I agree with the fellows there, Eldrazi Displacer is a nice card now we have access to 8 diamond lands. It's in the "value" slots though, and not a Human, so you can't easily play 4 and add Witnesses in the mix. You have to make some cuts and I'd suggest you to play only 2 Displacers, since the ability costs a ton of mana anyway.
Now my opinion is a bit undetermined because I can't evaluate what 4 Freebooters can do in the format yet.
doesn't reliably give you life against burn
You're reaching here, probably because you don't play the card. You gain a ton of life with Auriok Champ and is MVP against Burn and tribal decks. What you're right about is it's a bad clock, and for that reason it's hard to consider the card for the MD.
I lost to mono red dragon stompy, won against eggs, esper death shadow, eldrazi tron, bant eldrazi,gw value town, affinity, gw value town and lost to UR storm in the finals
Going forward I played a weekly modern tournament with 28 players going 4-1 (losing to valakut) and 5th with a comparable build but
+1 forge tender
+1 selfless spirit
-1 stony silence
-1 mindcensor
Yesterday, I played another modern tournament where I finished 3-2 losing to valakut and burn my sideboard was:
2 unified will
2 mirran crusader
3 rest in peace
3 stony silence
1 reclamation sage
2 burreton forge tender
2 eidolon of the rhetoric
I need your advice how to change my sb to be better against burn and valakut. I am also consider switching to a version with 4 unclaimed territory. I however dislike displacer and witness because I believe that the deck has to be all speed in the preboard games.
Unclaimed Territory is indeed the first step every Human deck must follow to improve Burn. Play 4 !
Eidolons could be 2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, she helps vs Burn and Storm altogether.
You can cut 1 RIP, the only graveyard deck we can't beat is Living End. You should also cut a Stony, it would give you 2 slots for 2x Izzet Staticasters, which are very good proactive plays VS Dredge, Affi, Elves, etc...
The more Humans you have in your SB, the better.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Unclaimed Territory is indeed the first step every Human deck must follow to improve Burn. Play 4 !
Eidolons could be 2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, she helps vs Burn and Storm altogether.
You can cut 1 RIP, the only graveyard deck we can't beat is Living End. You should also cut a Stony, it would give you 2 slots for 2x Izzet Staticasters, which are very good proactive plays VS Dredge, Affi, Elves, etc...
The more Humans you have in your SB, the better.
Thanks for the advice. I had the feeling that I can cut one rip too.
I run 3 Thalia (old and new) main. Playing the territories. .would you run virithian renegades over rec sage?
Which cards are in your opinion best sb cards against burn and valakut? (Kambal, unified will. Auriok champion. Aven mindcensor. Meddling mage )?
Another question: Did any one ever try Hanweir Garrison? It seems that the tokens trigger champion and lieutenant.
Vithian is good if you don't want to invest anything on Bogles, Ad Nauseam and Blood Moon. If you expect those decks / cards in the event you prepare for, I'd suggest you to play disenchant effects over Vithian.
Also, there's a balance with artifacts decks you must do. if the only artifact deck in the event is Affinity (which is a close MU), Stony and Staticaster are enough, you don't want Vithian. But if you expect Gx Tron, UB(x) Tezz and Lantern and no weenie deck (Elves, Merfolk, D&T, etc...), as a sudden a card like Vithian could be more interesting than Staticaster. It's a card we rarely see because the metagame is never full of those artifacts decks.
Rec Sage, Disenchant, Naturalize, Natural State, Qasali Pridemage, all are meh, but also necessary evils in the current format. Pick your poison, and wait for a Human to do the same thing in future printings.
Burn and Valakut are different MUs, and may not require the same answers.
Against Burn, you want a clock and lifegain. Both. A good opener and one lifegain effect will be enough. A slower start will require much more effort though. Kambal isn't a card I love here, it's not stellar. It's played because it incidentally helps the Burn MU, but is there for Storm in the first place. Since we already have Meddling Mage and Thalia V1, Kambal looks unnecessary and not the best option anywhere. Auriok C., Arashin C., Blessed A., counterspells, it's a combination of cards that help us. The strongest card against Burn is Leyline of Sanctity imo. Otherwise my fav is Auriok Champion because it's also good VS Dredge, Elves, Merfolk and Death's Shadow while the other options aren't quite as versatile.
Against Valakut, counterspells are MVP, especially the ones that can counter both sorceries and creatures. Kitesail Freebooter is an godsend for black versions. Meddling Mage is fine. Mindcensor is obviously very strong and can help against Chord decks, which are not easy MUs.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
With the printing of Kitesail Freebooter i'll be definetly trying an Abzan(U) list. I would even go as far as dropping blue alltogether and go full disruptive.
My current list allready has some black mainboard and a lot sideboard to the point I feel it's realy just a blue splash for Reflector Mage rather than Bant.
I wonder, has anyone ever tried a list without the ranp and exalted triggers of Noble Hierarch?
So yesterday, with Ixalan being legal to play I did a couple of games with the aforementioned Abzan list on the kitchen table with a friend. The results were very promising. Took on and beat UB Fearies twice and GR Tooth and Nail. 2-0, 20, 2-1 respectively.
The manabase was extremely consistent and pretty pain free. It definitely felt better than BantB/BantR. The deck was also naturally capable to beat trough Blood Moon when fetching basics correctly.
I play 26 creatures to make room for T1 disruption. I Used it every time I could and felt very strong. Never had problems with Collected Company, but technically we lose some value over a large sample size of games.
Our deck is naturally weak to removal/sweepers, so the plan is to disrupt and remove any spot removal spell first, then play a Kitesail Freebooter and take another piece, a sweeper or some sideboard tech. Post board, the follow up Sin Collector is devastating.
As a result, Champion of the Parish is a little less preferred as the one drop. Though one of the strongest line of play was: T1 Inquisition of Kozilek. T2 Champion of The Parish, Noble Hierarch. T3 Kitesail Freebooter, Thalia's Lieutenant.
Against any counter magic, Cavern of Souls is obviously MVP, but the additional disruption in the deck let's you focus on the other troublesome spells!
The sideboard is a rough, though pretty serious sketch, based on my own experience and local Meta.
What do you guys think of my current take on the humans list?
I play tested Titanshift vs. Humans a lot. My Humans' list is 58 of 60 cards the same, the only difference being 3 Sin Collector instead of 2 and Abzan Falconer. I also have 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar instead of 3/3. The SB is nearly the same as well.
Vs. Titanshift, the first thing to realize is that you're slightly unfavored. I would approximate it to be around 48/52. The way you win is to get a Champion of the Parish to 4 toughness or bigger and use this to do the last points of damage while your other creatures die to Sweltering Suns or Anger of the Gods. Sin Collector is key here, as it always nabs a big piece, from key ramp (not usually the choice) to Hour of Promise or Scapeshift. Meddling Mage can be important to, but there's no way that you can name everything important. You just hope to name the right thing (Anger of the Gods for example and dodge Lightning Bolt) and get a bit lucky. You really need to put the pedal to the metal in this matchup. If you wait around long enough, you can't beat them in the long game. I should say that since I playtested it so often, this is one of my current favorite matchups. When I run Knightfall, I despise playing against Titanshift. Probably sounds a bit odd to some people...
I've played against Burn sparingly, but I feel that the matchup is favored for us, probably around 55/45. Sin Collector is a boss. Early Champion of the Parish, Thalia's Lieutenant, and mana dorks with Gavony Township is enough to race them sometimes. If you land Collected Company, it can be pretty devastating for them. Kambal, Consul of Allocation is very good and you really hope to dodge Searing Blaze for a bit anyway. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben can be very strong against them and can often be lights out to a mana screwed opponent. I just think that there's too many things that can go our way, although we could be stuck with the Horizon Canopy draw that is fragile also. Honestly, I haven't been nut drawn by this deck in a while and I've also drawn well for Humans, so my experience could be skewed slightly, but I honestly feel that we have a slight to "average sized" edge on them.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I play tested Titanshift vs. Humans a lot. My Humans' list is 58 of 60 cards the same, the only difference being 3 Sin Collector instead of 2 and Abzan Falconer. I also have 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar instead of 3/3. The SB is nearly the same as well.
Vs. Titanshift, the first thing to realize is that you're slightly unfavored. I would approximate it to be around 48/52. The way you win is to get a Champion of the Parish to 4 toughness or bigger and use this to do the last points of damage while your other creatures die to Sweltering Suns or Anger of the Gods. Sin Collector is key here, as it always nabs a big piece, from key ramp (not usually the choice) to Hour of Promise or Scapeshift. Meddling Mage can be important to, but there's no way that you can name everything important. You just hope to name the right thing (Anger of the Gods for example and dodge Lightning Bolt) and get a bit lucky. You really need to put the pedal to the metal in this matchup. If you wait around long enough, you can't beat them in the long game. I should say that since I playtested it so often, this is one of my current favorite matchups. When I run Knightfall, I despise playing against Titanshift. Probably sounds a bit odd to some people...
I've played against Burn sparingly, but I feel that the matchup is favored for us, probably around 55/45. Sin Collector is a boss. Early Champion of the Parish, Thalia's Lieutenant, and mana dorks with Gavony Township is enough to race them sometimes. If you land Collected Company, it can be pretty devastating for them. Kambal, Consul of Allocation is very good and you really hope to dodge Searing Blaze for a bit anyway. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben can be very strong against them and can often be lights out to a mana screwed opponent. I just think that there's too many things that can go our way, although we could be stuck with the Horizon Canopy draw that is fragile also. Honestly, I haven't been nut drawn by this deck in a while and I've also drawn well for Humans, so my experience could be skewed slightly, but I honestly feel that we have a slight to "average sized" edge on them.
What is your opinion about freebooter compared to Sin Collector? When I finished 2nd at that SCG IQ, Sin collector was the worst card, but I guess it was just based on the matchups I faced.
Today I playtested a list with -3 new thalia, -1 abzan falconer for +4 Mantis Rider. I added 4 Unclaimed Territory to the deck and it felt really strong. Any opinions?
BTW: If you have a champion and a mana dork in hand, what do you usually play first? I usually start with the dork.
What is your opinion about freebooter compared to Sin Collector? When I finished 2nd at that SCG IQ, Sin collector was the worst card, but I guess it was just based on the matchups I faced.
Today I playtested a list with -3 new thalia, -1 abzan falconer for +4 Mantis Rider. I added 4 Unclaimed Territory to the deck and it felt really strong. Any opinions?
BTW: If you have a champion and a mana dork in hand, what do you usually play first? I usually start with the dork.
Kitesail Freebooter will probably replace Sin Collector because of the mana cost, but I like Sin Collector. The 2/1 body is preferable to me, as well as the exile. It's hard for me to imagine Sin Collector being the worst card because it guards us from a real weakness the deck has in my opinion - mass removal or Sorcery/Instant speed targeted removal, as well as taking key cards in the Storm/Ad Nauseam/Titanshift matchups. I remember reading a quote how Pro Player Magnus Lantto (when he first started playing the deck) told people not to play the deck without 4 Sin Collector mainboard. I feel like 3 is fine right now, but I wouldn't leave home without them. I just don't want the possibility of getting the card back, even if Freebooter is also better vs. Affinity. But it's also tough to argue with your results. Congratulations on the 2nd place with Humans. I love to see results with decks that I know are good, but haven't had the exposure yet.
I feel like Mantis Rider with that land will probably be very good. It's hard for me to gauge Thalia, Heretic Cathar's power because I've drawn them usually in runaway games. But it has singlehandedly or in addition to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben won several games though. Mantis Rider can shore up our Affinity matchup, as well as having evasion and an aggressive body against other Company matchups. I like it! But I have to admit that I'm pretty resistant to change and probably will keep my deck list similar to what it is now until it stops working or I see concrete results showing another way is better.
*Regarding mana dork vs. Champion, it just really depends. When I have a 3 drop that I potentially want to cast on turn 2 and can with the mana dork, I do the mana dork first. It gives more options for 1 fewer +1/+1 counter on Champ, because I still may cast him next turn and follow with a 2 drop. But if I know that I couldn't possibly want that 3 drop on turn 2 or have a hand where I can cast, for example, Avacyn's Pilgrim and Noble Hierarch on turn 2 to attack for 4 on turn 2 (after turn 1 Champ), then I go for that. It completely depends on what is the matchup, but often disruption with a 1 turn slower clock (or possibly the same) is better than not getting the disruption on time. Despite having an idea of what I want to do in the matchup, I still hesitate for a moment to consider what to do.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
BTW: If you have a champion and a mana dork in hand, what do you usually play first? I usually start with the dork.
Relatively new to the deck, but unless I have a Collected Company in hand that I want to play on t3 or a land light hand, I play Champion of the Parish on t1. This deck seems to want to be the aggressor so I want to start swinging early and often w champions. Obviously, there's not real hard rule to it all.
BTW: If you have a champion and a mana dork in hand, what do you usually play first? I usually start with the dork.
Relatively new to the deck, but unless I have a Collected Company in hand that I want to play on t3 or a land light hand, I play Champion of the Parish on t1. This deck seems to want to be the aggressor so I want to start swinging early and often w champions. Obviously, there's not real hard rule to it all.
I always have a land light hand, lol. I think the average hand has 2 lands, but yes, if I have more than that many lands, I usually do it the same way as you do. I agree that there really isn't a hard rule and each game and matchup takes a different play to it. It's probably one of the tougher calls for us, outside of sideboarding.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I tested the Freebooter today against burn and it didn't perform well because they are able to get there spell back with Searing Blood and searing blaze. I wonder if it could be a sideboard card against valakut, storm, maybe even eldrazi tron.
I tested Mantis Rider and I really liked it. However, I agree that you lose the disruption because I was replacing 2 new Thalias and 2 Sin Collector for Mantis Riders so we might lose some percentage against Valakut and Storm if playing Mantis Rider. However, a Titanshift player told me that Mantis Rider is pretty good and hard to predict.
I think you mean Searing Blood. That was pretty unlucky for them to have both Searing spells. I think Mantis Rider takes the place of Thalia, Heretic Cathar, so it wouldn't hurt much against Titanshift or Storm. I think the clock could be worth it, although I'd like to see it tested in the place of this Thalia.
Yes, between Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, and Fatal Push, I'd much rather see Sin Collector. And I didn't even realize that Freebooter couldn't take creatures until today, lol.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm currently trying out a list that uses Kitesail Freebooter, Sin Collector and Reflector Mage in a package designed to maximize the ability of Meddling Mage. I basically rip apart their hand while applying pressure to the board with the usual suspects, then lock out their last couple of cards with Meddling Mage. Played against burn and won pretty handily, then played against a GW aggro deck with Gavony and Nissa and was able to abuse Freebooter's evasion. Against burn in G1, they were having to point burn spells at Mage and Freebooter in order to unlock their hand, which gave me just enough time to stabilize at 4 life. In G2, I got running Kambals and stabilized easily in the early game. I'm really liking the high amount of disruption in the deck, and I have some Eternal Witness in the side for grindier matchups. Here's my list:
UPDATE:
Been getting a few more games under my belt on MTGO and this deck continues to impress. I've made a few minor changes (mostly sideboard) since making this post earlier, but we may have a real winner here. The disruption package is proving to be very difficult for opponents; it punishes risky keeps, keeps opponents off gameplan and forces them into awkward situations like having to use removal on a small 1/2 flyer instead of the 5/5 Champion of the Parish that's beating them down. Reflector Mage ensures that creature matchups are favorable while Kitesail Freebooter, Sin Collector and Meddling Mage put control and combo decks into really tough situations with the constant disruption. Decks like Ad Nauseum and UW control, which are tough matchups for most humans lists, are much more favorable with this version. I plan to continue testing, but before I do, I want to post my updated list:
@ kingcars
I am missing old Thalia in your deck.is it not worth it? How is your storm matchup without her. Do you think she could be played instead of anafenza or does that result in too many 2 drops?
I personally play 2 townships and they won a lot of games
congrats! i really like your list, I hoped something like that could work!
Thanks! When Freebooter was spoiled, I figured this build would just be a for-the-lulz thing, but it's proving to be a legitimate contender. While people are debating between Freebooter and Collector, I'm over here like
The list looks great, and i agree on the Unclaimed territory. The drawback is less consistency for casting noncreature spells, but with the right configuration we can cast CoCo by turn 3 pretty consistently.
Yeah I was worried about the non-creature spells, but so far it has not been a problem. It's very nice to have more painless color fixing, though, especially against burn. I'll keep testing it. I've also updated the mana base of my blackless Mantis Rider build and so far, it's been great.
Regarding manabase, your configuration seems the most stable, maybe we can take some shocklands away? like Hallowed Fountain, as we often need U and W sources to be in different lands (for meddling mage and Reflector mage).
Yeah, hard to say. It'll take some testing and tweaking to find the optimal mana base. I've also considered 1 or 2 Reflecting Pool, which work great with Cavern and Territory.
The only card with a tough casting cost is Anafenza, the foremost, but i guess you might also opt to put it in the sideboard (even though maindeck graveyard hate is pretty nice in the current meta). In that case you could go up to full playsets of meddling mages and freebooters (and make the manabase more focused).
Anafenza isn't actually hard to cast in this build, considering that there is literally only 1 mana source (the basic Island) that doesn't help cast her. I also don't want to fall into a trap where the deck is all disruption and no finishers. You can disrupt the opponent all you want, but you still gotta kill them before they draw out of it.
@ kingcars
I am missing old Thalia in your deck.is it not worth it? How is your storm matchup without her. Do you think she could be played instead of anafenza or does that result in too many 2 drops?
This deck crushes storm. Freebooter, Sin Collector and Meddling Mage pretty easily shut down their gameplan, and there's even Kambal in the sideboard for extra hate. I removed old Thalia from my CoCo Humans builds a while ago, as she often hurt me just as much, if not more, than my opponent. She regularly blocked my own CoCos and Paths. Especially in a deck like this one with so much hate for non creature spells, there isn't a reason to run her. Anafenza, the Foremost is an important finisher and helps grow the smaller bodies in the deck. Don't underestimate the clock this card puts out. I rarely lose games when I'm swinging and placing counters with her. Also, playing her on T2 against Living End and Dredge is quite fun!
This deck crushes storm. Freebooter, Sin Collector and Meddling Mage pretty easily shut down their gameplan, and there's even Kambal in the sideboard for extra hate. I removed old Thalia from my CoCo Humans builds a while ago, as she often hurt me just as much, if not more, than my opponent. She regularly blocked my own CoCos and Paths. Especially in a deck like this one with so much hate for non creature spells, there isn't a reason to run her. Anafenza, the Foremost is an important finisher and helps grow the smaller bodies in the deck. Don't underestimate the clock this card puts out. I rarely lose games when I'm swinging and placing counters with her. Also, playing her on T2 against Living End and Dredge is quite fun!
I'm currently toying with the idea of a full 5C build, but my hypothesis is that the additional color constraints won't be worth the marginal differences provided by the 5th color. As for Abzan Falconer, it's unfortunately just too situational and can lead to major blowouts when it gets removed mid-combat. Anafenza, the Foremost is a fantastic magic card, just try it out! Not only is it useful against dredge and living end, but it's useful against creatures like Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, Strangleroot Geist, Geralf's Messenger etc.
[quote from="polymorpher »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/769652-modern-humans?comment=565"]What do you think about playing Mantis Rider instead of Anafenza or a one of Abzan Falconer?
This! I ran Bant Black Humans at GP Birmingham, and everytime I played my singleton Anafenza, she got a reaction from my opponents, usually something like "Yeah, sure... wait, what does she do again? Oh, cool... and she's a 4/4?!". I was never unhappy to see her.
Your deck looks interesting, I like the idea of a proactive disruption deck, speaking as someone who gets punished for risky keeps myself this seems like a great way to disrupt an opponent, whilst building a Humans beat down. I also like that it cleans up your sideboard into very clear options that support your gameplan or address specific matchups. Plus I just miss Kambal and Sin Collector in my current Bant Red Human Knightfall list!
I will give your configuration a try. However, I think we don't need the red in the sideboard (including the land). Since your maindeck is very disruptive already I think the focus of your sideboard should go a little bit more towards the very small aggressive creature decks. Therefore, I think you should play 2 Orzhov Pontiff and cutting the Izzet staticaster and the land. Even though no human, I would prefer Reclamation Sage over Vithian Renegades but if you want them I think you can still keep them without adding the additional stomping ground in the side. I personally also prefer Stony Silence instead of Kathaki because it is acceptable to good in the Eldrazi tron matchup.
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Now my opinion is a bit undetermined because I can't evaluate what 4 Freebooters can do in the format yet.
You're reaching here, probably because you don't play the card. You gain a ton of life with Auriok Champ and is MVP against Burn and tribal decks. What you're right about is it's a bad clock, and for that reason it's hard to consider the card for the MD.
I need your advice since you are more experienced with the deck.
I picked that deck up and without ever playing it before finished 2nd at an SCG IQ with 80 players, playing this version:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=116202
I lost to mono red dragon stompy, won against eggs, esper death shadow, eldrazi tron, bant eldrazi,gw value town, affinity, gw value town and lost to UR storm in the finals
Going forward I played a weekly modern tournament with 28 players going 4-1 (losing to valakut) and 5th with a comparable build but
+1 forge tender
+1 selfless spirit
-1 stony silence
-1 mindcensor
Yesterday, I played another modern tournament where I finished 3-2 losing to valakut and burn my sideboard was:
2 unified will
2 mirran crusader
3 rest in peace
3 stony silence
1 reclamation sage
2 burreton forge tender
2 eidolon of the rhetoric
I need your advice how to change my sb to be better against burn and valakut. I am also consider switching to a version with 4 unclaimed territory. I however dislike displacer and witness because I believe that the deck has to be all speed in the preboard games.
Eidolons could be 2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, she helps vs Burn and Storm altogether.
You can cut 1 RIP, the only graveyard deck we can't beat is Living End. You should also cut a Stony, it would give you 2 slots for 2x Izzet Staticasters, which are very good proactive plays VS Dredge, Affi, Elves, etc...
The more Humans you have in your SB, the better.
Thanks for the advice. I had the feeling that I can cut one rip too.
I run 3 Thalia (old and new) main. Playing the territories. .would you run virithian renegades over rec sage?
Which cards are in your opinion best sb cards against burn and valakut? (Kambal, unified will. Auriok champion. Aven mindcensor. Meddling mage )?
Another question: Did any one ever try Hanweir Garrison? It seems that the tokens trigger champion and lieutenant.
Also, there's a balance with artifacts decks you must do. if the only artifact deck in the event is Affinity (which is a close MU), Stony and Staticaster are enough, you don't want Vithian. But if you expect Gx Tron, UB(x) Tezz and Lantern and no weenie deck (Elves, Merfolk, D&T, etc...), as a sudden a card like Vithian could be more interesting than Staticaster. It's a card we rarely see because the metagame is never full of those artifacts decks.
Rec Sage, Disenchant, Naturalize, Natural State, Qasali Pridemage, all are meh, but also necessary evils in the current format. Pick your poison, and wait for a Human to do the same thing in future printings.
Burn and Valakut are different MUs, and may not require the same answers.
Against Burn, you want a clock and lifegain. Both. A good opener and one lifegain effect will be enough. A slower start will require much more effort though. Kambal isn't a card I love here, it's not stellar. It's played because it incidentally helps the Burn MU, but is there for Storm in the first place. Since we already have Meddling Mage and Thalia V1, Kambal looks unnecessary and not the best option anywhere. Auriok C., Arashin C., Blessed A., counterspells, it's a combination of cards that help us. The strongest card against Burn is Leyline of Sanctity imo. Otherwise my fav is Auriok Champion because it's also good VS Dredge, Elves, Merfolk and Death's Shadow while the other options aren't quite as versatile.
Against Valakut, counterspells are MVP, especially the ones that can counter both sorceries and creatures. Kitesail Freebooter is an godsend for black versions. Meddling Mage is fine. Mindcensor is obviously very strong and can help against Chord decks, which are not easy MUs.
So yesterday, with Ixalan being legal to play I did a couple of games with the aforementioned Abzan list on the kitchen table with a friend. The results were very promising. Took on and beat UB Fearies twice and GR Tooth and Nail. 2-0, 20, 2-1 respectively.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
2 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tireless Tracker
Spells
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Concealed Courtyard
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Gavony Township
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Sin Collector
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Big Game Hunter
1 Worship
Some remarks.
The manabase was extremely consistent and pretty pain free. It definitely felt better than BantB/BantR. The deck was also naturally capable to beat trough Blood Moon when fetching basics correctly.
I play 26 creatures to make room for T1 disruption. I Used it every time I could and felt very strong. Never had problems with Collected Company, but technically we lose some value over a large sample size of games.
Our deck is naturally weak to removal/sweepers, so the plan is to disrupt and remove any spot removal spell first, then play a Kitesail Freebooter and take another piece, a sweeper or some sideboard tech. Post board, the follow up Sin Collector is devastating.
As a result, Champion of the Parish is a little less preferred as the one drop. Though one of the strongest line of play was: T1 Inquisition of Kozilek. T2 Champion of The Parish, Noble Hierarch. T3 Kitesail Freebooter, Thalia's Lieutenant.
Evasion on Kitesain Freebooter is great!
Against any counter magic, Cavern of Souls is obviously MVP, but the additional disruption in the deck let's you focus on the other troublesome spells!
The sideboard is a rough, though pretty serious sketch, based on my own experience and local Meta.
What do you guys think of my current take on the humans list?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Vs. Titanshift, the first thing to realize is that you're slightly unfavored. I would approximate it to be around 48/52. The way you win is to get a Champion of the Parish to 4 toughness or bigger and use this to do the last points of damage while your other creatures die to Sweltering Suns or Anger of the Gods. Sin Collector is key here, as it always nabs a big piece, from key ramp (not usually the choice) to Hour of Promise or Scapeshift. Meddling Mage can be important to, but there's no way that you can name everything important. You just hope to name the right thing (Anger of the Gods for example and dodge Lightning Bolt) and get a bit lucky. You really need to put the pedal to the metal in this matchup. If you wait around long enough, you can't beat them in the long game. I should say that since I playtested it so often, this is one of my current favorite matchups. When I run Knightfall, I despise playing against Titanshift. Probably sounds a bit odd to some people...
I've played against Burn sparingly, but I feel that the matchup is favored for us, probably around 55/45. Sin Collector is a boss. Early Champion of the Parish, Thalia's Lieutenant, and mana dorks with Gavony Township is enough to race them sometimes. If you land Collected Company, it can be pretty devastating for them. Kambal, Consul of Allocation is very good and you really hope to dodge Searing Blaze for a bit anyway. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben can be very strong against them and can often be lights out to a mana screwed opponent. I just think that there's too many things that can go our way, although we could be stuck with the Horizon Canopy draw that is fragile also. Honestly, I haven't been nut drawn by this deck in a while and I've also drawn well for Humans, so my experience could be skewed slightly, but I honestly feel that we have a slight to "average sized" edge on them.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)What is your opinion about freebooter compared to Sin Collector? When I finished 2nd at that SCG IQ, Sin collector was the worst card, but I guess it was just based on the matchups I faced.
Today I playtested a list with -3 new thalia, -1 abzan falconer for +4 Mantis Rider. I added 4 Unclaimed Territory to the deck and it felt really strong. Any opinions?
BTW: If you have a champion and a mana dork in hand, what do you usually play first? I usually start with the dork.
Kitesail Freebooter will probably replace Sin Collector because of the mana cost, but I like Sin Collector. The 2/1 body is preferable to me, as well as the exile. It's hard for me to imagine Sin Collector being the worst card because it guards us from a real weakness the deck has in my opinion - mass removal or Sorcery/Instant speed targeted removal, as well as taking key cards in the Storm/Ad Nauseam/Titanshift matchups. I remember reading a quote how Pro Player Magnus Lantto (when he first started playing the deck) told people not to play the deck without 4 Sin Collector mainboard. I feel like 3 is fine right now, but I wouldn't leave home without them. I just don't want the possibility of getting the card back, even if Freebooter is also better vs. Affinity. But it's also tough to argue with your results. Congratulations on the 2nd place with Humans. I love to see results with decks that I know are good, but haven't had the exposure yet.
I feel like Mantis Rider with that land will probably be very good. It's hard for me to gauge Thalia, Heretic Cathar's power because I've drawn them usually in runaway games. But it has singlehandedly or in addition to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben won several games though. Mantis Rider can shore up our Affinity matchup, as well as having evasion and an aggressive body against other Company matchups. I like it! But I have to admit that I'm pretty resistant to change and probably will keep my deck list similar to what it is now until it stops working or I see concrete results showing another way is better.
*Regarding mana dork vs. Champion, it just really depends. When I have a 3 drop that I potentially want to cast on turn 2 and can with the mana dork, I do the mana dork first. It gives more options for 1 fewer +1/+1 counter on Champ, because I still may cast him next turn and follow with a 2 drop. But if I know that I couldn't possibly want that 3 drop on turn 2 or have a hand where I can cast, for example, Avacyn's Pilgrim and Noble Hierarch on turn 2 to attack for 4 on turn 2 (after turn 1 Champ), then I go for that. It completely depends on what is the matchup, but often disruption with a 1 turn slower clock (or possibly the same) is better than not getting the disruption on time. Despite having an idea of what I want to do in the matchup, I still hesitate for a moment to consider what to do.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Relatively new to the deck, but unless I have a Collected Company in hand that I want to play on t3 or a land light hand, I play Champion of the Parish on t1. This deck seems to want to be the aggressor so I want to start swinging early and often w champions. Obviously, there's not real hard rule to it all.
I always have a land light hand, lol. I think the average hand has 2 lands, but yes, if I have more than that many lands, I usually do it the same way as you do. I agree that there really isn't a hard rule and each game and matchup takes a different play to it. It's probably one of the tougher calls for us, outside of sideboarding.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I tested Mantis Rider and I really liked it. However, I agree that you lose the disruption because I was replacing 2 new Thalias and 2 Sin Collector for Mantis Riders so we might lose some percentage against Valakut and Storm if playing Mantis Rider. However, a Titanshift player told me that Mantis Rider is pretty good and hard to predict.
Yes, between Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, and Fatal Push, I'd much rather see Sin Collector. And I didn't even realize that Freebooter couldn't take creatures until today, lol.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)4 Champion of the Parish
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Meddling Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Sin Collector
4 Reflector Mage
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
Spells (8)
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 War Priest of Thune
2 Rest in Peace
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Eternal Witness
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Arashin Cleric
UPDATE:
Been getting a few more games under my belt on MTGO and this deck continues to impress. I've made a few minor changes (mostly sideboard) since making this post earlier, but we may have a real winner here. The disruption package is proving to be very difficult for opponents; it punishes risky keeps, keeps opponents off gameplan and forces them into awkward situations like having to use removal on a small 1/2 flyer instead of the 5/5 Champion of the Parish that's beating them down. Reflector Mage ensures that creature matchups are favorable while Kitesail Freebooter, Sin Collector and Meddling Mage put control and combo decks into really tough situations with the constant disruption. Decks like Ad Nauseum and UW control, which are tough matchups for most humans lists, are much more favorable with this version. I plan to continue testing, but before I do, I want to post my updated list:
4 Champion of the Parish
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Meddling Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Sin Collector
4 Reflector Mage
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
Spells (8)
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
3 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 Vithian Renegades
2 Rest in Peace
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Eternal Witness
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Arashin Cleric
1 Stomping Ground
1 Meddling Mage
The only maindeck changes here are in the mana base. -2 Misty Rainforest, -1 Flooded Strand, -1 Windswept Heath and +4 Unclaimed Territory. This obviously provides improved mana fixing and helps us cast some of our new sideboard stuff like Vithian Renegades and Izzet Staticaster, which have both been great sideboard cards in other builds. I did add a 1x Stomping Ground just in case, but I'm not 100% sure it's necessary.
I am missing old Thalia in your deck.is it not worth it? How is your storm matchup without her. Do you think she could be played instead of anafenza or does that result in too many 2 drops?
I personally play 2 townships and they won a lot of games
Thanks! When Freebooter was spoiled, I figured this build would just be a for-the-lulz thing, but it's proving to be a legitimate contender. While people are debating between Freebooter and Collector, I'm over here like
Yeah I was worried about the non-creature spells, but so far it has not been a problem. It's very nice to have more painless color fixing, though, especially against burn. I'll keep testing it. I've also updated the mana base of my blackless Mantis Rider build and so far, it's been great.
Yeah, hard to say. It'll take some testing and tweaking to find the optimal mana base. I've also considered 1 or 2 Reflecting Pool, which work great with Cavern and Territory.
Anafenza isn't actually hard to cast in this build, considering that there is literally only 1 mana source (the basic Island) that doesn't help cast her. I also don't want to fall into a trap where the deck is all disruption and no finishers. You can disrupt the opponent all you want, but you still gotta kill them before they draw out of it.
Gavony is great if you're on 2 or 3 colors. Past that, you're treading on thin ice. Colorless sources get super risky.
This deck crushes storm. Freebooter, Sin Collector and Meddling Mage pretty easily shut down their gameplan, and there's even Kambal in the sideboard for extra hate. I removed old Thalia from my CoCo Humans builds a while ago, as she often hurt me just as much, if not more, than my opponent. She regularly blocked my own CoCos and Paths. Especially in a deck like this one with so much hate for non creature spells, there isn't a reason to run her. Anafenza, the Foremost is an important finisher and helps grow the smaller bodies in the deck. Don't underestimate the clock this card puts out. I rarely lose games when I'm swinging and placing counters with her. Also, playing her on T2 against Living End and Dredge is quite fun!
What do you think about playing Mantis Rider instead of Anafenza or a one of Abzan Falconer?
I'm currently toying with the idea of a full 5C build, but my hypothesis is that the additional color constraints won't be worth the marginal differences provided by the 5th color. As for Abzan Falconer, it's unfortunately just too situational and can lead to major blowouts when it gets removed mid-combat. Anafenza, the Foremost is a fantastic magic card, just try it out! Not only is it useful against dredge and living end, but it's useful against creatures like Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, Strangleroot Geist, Geralf's Messenger etc.
This! I ran Bant Black Humans at GP Birmingham, and everytime I played my singleton Anafenza, she got a reaction from my opponents, usually something like "Yeah, sure... wait, what does she do again? Oh, cool... and she's a 4/4?!". I was never unhappy to see her.
Your deck looks interesting, I like the idea of a proactive disruption deck, speaking as someone who gets punished for risky keeps myself this seems like a great way to disrupt an opponent, whilst building a Humans beat down. I also like that it cleans up your sideboard into very clear options that support your gameplan or address specific matchups. Plus I just miss Kambal and Sin Collector in my current Bant Red Human Knightfall list!
I will give your configuration a try. However, I think we don't need the red in the sideboard (including the land). Since your maindeck is very disruptive already I think the focus of your sideboard should go a little bit more towards the very small aggressive creature decks. Therefore, I think you should play 2 Orzhov Pontiff and cutting the Izzet staticaster and the land. Even though no human, I would prefer Reclamation Sage over Vithian Renegades but if you want them I think you can still keep them without adding the additional stomping ground in the side. I personally also prefer Stony Silence instead of Kathaki because it is acceptable to good in the Eldrazi tron matchup.