Hi Humans players. Control player here graciously asking for help beating your deck.
Im currently running both verdict and settle main as well as a full set of paths, but Meddling mage is really meddling with me.
What are the cards you are afraid of most from control players?
Assuming we're talking only about UWx Control, then I do the same as purklefluff: my first Meddler gets set on Path no matter what, then I either Freeboot or blindly name Verdict with a 2nd Meddler. If I dont have much hand info, I'm extremely careful about putting too much on the board. But, a strat I've used a few times is to overextend and force them to tap out for a sweeper, while sandbagging a Mantis Rider in hand for the finish directly after. Oo, also, Field of Ruin and Spreading Seas can be pretty damn good against us, but I'm not sure what you side in/out...and that plan loses its shine if we have a Vial out, so it can be risky.
Quote from Phil
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Speaking of Grafdigger's cage, is it really better than relic of progenitus? Grafdigger is good, but it doesn't stop Tarmogoyf or Knight of the Reliquary from getting big, and relic draws a card, which is always nice...I know we're at 19 lands, so keeping 1 mana up for maybe a snapcaster mage entering the battlefield feels bad, but it feels like relic is just a better utility card.
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Wow nevermind I just found out Cage basically negates collected company and chord of calling as well as being graveyard hate...crazy.
Lol precisely. Also stops Dredge, Living End, Faithless Looting flashback, Lingering Souls flashback, Past in Flames, etc. Lotta uses. Still I only have 1 SB, cause we only really care about decks that wanna combo with it, not value grind with it. (Except Lingering Souls, that card is our bane)
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Quote from Phil
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Wow nevermind I just found out Cage basically negates collected company and chord of calling as well as being graveyard hate...crazy.
Lol precisely. Also stops Dredge, Living End, Faithless Looting flashback, Lingering Souls flashback, Past in Flames, etc. Lotta uses. Still I only have 1 SB, cause we only really care about decks that wanna combo with it, not value grind with it. (Except Lingering Souls, that card is our bane)
Wow nevermind I just found out Cage basically negates collected company and chord of calling as well as being graveyard hate...crazy.
Lol precisely. Also stops Dredge, Living End, Faithless Looting flashback, Lingering Souls flashback, Past in Flames, etc. Lotta uses. Still I only have 1 SB, cause we only really care about decks that wanna combo with it, not value grind with it. (Except Lingering Souls, that card is our bane)
Thx, my bad.
Anyways, I'm torn on whether or not to drop my 2x Kessig Malcontents and move my 2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar from SB to MD, seeing as I want them in so many post-SB MUs. Partly because Thalia is pretty good in the mirror and I expect to play the mirror. But then I assume Malcontents also is, since you can push damage through without combat. All theoretical though, as I've never played the mirror yet
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Quote from Phil
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
How do you think the unbannings effect Humans? I realize that's a broad question, but will it change the meta enough that pushes humans out? I hope not.
Dont think so. We still have Cavern of Souls to avoid counters and some good disruption counter in the form of Meddling Mage and/or Kitesail Freeraider
Dont think so. We still have Cavern of Souls to avoid counters and some good disruption counter in the form of Meddling Mage and/or Kitesail Freeraider
What are your answers to boggles?
Thalia will slow Boggles down. Are Kitesail Freebooter and Meddling Mage enough to disrupt Boggles? Maybe the solution is to learn how to play the matchup, and copy these with Phantasmal Image (instead of Lieutenant and Rider like we usually do). Field Marshal could be a tribal solution to block their big attackers. Having first strike on our side will just level the field, and force trades (we'll lose a few Humans, but they'll lose their attacker and its enchantments). But be wary if they have Totem Armor... Blessed Alliance could be our only good solution post SB. It's good too vs Burn, and probably easier to cast for us than black sacrifice spells.
Edit : What about Brave the Elements or Repel the Abominble? We don't have access to Deflecting Palm, which would be the best option against a giant attacker with lifelink and totem armor. But Repel could do the job vs Boggles, and be helpful in many other matchups (Burn, Shadow, Affinity, etc.). It costs 2, what it does for us is quite awesome, no?
The match against Bogles is more die-roll dependent than some matches.
Thalia is great vs. Bogles and she really slows them way down when we land her T2 on the play. A blind Meddling Mage should probably name Daybreak Coronet (they play 4x and it's by far their best win con), Rancor (4x, neutralizes chumps, never goes away), or maybe Spirit Mantle or Gryff's Boon which both give evasion.
If you can keep them off lifelink (and vigilance as well) then it is totally possible to race them. T1 Champion is very good here and an ideal curve might look like T1 Champion, T2 Meddling (if on the draw, name Coronet) or Thalia (if on the play) and Champion swings for 2, T3 another 2 CMC dude (Mage, Freebooter, Phantasmal Image) plus Hierarch, and Champion swings for 5-6 depending on the exact sequence. For T4 you have 4-5 mana available and Champion is potentially looking at swinging in the double digits here.
Non-creature spells in the sideboard that require colored mana to cast (even if it's only W) seem like a trap to me. In a Vial build, even assuming the spell IS white, you just can't count on being able to play those since you have only seven lands and four Hierarchs to pay for them. Maybe in the CoCo lists spells like Brave the Elements and Repel the Abominable could see play as a way to resist red damage-based sweepers and play combat tricks. But Selfless Spirit (with 11 lands to cast it, plus Hierarchs, plus Vials) seems much better to me as a general sideboard answer.
If your meta has a lot of Boggles, play 1 or 2 Patrician's Scorn.
As for the changes in meta with the banlist update, I think Jeskai, UW and Jund are the first to see a raise in numbers, because they are the obvious decks for Jace and BBE already on the meta. Jund and Jeskai are bad matchups for us and UW, for the few times I played, I felt favored (less early removal, really dependant on sweepers). I don't know if Temur or Sultai midrange will be a thing, but both of them seems like would be rough matchups (Bolt/Electrolyze/Anger on Temur, Push/Decay/Pulse on Sultai, toghether with Jace).
Thing is, these decks gaining number on the field will prompt big mana decks to fight them, which are usually good matchups for us. We'll just have to wait and see how all that balances in the end.
How do you think the unbannings effect Humans? I realize that's a broad question, but will it change the meta enough that pushes humans out? I hope not.
Jund will make a comeback HARD, and that matchup is a nightmare.
I don't know if Jace will impact the meta a lot, I only have Grixis and Jeskai control in my meta. I'm up in Chalices for now
VS Bogles, Mirran Crusader is the strongest thing one can do to race them. Noble into Crusader is also great VS Elves. Otherwise, Thalia V1 is indeed very useful. Med Mage should name Daybreak Coronet because that's the one enchant we can't beat. In the Coco version, Engineered Explosives is one if not the best card against any go-wide strategy, including Bogles.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is like any 4-5 cmc PW in the format : it's bad to attack it unless it's a sure one-swing riddance. Most of the time, it turns into a race (Nahiri, the Harbinger is a nightmare, Gideon Jura too,...) and we're not favored on average.
BBE and Jund can be more troublesome. It's comparable to facing Collected Company imo. She'll either hit removal or another creature. She can miss by hitting a discard spell, but that's pretty much it. I can also expect the card in Temur Moon and GR Ponza, and I won't like it since mana denial hurt us bad if there's no Vial in play.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Wild idea. Is Bloodbraid Elf the Collected Company we were looking for?
It does pretty much what Company does, but it actually works well with the 12 rainbow lands manabase.
I mean, I know it doesn't give us the luxury of selection. It's like a sorcery-speed Company where one the 2 creatures we get is always going to be a 3/2 with haste, but that could actually be good enough by the time we get to 4 mana. It is a way to get extra reach, and is naturally good vs. counterspells and planeswalkers.
The one big, gigantic, downside I see is that BBE would probably not be able to coexist with Vial. Cascading into a Vial is the quintessence of "meh", and vialing a BBE doesn't trigger cascade. So it's probably one or the other. Just like it was with Company, actually. I think it's worth a test, though.
Except for the fact that it is an Elf, so no 12 rainbow manabase for it. I don't think it's better than Company in Humans and I don't think Company is better than Vial at the moment.
For the same mana cost of 2RG, Huntmaster of the Fells is a far superior choice for our tribe than Bloodbraid Elf. If Huntmaster hasn't made the cut yet in the 75, I strongly doubt the Elf will ever appear in a Human deck list.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Thx, my bad, fixed it up
Assuming we're talking only about UWx Control, then I do the same as purklefluff: my first Meddler gets set on Path no matter what, then I either Freeboot or blindly name Verdict with a 2nd Meddler. If I dont have much hand info, I'm extremely careful about putting too much on the board. But, a strat I've used a few times is to overextend and force them to tap out for a sweeper, while sandbagging a Mantis Rider in hand for the finish directly after. Oo, also, Field of Ruin and Spreading Seas can be pretty damn good against us, but I'm not sure what you side in/out...and that plan loses its shine if we have a Vial out, so it can be risky.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Lol precisely. Also stops Dredge, Living End, Faithless Looting flashback, Lingering Souls flashback, Past in Flames, etc. Lotta uses. Still I only have 1 SB, cause we only really care about decks that wanna combo with it, not value grind with it. (Except Lingering Souls, that card is our bane)
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Thx, my bad.
Anyways, I'm torn on whether or not to drop my 2x Kessig Malcontents and move my 2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar from SB to MD, seeing as I want them in so many post-SB MUs. Partly because Thalia is pretty good in the mirror and I expect to play the mirror. But then I assume Malcontents also is, since you can push damage through without combat. All theoretical though, as I've never played the mirror yet
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
What are your answers to boggles?
Thalia will slow Boggles down. Are Kitesail Freebooter and Meddling Mage enough to disrupt Boggles? Maybe the solution is to learn how to play the matchup, and copy these with Phantasmal Image (instead of Lieutenant and Rider like we usually do). Field Marshal could be a tribal solution to block their big attackers. Having first strike on our side will just level the field, and force trades (we'll lose a few Humans, but they'll lose their attacker and its enchantments). But be wary if they have Totem Armor... Blessed Alliance could be our only good solution post SB. It's good too vs Burn, and probably easier to cast for us than black sacrifice spells.
Edit : What about Brave the Elements or Repel the Abominble? We don't have access to Deflecting Palm, which would be the best option against a giant attacker with lifelink and totem armor. But Repel could do the job vs Boggles, and be helpful in many other matchups (Burn, Shadow, Affinity, etc.). It costs 2, what it does for us is quite awesome, no?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Thalia is great vs. Bogles and she really slows them way down when we land her T2 on the play. A blind Meddling Mage should probably name Daybreak Coronet (they play 4x and it's by far their best win con), Rancor (4x, neutralizes chumps, never goes away), or maybe Spirit Mantle or Gryff's Boon which both give evasion.
If you can keep them off lifelink (and vigilance as well) then it is totally possible to race them. T1 Champion is very good here and an ideal curve might look like T1 Champion, T2 Meddling (if on the draw, name Coronet) or Thalia (if on the play) and Champion swings for 2, T3 another 2 CMC dude (Mage, Freebooter, Phantasmal Image) plus Hierarch, and Champion swings for 5-6 depending on the exact sequence. For T4 you have 4-5 mana available and Champion is potentially looking at swinging in the double digits here.
Non-creature spells in the sideboard that require colored mana to cast (even if it's only W) seem like a trap to me. In a Vial build, even assuming the spell IS white, you just can't count on being able to play those since you have only seven lands and four Hierarchs to pay for them. Maybe in the CoCo lists spells like Brave the Elements and Repel the Abominable could see play as a way to resist red damage-based sweepers and play combat tricks. But Selfless Spirit (with 11 lands to cast it, plus Hierarchs, plus Vials) seems much better to me as a general sideboard answer.
As for the changes in meta with the banlist update, I think Jeskai, UW and Jund are the first to see a raise in numbers, because they are the obvious decks for Jace and BBE already on the meta. Jund and Jeskai are bad matchups for us and UW, for the few times I played, I felt favored (less early removal, really dependant on sweepers). I don't know if Temur or Sultai midrange will be a thing, but both of them seems like would be rough matchups (Bolt/Electrolyze/Anger on Temur, Push/Decay/Pulse on Sultai, toghether with Jace).
Thing is, these decks gaining number on the field will prompt big mana decks to fight them, which are usually good matchups for us. We'll just have to wait and see how all that balances in the end.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Jund will make a comeback HARD, and that matchup is a nightmare.
I don't know if Jace will impact the meta a lot, I only have Grixis and Jeskai control in my meta. I'm up in Chalices for now
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is like any 4-5 cmc PW in the format : it's bad to attack it unless it's a sure one-swing riddance. Most of the time, it turns into a race (Nahiri, the Harbinger is a nightmare, Gideon Jura too,...) and we're not favored on average.
BBE and Jund can be more troublesome. It's comparable to facing Collected Company imo. She'll either hit removal or another creature. She can miss by hitting a discard spell, but that's pretty much it. I can also expect the card in Temur Moon and GR Ponza, and I won't like it since mana denial hurt us bad if there's no Vial in play.
Except for the fact that it is an Elf, so no 12 rainbow manabase for it. I don't think it's better than Company in Humans and I don't think Company is better than Vial at the moment.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
And check out this deck guide : https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/5-color-humans-modern-deck-guide/
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.