I played with this shell bit today. Seems sweet. Not going into great detail but have to say, it's absolutely worth testing the spirit. The early game feels so much better with so much anti-disruption. Academy is also potentially going to be crazy against hand disruption.
I didn't get the reason to play Godless Shrine, but the list seems really sweet though. Edit: I guess your sideboard may have black cards or Lingering Souls.
That depends on if it's a hit in standard. It's place in legacy and Modern is niche so I expect it to drop to about 3 or 4, but the 6 dollar tag it has now isn't bad.
Wow Catmix, spellskite x4 AND selfless spirit x3 maindeck. That is some serious protection. I am not sure that is ideal. I think 4 spellskites is too much maindeck. I hate drawing more than 1 most games, unless I am also running something that can pump them like rancor, equipment, or planeswalker.
That being said. Since you are running so much creature protection, have you thought about trying out Hokori Dustdrinker, maybe just as a singleton. Such great synergy with Thalia 1.0 and Thalia 2.0. Its main issue is the low toughness, but the spellskites and spirits take care of that. I personally have never tested Hokori, but I have also never tried running that much protection. Just a thought.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
Hokori looks like he'll be right at home in a GW list with NobleH, ThaliaHC, and lots of protection. I'm so excited for the online release of EMN coming at the start of August.
(I'm also considering dsmonsta's RW-planeswalkers-in-GW-via-Nissa idea here. Ajani+Hokiri and Ajani+ThaliaHC looks like fun. But maybe that's too many ideas to squeeze into one list.)
Hokori looks like he'll be right at home in a GW list with NobleH, ThaliaHC, and lots of protection.
Good idea with trying Hokori in GW. The hierarchs can power ThaliaHC and Hokori out faster, and the mana dorks help break the symmetry. Could be a very interesting additional path to take with D&T. It is amazing what a couple extra tools can do for deckbuilding! What a great set for modern!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
Apologies to those who were waiting for it, but I've finally updated the uncommon splashes not-a-primer. At the moment, only WU D&T is available.
Any and all feedback is welcome. Please feel free to either respond to this post, or to PM me directly. If you want to contribute to an uncommon splash, including WU, WR, or tri-color, please let me know, and if you want to do testing for an uncommon splash, that would also be greatly appreciated.
Please keep in mind that the not-a-primer is a work in progress, and it will slowly evolve over time, much like the primer post.
And finally, a big thanks to SpiderSpace, who helped me make this happen for the WU section. Spider has been piloting WU D&T on-and-off for a while, and his input and testing were really useful. Thanks again, Spider!
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Yes! I'm still running black cards in the board (Sin Collector and Orzhov Pontiff). The caves fuel thought-knot seer and the plethora of humans leads to a desire to test cavern. more than 40% of my creatures have tribal line-ups (revoker/skite= horror, thalis/pontiff/hunter=human, arbiter/hunter/selfless=cleric etc.)
I know four skites is a bit excessive but its the only way to know if the new additions are working. As I find out what works, I will start shaving them back down. Also, robot mom is better than people are realizing at the moment.
I'm not saying this is a mastered list either, I meant this is a good starting point for testing. I wouldn't run this at an Open or anything like that. Strictly a recommended place to start referencing for the new cards. As soon as they are availble online, I will test variations of the lists so we can see the new cards in action. The only cards I really need to pick up are noble hierch and I can begin testing every color splash as needed.
see you guys soon!
EDIT: @charonsobol added to leonin library as well!
R1 win vs temur blood moon midrange
R2 win vs infect
R3 win vs bring to light scapeshift
R4 loss (and i was paired down) vs elves
R5 win vs merfolk
R6 intentional draw
R1 (top 8) loss vs elves (the same guy who beat me R4 )
So yeah i'm pretty happy how it went. Elves is the worst matchup ever for this version, orzhov pontiff is the thing i miss most from the black version, i'll have to find something in the board for that. Selfless spirit and spellskite were zero useful, even vs infect i don't need skite so i'll probably get a couple of gaddock teeg instead (for CoCo mainly). Collected company from elves really wrecks me. Also the guy was playing vines of vastwood and denied me of my removal on a key creature at a key time . First time i see the card in elves but i must say it works
Wow Catmix, spellskite x4 AND selfless spirit x3 maindeck. That is some serious protection. I am not sure that is ideal. I think 4 spellskites is too much maindeck. I hate drawing more than 1 most games, unless I am also running something that can pump them like rancor, equipment, or planeswalker.
That being said. Since you are running so much creature protection, have you thought about trying out Hokori Dustdrinker, maybe just as a singleton. Such great synergy with Thalia 1.0 and Thalia 2.0. Its main issue is the low toughness, but the spellskites and spirits take care of that. I personally have never tested Hokori, but I have also never tried running that much protection. Just a thought.
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Is there anyone testing with a green white list? Noble Hierarch seems so powerfull with the new Thalia.
If you stay monowhite I feel you want to be running selfless spirits, but also Judge's Familiars. It's another mana restraint and with that can protect your threats.
Edit. Also, if you are indeed going 'all in' on the selfless spirits I feel Wrath of God should also be serious consideration for the sideboard. I have played it in the board before and it was often already really good then. I can only imagine how good it is with multiple selfless spirits in the deck.
I've been testing and reporting with G/W for a few weeks now. Scroll up a few post to see my list. i've been enjoying hierarch, witness and oath, but black's removal is sometimes missed, can't have it all!
I'm new to this discussion, but has anyone considered adding Mangara of Corondor in the Mono-white version of the deck?
It can be used as a walking piece of removal and has some OP interactions with Restoration angel, Flickerwisp(with vail), and Eldrazi Displacer.
In addition it allows for a mana denial package with Tech edge, and Ghost Quarter. Overall in testing the deck on Tappedout, it's work quite well as a 2-3 of.
Also running new Thalia as a 4 of, is proving to be great disruption, and the 3/2 first strike, as well as protection from Eiganjo Castle, is nice.
I'm new to this discussion, but has anyone considered adding Mangara of Corondor in the Mono-white version of the deck?
It can be used as a walking piece of removal and has some OP interactions with Restoration angel, Flickerwisp(with vail), and Eldrazi Displacer.
In addition it allows for a mana denial package with Tech edge, and Ghost Quarter. Overall in testing the deck on Tappedout, it's work quite well as a 2-3 of.
Also running new Thalia as a 4 of, is proving to be great disruption, and the 3/2 first strike, as well as protection from Eiganjo Castle, is nice.
Hey KP_TCG, welcome to the forum! In regards to Mangara, yes this has been covered countless times in the old primer thread - the overwhelming majority of players feel it is far to slow in a removal heavy meta, being that it needs to live an entire turn cycle to do anything. However, some people do run a copy in their SB and have had some success, but that is quite rare. I've even seen legacy versions drop the card recently due to the prevalence of delver varients, infect and storm, against which mangara is basically a time walk for the caster.
... anyone considered adding Mangara of Corondor in the Mono-white version of the deck?
He's mentioned a bit in the old primers themselves (v.2, v.1) as well as in the discussion on those threads, but it can be a lot to crawl through and some of the older stuff is out of date.
The most recent discussions of Mangara (from the last month), around hereor so on the last thread, are basically up to date.
The one thing to note is that those discussions were pre-ThaliaHC so things may have shifted slightly; the more she can slow the game down the more viable Mangara becomes. A lot of us are cautiously hopeful about adding a couple maindeck Mangara, but it'll be tough for her to slow things enough that casting Mangara feels reliably safe.
If you have any playtesting info combining new Thalia + old Mangara then please, do tell!
Wow Catmix, spellskite x4 AND selfless spirit x3 maindeck. That is some serious protection. I am not sure that is ideal. I think 4 spellskites is too much maindeck. I hate drawing more than 1 most games, unless I am also running something that can pump them like rancor, equipment, or planeswalker.
That being said. Since you are running so much creature protection, have you thought about trying out Hokori Dustdrinker, maybe just as a singleton. Such great synergy with Thalia 1.0 and Thalia 2.0. Its main issue is the low toughness, but the spellskites and spirits take care of that. I personally have never tested Hokori, but I have also never tried running that much protection. Just a thought.
Root maze and ghostly prison are not creatures, therefore suboptimal. Archangel of Tithes and ghostly prison only tax creatures and not lands directly. Also, I don't see how recommending testing a single Hokori is "going this far".
My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
I'm new to this discussion, but has anyone considered adding Mangara of Corondor in the Mono-white version of the deck?
It can be used as a walking piece of removal and has some OP interactions with Restoration angel, Flickerwisp(with vail), and Eldrazi Displacer.
In addition it allows for a mana denial package with Tech edge, and Ghost Quarter. Overall in testing the deck on Tappedout, it's work quite well as a 2-3 of.
Also running new Thalia as a 4 of, is proving to be great disruption, and the 3/2 first strike, as well as protection from Eiganjo Castle, is nice.
I have run Mangara since I started playing modern D&T (which was basically the first day the original primer was posted). I initially started with 3, then 2, now 1. I have cut him several times, but always come back to a singleton. I like having a card in the deck that can take out any permanent if needed. Yes, needing to tap sucks, but I usually vial him in at end of turn so it is less of a problem. Running spellskite helps protect him until he can do his thing. The new selfless spirit will help this as well. I have on numerous occasions been able to flicker him to remove 2+ permanents. I don't think I have ever lost a game when that happened. I have even lived the dream of playing Mangara in a WU D&T build where I used Minamo, School at Water's Edge to untap and exile again and then flicker, and then do it again the next turn to exile 4 permanents!
I also run 3-4 resto angels to maximize my flicker/blink effects. The reason I like Mangara is the flexibility. Need a stone rain? Mangara has you covered. Need to unmake a creature. Mangara is there again? And once in a while he does a couples points of damage that wins the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
@Eronrelentless how about basilisk collar? Also, what do you think about -1 crusader and +1 avenger? Just curious what your thoughts are
Basilisk Collar seems strong in Creature Battles with your First Strikers but it's a defensive Card then and your opponent will just let your Thalias pass and take the 2 or 3 damage. I would only play this card in the Deck if you are using some kind of Timmy like Cunning Sparkmage in a WR List.
Well sorry for ignoring the Mirran Crusader questions. It's debate less that Mirran Crusader is one of the most potent Creatures in Modern despite dying to Lightning Bolt. It's almost unbeatable against Jund/Abzan, Infect, Suicide Zoo, Dredge, Company and Living End. Also it provides a very good Clock against the Combo Decks like Ad Nauseam. Paired with Sword of War and Peace or Sword of Fire and Ice it is unstoppable and kills the opponent in 2 attacks. I would say that this is the best Beater below 4 Mana that the Deck has and it can compete with almost every Creature which costs one Mana more than itself.
Eron,
I am trying a list like yours on MTGO after having played GW hatebears, and a couple other lists. It's performing very well so far, my first friendly league gave me the 5-0. I'm wondering, when do you bring in the Gideons? I'm thinking Jund/Jeskai/assorted other control decks. However, in those matches I always want to hit my sphere creatures quickly, which seems like it would make the Gideons incredibly hard to cast. Have you found this to be the case?
I'm new to this discussion, but has anyone considered adding Mangara of Corondor in the Mono-white version of the deck?
It can be used as a walking piece of removal and has some OP interactions with Restoration angel, Flickerwisp(with vail), and Eldrazi Displacer.
In addition it allows for a mana denial package with Tech edge, and Ghost Quarter. Overall in testing the deck on Tappedout, it's work quite well as a 2-3 of.
Also running new Thalia as a 4 of, is proving to be great disruption, and the 3/2 first strike, as well as protection from Eiganjo Castle, is nice.
I have run Mangara since I started playing modern D&T (which was basically the first day the original primer was posted). I initially started with 3, then 2, now 1. I have cut him several times, but always come back to a singleton. I like having a card in the deck that can take out any permanent if needed. Yes, needing to tap sucks, but I usually vial him in at end of turn so it is less of a problem. Running spellskite helps protect him until he can do his thing. The new selfless spirit will help this as well. I have on numerous occasions been able to flicker him to remove 2+ permanents. I don't think I have ever lost a game when that happened. I have even lived the dream of playing Mangara in a WU D&T build where I used Minamo, School at Water's Edge to untap and exile again and then flicker, and then do it again the next turn to exile 4 permanents!
I also run 3-4 resto angels to maximize my flicker/blink effects. The reason I like Mangara is the flexibility. Need a stone rain? Mangara has you covered. Need to unmake a creature. Mangara is there again? And once in a while he does a couples points of damage that wins the game.
The Minamo interaction is sweet. I wonder if there's a home for Mangara in UW spirit/taxes? Also, in a RW (eldrazi?) build, the interaction with hanweir battlements could be cool - you could vial in leaving up a garrison activtion incase they want to try and remove him before you untap forcing them to have 2 removal spells. The garrison would also make topdeck Mangara better late game. Hmmmm...
I'm new to this discussion, but has anyone considered adding Mangara of Corondor in the Mono-white version of the deck?
It can be used as a walking piece of removal and has some OP interactions with Restoration angel, Flickerwisp(with vail), and Eldrazi Displacer.
In addition it allows for a mana denial package with Tech edge, and Ghost Quarter. Overall in testing the deck on Tappedout, it's work quite well as a 2-3 of.
Also running new Thalia as a 4 of, is proving to be great disruption, and the 3/2 first strike, as well as protection from Eiganjo Castle, is nice.
I have run Mangara since I started playing modern D&T (which was basically the first day the original primer was posted). I initially started with 3, then 2, now 1. I have cut him several times, but always come back to a singleton. I like having a card in the deck that can take out any permanent if needed. Yes, needing to tap sucks, but I usually vial him in at end of turn so it is less of a problem. Running spellskite helps protect him until he can do his thing. The new selfless spirit will help this as well. I have on numerous occasions been able to flicker him to remove 2+ permanents. I don't think I have ever lost a game when that happened. I have even lived the dream of playing Mangara in a WU D&T build where I used Minamo, School at Water's Edge to untap and exile again and then flicker, and then do it again the next turn to exile 4 permanents!
I also run 3-4 resto angels to maximize my flicker/blink effects. The reason I like Mangara is the flexibility. Need a stone rain? Mangara has you covered. Need to unmake a creature. Mangara is there again? And once in a while he does a couples points of damage that wins the game.
The Minamo interaction is sweet. I wonder if there's a home for Mangara in UW spirit/taxes? Also, in a RW (eldrazi?) build, the interaction with hanweir battlements could be cool - you could vial in leaving up a garrison activtion incase they want to try and remove him before you untap forcing them to have 2 removal spells. The garrison would also make topdeck Mangara better late game. Hmmmm...
For what it's worth, the Minano interaction is explained in the WU Card Choice list, and SpiderSpace piloted a list (WU Death & Control) with the interaction to a 4-1 finish in a Modern league about a week ago.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I didn't get the reason to play Godless Shrine, but the list seems really sweet though. Edit: I guess your sideboard may have black cards or Lingering Souls.
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
That being said. Since you are running so much creature protection, have you thought about trying out Hokori Dustdrinker, maybe just as a singleton. Such great synergy with Thalia 1.0 and Thalia 2.0. Its main issue is the low toughness, but the spellskites and spirits take care of that. I personally have never tested Hokori, but I have also never tried running that much protection. Just a thought.
(I'm also considering dsmonsta's RW-planeswalkers-in-GW-via-Nissa idea here. Ajani+Hokiri and Ajani+ThaliaHC looks like fun. But maybe that's too many ideas to squeeze into one list.)
Good idea with trying Hokori in GW. The hierarchs can power ThaliaHC and Hokori out faster, and the mana dorks help break the symmetry. Could be a very interesting additional path to take with D&T. It is amazing what a couple extra tools can do for deckbuilding! What a great set for modern!
Any and all feedback is welcome. Please feel free to either respond to this post, or to PM me directly. If you want to contribute to an uncommon splash, including WU, WR, or tri-color, please let me know, and if you want to do testing for an uncommon splash, that would also be greatly appreciated.
Please keep in mind that the not-a-primer is a work in progress, and it will slowly evolve over time, much like the primer post.
And finally, a big thanks to SpiderSpace, who helped me make this happen for the WU section. Spider has been piloting WU D&T on-and-off for a while, and his input and testing were really useful. Thanks again, Spider!
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Yes! I'm still running black cards in the board (Sin Collector and Orzhov Pontiff). The caves fuel thought-knot seer and the plethora of humans leads to a desire to test cavern. more than 40% of my creatures have tribal line-ups (revoker/skite= horror, thalis/pontiff/hunter=human, arbiter/hunter/selfless=cleric etc.)
I know four skites is a bit excessive but its the only way to know if the new additions are working. As I find out what works, I will start shaving them back down. Also, robot mom is better than people are realizing at the moment.
I'm not saying this is a mastered list either, I meant this is a good starting point for testing. I wouldn't run this at an Open or anything like that. Strictly a recommended place to start referencing for the new cards. As soon as they are availble online, I will test variations of the lists so we can see the new cards in action. The only cards I really need to pick up are noble hierch and I can begin testing every color splash as needed.
see you guys soon!
EDIT: @charonsobol added to leonin library as well!
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
I went 4-1-1, placing 3rd in the swiss rounds, lost 1st round of top 8.
The list i used :
4 path to exile
Artifacts : 4
4 Æther vial
enchantments : 4
4 oath of nissa
creatures : 28
4 noble hierarch
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 leonin arbiter
2 kor skyfisher
2 scavenging ooze
4 flickerwisp
4 eternal witness
2 eldrazi displacer
2 stonecloaker
2 plains
2 forest
2 temple garden
4 brushland
4 razorverge thicket
4 ghost quarter
2 tectonic edge
4 burrenton forge-tender
4 qasali pridemage
2 spellskite
2 sunlance
1 selfless spirit
1 aven mindcensor
1 bojuka bog
R1 win vs temur blood moon midrange
R2 win vs infect
R3 win vs bring to light scapeshift
R4 loss (and i was paired down) vs elves
R5 win vs merfolk
R6 intentional draw
R1 (top 8) loss vs elves (the same guy who beat me R4 )
So yeah i'm pretty happy how it went. Elves is the worst matchup ever for this version, orzhov pontiff is the thing i miss most from the black version, i'll have to find something in the board for that. Selfless spirit and spellskite were zero useful, even vs infect i don't need skite so i'll probably get a couple of gaddock teeg instead (for CoCo mainly). Collected company from elves really wrecks me. Also the guy was playing vines of vastwood and denied me of my removal on a key creature at a key time . First time i see the card in elves but i must say it works
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
I've been testing and reporting with G/W for a few weeks now. Scroll up a few post to see my list. i've been enjoying hierarch, witness and oath, but black's removal is sometimes missed, can't have it all!
It can be used as a walking piece of removal and has some OP interactions with Restoration angel, Flickerwisp(with vail), and Eldrazi Displacer.
In addition it allows for a mana denial package with Tech edge, and Ghost Quarter. Overall in testing the deck on Tappedout, it's work quite well as a 2-3 of.
Also running new Thalia as a 4 of, is proving to be great disruption, and the 3/2 first strike, as well as protection from Eiganjo Castle, is nice.
Hey KP_TCG, welcome to the forum! In regards to Mangara, yes this has been covered countless times in the old primer thread - the overwhelming majority of players feel it is far to slow in a removal heavy meta, being that it needs to live an entire turn cycle to do anything. However, some people do run a copy in their SB and have had some success, but that is quite rare. I've even seen legacy versions drop the card recently due to the prevalence of delver varients, infect and storm, against which mangara is basically a time walk for the caster.
Thalia HC on the other hand...
He's mentioned a bit in the old primers themselves (v.2, v.1) as well as in the discussion on those threads, but it can be a lot to crawl through and some of the older stuff is out of date.
The most recent discussions of Mangara (from the last month), around here or so on the last thread, are basically up to date.
The one thing to note is that those discussions were pre-ThaliaHC so things may have shifted slightly; the more she can slow the game down the more viable Mangara becomes. A lot of us are cautiously hopeful about adding a couple maindeck Mangara, but it'll be tough for her to slow things enough that casting Mangara feels reliably safe.
If you have any playtesting info combining new Thalia + old Mangara then please, do tell!
Root maze and ghostly prison are not creatures, therefore suboptimal. Archangel of Tithes and ghostly prison only tax creatures and not lands directly. Also, I don't see how recommending testing a single Hokori is "going this far".
I have run Mangara since I started playing modern D&T (which was basically the first day the original primer was posted). I initially started with 3, then 2, now 1. I have cut him several times, but always come back to a singleton. I like having a card in the deck that can take out any permanent if needed. Yes, needing to tap sucks, but I usually vial him in at end of turn so it is less of a problem. Running spellskite helps protect him until he can do his thing. The new selfless spirit will help this as well. I have on numerous occasions been able to flicker him to remove 2+ permanents. I don't think I have ever lost a game when that happened. I have even lived the dream of playing Mangara in a WU D&T build where I used Minamo, School at Water's Edge to untap and exile again and then flicker, and then do it again the next turn to exile 4 permanents!
I also run 3-4 resto angels to maximize my flicker/blink effects. The reason I like Mangara is the flexibility. Need a stone rain? Mangara has you covered. Need to unmake a creature. Mangara is there again? And once in a while he does a couples points of damage that wins the game.
Eron,
I am trying a list like yours on MTGO after having played GW hatebears, and a couple other lists. It's performing very well so far, my first friendly league gave me the 5-0. I'm wondering, when do you bring in the Gideons? I'm thinking Jund/Jeskai/assorted other control decks. However, in those matches I always want to hit my sphere creatures quickly, which seems like it would make the Gideons incredibly hard to cast. Have you found this to be the case?
Legacy: Maverick
The Minamo interaction is sweet. I wonder if there's a home for Mangara in UW spirit/taxes? Also, in a RW (eldrazi?) build, the interaction with hanweir battlements could be cool - you could vial in leaving up a garrison activtion incase they want to try and remove him before you untap forcing them to have 2 removal spells. The garrison would also make topdeck Mangara better late game. Hmmmm...
For what it's worth, the Minano interaction is explained in the WU Card Choice list, and SpiderSpace piloted a list (WU Death & Control) with the interaction to a 4-1 finish in a Modern league about a week ago.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps