So last weekend I played in a 32 person PPTQ and my thing in the ice / pyromancers ascension deck was paired again mono white D&T/Hatebears round 1 and 2. I felt completely hopeless. If you can't beat em join em.
So I now am building my own mono white D&T deck. Are there any streamers or good you tube videos I can watch to learn the details on how to play this deck?
Cheers!
Deathandcatmix has vods on his twitch and kendo may too. I think I have a game or two on my YouTube page too
Are there any streamers or good you tube videos I can watch to learn the details on how to play this deck?
If you look toward the bottom of the Primer itself (Page#1, Post#1 of this thread) just above the yellow Leonin Library banner there are a number of video links that the threadrunner deathandcatmix has collected.
To start, the theManaSource video is a good intro to the deck (at least so far as ~8min intros can be). Remember that the host isn't known for piloting D&T (and shouldn't be regarded as an expert) and you'll be fine.
Next, the PleasantKenobi video is good but about 2-3 times longer; he has experience as a D&T pilot himself and describes the cards in more detail.
After that you should have a pretty good feel for whats happening in most of the gameplay videos (from any color splash) even when the pilots aren't narrating every thought and action they make.*
(*In other words, you'll know the basics so you won't be lost in the mechanics of the streams, and you can focus more on learning the choices the pilots make in those streams.)
For more info (in text form) there's a lot of useful links in the Leonin Library section of the Primer (which is archived in that Spoiler tag under the yellow banner).
As LtGlitter mentioned, this thread has two members that are fairly regular twitch streamers (links: deathandcatmix and Jendo87). They often post a heads up on the thread when they're about to stream.
How have people found a 2-of or 3-of of the new Thalia? I replaced two Blade Splicer in my B&W Eldrazi & Taxes but I haven't had a chance to play against real opponents not on Xmage.
Thank you for the awesome report Jendo. Really enjoyed it and it's great to hear how a non-Eldrazi Temple list is doing. Elspeth and Blinkmoth Nexus sure put in their work it sounds like. Lingering Souls also sounded like it sealed the deal quite a few times.
Basically I swapped out my 2 Blade Splicer for the new Thalia although I think she might be best in GW shell. Anyone already tested ThaliaHC in GW, if so how was she performing and can you share a list? Thanks
I thought that it is obvious, that playing thAbyssal Persecutor reqiures some special shell. So does playing EldRazi. No one can say that TkS is bad because we need 4x ElTemplo, right?
There is an idea. Something like
3x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
4x Wall of Ressurgence
3x Abyssal Persecutor
Quick question for any BW DnT variation: is there any consensus regarding the correct number of Shambling Vents in our manabase? I'm currently working with 2 and it feels ok. I don't often see it but at least I also don't get to draw multiples that would hiccup my curve. what's the impression on running 3 of those fellas?
I don't know... Abyssal Persecutor seems like one of the worse 4 drops this deck might want to play. Resto, TKS, Hero of bladehold, linvala are all better in the spot.
What worries me the most though is playing a card that costs BB.
I totally agree. All mentioned cards were (still are) great when played. Why would you run cards that recquires an effort to work properly. Think about it: you opponent put a Spellskite and you'll never win, unless you path him AND your Abyssal. While you could run a better 4 drop (TKS, Hero, Linvala, Sublime Archangel or Gisela, the broken blade maybe?). And it gets worse when you look at the card and note that he's a BB.
Based on the Modern Nexus article, it appears we're about to drop back down to Developing Competitive. Based on statements in the article, I addressed the inconsistency with actual deck performance in the comments. Jason appears to be receptive to the matter.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Tier descriptions are so nebulous anyway that I don't think it really matters what you call D&T. It's put up impressive results and with the introduction of at least two new toys, I'm excited to see where it's going to be going in the coming months!
I don't know... Abyssal Persecutor seems like one of the worse 4 drops this deck might want to play. Resto, TKS, Hero of bladehold, linvala are all better in the spot.
What worries me the most though is playing a card that costs BB.
I totally agree. All mentioned cards were (still are) great when played. Why would you run cards that recquires an effort to work properly. Think about it: you opponent put a Spellskite and you'll never win, unless you path him AND your Abyssal. While you could run a better 4 drop (TKS, Hero, Linvala, Sublime Archangel or Gisela, the broken blade maybe?). And it gets worse when you look at the card and note that he's a BB.
Persecutor is the kind of card that doesn't do anything to help the deck. Resto blinks a dude AND has flash (doesn't depend on vial), TKS takes out a card forever from their hand, Linvala stops abilities shenanigans on the spot. Hero of Bladehold is the closest to Prosecutor, and it's still better as it leaves bodies behind, it creates inevitability on its own if not answered and can kill a guy in 1/2 attacks.
Prosecutor doesn't do anything but force you to play creatures that don't tax to make it reliable to get rid of it IF it drops the opponent to 0. Card is bad for the deck.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Round 1: Lantern control 2-1
I kept a descent hand against an unknown oppenent, and BAM, there is Jingle Bells!
I conceded fast in the fist. And won 2nd and 3rd.
In the second he managedt to stabilaze near 8 hp via bridge. I flooded the table with creatures, both small and big. At some point I vialed an Aily, sacraficed a Wall and a Persecutor. Then I removed his bridge and killed him.
In the third I mulled to 5, kept a stony silence and a Unmaking, then he discarded me, but I killed himby new Thalia.
Round 2: G-Eldrazi Tron 2 - 1
Nothing special here. I won 1 and 3rd, and lost 2nd mostly due to 2 mana screw.
Wall + Darksteel Citadel was super sweet, because his Oblivion Stone isnt able to kill an animated Citadel.
Thalia 2.0 was the Star here too!
Round 3: Grixis control 2-0
Theere was a classic DnT opening vial -> thalia -> arbiter + quarters GG WP
In the second Selfless Spirit + thatlia 2.0 + Arbiter did the job.
(My opponent have said that im kinda lucky bustard, so we played 5 more games untill end of the round. I won 4 of them)
Round 4: Eldrazi And Taxes 2 - 1
Well. In the first he sets his thalia 2.0 before me,and won.
In the second I did the same, and won.
In a third he showed me 3 TkS and 3 PtEs. I showed him 2 Walls + Darksteel Citadel and an Abyssal Persecutor. We both exchanged Thalias 2.0
I have reseted his vial by my Flicer, and at the endshpil he reilized that my 2 walls + CItade + PErsecutor kinda bigger than his 3TkS + Strangler.
But we did split anyway, it was a really good games.
PS
its about 1:30 am, and I'm here with a bottle of Porter, so I feel really sorry for all that mess with a/the article, but i just exhaused and have now will for proper spellchecking.
Best Wishes!
PPS
Special note about the Persecutor. During that tournament he was PATHED 3 times and terminated and sacrificed to fuel the Aily. and destroyed by an Oblostone.
He is so scary, that ppl kill him EVERY time =( sob But I cant say he is not usefull. He is good againts so many threats, like an Angler or a Rality Smasher, and he is a super fact clock. I think he performed well. Not brilliant, but quite descent.
Special note about the Persecutor. During that tournament he was PATHED 3 times and terminated and sacrificed to fuel the Aily. and destroyed by an Oblostone.
He is so scary, that ppl kill him EVERY time =( sob But I cant say he is not usefull. He is good againts so many threats, like an Angler or a Rality Smasher, and he is a super fact clock. I think he performed well. Not brilliant, but quite descent.
I know you did well in the tournament, but most of your anecdotal evidence in favor of Abyssal Persecutor are actually reasons to not play it.
If your opponent Paths your Persecutor, you've lost 3 mana worth of tempo, and you've gained a basic land. Except by the time you can cast Abyssal Persecutor, you don't need any more land, so you basically just lost 3 mana worth of tempo.
If your opponent plays Terminate on your Persecutor, you've lost 2 mana worth of tempo.
Being sacrificed to fuel Ayli is upside, I'll give you that.
Getting destroyed by an Oblivion Stone doesn't tell us enough about the board state to be meaningful. If Persecutor is the only thing destroyed by the Stone, then maybe that's worth something, because you've gained 4 mana worth of tempo. But you probably had other things on the board, which means that the Oblivion Stone actually did more work than just destroying the Persecutor.
Ultimately, all you did was verify what we already know: Persecutor is an effective beatstick, and it draws out removal. Well, Mangara costs one less mana and it also draws out removal, so when your opponent plays that removal on Mangara instead, you're less far behind than if you had played the Persecutor. We understand that Abyssal Persecutor is threatening, but the opportunity cost of running the Persecutor is another threatening thing (Linvala, Restoration Angel, Hero of Bladehold, etc.) that probably has a larger impact on the board state.
It's not going to surprise me, nor anyone else in this thread, that your opponents spent mana to remove Abyssal Persecutor from your side of the battlefield. What we really want to know is how many games did Abyssal Persecutor win, that you wouldn't have been able to win with a Linvala, Restoration Angel, or Hero of Bladehold?
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Quick question for any BW DnT variation: is there any consensus regarding the correct number of Shambling Vents in our manabase? I'm currently working with 2 and it feels ok. I don't often see it but at least I also don't get to draw multiples that would hiccup my curve. what's the impression on running 3 of those fellas?
I'm at 2. Multiples not only hurt your curve-out, they're also dead draws in the late game, because it's not often you'll have the right lands to activate two at once. There's also the nightmare scenario of an opener with vial but no untapped lands. I mostly play them because I need the fixing and there's no good options for untapped duals besides Shrines and Caves. Isolated Chapel doesn't work very well since the deck plays so few basics.
If you're on the eldrazi plan, play a basic plains instead of the 3rd vents, or if you want the fixing badly, a fetchland is fine(getting hurt by your own arbiter will almost never come up).
Quick question for any BW DnT variation: is there any consensus regarding the correct number of Shambling Vents in our manabase? I'm currently working with 2 and it feels ok. I don't often see it but at least I also don't get to draw multiples that would hiccup my curve. what's the impression on running 3 of those fellas?
I'm at 2. Multiples not only hurt your curve-out, they're also dead draws in the late game, because it's not often you'll have the right lands to activate two at once. There's also the nightmare scenario of an opener with vial but no untapped lands. I mostly play them because I need the fixing and there's no good options for untapped duals besides Shrines and Caves. Isolated Chapel doesn't work very well since the deck plays so few basics.
If you're on the eldrazi plan, play a basic plains instead of the 3rd vents, or if you want the fixing badly, a fetchland is fine(getting hurt by your own arbiter will almost never come up).
A couple comments in these regards:
Mana sinks (like manlands) are the opposite of a dead draw in late game. The fact that you are not likely able to activate both doesn't mean anything, sometimes it gains you life by helping you not having to ping you for 1 with a caves for one of the colors for the other manland activation. Plus instantly replaces the other vent if it gets bolted/killed.
The chances of opening with multiple vents is the reason you don't want to play more than 2, the nightmare is real and hurts a lot. It also sucks even if you don't open with vial, as you don't have a T2 play due to ETB tapped.
The reason to play them is not just the fixing, in any case Fetid Heath is great at fixing mana and provides colorless for Sea Gate Wreckage and eldrazi creatures/abilities (if you play them). Fetchlands are out of the question, and they will hurt you. Isolated chapel wouldn't be that bad if the deck played something like 8/10 basics + shocks, as Godless Shrine also counts as Swamp/Plains for chapel. I would still play vent over chapel every day, it helps against burn and control/midrange.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Special note about the Persecutor. During that tournament he was PATHED 3 times and terminated and sacrificed to fuel the Aily. and destroyed by an Oblostone.
He is so scary, that ppl kill him EVERY time =( sob But I cant say he is not usefull. He is good againts so many threats, like an Angler or a Rality Smasher, and he is a super fact clock. I think he performed well. Not brilliant, but quite descent.
What we really want to know is how many games did Abyssal Persecutor win, that you wouldn't have been able to win with a Linvala, Restoration Angel, or Hero of Bladehold?
Thats the good question, sir! And I have the answer. Speaking about latest tournament, I think, 3 of 4. The main reason I put AP into the deck - his ability to break stalemates that I can not win with traditional choices.
I know that in general our flying ladies do the work better. Maybe its about personal playstyle, or even personal lack of a skill, but I have a lot of games lost, because an opponent's dumb beater was bigger than mine. You have an angel, he have 5/6 tarmo. You have a Hero, he have a Reality Smasher, and so on. Or you kinda stale ground position, and stomp him with Resto, but sudden double cast of Lingerings Souls buys him 4 additional turn to find some removal.
Mangara, You say, is the removal magnet to, and its true. But the Mangara will shurely be killed by ANY removal: from bolt and decay to k-command and Izzet Staticcaster. The only thing that bothers the AP is the PtE and terminate-like spells. And I suppose, that at time when I put my Big Dumb Guy on a table, an enemy already spent that presious cards to remove something else.
Also Youre totally right about loss of tempo. But my idea is to play the AP in a game state when the tempo is already irrelevant!
I suppose there is MUs where the AP is totally useless. Something like 'i play with myself combo', but there is much more grindy games at that moment in Moscow. There is lots of trons, lots of drazies, and BGxs. So for now I belive he is a good pick.
Best wishes!
PS
Also consider this. An EOT vialed Persecutor will shurely kill almost any enemy planeswalker, that an opponent have played for PLUS last turn.
Special note about the Persecutor. During that tournament he was PATHED 3 times and terminated and sacrificed to fuel the Aily. and destroyed by an Oblostone.
He is so scary, that ppl kill him EVERY time =( sob But I cant say he is not usefull. He is good againts so many threats, like an Angler or a Rality Smasher, and he is a super fact clock. I think he performed well. Not brilliant, but quite descent.
What we really want to know is how many games did Abyssal Persecutor win, that you wouldn't have been able to win with a Linvala, Restoration Angel, or Hero of Bladehold?
Thats the good question, sir! And I have the answer. Speaking about latest tournament, I think, 3 of 4. The main reason I put AP into the deck - his ability to break stalemates that I can not win with traditional choices.
I know that in general our flying ladies do the work better. Maybe its about personal playstyle, or even personal lack of a skill, but I have a lot of games lost, because an opponent's dumb beater was bigger than mine. You have an angel, he have 5/6 tarmo. You have a Hero, he have a Reality Smasher, and so on. Or you kinda stale ground position, and stomp him with Resto, but sudden double cast of Lingerings Souls buys him 4 additional turn to find some removal.
Mangara, You say, is the removal magnet to, and its true. But the Mangara will shurely be killed by ANY removal: from bolt and decay to k-command and Izzet Staticcaster. The only thing that bothers the AP is the PtE and terminate-like spells. And I suppose, that at time when I put my Big Dumb Guy on a table, an enemy already spent that presious cards to remove something else.
Also Youre totally right about loss of tempo. But my idea is to play the AP in a game state when the tempo is already irrelevant!
I suppose there is MUs where the AP is totally useless. Something like 'i play with myself combo', but there is much more grindy games at that moment in Moscow. There is lots of trons, lots of drazies, and BGxs. So for now I belive he is a good pick.
Best wishes!
PS
Also consider this. An EOT vialed Persecutor will shurely kill almost any enemy planeswalker, that an opponent have played for PLUS last turn.
This is a very cool list. What are your best and worst matchups? Would you change anything to your decklist?
Havent enought statistics yet. Ill keep testing this build. Right now I think that the Jund MU have switched from Meh to Good. It's also true about the Grixis.
(Haven't I menshioned, that a proper timed AP makes a Lilly almost useless? )
Burn and Infect was always good for me, so I dont think that something was changed. From the one hand a persecutor is kinda blank, from the other hand, now I have Aylis that stops bot Glistener elf and Goblin Guide.
And new Thalias OFK will punish any tricolor deck very hard.
My worst MU was the fishfolks and the elves, and I dont think that this build will be more successful in a fist. BUT as soon we now have a perfect Spirit, we don't have spend our sideboard slots for tenders/hallow/brave the elements. So You may see huge amount of cheap removal here.
My plan against swarm decks is win postboard: explosives/persecution and wrath.
Thalias six pack gives us huuuge boost against reanimators deck, so that MUs became much more better. Thalia 2.0 alone will shut down any Breach or Vengeance combo.
It's much easier to play against the Trons. Now I don't have to bother about main oblstones and pyroclasms. If I'd side in something against earlier, now I don't have to. All main cards are super here.
AdNuseum MU was always a race. We need to fast clock him with thalias and other bears. New thalia helps a lot here. (yep Thalia 2.0 is the best hottiest ***** ever!)
I'm cant say anything about the UWR. That was a bad MU. And I have to test it a lot with new assets we have. I suppose that Thalia2.0 with the Spirit alone are able to switch that MU from bad to good. Will see.
Affinity, Tezerator and Bells - I think engereered explosives and lot of SS will do the job. Actually more than one bridge is a real pain in the ass. Maybe I should remove couple of cards in the SB for disenchants. I dunno.
Various Taxes/Hatebears - it's all bout topdecks anyway. Who will reset whose charged vial. Who will be able to find more PtEs and so on. I'm counting on Aylis and Persecutors here.
MartyrProc - that MU is crap, but I don't care. Better focus on the T1 decks.
General ideas:
- I'll try to play with numbers of creatures. 2 Aylis 4 spirits, 2 Persecutors 4 walls and so on.
- Miren, the Moaning Well seems relevant to my utilization big creatures plan.
- I really want to try new Gideon and/or UR Sword maindeck, but have not see any space. =(
Deathandcatmix has vods on his twitch and kendo may too. I think I have a game or two on my YouTube page too
To start, the theManaSource video is a good intro to the deck (at least so far as ~8min intros can be). Remember that the host isn't known for piloting D&T (and shouldn't be regarded as an expert) and you'll be fine.
Next, the PleasantKenobi video is good but about 2-3 times longer; he has experience as a D&T pilot himself and describes the cards in more detail.
After that you should have a pretty good feel for whats happening in most of the gameplay videos (from any color splash) even when the pilots aren't narrating every thought and action they make.*
(*In other words, you'll know the basics so you won't be lost in the mechanics of the streams, and you can focus more on learning the choices the pilots make in those streams.)
For more info (in text form) there's a lot of useful links in the Leonin Library section of the Primer (which is archived in that Spoiler tag under the yellow banner).
As LtGlitter mentioned, this thread has two members that are fairly regular twitch streamers (links: deathandcatmix and Jendo87). They often post a heads up on the thread when they're about to stream.
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Flickerwisp
3 Wasteland Strangler
1 Reality Smasher
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Lands
4 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Shambling Vent
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Basically I swapped out my 2 Blade Splicer for the new Thalia although I think she might be best in GW shell. Anyone already tested ThaliaHC in GW, if so how was she performing and can you share a list? Thanks
There is an idea. Something like
3x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
4x Wall of Ressurgence
3x Abyssal Persecutor
4x PTE
2x Unmaking
? 1x Murderous Cut
PLUS an appropriate mana base
MINUS all drazies
DnT! I'm a power-load
DnT! Watch me Explode
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
I totally agree. All mentioned cards were (still are) great when played. Why would you run cards that recquires an effort to work properly. Think about it: you opponent put a Spellskite and you'll never win, unless you path him AND your Abyssal. While you could run a better 4 drop (TKS, Hero, Linvala, Sublime Archangel or Gisela, the broken blade maybe?). And it gets worse when you look at the card and note that he's a BB.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter
Persecutor is the kind of card that doesn't do anything to help the deck. Resto blinks a dude AND has flash (doesn't depend on vial), TKS takes out a card forever from their hand, Linvala stops abilities shenanigans on the spot. Hero of Bladehold is the closest to Prosecutor, and it's still better as it leaves bodies behind, it creates inevitability on its own if not answered and can kill a guy in 1/2 attacks.
Prosecutor doesn't do anything but force you to play creatures that don't tax to make it reliable to get rid of it IF it drops the opponent to 0. Card is bad for the deck.
Just finished a local daily tournament: 4 - 0. There was 48 ppl here.
3 Darksteel Citadel
2 Shambling Vent
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Godless Shrine
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Plains
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
THINGS
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Wall of Resurgence
3 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Anguished Unmaking
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Selfless Spirit
1 Aven Mindcensor
3 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
1 Wrath of God
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Hide // Seek
Round 1: Lantern control 2-1
I kept a descent hand against an unknown oppenent, and BAM, there is Jingle Bells!
I conceded fast in the fist. And won 2nd and 3rd.
In the second he managedt to stabilaze near 8 hp via bridge. I flooded the table with creatures, both small and big. At some point I vialed an Aily, sacraficed a Wall and a Persecutor. Then I removed his bridge and killed him.
In the third I mulled to 5, kept a stony silence and a Unmaking, then he discarded me, but I killed himby new Thalia.
Round 2: G-Eldrazi Tron 2 - 1
Nothing special here. I won 1 and 3rd, and lost 2nd mostly due to 2 mana screw.
Wall + Darksteel Citadel was super sweet, because his Oblivion Stone isnt able to kill an animated Citadel.
Thalia 2.0 was the Star here too!
Round 3: Grixis control 2-0
Theere was a classic DnT opening vial -> thalia -> arbiter + quarters GG WP
In the second Selfless Spirit + thatlia 2.0 + Arbiter did the job.
(My opponent have said that im kinda lucky bustard, so we played 5 more games untill end of the round. I won 4 of them)
Round 4: Eldrazi And Taxes 2 - 1
Well. In the first he sets his thalia 2.0 before me,and won.
In the second I did the same, and won.
In a third he showed me 3 TkS and 3 PtEs. I showed him 2 Walls + Darksteel Citadel and an Abyssal Persecutor. We both exchanged Thalias 2.0
I have reseted his vial by my Flicer, and at the endshpil he reilized that my 2 walls + CItade + PErsecutor kinda bigger than his 3TkS + Strangler.
But we did split anyway, it was a really good games.
PS
its about 1:30 am, and I'm here with a bottle of Porter, so I feel really sorry for all that mess with a/the article, but i just exhaused and have now will for proper spellchecking.
Best Wishes!
PPS
Special note about the Persecutor. During that tournament he was PATHED 3 times and terminated and sacrificed to fuel the Aily. and destroyed by an Oblostone.
He is so scary, that ppl kill him EVERY time =( sob But I cant say he is not usefull. He is good againts so many threats, like an Angler or a Rality Smasher, and he is a super fact clock. I think he performed well. Not brilliant, but quite descent.
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If your opponent Paths your Persecutor, you've lost 3 mana worth of tempo, and you've gained a basic land. Except by the time you can cast Abyssal Persecutor, you don't need any more land, so you basically just lost 3 mana worth of tempo.
If your opponent plays Terminate on your Persecutor, you've lost 2 mana worth of tempo.
Being sacrificed to fuel Ayli is upside, I'll give you that.
Getting destroyed by an Oblivion Stone doesn't tell us enough about the board state to be meaningful. If Persecutor is the only thing destroyed by the Stone, then maybe that's worth something, because you've gained 4 mana worth of tempo. But you probably had other things on the board, which means that the Oblivion Stone actually did more work than just destroying the Persecutor.
Ultimately, all you did was verify what we already know: Persecutor is an effective beatstick, and it draws out removal. Well, Mangara costs one less mana and it also draws out removal, so when your opponent plays that removal on Mangara instead, you're less far behind than if you had played the Persecutor. We understand that Abyssal Persecutor is threatening, but the opportunity cost of running the Persecutor is another threatening thing (Linvala, Restoration Angel, Hero of Bladehold, etc.) that probably has a larger impact on the board state.
It's not going to surprise me, nor anyone else in this thread, that your opponents spent mana to remove Abyssal Persecutor from your side of the battlefield. What we really want to know is how many games did Abyssal Persecutor win, that you wouldn't have been able to win with a Linvala, Restoration Angel, or Hero of Bladehold?
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I'm at 2. Multiples not only hurt your curve-out, they're also dead draws in the late game, because it's not often you'll have the right lands to activate two at once. There's also the nightmare scenario of an opener with vial but no untapped lands. I mostly play them because I need the fixing and there's no good options for untapped duals besides Shrines and Caves. Isolated Chapel doesn't work very well since the deck plays so few basics.
If you're on the eldrazi plan, play a basic plains instead of the 3rd vents, or if you want the fixing badly, a fetchland is fine(getting hurt by your own arbiter will almost never come up).
A couple comments in these regards:
Mana sinks (like manlands) are the opposite of a dead draw in late game. The fact that you are not likely able to activate both doesn't mean anything, sometimes it gains you life by helping you not having to ping you for 1 with a caves for one of the colors for the other manland activation. Plus instantly replaces the other vent if it gets bolted/killed.
The chances of opening with multiple vents is the reason you don't want to play more than 2, the nightmare is real and hurts a lot. It also sucks even if you don't open with vial, as you don't have a T2 play due to ETB tapped.
The reason to play them is not just the fixing, in any case Fetid Heath is great at fixing mana and provides colorless for Sea Gate Wreckage and eldrazi creatures/abilities (if you play them). Fetchlands are out of the question, and they will hurt you. Isolated chapel wouldn't be that bad if the deck played something like 8/10 basics + shocks, as Godless Shrine also counts as Swamp/Plains for chapel. I would still play vent over chapel every day, it helps against burn and control/midrange.
Thats the good question, sir! And I have the answer. Speaking about latest tournament, I think, 3 of 4. The main reason I put AP into the deck - his ability to break stalemates that I can not win with traditional choices.
I know that in general our flying ladies do the work better. Maybe its about personal playstyle, or even personal lack of a skill, but I have a lot of games lost, because an opponent's dumb beater was bigger than mine. You have an angel, he have 5/6 tarmo. You have a Hero, he have a Reality Smasher, and so on. Or you kinda stale ground position, and stomp him with Resto, but sudden double cast of Lingerings Souls buys him 4 additional turn to find some removal.
Mangara, You say, is the removal magnet to, and its true. But the Mangara will shurely be killed by ANY removal: from bolt and decay to k-command and Izzet Staticcaster. The only thing that bothers the AP is the PtE and terminate-like spells. And I suppose, that at time when I put my Big Dumb Guy on a table, an enemy already spent that presious cards to remove something else.
Also Youre totally right about loss of tempo. But my idea is to play the AP in a game state when the tempo is already irrelevant!
I suppose there is MUs where the AP is totally useless. Something like 'i play with myself combo', but there is much more grindy games at that moment in Moscow. There is lots of trons, lots of drazies, and BGxs. So for now I belive he is a good pick.
Best wishes!
PS
Also consider this. An EOT vialed Persecutor will shurely kill almost any enemy planeswalker, that an opponent have played for PLUS last turn.
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This is a very cool list. What are your best and worst matchups? Would you change anything to your decklist?
(Haven't I menshioned, that a proper timed AP makes a Lilly almost useless? )
Burn and Infect was always good for me, so I dont think that something was changed. From the one hand a persecutor is kinda blank, from the other hand, now I have Aylis that stops bot Glistener elf and Goblin Guide.
And new Thalias OFK will punish any tricolor deck very hard.
My worst MU was the fishfolks and the elves, and I dont think that this build will be more successful in a fist. BUT as soon we now have a perfect Spirit, we don't have spend our sideboard slots for tenders/hallow/brave the elements. So You may see huge amount of cheap removal here.
My plan against swarm decks is win postboard: explosives/persecution and wrath.
Thalias six pack gives us huuuge boost against reanimators deck, so that MUs became much more better. Thalia 2.0 alone will shut down any Breach or Vengeance combo.
It's much easier to play against the Trons. Now I don't have to bother about main oblstones and pyroclasms. If I'd side in something against earlier, now I don't have to. All main cards are super here.
AdNuseum MU was always a race. We need to fast clock him with thalias and other bears. New thalia helps a lot here. (yep Thalia 2.0 is the best hottiest ***** ever!)
I'm cant say anything about the UWR. That was a bad MU. And I have to test it a lot with new assets we have. I suppose that Thalia2.0 with the Spirit alone are able to switch that MU from bad to good. Will see.
Affinity, Tezerator and Bells - I think engereered explosives and lot of SS will do the job. Actually more than one bridge is a real pain in the ass. Maybe I should remove couple of cards in the SB for disenchants. I dunno.
Various Taxes/Hatebears - it's all bout topdecks anyway. Who will reset whose charged vial. Who will be able to find more PtEs and so on. I'm counting on Aylis and Persecutors here.
MartyrProc - that MU is crap, but I don't care. Better focus on the T1 decks.
General ideas:
- I'll try to play with numbers of creatures. 2 Aylis 4 spirits, 2 Persecutors 4 walls and so on.
- Miren, the Moaning Well seems relevant to my utilization big creatures plan.
- I really want to try new Gideon and/or UR Sword maindeck, but have not see any space. =(
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