I wanted to try Sin Collector to fight against Scapeshift because too many dudes playing it... When Ixalan is released i will try the 2-Mana Human. I think picking any card could be Maindeck better than "just" a sorc or instant. Sin Collector for Mayor of Avabruck
In the Sideboard i replaced the Orzhov Pontiff with Dusk // Dawn. In my meta there aren't that many small creature Decks. I have to deal a lot with EldraziTron or Merfolk. In those matchups i think a massremoval hits them harder than me.
2x Dusk // Dawn for Orhov Pontiff
Some thoughts on match ups:
Scapeshift: It's sometimes hard to race them. Till now i never won a best of 3 against Scapeshift. Lifegain after boarding is just super annoying... For this Matchup I will try Gideons Intvervention over Meddling Mage. I know it's against the Company plan but it stops shooting Valakut in my face. Also it's harder to remove.
BloodMoonDecks: After learning it the hardway i had issues of getting my manabase destroyed. This isn't the problem anymore because i learned to fetch for basics turn 1+2. The only thing i'm not sure: is it better to play 1x basic Island? I had some situations where i had a Reflector Mage in my hand and no access to a blue source because of Blood Moon. The longer I think about it, I'm less convinced.
Jund: I played last friday against "classic" Jund (Lili, Goyf, Ooze) and it was super hard. Game one i played Mirrancusader turn two. This won me the game. Game two he did jund-stuff. Destroyed every creature, attacked my hand and slamed his Goyfs. I think I should boarded in Rest in Peace to shut our graveyards off. His Ooze just went too huge. Any tips for those grindy match ups?
Grixis Shadow: One of my favorite match ups! I played against a lot of competitive dudes wich could play the deck nearly perfect! My MVP is Mirrancrusader! Otherwise we can play Reflector Mage to bounce Tasigur or Gurmi. After boarding i like to bring in Rest in Peace. I would like to go up on 3x Mirrancrusader Main but don't know what to cut.
Aggro: I think we have a better position against aggro-decks. After resolving a Company we should be just fine and have the bigger dudes on the board.
For now i'm super happy with my ModernHumans. I would like to try Naya again and be more aggro but i think the meta isn't the best right now. I think Ixalan will bring some nice cards to our pool and make Humans a real option in modern
*Have you guys seen Todd Stevens' videos on "Abzan Humans." I don't really like the list too much, although admittedly I only watched 1 video so far.
If you're referring to his live stream, then yeah, I did catch that a couple of weeks ago. The list wasn't great at first, but I mostly liked his changes for the 2nd attempt. I was also glad to see that I'm not the only one that doesn't like 2 mana Thalia in these lists. She just doesn't do enough, honestly, and slowing down CoCo is awful. He also encountered the same issues with Bob that we've discussed in this thread, so overall it was good to see how on-track this thread has been .
*Have you guys seen Todd Stevens' videos on "Abzan Humans." I don't really like the list too much, although admittedly I only watched 1 video so far.
If you're referring to his live stream, then yeah, I did catch that a couple of weeks ago. The list wasn't great at first, but I mostly liked his changes for the 2nd attempt. I was also glad to see that I'm not the only one that doesn't like 2 mana Thalia in these lists. She just doesn't do enough, honestly, and slowing down CoCo is awful. He also encountered the same issues with Bob that we've discussed in this thread, so overall it was good to see how on-track this thread has been .
They might have been referring to this video that was posted on the main site.
*Have you guys seen Todd Stevens' videos on "Abzan Humans." I don't really like the list too much, although admittedly I only watched 1 video so far.
If you're referring to his live stream, then yeah, I did catch that a couple of weeks ago. The list wasn't great at first, but I mostly liked his changes for the 2nd attempt. I was also glad to see that I'm not the only one that doesn't like 2 mana Thalia in these lists. She just doesn't do enough, honestly, and slowing down CoCo is awful. He also encountered the same issues with Bob that we've discussed in this thread, so overall it was good to see how on-track this thread has been .
They might have been referring to this video that was posted on the main site.
Ah, good catch. He live streamed a bant black humans deck a couple of weeks ago, where 2 mana Thalia was his first cut after running through a league with the deck.
As for that list...yikes. I'm definitely not a fan. Only 3 Cavern of Souls? No Anafenza, the Foremost or Reflector Mage? It seems to have a major lack of interaction and not much aggression, but yet again, Todd Stevens is all about grindy value creatures, so I'm not surprised that this is the route he took with the deck. I'm definitely interested to see how it performs though, but I'm skeptical. I'll be watching the video later today.
...
Ah, good catch. He live streamed a bant black humans deck a couple of weeks ago, where 2 mana Thalia was his first cut after running through a league with the deck.
As for that list...yikes. I'm definitely not a fan. Only 3 Cavern of Souls? No Anafenza, the Foremost or Reflector Mage? It seems to have a major lack of interaction and not much aggression, but yet again, Todd Stevens is all about grindy value creatures, so I'm not surprised that this is the route he took with the deck. I'm definitely interested to see how it performs though, but I'm skeptical. I'll be watching the video later today.
At this point I'm just lurking and accumulating pieces, but I have some Anafenza in my pile of cards waiting for most of the remainder to rotate out.
I really like joel Larsson's list. He played with it on stream a few days ago and went 22-3 in modern leagues.
Very solid list. I'm not sold on the combo, though, as his wins tend to just be from straight value off of KoTR and EWit (I watched a good bit of his stream VoDs and that deck was wrecking face! I don't even think I saw the combo happen once). I'd personally replace the 2 Retreats with 2 Tireless Tracker or something.
Combo aside, Knight of the reliquary really impressed me watching these games, such a versatile card.
This is what stood out to me as well, along with Eternal Witness, which inspired me to revisit the idea of a straight up Bant Humans list. However, instead of trying to combo off, I'm interested in taking a one way ticket to Value Town:
- I'm essentially getting rid of Retreat and instead playing Tireless Tracker. He's good by himself in a deck with 9 fetches, but alongside Knight of the Reliquary, he's just broken.
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy should really shine in a deck like this where there is a lot of sacrificing of permanents and can even set up juicy targets for Eternal Witness. The amount of recursion in this deck can potentially set up some insane sequences.
- Duskwatch Recruiter is another great mana sink for keeping the tank fueled up, so why not?
- This deck should have much improved matchups against Burn and Blood Moon.
- Colored mana is nowhere near as crucial as in some other Humans lists, which should help consistency.
- This list is much weaker to graveyard hate, but more able to play through stuff like Grafdigger's Cage
As always, this is just another idea of mine, so I'll be trying it out tonight on MTGO and see how it goes.
Yeah when I threw the deck together yesterday morning before work, I completely missed the fact that Joel's list was running the full 8 mana dorks. I'll fix that tonight and test it out some more.
I don't believe that kind of build can work in the format. Not better than a more aggro version.
It's impossible to beat Affinity and Burn G1 with this build to begin with. By not playing a combo, there's no way to race other combo decks or the fastest aggro decks.
KotR is good because you can now combo off with it, otherwise it's a slow vanilla creature that has never done anything good enough in the format to be worth it. I trust history on this.
I can see control and ramp decks are good right now, however you don't beat these decks by playing slow value creatures. Recruiter, Jace and Tracker are best against midrange, and average against control and ramp. In order to face sweepers and unbeatable wincons, you want discard, counterspells, PWs... things you find in a midrange / control deck. Or you want to win before the opponent's big plays happen... thanks to a combo or a more linear strategy, like being aggro.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
The reason I was playing around with the idea is because, in all of his 30+ games, he only combo'd off like once or twice, which doesn't seem often enough to make it worth playing an otherwise mostly useless enchantment that makes Collected Company worse. But after some testing, I still much prefer the blackless aggro build with Mantis Rider, Voltaic Brawler and Kari Zev, Skyship Raider. I guess I prefer the gameplan of "just kill em"
As for Affinity and Burn, you also forget that a 3 color deck takes a lot less damage off of its lands, which helps. There are also plenty of ways to beat Affinity G1 when you run 4 Paths and 4 Reflector Mages; I do that all the time. Sure, their nut draws won't lose, but that's the same regardless of what version you build. The biggest issue I have with the 3 drop heavy bant build is that, without a T1 dork, it feels INSANELY slow. The thing I really like about the blackless aggro build is that you can still apply a decent presence on the board on T2 without a dork, just by virtue of having cards like Brawler and Kari Zev as good standalone threats.
The biggest issue I have with the 3 drop heavy bant build is that, without a T1 dork, it feels INSANELY slow. The thing I really like about the blackless aggro build is that you can still apply a decent presence on the board on T2 without a dork, just by virtue of having cards like Brawler and Kari Zev as good standalone threats.
Champion into lieutenant is still good. But yeah bant is a lot less explosive without a dork, that's why the deck probably needs the full 8.
Yeah, I tried a few rounds with the full 8 dorks and I'm still not a fan of how slow it is. I'm probably too used to playing the red build haha.
Played in a 17 person FNM. I'm not sure why not too many players are showing up. It's Fatal Push month!
Round 1 vs. Dredge. Game 1, I have some early bodies. A Champion of the Parish is killed at a 3/3 by Conflagrate, along with a Mayor of Avabruck. He gets a lot of creatures in the midgame and gets me. In the next game, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben hampers him and I get some midgame bodies. I mulled to 5 and he mulled to 6. I draw Rest in Peace the turn when he's at lethal, so I don't play it. I think he has 3 Nature's Claims in hand since he didn't play much while stuck on 2 lands. In the last game, I have Mirran Crusader on turn 2. Noble Hierarch triggers and then another one end him pretty quickly. Didn't get much on dredges. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Hardened Scales Allies. In game 1, he stalls on mana after turn 1 Razorverge Thicket/Avacyn's Pilgrim. I put too many bodies and swarm him. He does the same to me in the next game. In the final game, it's somewhat close, but being on the play helps a ton! He also has Champion of the Parish. I end up getting a Company with Reflector Mage and Thalia's Lieutenant. I had also been sandbagging a Path to Exile. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Zoo. Game 1 on the play. Mana dork into Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant. Collected Company next turn into double Thalia's Lieutenant with Gavony Township as my 3rd land. I have another in hand. Next game, I play some dudes into turn 3 Sin Collector into turn 4 double Thalia's Lieutenant. I win with Path to Exile and Rest in Peace in hand. No need to humiliate a Goyf, as it's his only threat now. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Titanshift. 0-0-3. We drove together. He played the other guy we came with a round before this. We split and ended up with the Fatal Pushes. We play for fun and I win 2-1. I love playing this matchup. I have been testing it like crazy and feel like I've narrowed it to nearly a 50/50 matchup. You just really have to know what cards are important in this match and hope to draw them, lol.
I finish 3-0-1 again. Not gonna lie. There's some insane draws with this deck.
I don't believe that kind of build can work in the format. Not better than a more aggro version.
It's impossible to beat Affinity and Burn G1 with this build to begin with. By not playing a combo, there's no way to race other combo decks or the fastest aggro decks.
KotR is good because you can now combo off with it, otherwise it's a slow vanilla creature that has never done anything good enough in the format to be worth it. I trust history on this.
I feel that 2 cards previously made this ineffective in Modern - Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze. Shaman has been gone for a while, but Scooze is seeing much less play nowadays. Not to mention, you don't really want to be trying to have a creature with no evasion when opponents are Podding up stuff, drawing 3 cards for U, playing 4 Eldrazi Mimic on turn 1, Twinning you out, or casting Summer Bloom on turn 2. The meta just hasn't really been good for Knight, even with the combo. I feel it's somewhat different now because there are a lot of noninteractive decks right now and it is basically your "out" to those decks. It is a necessary evil or gives you a fighting chance, however you want to say it.
I should go further to say that I do in fact want to try the list with Knight of the Reliquary, just to get a better perspective. I just have been somewhat hesitant to do so because I haven't made the time to change the decks and the current configurations with both have faired me well. I think I'm close to 20-3-5 with Humans and 19-5-4 with Knightfall so far. That's much higher than my lifetime win percentage in Modern.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Round 1 vs. Green Eldrazitron
Game one i kept a pretty agressive hand with two lands, Champion, Champion, Lieutnant, Mayor, Pilgrim. My opponent had turn three Tron but my start was too explosive.
Game two my opponent made a pretty huge missplay. I had some dudes on the board and he played a Thought-Knot Seer. I revealed a Stony Silence and Reflector Mage. He picked the Silence and next turn i bounced his Seer and beat him to 0.
1-0
Round 2 vs. Slivers
Cool to see some unusual Decks now and then.
Game one and two where similar. In both games Reflector Mage was my MVP.
2-0
Round 3 vs. Titanshift
I hate this deck! I only won one time against this deck playing Zoo and had perfect hands.
Game one i lost due a bad hand i kept. It was something with 2 or 3 lands, Hierarch and Thalia GoT. I thought i can slow him down with Thalia but it didnt work. He resolves Scapeshift and shots for 500000...
Game two i boarded in two Gideon's Intervention but didnt draw them. I kept a aggressive hand with Champ, Champ, Meddling Mage, Hierarch, Pilgrim, Pilgrim and 1 City of Brass... he removed every Dork i played... somehow i managed to get two Dorks on the field and cast a Sin Collector i drew. His hand: 2x Scapeshift and Anger of the Gods. I exiled the Anger and played the turn after a Meddling Mage naming Scapeshift. That felt nice!
Unfortunately he topdecked a mountain wich was the missing one to trigger Valakut. He played a Titan and killed me
2-1
Round 4 vs. Titanshift. 0-0-3. We drove together. He played the other guy we came with a round before this. We split and ended up with the Fatal Pushes. We play for fun and I win 2-1. I love playing this matchup. I have been testing it like crazy and feel like I've narrowed it to nearly a 50/50 matchup. You just really have to know what cards are important in this match and hope to draw them, lol. Grin
What's your gameplan against Titanshift?
Round 4 vs. Temur Knuckleblade
A pretty good player that used to play a lot of Bant Kightfall. We talked in between the rounds about the Knightfall deck and it was cool we got paired in the last round. Never saw the Knuckleblade deck before.
Game one i played some humans and kept his threats with Reflector Mage under control. It was enough.
Game two i lost when he set up his board. He had a Vial on 3, a Knuckleblade and a Clique on the board. It was enough.
The last game was a little grindfest. Turn two Thalia, Heretic Cathar won me the game by. I managed to resolve a company and hit a Reflector Mage and a Lieutnant. That was enough power!
3-1
The second FNM i finished 3-1. I'm super happy with the deck right now. I own now 3x Noble Hierarch and the more I play with this card it gets better and better! Reflector Mage is a huge card! Even with no target he has good stats and can start beating!
After talking with my opponent i'm going to build the KnightfallHuman list. That will give me a alternate wincon and the Knight of the Reliquary is a good beater though.
Anyone tried some Ixalan cards yet?
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Modern: 5c Humans//Devoted Company
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Eldrazi Displacer is interesting. Could be kind of stupid (ly good) with stuff like Reflector Mage/Sin Collector/Orzhov Pontiff/nearly anything else. The only problem I foresee is having the mana to do it. I would like to see more people test it more. For me, I've always had uses for my mana, from Gavony Township to sacrificing Horizon Canopy to draw to Collected Company.
There have been a few games where I flooded out, but usually a creature or Company off the top was enough to end it. I wouldn't say my experience has been the best, as I've played fewer than 30 matches and not counting IDs, I'm at an around 90% win rate. In theory, the card seems pretty solid, if not off-theme.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Eldrazi Displacer is interesting. Could be kind of stupid (ly good) with stuff like Reflector Mage/Sin Collector/Orzhov Pontiff/nearly anything else. The only problem I foresee is having the mana to do it. I would like to see more people test it more. For me, I've always had uses for my mana, from Gavony Township to sacrificing Horizon Canopy to draw to Collected Company.
There have been a few games where I flooded out, but usually a creature or Company off the top was enough to end it. I wouldn't say my experience has been the best, as I've played fewer than 30 matches and not counting IDs, I'm at an around 90% win rate. In theory, the card seems pretty solid, if not off-theme.
Lots of fun. Will post a small report soon.
Wanted to post an update on my Human-List.
Played some Matches at home and attended two FNM. Here are some changes i made:
So i bought two Noble Hierarch... damn, this card is worth every $$$ !
2x Noble Hierarch for 2x Birds of Paradise
I wanted to try Sin Collector to fight against Scapeshift because too many dudes playing it... When Ixalan is released i will try the 2-Mana Human. I think picking any card could be Maindeck better than "just" a sorc or instant.
Sin Collector for Mayor of Avabruck
In the Sideboard i replaced the Orzhov Pontiff with Dusk // Dawn. In my meta there aren't that many small creature Decks. I have to deal a lot with EldraziTron or Merfolk. In those matchups i think a massremoval hits them harder than me.
2x Dusk // Dawn for Orhov Pontiff
Some thoughts on match ups:
Scapeshift: It's sometimes hard to race them. Till now i never won a best of 3 against Scapeshift. Lifegain after boarding is just super annoying... For this Matchup I will try Gideons Intvervention over Meddling Mage. I know it's against the Company plan but it stops shooting Valakut in my face. Also it's harder to remove.
BloodMoonDecks: After learning it the hardway i had issues of getting my manabase destroyed. This isn't the problem anymore because i learned to fetch for basics turn 1+2. The only thing i'm not sure: is it better to play 1x basic Island? I had some situations where i had a Reflector Mage in my hand and no access to a blue source because of Blood Moon. The longer I think about it, I'm less convinced.
Jund: I played last friday against "classic" Jund (Lili, Goyf, Ooze) and it was super hard. Game one i played Mirrancusader turn two. This won me the game. Game two he did jund-stuff. Destroyed every creature, attacked my hand and slamed his Goyfs. I think I should boarded in Rest in Peace to shut our graveyards off. His Ooze just went too huge. Any tips for those grindy match ups?
Grixis Shadow: One of my favorite match ups! I played against a lot of competitive dudes wich could play the deck nearly perfect! My MVP is Mirrancrusader! Otherwise we can play Reflector Mage to bounce Tasigur or Gurmi. After boarding i like to bring in Rest in Peace. I would like to go up on 3x Mirrancrusader Main but don't know what to cut.
Aggro: I think we have a better position against aggro-decks. After resolving a Company we should be just fine and have the bigger dudes on the board.
For now i'm super happy with my ModernHumans. I would like to try Naya again and be more aggro but i think the meta isn't the best right now. I think Ixalan will bring some nice cards to our pool and make Humans a real option in modern
Human BantBlack v2.0
Creatures (31)
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Thalia's Lieutnant
3x Mayor of Avabruck
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Reflector Mage
2x Mirrancrusader
2x Sin Collector
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Spells (8)
4x Path to Exile
4x Collected Company
Lands (21)
2x Plains
2x Forest
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Flooded Strand
1x Temple Garden
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Breeding Pool
1x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Cavern of Souls
2x City of Brass
Sideboard (15)
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Meddling Mage
2x Dusk // Dawn
2x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
Would like to read the report and your decklist
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
If you're referring to his live stream, then yeah, I did catch that a couple of weeks ago. The list wasn't great at first, but I mostly liked his changes for the 2nd attempt. I was also glad to see that I'm not the only one that doesn't like 2 mana Thalia in these lists. She just doesn't do enough, honestly, and slowing down CoCo is awful. He also encountered the same issues with Bob that we've discussed in this thread, so overall it was good to see how on-track this thread has been .
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Ah, good catch. He live streamed a bant black humans deck a couple of weeks ago, where 2 mana Thalia was his first cut after running through a league with the deck.
As for that list...yikes. I'm definitely not a fan. Only 3 Cavern of Souls? No Anafenza, the Foremost or Reflector Mage? It seems to have a major lack of interaction and not much aggression, but yet again, Todd Stevens is all about grindy value creatures, so I'm not surprised that this is the route he took with the deck. I'm definitely interested to see how it performs though, but I'm skeptical. I'll be watching the video later today.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I haven't watched the streams yet, the only card I'm second guessing is Blessed Alliance - is it in for Burn? Death's Shadow?
Very solid list. I'm not sold on the combo, though, as his wins tend to just be from straight value off of KoTR and EWit (I watched a good bit of his stream VoDs and that deck was wrecking face! I don't even think I saw the combo happen once). I'd personally replace the 2 Retreats with 2 Tireless Tracker or something.
Burn, Infect, Bogles. DS is a fine MU and that card isn't as efficient as PtE. It can be an ok filler if he cuts too many weak cards from his main.
This is what stood out to me as well, along with Eternal Witness, which inspired me to revisit the idea of a straight up Bant Humans list. However, instead of trying to combo off, I'm interested in taking a one way ticket to Value Town:
4 Champion of the Parish
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Reflector Mage
2 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker
Spells (8)
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
1 Breeding Pool
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Arashin Cleric
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Meddling Mage
2 War Priest of Thune
3 Negate
Ideas/Reasons/Comments for this build:
- I'm essentially getting rid of Retreat and instead playing Tireless Tracker. He's good by himself in a deck with 9 fetches, but alongside Knight of the Reliquary, he's just broken.
- Instead of Kessig Wolf Run, I'm going for the Gavony Township plan.
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy should really shine in a deck like this where there is a lot of sacrificing of permanents and can even set up juicy targets for Eternal Witness. The amount of recursion in this deck can potentially set up some insane sequences.
- Duskwatch Recruiter is another great mana sink for keeping the tank fueled up, so why not?
- This deck should have much improved matchups against Burn and Blood Moon.
- Colored mana is nowhere near as crucial as in some other Humans lists, which should help consistency.
- This list is much weaker to graveyard hate, but more able to play through stuff like Grafdigger's Cage
As always, this is just another idea of mine, so I'll be trying it out tonight on MTGO and see how it goes.
It's impossible to beat Affinity and Burn G1 with this build to begin with. By not playing a combo, there's no way to race other combo decks or the fastest aggro decks.
KotR is good because you can now combo off with it, otherwise it's a slow vanilla creature that has never done anything good enough in the format to be worth it. I trust history on this.
I can see control and ramp decks are good right now, however you don't beat these decks by playing slow value creatures. Recruiter, Jace and Tracker are best against midrange, and average against control and ramp. In order to face sweepers and unbeatable wincons, you want discard, counterspells, PWs... things you find in a midrange / control deck. Or you want to win before the opponent's big plays happen... thanks to a combo or a more linear strategy, like being aggro.
As for Affinity and Burn, you also forget that a 3 color deck takes a lot less damage off of its lands, which helps. There are also plenty of ways to beat Affinity G1 when you run 4 Paths and 4 Reflector Mages; I do that all the time. Sure, their nut draws won't lose, but that's the same regardless of what version you build. The biggest issue I have with the 3 drop heavy bant build is that, without a T1 dork, it feels INSANELY slow. The thing I really like about the blackless aggro build is that you can still apply a decent presence on the board on T2 without a dork, just by virtue of having cards like Brawler and Kari Zev as good standalone threats.
Yeah, I tried a few rounds with the full 8 dorks and I'm still not a fan of how slow it is. I'm probably too used to playing the red build haha.
Round 1 vs. Dredge. Game 1, I have some early bodies. A Champion of the Parish is killed at a 3/3 by Conflagrate, along with a Mayor of Avabruck. He gets a lot of creatures in the midgame and gets me. In the next game, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben hampers him and I get some midgame bodies. I mulled to 5 and he mulled to 6. I draw Rest in Peace the turn when he's at lethal, so I don't play it. I think he has 3 Nature's Claims in hand since he didn't play much while stuck on 2 lands. In the last game, I have Mirran Crusader on turn 2. Noble Hierarch triggers and then another one end him pretty quickly. Didn't get much on dredges. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Hardened Scales Allies. In game 1, he stalls on mana after turn 1 Razorverge Thicket/Avacyn's Pilgrim. I put too many bodies and swarm him. He does the same to me in the next game. In the final game, it's somewhat close, but being on the play helps a ton! He also has Champion of the Parish. I end up getting a Company with Reflector Mage and Thalia's Lieutenant. I had also been sandbagging a Path to Exile. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Zoo. Game 1 on the play. Mana dork into Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant. Collected Company next turn into double Thalia's Lieutenant with Gavony Township as my 3rd land. I have another in hand. Next game, I play some dudes into turn 3 Sin Collector into turn 4 double Thalia's Lieutenant. I win with Path to Exile and Rest in Peace in hand. No need to humiliate a Goyf, as it's his only threat now. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Titanshift. 0-0-3. We drove together. He played the other guy we came with a round before this. We split and ended up with the Fatal Pushes. We play for fun and I win 2-1. I love playing this matchup. I have been testing it like crazy and feel like I've narrowed it to nearly a 50/50 matchup. You just really have to know what cards are important in this match and hope to draw them, lol.
I finish 3-0-1 again. Not gonna lie. There's some insane draws with this deck.
I have been a huge Knight of the Reliquary fan for a long time now. I just really love what the card can do ever since Mythic Conscription in Standard. http://www.starcitygames.com/article/19602_The-Pro-Perspective---Next-Level-Bant-versus-Mythic-Conscription--The-Mythic-Conscription-Perspective.html
But you are certainly right about Knight. At least I feel so. It's hardly worth playing without the combo, although in grindy matchups, it can thin out your deck and do stupid stuff with Tireless Tracker and Courser of Kruphix, not to mention getting you Kessig Wolf Run.
I feel that 2 cards previously made this ineffective in Modern - Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze. Shaman has been gone for a while, but Scooze is seeing much less play nowadays. Not to mention, you don't really want to be trying to have a creature with no evasion when opponents are Podding up stuff, drawing 3 cards for U, playing 4 Eldrazi Mimic on turn 1, Twinning you out, or casting Summer Bloom on turn 2. The meta just hasn't really been good for Knight, even with the combo. I feel it's somewhat different now because there are a lot of noninteractive decks right now and it is basically your "out" to those decks. It is a necessary evil or gives you a fighting chance, however you want to say it.
I should go further to say that I do in fact want to try the list with Knight of the Reliquary, just to get a better perspective. I just have been somewhat hesitant to do so because I haven't made the time to change the decks and the current configurations with both have faired me well. I think I'm close to 20-3-5 with Humans and 19-5-4 with Knightfall so far. That's much higher than my lifetime win percentage in Modern.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Could you share the decklist?
short report on my last FNM!
We were only 15 people and played 4 rounds.
Round 1 vs. Green Eldrazitron
Game one i kept a pretty agressive hand with two lands, Champion, Champion, Lieutnant, Mayor, Pilgrim. My opponent had turn three Tron but my start was too explosive.
Game two my opponent made a pretty huge missplay. I had some dudes on the board and he played a Thought-Knot Seer. I revealed a Stony Silence and Reflector Mage. He picked the Silence and next turn i bounced his Seer and beat him to 0.
1-0
Round 2 vs. Slivers
Cool to see some unusual Decks now and then.
Game one and two where similar. In both games Reflector Mage was my MVP.
2-0
Round 3 vs. Titanshift
I hate this deck! I only won one time against this deck playing Zoo and had perfect hands.
Game one i lost due a bad hand i kept. It was something with 2 or 3 lands, Hierarch and Thalia GoT. I thought i can slow him down with Thalia but it didnt work. He resolves Scapeshift and shots for 500000...
Game two i boarded in two Gideon's Intervention but didnt draw them. I kept a aggressive hand with Champ, Champ, Meddling Mage, Hierarch, Pilgrim, Pilgrim and 1 City of Brass... he removed every Dork i played... somehow i managed to get two Dorks on the field and cast a Sin Collector i drew. His hand: 2x Scapeshift and Anger of the Gods. I exiled the Anger and played the turn after a Meddling Mage naming Scapeshift. That felt nice!
Unfortunately he topdecked a mountain wich was the missing one to trigger Valakut. He played a Titan and killed me
2-1
What's your gameplan against Titanshift?
Round 4 vs. Temur Knuckleblade
A pretty good player that used to play a lot of Bant Kightfall. We talked in between the rounds about the Knightfall deck and it was cool we got paired in the last round. Never saw the Knuckleblade deck before.
Game one i played some humans and kept his threats with Reflector Mage under control. It was enough.
Game two i lost when he set up his board. He had a Vial on 3, a Knuckleblade and a Clique on the board. It was enough.
The last game was a little grindfest. Turn two Thalia, Heretic Cathar won me the game by. I managed to resolve a company and hit a Reflector Mage and a Lieutnant. That was enough power!
3-1
The second FNM i finished 3-1. I'm super happy with the deck right now. I own now 3x Noble Hierarch and the more I play with this card it gets better and better! Reflector Mage is a huge card! Even with no target he has good stats and can start beating!
After talking with my opponent i'm going to build the KnightfallHuman list. That will give me a alternate wincon and the Knight of the Reliquary is a good beater though.
Anyone tried some Ixalan cards yet?
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
Sorry, I posted it in the wrong thread. It's fluctuated between 73 to 75 of this deck.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/humans-coco-in-modern/
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)There have been a few games where I flooded out, but usually a creature or Company off the top was enough to end it. I wouldn't say my experience has been the best, as I've played fewer than 30 matches and not counting IDs, I'm at an around 90% win rate. In theory, the card seems pretty solid, if not off-theme.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Not sure if I want to try it in humans exactly, but Growing Rites of Itlimoc and Eldrazi Displacer seems like a brutal way to use extra mana.