector and Anafenza from the side for 2 copies.
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dismember
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Knight of Autumn
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Plaguecrafter
2 Sin Collector
Maybe I should cut a Kataki for a Sin Collector #3 ? Will depend whether BG decks get insanely popular.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I'm currently trying out one in the sideboard to see how it goes.
Affinity (Whipflare, Galvanic Blast, Ghirapur Aether Grid)
Valakut (Anger of the Gods, Lightning Bolt)
What else ? The problem I have with this card is that it's not better than Selfless Spirit. I'm not sold but I'm also unaware of what Modern looks like right now.
I think Tajic, Legion's Edge should be looked at as a hasty Anafenza, the Foremost (both having similar bolstering mechanics) with additional text that may help against red removal. Being able to essentially be 4 power the turn it hits the board is another way to win games out of nowhere. In other words, look at the additional damage he can help push through instead of the protection that is (sometimes) granted.
Right so his 3 and +1+1 to something else thats (assumedly) swinging in with him = 4
Thing is Ana isn't played very much, and fits in the GY hate slot. VS the graveyard strategies, it happens that other slots are at least equally as good as Ana (Staticaster, Sin Col, Auriok Champ etc...). As an extra aggro dude, what MUs does it improve ? I can think of Tron, but is it better than other guys in the SB ? Like I and other said many times, good SB Humans are good because they overlap in several MUs. If Tajic only answers Anger of the Gods decks, I ain't sure it will do enough, especially because those decks are often times combo decks (Valakut, Amulet) or Prison decks (with Bridge & wraths).
To me, it has to be compared to either Selfless Spirit (anti-wrath) or Mantis Rider / Phantasmal Image (aggro top curve). With Fatal Push and Assassin's trophy decks going up in popularity, red removal won't be the main thing to fight, so Tajic might just be too cute.
T1 Champion into T2 Lieutenant into T3 Tajic results in 10power attacking on that turn, whereas when curving into Mantis Rider it's "only" 9.
Downsides: He's easilly blocked, the activated ability is hard to activate in Humans and imho, the card advantage from Militia Bugler is more valuable.
For now, he doesn't make the cut in my deck but he might when red becomes more popular.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -