Meddling Mage was key for me in those two matches last night.
Vs. Elves he ran me over in G1, but in G2 I opened 2x Mage plus an Image and then drew another Mage and a second Image off the top--ended up naming Heritage Druid, CoCo, Chord, Ezuri, and Elvish Archdruid, so he couldn't really do much. In G3 Meddling slowed him way down again and he went all-in on a Westvale Abbey activation for Ormendahl, hoping to fade Reflector Mage or Phantasmal Image for one turn, which he did--my topdecked Lieutenant got him to one life, but left me dead to the crackback. I sided in Crusader, Staticaster, and Dismember and sided out Thalias and a Freebooter. I very much doubt that T2 Mantis Rider is the right line, I think it's probably better to try to put together disruption from Kitesail, Meddling, Reflector, and Phantasmal Image to keep Ezuri out of play.
Vs. Hollow One I did not see Lavamancer last night, but I agree that that card is brutal against us. He saw a few Bolts but not enough to shut me down. I named Hollow One with Meddling in this match and held back a second blocker for his Flameblade Adept--since Thalia has first strike, she can eat Adepts all day long if she has a wingmate, even if it's only a Hierarch. Their RNG can work both ways, at times, but I haven't played against the deck enough to have a solid grasp of how consistently its shenanigans play out.
Hollow One, Dredge, and Company decks have me thinking about going back to 2x Grafdigger's in the side, maybe putting my 4th Reflector Mage back in the main in place of the flex slot I've been experimenting with. Cage doesn't stop Living End, but Meddling Mage sure does.
My experience leads me to believe that Thalia is crucial to the deck's gameplan, and that Phantasmal Image is the best card in the deck. Right now I would not run less than four of each.
After some months of not being able to log into my account I’ve finally managed to get in!
Had recent success with this deck, two 4-0 at FNMs and a 3-2-1 finish at 35+ tournament.
Had so many responses to queries/comments but will try and keep it brief:
gaddock teeg / selfless spirit
I appreciate the comments that casting these creatures may be tricky, but I haven’t once had this problem and the cards have been invaluable in my sideboard. Dropping a gaddock teeg on turn 2 vs Tron is exceptionally helpful (and has recently won me a couple of games). Also vialling in a selfless spirit in response to a board wipe normally wins the game. For now I will be keeping a singleton copy of each in my sideboard.
tactics: Elves and Gx-Tron
Similarity to previous comments, any turn 2 and 3 disruption has really helped me in these match ups. Particularly against elves vialling an orzhov pontiff or izzet Staticaster in response to a CoCo seems to have a good effect if it can’t be played earlier. I did manage to beat G-Tron without any disruption, but had an exceptionally fast clock and was able to race them before they could play anything reasonable. However in this match I counted myself very lucky as the opponent had both Karn and Ugin in hand.
Having watched recent GP match ups and my own findings, I often find that if the match up starts to get grindy the Human pilot pretty much relies on topdecks. I therefore wondered if the following configuration has some legs?
Ok, so the major changes are a slight adjustment to the land base and the introduction of lead the stampede. Before people suggest I’m mad, I think it is worthy of consideration and shouldn’t be too hard to achieve. I think the mana base may need some more work, but in theory we have 11 sources that can produce G. Assuming we aren’t playing against UW/Grixis Control it is unlikely that the spell will be countered, and refilling our hand at turn 3/4 is pretty appealing. Obviously an argument could be made, that if I’m considering lead the stampede, why aren’t I prioritising Collected Company? My argument is simple, if we have an aether Vial active, potentially drawing 4-5 creatures and being able to play the one we need, is a better play than hitting two random off the top. I’m open to discussion though and want to hear if others have considered this route, or even tested it.
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I dunno, looks shaky to me. Your Razorverges are messing up your mana for Mantis Rider and Phantasmal Image since you swapped Ziggurats. And seven sources with four dorks is not actually good. CoCo would fit the curve better and gives immediate board presence without needing a Vial that has the number of counters you want. But I think card advantage comes from Dark Confidant in a Vial build.
Yer I agree with what you are saying, hence my comment that the manabase would need work. The alternative option would be to drop Ziggurat in favour of city of brass/mana confluence. The life loss may hurt a bit, but will it hurt more than Bob?
My current list has 2 dark Confidant in the main because of the meta. It’s great, but I was wondering if there was a better option for ensuring we don’t end up topdecking. One of the benefits of lead the stampede is it means that more than one Vial aren’t redundant.
Based on your comment about CoCo, do you think there is scope for it? Or is it over complicating an already successful deck?
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I think you need 11 lands that tap for g to support lead. 9 minimum. 4 canopy and 4 fetches and 3 shocks plus 8 rainbows would likely do it. But no ziggurat means no image.
I suspect you'd be better off playing eternal witness. Nobody will have yard hate. And it's gross with vial.
Rec Sage has no purpose over Vithian Ren against artifact decks. Rec Sage is there to fight GW Hexproof and Moon decks as far as I know. Since it's arguably as good to bring in Mirran Crusader against Bogles, and that other cards can help in various MUs (EE, Ratchet Bomb), Rec Sage doesn't actually bring much to the table.
You don't bring artifact hate in the mirror or against Storm.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Regarding a CoCo build: I have never played that version of Humans. But I suspect that the Vial builds and the CoCo/spells builds are inherently just two different decks. I ended up thinking about how to build a reliable five color land package for quite a while... warning, lots of theory crafting ahead!
It's so hard to get a workable manabase for both RandB without all 12 pain-free rainbow lands. (Anyone who plays this deck knows the occasional stumbling block of an early uncastable Freebooter or Mantis Rider off a Canopy, Seachrome Coast, and Hierarch mana draw.) One way to go would be a fetch/shock package like the one below. A fetch/shock package lets us run some basics which could offset a Vial-free deck's susceptibility to Field of Ruin or Blood Moon. (BTW I think you have to keep all the Ziggurats if you want to keep running Phantasmal Image, or good stuff like Kataki, War's Wage or Selfless Spirit in the side):
I think you'd probably need 22 lands to play key 4-drop spells, with only four dorks. I built it like this to try to fully support T2 Freebooter (Karsten recommends minimum 13 sources for B on T2--we have 14) and T3 Mantis (Karsten suggests 12 sources for R on T3--we have 14 here). We also improve our Phantasmal Image mana a lot by getting up to 12 T3 sources. Finally, we have the recommended 11 sources for G on T4 as well... but we also have way more pain, like a LOT more. And 22 lands means no more room for Vials.
That manabase seems super awkward. The City of Brass/Mana Confluence option seems much smoother but it is probably just as painful, maybe worse? It would be weaker to Blood Moon for sure... and again I think we need more than 19 lands to cast our non-creature spells--even if you went with Stampede you might want as many as 21 lands. So again no room for Vials.
It seems to me that one of the advantages Vial decks have over CoCo decks (besides the nearly pain-free land package) is that the only non-creature spell in the Vial decks acts as ramp for our speedy openers. CoCo needs Hierarch to play two board-impacting dudes on T3, but Vial can do it without the dork. Vial decks also run more creatures than a CoCo deck can, since they need more lands; so we offset the CoCo card advantage there a little bit. The other card advantage piece we play is that we have room for 4x Horizon Canopy, and they certainly don't, without significant concessions in the creature package compared to a Vial deck.
I think if you play CoCo you probably have to lose Freebooter at the least, and maybe just go Bant. Is CoCo worth it? I have no idea, this is all spitballing from me, so take it with a big grain of salt.
If running company you should run consider ~7 dorks and 20 lands in my opinion (4 hierarchs 3 pilgrims).
The advantage there is in a bant build you could run as many as 3 gavony townships; the disadvantage is you get wrecked by burn now and also lose some points against combo by not running the full disruption package.
No, bob generates value if he survives, witness generates value as is. Also will basically always get an impactful card they have killed. Witness generally feels like drawing two cards on ETB in my experience since it always gets something good pretty much.
edit: Which isn't to say Bob isn't better in the deck just that he's not "just better" -- if you want to out grind control decks you're probably more likely to do that with witness drawing cards and being a body. Also quite possible Witness is better in a company build.
TL;DR witness is a mulldrifter, bob is a baneslayer
2-0 vs Hollow One : Same player that got me good last week, at 1-2. I had the right cards at the right time (Dismember ; Thalia and Big Thalia to double block their fatties). It was a race in the end, and a Lieutenant added enough to the board to drop him to 1 life. I was at 3 when I passed the turn. He only had Phoenix, and top decked Faithless Looting while I had an active Notion Thief on the battlefield. He conceded.
2-1 vs Lantern : Strange version of the deck, that runs a lot of Burn spells. A timely Vithian Renegade on game 3 destroyed Ensnaring Bridge so I could kill him in 2-3 turns.
0-2 vs Burn : Game 1 wasn’t even close. Game 2, I had 3 Vials (at 1, 2, and 3 counters) and 3 Noble Hierarch on the battlefield, attacking with a 3/4 every turn. I dropped him to 3, and I was at 1 life facing Eidolon and Goblin Guide. Then variance hit me hard : in the last turns, I top decked 3 lands (was already flood with too many lands, 3 dorks and 3 Vials). I think any Humans would have been enough, and opponent himself said he wasn’t supposed to win that game. After he burned the last point of damage, I revealed the top deck just for fun : 5 more lands.
Then I played a casual game vs RG Ponza and lost 1-2. I won game 1 with 2 Riders and Freebooter (taking Blood Moon). Game 2, I was ready to disrupt again with Freebooter and 2 Meddling Mage, but Blood Moon hit the battlefield on turn 2 before I could cast anything. With no Vial, I was dead. Game 3, I had Vial, but I wasn't careful and game value to Anger of the Gods. Blood Moon, Chandra, 2 Coursers, Kitchen Finks and Huntmaster then overwhelmed me.
How do you play the Burn and Ponza matchups?
I think Kambal should make a comeback in the deck, because Burn is increasingly more present in the Modern metagame (there's more Blood Moon, it's a deck that doesn't suffer much from it, and that has a good matchup against Humans and Jund). Kambal also kills Storm super good, and any Control deck. Auriok Champion is super good too, but seems less universally useful than Kambal, no? Also, about the debate of Anafenza vs Grafdigger’s Cage, I think the right call is probably one or the other, but both. We never want to draw the second Cage or the second Anafenza. Same is true for Gaddock Teeg. One of each is probably better, and reduce the chance we overshoot when sideboarding, reducing the consistency of our main strategy. This frees up a slot in my SB, that I can devote to Kambal, Auriok Champion or Heron's Grace Champion.
Against Ponza, I'm really clueless as to what would help from the SB. Dismember and Hostage Taker are nice, but they don't really disrupt their plan. Help?
I totally concur with Image comment. I have had amazing shenanigans lately copying my opponents creatures to maintain board presence. Nice Wurmcoil you have there, I'd like to have one too.
Learning moment for me last week... against a 4c Zoo in game 3.
Cast two Images coping my opponents Kitchen Finks, gain 4 life, pass turn.
Block Op's alpha with said Images... Persist trigger, Image re-enters, choose new targets for Image ability..
I totally concur with Image comment. I have had amazing shenanigans lately copying my opponents creatures to maintain board presence. Nice Wurmcoil you have there, I'd like to have one too.
......
Nice detail here, Your wurm generates tokens upon targeted exile effects (karn, ugin, path) while his doesn't.
Not like Todd Stevens during the super league ! Burn is usually toss dependant. Vial has more value G1 than post-SB because they may want to cut some Eidolons. I don't know what the consensus is among Burn players though. I never cut Vial anyway and it remains the T1 play no matter what.
I assume Aether Vial is as important in the Ponza MU. We have nothing stellar for that specific MU, sorry.
I think Kambal should make a comeback in the deck, because Burn is increasingly more present in the Modern metagame (there's more Blood Moon, it's a deck that doesn't suffer much from it, and that has a good matchup against Humans and Jund). Kambal also kills Storm super good, and any Control deck. Auriok Champion is super good too, but seems less universally useful than Kambal, no?
Kambal never made the cut in any of my lists, so I can't talk about a come back. He's gonna eat a Searing B's / Bolt and won't save the day. Auriok Champion is superior vs Burn, and also has applications in difficult MUs, while Kambal helps in already favorable MUs. The mana cost is also an issue, we have many 3-cmc SB cards and adding some isn't good for us, especially for fast MUs where the opening hands sometimes decide the outcome right away. We should be playing Sin Collector, and this is where one could fit Kambal instead.
Arashin Cleric has also seen play when Burn was popular. It's a narrower card though, and I don't think it's playable in such a wide meta.
Also, about the debate of Anafenza vs Grafdigger’s Cage, I think the right call is probably one or the other, but both. We never want to draw the second Cage or the second Anafenza. Same is true for Gaddock Teeg. One of each is probably better, and reduce the chance we overshoot when sideboarding, reducing the consistency of our main strategy.
I like this argument, however when you split like that, you're not improving specific MUs you want those cards for as much. If Hollow One is what you target, it's better to have 2 Cages, rather than a Gaddock / Ana. If you target Griselbrand, Anafenza may be way too slow and Cage faster, and 2 won't be too many since they have artifact hate (they're very well aware of Chalice and Cage). Anafenza is super slow anyway since most graveyard strats are decks that go off on T3 anyway. Kataki doesn't prevent Lantern from paying for their Ensnaring Bridge, that you'd rather destroy with Renegades. All in all, I think I will always play more copies of the card that does exactly what I want, even though it's narrower than its cousins. There's a balance to make between narrow and specific too.
So I wonder why these clearly very experienced players still chose to only run 3 instead of 4
The effect of the 4th Image is less impactful / needed than the first one, and at that point, than another Human. Same goes with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. While she is much needed in some MUs, she's bad in others and extra copies hurt your consistency (and sometimes your ability to apply enough pressure). The 4th copy is worse than another Human more often than it's needed. I'm unable to say when the time is right to run the 4th copy of either of these cards, but I'd probably wait for the meta to become less diverse.
Also, about the debate of Anafenza vs Grafdigger’s Cage, I think the right call is probably not one or the other, but both. We never want to draw the second Cage or the second Anafenza. Same is true for Gaddock Teeg. One of each is probably better, and reduce the chance we overshoot when sideboarding, reducing the consistency of our main strategy.
I like this argument, however when you split like that, you're not improving specific MUs you want those cards for as much. If Hollow One is what you target, it's better to have 2 Cages, rather than a Gaddock / Ana. If you target Griselbrand, Anafenza may be way too slow and Cage faster, and 2 won't be too many since they have artifact hate (they're very well aware of Chalice and Cage). Anafenza is super slow anyway since most graveyard strats are decks that go off on T3 anyway. Kataki doesn't prevent Lantern from paying for their Ensnaring Bridge, that you'd rather destroy with Renegades. All in all, I think I will always play more copies of the card that does exactly what I want, even though it's narrower than its cousins. There's a balance to make between narrow and specific too.
What I meant, is instead of alloting 4 SB slots to 2 Cage/Anafenza and 2 Gaddock, I would be better with 1 Cage, 1 Anafenza and 1 Gaddock, freeing up a slot for Kambal or Auriok Champion.
Against Hollow One and Dredge, siding in 1 Cage and 1 Anafenza is good. You wouldn't want to draw 2 Cages or 2 Anafenza, anyway. And while Cage is an early response, Anafenza can still hit the field on T2 with Hierarch. She won't be removed by Bolt, can trade with Hollow One or block Amalgam, and disrupt their graveyard (and she's a Human).
Against Coco decks, you'd side in 1 Cage and 1 Gaddock. It's still a 2/2 that disrupts their plan with Coco (and is incidently very good against Karn, Ugin, Cryptic Command, Jace, Damnation, Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict, miracles, Scapeshift, etc.).
Against Burn/Zoo, side in 1 Kambal/Auriok and 1 Anafenza (she can't be removed by their burn spells, and is an amazing road block).
By combining these cards in pair, you won't suffer from duplicates, and can still tackle the matchups for which they're good for.
BTW, I'm 100% with you on the Kataki vs Renegades argument. Kataki won't ever win you a match vs Lantern that has resolved a Bridge, period.
Kataki, War's Wage doesn't get rid of Ensnaring Bridge, it's true. Nevertheless I am not sold on Vithian Renegades because it is kinda limited too. Kataki seems much better against Affinity, and Meddling has only two really relevant targets in Lantern--Bridge and Whir of Invention. This means Freeboter/Meddling/Phantasmal disruption stands a decent chance at keeping the Bridge off the board in the first place.
Anyway I am going backwards with the list, to a certain extent. (No Mayors though.) I like Phantasmal as a 4-of since it is so amazingly versatile, and I like Thalia as a 4-of because I want to see her in every game since her effect is so asymmetrical for us and can be a powerful part of the tempo lines we sometimes take. I could see going down to 3 only, but copy #4 gives about a 9% greater chance of landing one on T2 when it matters, which seems like a pretty relevant figure. So for now this is what I am planning for the next couple weeklies I'll attend:
For a while I was messing around with flex slots but I feel like I never really found something that seemed worth running as a singleton. I'm going to try going all-in on consistency with the core creatures. I have liked the additional 1-drop for sure, since it helps ensure something relevant to do on T1 (or on T2 if I also have a Vial). Kytheon should maybe be Thraben Inspector instead, but Gideon is pretty good and flips pretty regularly when I land Kytheon on T1 or T2.
So I’ve been a long time lurker on different subs here and finally put together a humans deck (The GP Phoenix list). What’s the game plan against jund and moon decks? Sorry if it’s been asked already but I don’t know how we beat t2 moons or Jund’s removal. Any help is appreciated, I’m trying to figure stuff out for tonight’s event.
I'm going to try going all-in on consistency with the core creatures. I have liked the additional 1-drop for sure
^I'm all aboard on this. When I talk with players who honestly act like Humans is the "boogeyman" of match-ups they always talk about the core cards... It was the "top-decked reflector mage" or the Mantis Rider or worse the Image copying Mantis Rider that broke the game.
I feel like the deck really only has one flex spot without reducing what makes it great and I think either another one-drop pilgrim/Inspector/Kytheon is as defensible as Dark Confidant or Kessig. If I were to cut one of the fundamental cards to a 3-of it would have to be a Thalia though. Having multiples of the Legend always hurts and when it is the most important card in the match-up I'd be just as happy to Vial in an Image in response to their targeted EOT removal that they were counting on giving them a "tax-free" next turn.
I like the idea of 1of Avacyn's Pilgrim. Having access to 3 mana on turn 2 if you don't have Vial is always good, and since I'm running 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar, this is even more appreciated.
I haven't put much thought into it yet, but wouldn't Pithing Needle be useful as a sideboard card? It stops walkers, O-Stone, manlands, Lavamancer and some stuff that can be annoying.
So this is kind of out there but has anyone ever tried a sideboarded 2x trophy mage 1x ensnaring bridge as a way to beat aggro decks? Feels like we could beat most opposing aggro decks (such as elves, Merfolk) by flying over with exalted kitesail freebooters (or chilling at 2 cards, going up to 3 to crack with a mantis rider, etc.). You could also play a Sword of Fire and Ice or similar for grindy matchups. Slowforge Mystic, as it were.
Feels like probably too much has to go right there, but if anyone's tried it it'd save me some trouble
Vs. Elves he ran me over in G1, but in G2 I opened 2x Mage plus an Image and then drew another Mage and a second Image off the top--ended up naming Heritage Druid, CoCo, Chord, Ezuri, and Elvish Archdruid, so he couldn't really do much. In G3 Meddling slowed him way down again and he went all-in on a Westvale Abbey activation for Ormendahl, hoping to fade Reflector Mage or Phantasmal Image for one turn, which he did--my topdecked Lieutenant got him to one life, but left me dead to the crackback. I sided in Crusader, Staticaster, and Dismember and sided out Thalias and a Freebooter. I very much doubt that T2 Mantis Rider is the right line, I think it's probably better to try to put together disruption from Kitesail, Meddling, Reflector, and Phantasmal Image to keep Ezuri out of play.
Vs. Hollow One I did not see Lavamancer last night, but I agree that that card is brutal against us. He saw a few Bolts but not enough to shut me down. I named Hollow One with Meddling in this match and held back a second blocker for his Flameblade Adept--since Thalia has first strike, she can eat Adepts all day long if she has a wingmate, even if it's only a Hierarch. Their RNG can work both ways, at times, but I haven't played against the deck enough to have a solid grasp of how consistently its shenanigans play out.
Hollow One, Dredge, and Company decks have me thinking about going back to 2x Grafdigger's in the side, maybe putting my 4th Reflector Mage back in the main in place of the flex slot I've been experimenting with. Cage doesn't stop Living End, but Meddling Mage sure does.
My experience leads me to believe that Thalia is crucial to the deck's gameplan, and that Phantasmal Image is the best card in the deck. Right now I would not run less than four of each.
Had recent success with this deck, two 4-0 at FNMs and a 3-2-1 finish at 35+ tournament.
Had so many responses to queries/comments but will try and keep it brief:
gaddock teeg / selfless spirit
I appreciate the comments that casting these creatures may be tricky, but I haven’t once had this problem and the cards have been invaluable in my sideboard. Dropping a gaddock teeg on turn 2 vs Tron is exceptionally helpful (and has recently won me a couple of games). Also vialling in a selfless spirit in response to a board wipe normally wins the game. For now I will be keeping a singleton copy of each in my sideboard.
tactics: Elves and Gx-Tron
Similarity to previous comments, any turn 2 and 3 disruption has really helped me in these match ups. Particularly against elves vialling an orzhov pontiff or izzet Staticaster in response to a CoCo seems to have a good effect if it can’t be played earlier. I did manage to beat G-Tron without any disruption, but had an exceptionally fast clock and was able to race them before they could play anything reasonable. However in this match I counted myself very lucky as the opponent had both Karn and Ugin in hand.
My current sideboard (very tailored to my FNM):
2 grafdiggers cage
1 anafenza, the foremost
2 auriok champion
2 mirran crusader
1 orzhov pontiff
1 izzet Staticaster
2 direfleet daredevil
1 ethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 selfless spirit
1 vithian renegades
Having watched recent GP match ups and my own findings, I often find that if the match up starts to get grindy the Human pilot pretty much relies on topdecks. I therefore wondered if the following configuration has some legs?
4 champion of the parish
4 Noble Hierarch
3 phantasmal image
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 kitesail Freebooter
4 meddling Mage
4 Thalia’s lieutenant
4 mantis rider
3 reflector Mage
1 Thalia, heretic cathar
4 aether Vial
Spells
4 lead the stampede
Land
4 cavern of souls
4 unclaimed territory
2 ancient ziggurat
4 horizon canopy
1 botanical sanctum
1 seachrome coast
2 Razorverge thicket
1 plains
Ok, so the major changes are a slight adjustment to the land base and the introduction of lead the stampede. Before people suggest I’m mad, I think it is worthy of consideration and shouldn’t be too hard to achieve. I think the mana base may need some more work, but in theory we have 11 sources that can produce G. Assuming we aren’t playing against UW/Grixis Control it is unlikely that the spell will be countered, and refilling our hand at turn 3/4 is pretty appealing. Obviously an argument could be made, that if I’m considering lead the stampede, why aren’t I prioritising Collected Company? My argument is simple, if we have an aether Vial active, potentially drawing 4-5 creatures and being able to play the one we need, is a better play than hitting two random off the top. I’m open to discussion though and want to hear if others have considered this route, or even tested it.
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
My current list has 2 dark Confidant in the main because of the meta. It’s great, but I was wondering if there was a better option for ensuring we don’t end up topdecking. One of the benefits of lead the stampede is it means that more than one Vial aren’t redundant.
Based on your comment about CoCo, do you think there is scope for it? Or is it over complicating an already successful deck?
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
I suspect you'd be better off playing eternal witness. Nobody will have yard hate. And it's gross with vial.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
You don't bring artifact hate in the mirror or against Storm.
It's so hard to get a workable manabase for both R and B without all 12 pain-free rainbow lands. (Anyone who plays this deck knows the occasional stumbling block of an early uncastable Freebooter or Mantis Rider off a Canopy, Seachrome Coast, and Hierarch mana draw.) One way to go would be a fetch/shock package like the one below. A fetch/shock package lets us run some basics which could offset a Vial-free deck's susceptibility to Field of Ruin or Blood Moon. (BTW I think you have to keep all the Ziggurats if you want to keep running Phantasmal Image, or good stuff like Kataki, War's Wage or Selfless Spirit in the side):
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Ancient Ziggurat
4x Windswept Heath
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Temple Garden
1x Stomping Ground
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
1x Plains
1x Forest
1x Island
That manabase seems super awkward. The City of Brass/Mana Confluence option seems much smoother but it is probably just as painful, maybe worse? It would be weaker to Blood Moon for sure... and again I think we need more than 19 lands to cast our non-creature spells--even if you went with Stampede you might want as many as 21 lands. So again no room for Vials.
It seems to me that one of the advantages Vial decks have over CoCo decks (besides the nearly pain-free land package) is that the only non-creature spell in the Vial decks acts as ramp for our speedy openers. CoCo needs Hierarch to play two board-impacting dudes on T3, but Vial can do it without the dork. Vial decks also run more creatures than a CoCo deck can, since they need more lands; so we offset the CoCo card advantage there a little bit. The other card advantage piece we play is that we have room for 4x Horizon Canopy, and they certainly don't, without significant concessions in the creature package compared to a Vial deck.
I think if you play CoCo you probably have to lose Freebooter at the least, and maybe just go Bant. Is CoCo worth it? I have no idea, this is all spitballing from me, so take it with a big grain of salt.
The advantage there is in a bant build you could run as many as 3 gavony townships; the disadvantage is you get wrecked by burn now and also lose some points against combo by not running the full disruption package.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
No, bob generates value if he survives, witness generates value as is. Also will basically always get an impactful card they have killed. Witness generally feels like drawing two cards on ETB in my experience since it always gets something good pretty much.
edit: Which isn't to say Bob isn't better in the deck just that he's not "just better" -- if you want to out grind control decks you're probably more likely to do that with witness drawing cards and being a body. Also quite possible Witness is better in a company build.
TL;DR witness is a mulldrifter, bob is a baneslayer
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
2-0 vs Hollow One : Same player that got me good last week, at 1-2. I had the right cards at the right time (Dismember ; Thalia and Big Thalia to double block their fatties). It was a race in the end, and a Lieutenant added enough to the board to drop him to 1 life. I was at 3 when I passed the turn. He only had Phoenix, and top decked Faithless Looting while I had an active Notion Thief on the battlefield. He conceded.
2-1 vs Lantern : Strange version of the deck, that runs a lot of Burn spells. A timely Vithian Renegade on game 3 destroyed Ensnaring Bridge so I could kill him in 2-3 turns.
0-2 vs Burn : Game 1 wasn’t even close. Game 2, I had 3 Vials (at 1, 2, and 3 counters) and 3 Noble Hierarch on the battlefield, attacking with a 3/4 every turn. I dropped him to 3, and I was at 1 life facing Eidolon and Goblin Guide. Then variance hit me hard : in the last turns, I top decked 3 lands (was already flood with too many lands, 3 dorks and 3 Vials). I think any Humans would have been enough, and opponent himself said he wasn’t supposed to win that game. After he burned the last point of damage, I revealed the top deck just for fun : 5 more lands.
Then I played a casual game vs RG Ponza and lost 1-2. I won game 1 with 2 Riders and Freebooter (taking Blood Moon). Game 2, I was ready to disrupt again with Freebooter and 2 Meddling Mage, but Blood Moon hit the battlefield on turn 2 before I could cast anything. With no Vial, I was dead. Game 3, I had Vial, but I wasn't careful and game value to Anger of the Gods. Blood Moon, Chandra, 2 Coursers, Kitchen Finks and Huntmaster then overwhelmed me.
How do you play the Burn and Ponza matchups?
I think Kambal should make a comeback in the deck, because Burn is increasingly more present in the Modern metagame (there's more Blood Moon, it's a deck that doesn't suffer much from it, and that has a good matchup against Humans and Jund). Kambal also kills Storm super good, and any Control deck. Auriok Champion is super good too, but seems less universally useful than Kambal, no? Also, about the debate of Anafenza vs Grafdigger’s Cage, I think the right call is probably one or the other, but both. We never want to draw the second Cage or the second Anafenza. Same is true for Gaddock Teeg. One of each is probably better, and reduce the chance we overshoot when sideboarding, reducing the consistency of our main strategy. This frees up a slot in my SB, that I can devote to Kambal, Auriok Champion or Heron's Grace Champion.
Against Ponza, I'm really clueless as to what would help from the SB. Dismember and Hostage Taker are nice, but they don't really disrupt their plan. Help?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Learning moment for me last week... against a 4c Zoo in game 3.
Cast two Images coping my opponents Kitchen Finks, gain 4 life, pass turn.
Block Op's alpha with said Images... Persist trigger, Image re-enters, choose new targets for Image ability..
Nice detail here, Your wurm generates tokens upon targeted exile effects (karn, ugin, path) while his doesn't.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Not like Todd Stevens during the super league !
Burn is usually toss dependant. Vial has more value G1 than post-SB because they may want to cut some Eidolons. I don't know what the consensus is among Burn players though. I never cut Vial anyway and it remains the T1 play no matter what.
I assume Aether Vial is as important in the Ponza MU. We have nothing stellar for that specific MU, sorry.
Kambal never made the cut in any of my lists, so I can't talk about a come back. He's gonna eat a Searing B's / Bolt and won't save the day. Auriok Champion is superior vs Burn, and also has applications in difficult MUs, while Kambal helps in already favorable MUs. The mana cost is also an issue, we have many 3-cmc SB cards and adding some isn't good for us, especially for fast MUs where the opening hands sometimes decide the outcome right away. We should be playing Sin Collector, and this is where one could fit Kambal instead.
Arashin Cleric has also seen play when Burn was popular. It's a narrower card though, and I don't think it's playable in such a wide meta.
I like this argument, however when you split like that, you're not improving specific MUs you want those cards for as much. If Hollow One is what you target, it's better to have 2 Cages, rather than a Gaddock / Ana. If you target Griselbrand, Anafenza may be way too slow and Cage faster, and 2 won't be too many since they have artifact hate (they're very well aware of Chalice and Cage). Anafenza is super slow anyway since most graveyard strats are decks that go off on T3 anyway. Kataki doesn't prevent Lantern from paying for their Ensnaring Bridge, that you'd rather destroy with Renegades. All in all, I think I will always play more copies of the card that does exactly what I want, even though it's narrower than its cousins. There's a balance to make between narrow and specific too.
The effect of the 4th Image is less impactful / needed than the first one, and at that point, than another Human. Same goes with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. While she is much needed in some MUs, she's bad in others and extra copies hurt your consistency (and sometimes your ability to apply enough pressure). The 4th copy is worse than another Human more often than it's needed. I'm unable to say when the time is right to run the 4th copy of either of these cards, but I'd probably wait for the meta to become less diverse.
What I meant, is instead of alloting 4 SB slots to 2 Cage/Anafenza and 2 Gaddock, I would be better with 1 Cage, 1 Anafenza and 1 Gaddock, freeing up a slot for Kambal or Auriok Champion.
Against Hollow One and Dredge, siding in 1 Cage and 1 Anafenza is good. You wouldn't want to draw 2 Cages or 2 Anafenza, anyway. And while Cage is an early response, Anafenza can still hit the field on T2 with Hierarch. She won't be removed by Bolt, can trade with Hollow One or block Amalgam, and disrupt their graveyard (and she's a Human).
Against Coco decks, you'd side in 1 Cage and 1 Gaddock. It's still a 2/2 that disrupts their plan with Coco (and is incidently very good against Karn, Ugin, Cryptic Command, Jace, Damnation, Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict, miracles, Scapeshift, etc.).
Against Burn/Zoo, side in 1 Kambal/Auriok and 1 Anafenza (she can't be removed by their burn spells, and is an amazing road block).
By combining these cards in pair, you won't suffer from duplicates, and can still tackle the matchups for which they're good for.
BTW, I'm 100% with you on the Kataki vs Renegades argument. Kataki won't ever win you a match vs Lantern that has resolved a Bridge, period.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Anyway I am going backwards with the list, to a certain extent. (No Mayors though.) I like Phantasmal as a 4-of since it is so amazingly versatile, and I like Thalia as a 4-of because I want to see her in every game since her effect is so asymmetrical for us and can be a powerful part of the tempo lines we sometimes take. I could see going down to 3 only, but copy #4 gives about a 9% greater chance of landing one on T2 when it matters, which seems like a pretty relevant figure. So for now this is what I am planning for the next couple weeklies I'll attend:
4x Ancient Ziggurat
4x Unclaimed Territory
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Horizon Canopy
2x Seachrome Coast
1x Plains
Creatures (37)
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Kitesail Freebooter
4x Meddling Mage
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Reflector Mage
4x Mantis Rider
1x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4x Aether Vial
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Dismember
2x Selfless Spirit
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Sin Collector
2x Izzet Staticaster
1x Heron's Grace Champion
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Auriok Champion
^I'm all aboard on this. When I talk with players who honestly act like Humans is the "boogeyman" of match-ups they always talk about the core cards... It was the "top-decked reflector mage" or the Mantis Rider or worse the Image copying Mantis Rider that broke the game.
I feel like the deck really only has one flex spot without reducing what makes it great and I think either another one-drop pilgrim/Inspector/Kytheon is as defensible as Dark Confidant or Kessig. If I were to cut one of the fundamental cards to a 3-of it would have to be a Thalia though. Having multiples of the Legend always hurts and when it is the most important card in the match-up I'd be just as happy to Vial in an Image in response to their targeted EOT removal that they were counting on giving them a "tax-free" next turn.
I haven't put much thought into it yet, but wouldn't Pithing Needle be useful as a sideboard card? It stops walkers, O-Stone, manlands, Lavamancer and some stuff that can be annoying.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Feels like probably too much has to go right there, but if anyone's tried it it'd save me some trouble
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall