I think that the conflict with Chalice of the Void and our 1-mana spells is close to negligible. My testing is still ongoing, but I've sided in the Chalice in roughly 2/3 of my matchups, and I haven't had a single instance of conflict yet (knock on wood).
2/3 of matchups seems like a lot of matchups. Are you siding it in when you see bolts/paths? I'm wondering how effective it is against less fringe decks..I am considering running it now as im thinking infect might be a big part of the meta as well as delver being something - along with all the fringe decks - bogles, living end etc
I don't expect the number to stay at 2/3, to be honest with you (more like 1/2). The sample size is still small, and I've run into decks that it shuts down hard, like RG Tron (no eggs, maps, Stirrings) and WBC Eldrazi Processors (no relics, Path, discard).
I think your list looks pretty good. I would maybe test 1-2 Ghost Quarter in the 60 (it's doing phenomenally for me), but that's pretty much it for the mainboard. In the sideboard, I would evaluate Pithing Needle critically to see if it would outperform the likes of Dispel, Negate, Unified Will, or Chalice of the Void, and you more than likely don't need more than 2 Relics.
If I use Phantasmal Image to copy a Master of the Waves that's already in play, does the Master's trigger ability go off again with Phantasmal and make more tokens for me? Jw
- New Merfolk player here
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Decks Modern UGWRB Humans G Mono-Green Tron UWBR Ad Nauseam
Alright similar question, does phantasmal image copying fish trigger reejerey?
I'm guessing no since its not a fish as its cast, but if anyone knows for sure that would be nice.
That being said, what are people's thoughts on mana now.
I've been trying 2 caverns 4 muta 2 gq 1 oboro + islands in an 8-seas build, but it can make it difficult some of our double blue cards on t2, or either seas t1/2.
Its not been terrible, but with chalice, I like cavern a lot more, and gq is really good now, so I'm not sure where I want to be just yet.
Nope. Reej triggers only on casting. This is one of the reasons I still haven't reached for Phantasmal Image just yet. I think it's better in Legacy, where Merrow Reejerey plays a smaller role (if any), and it can copy the almighty True-Name Nemesis (that said, it still doesn't play nice with Cavern of Souls).
As far as the mana base goes... I've been running virtually the same as you for a 4-Seas build:
This has been working out phenomenally, and while my testing is still not complete, I can recommend it. If you're having a bit of trouble casting things because of your 8-Seas build, perhaps you should trim 1 Ghost Quarter for another Island (I haven't tested my 8-Seas version with this manabase, but I intend to).
Some info on Phantasmal Image that might be useful for new players;
1. Phantasmal Image is cast as an Illusion, then becomes whatever it clones as it enters the battlefield
-Cavern of Souls on Merfolk does not make Phimage uncounterable (Cavern on "Illusion" does)
-Phimage does not trigger Merrow Reejerey
-Phimage cloning Silvergill is itself when being cast but Silvergill when it enters, so you do not have to reveal a card but do get to draw one
2. Phantasmal Image does not target
-Phimage can clone another Phimage, becoming whatever the first one cloned. This does not make you sac the first one (unless it's legendary of course)
-Kira, Great Glass Spinner does not prevent you from cloning your creatures
-Your opponent can not respond to you choosing a creature to clone. Say you have a Silvergill and a Cursecatcher on board. You cast Phimage, your opponent says ok, and you make a Silvergill; your opponent can not kill the silvergill after (s)he ok'd the cast. However, (s)he can kill the silvergill in response to Phimage being cast, forcing you to copy Cursecatcher instead.
-Related to the above, you do not have to say what you plan to clone before your opponent lets Phimage resolve
-However, watch out when casting Phimage if there is only one creature on the board; they can kill it in response, making your Phimage enter as a 0/0 and die instantly for a 2 for 1
3. Always keep in mind Phantasmal Image's sacrifice effect
-any additional effect to a removal spell targeting Phantasmal Image does not happen, becaue Phimage dies before it resolves and the spell fizzles: you do not get to search a land if it gets Path to Exiled (and it goes to graveyard), you do not take damage if it gets Searing Blooded, and your opponent does not gain 3 life if it gets Lightning Helixed.
-Redirecting a spell targeting Phimage to your Spellskite does not save Phimage, nor does countering the spell. In the same vein, Kira's effect does not protect Phimage at all
-If you have a Lord of Atlantis and a Phimage cloning LoA, and your opponent casts Maelstrom Pulse, if (s)he targets the original LoA, both Phimage and LoA will die. If (s)he targets Phimage, the sacrifice trigger will make Maelstrom Pulse fizzle for having no target, and the original LoA will live.
-You can't untap your Phimage with Merrow Reejerey. It will die and it will be very embarassing
And some other things:
-Kira and Phimage interact weirdly. Example; you control a Kira and a Phimage, your opponent casts Kolaghan's Command shocking Phimage and destroying your aether vial. Kira will counter the spell, but Phimage's sacrifice effect will still trigger because it got targeted. Thus, Phimage dies but Aether Vial does not, as Phimage dies to his sac trigger but Kira countered the spell.
-Phantasmal Image cloning a Mutavault creates a Mutavault land that can tap for mana and that has not been animated yet; if you'd want to block with it right after it got put into play, you will have to pay 1 mana.
-Persist and Phimage are also a bit odd; if you clone a Kitchen Finks for example, and Phimage would die, it goes to the graveyard, returns to the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter, and is able to clone any new creature. It does not become Kitchen Finks again unless you want it to.
-Last point to press importance:be very strict with your Aether Vial activations when playing Phantasmal Image. You tap your vial, pass priority, then put Phimage into play if you want to. Do NOT reveal Phimage before your opponent oks the vial being tapped, and they do NOT get to respond anymore once you put Phimage into play. If you have only one creature on the battlefield, tap your vial, and your opponent responds by killing your creature, you do not have to put Phantasmal Image into play anymore; Aether Vial says "MAY put into play". You can save yourself from a lot of 2 for 1s by knowing the interactions between Vial and Phimage
EDIT: whoa that became a lot more than I intended. I hope it's helpful though
One of the big things that I believe Bearscape forgot to mention, and the reason why half of those interactions work, is because like most clones, Phantasmal Image does NOT target (meaning it get's around hexproof as well)
Its mentioned, but the post is edited
Didn't know the persist/undying one, that is pretty interesting.
As for mana bases, is minamo still worth playing?
Choke will likely be a lot less common, as will boil, but blood moons, fulminator mage, tectonic edge, etc are all still going to be seen, so the island might be a better call.
Unless of course merfolk becomes more popular and we have to play around islandwalk.
Truth be told, the non-IslandU sources might only be relevant for the mirror going forward. I don't see a deck that can run it and has a horrific default matchup against us (several run the gamut from 50/50 to unfavorable, but none are horrific), so there's not a whole lot of motivation to run Choke in a post-Twin world.
Phimage is also used for destroying Bridge from Below (don't copy anything).
Phimage is not so good against Living End (if it is already in the graveyard) since it can't copy anything when Living End resolves.
Went 3-1 at a $15 modern tournament last night, finished 4th. My sideboard was a mess, had to rush converting my deck back from legacy. Forgot to put dismember in my 75, and my only removal were Harbingers and 2 vapor snag, oops. Managed to go 3-1. Beat UR Twin 2-1, lost to UTron 0-2 mulliganed to 5 and got mana flooded, game 2 he kept playing ratchet bomb. Beat Abzan 2-0. Beat a mono red aggro 2-1.
Am I right in assuming in this current meta without Twin or Summer Bloom, Merfolk is just as strong as GR Tron now? From my point of view, both Tron & Merfolk struggle against extremely fast aggro (namely Infect, Affinity, and Elves). And Merfolk is pretty powerful against BGx Midrange strategies. So I'm right in my assumption right?
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
In terms of power level, we're up there with anybody - this deck is somewhat unique in that it can cover most of its weaknesses. Whether popularity catches up with us is another issue.
Side note - I really haven't been struggling against Infect all that much. It's 50/50 in Game 1, then Chalice of the Void comes in to shut them down. The only matchups among Tiered decks where I genuinely feel like an underdog are Affinity and Elves.
I don't expect the number to stay at 2/3, to be honest with you (more like 1/2). The sample size is still small, and I've run into decks that it shuts down hard, like RG Tron (no eggs, maps, Stirrings) and WBC Eldrazi Processors (no relics, Path, discard).
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Sounds favorable to a 8 seas build??
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
- New Merfolk player here
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
Thanks!
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
I'm guessing no since its not a fish as its cast, but if anyone knows for sure that would be nice.
That being said, what are people's thoughts on mana now.
I've been trying 2 caverns 4 muta 2 gq 1 oboro + islands in an 8-seas build, but it can make it difficult some of our double blue cards on t2, or either seas t1/2.
Its not been terrible, but with chalice, I like cavern a lot more, and gq is really good now, so I'm not sure where I want to be just yet.
As far as the mana base goes... I've been running virtually the same as you for a 4-Seas build:
- 2 Cavern of Souls
- 2 Ghost Quarter
- 10 Island
- 1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
- 4 Mutavault
- 1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
This has been working out phenomenally, and while my testing is still not complete, I can recommend it. If you're having a bit of trouble casting things because of your 8-Seas build, perhaps you should trim 1 Ghost Quarter for another Island (I haven't tested my 8-Seas version with this manabase, but I intend to).
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
1. Phantasmal Image is cast as an Illusion, then becomes whatever it clones as it enters the battlefield
-Cavern of Souls on Merfolk does not make Phimage uncounterable (Cavern on "Illusion" does)
-Phimage does not trigger Merrow Reejerey
-Phimage cloning Silvergill is itself when being cast but Silvergill when it enters, so you do not have to reveal a card but do get to draw one
2. Phantasmal Image does not target
-Phimage can clone another Phimage, becoming whatever the first one cloned. This does not make you sac the first one (unless it's legendary of course)
-Kira, Great Glass Spinner does not prevent you from cloning your creatures
-Your opponent can not respond to you choosing a creature to clone. Say you have a Silvergill and a Cursecatcher on board. You cast Phimage, your opponent says ok, and you make a Silvergill; your opponent can not kill the silvergill after (s)he ok'd the cast. However, (s)he can kill the silvergill in response to Phimage being cast, forcing you to copy Cursecatcher instead.
-Related to the above, you do not have to say what you plan to clone before your opponent lets Phimage resolve
-However, watch out when casting Phimage if there is only one creature on the board; they can kill it in response, making your Phimage enter as a 0/0 and die instantly for a 2 for 1
3. Always keep in mind Phantasmal Image's sacrifice effect
-any additional effect to a removal spell targeting Phantasmal Image does not happen, becaue Phimage dies before it resolves and the spell fizzles: you do not get to search a land if it gets Path to Exiled (and it goes to graveyard), you do not take damage if it gets Searing Blooded, and your opponent does not gain 3 life if it gets Lightning Helixed.
-Redirecting a spell targeting Phimage to your Spellskite does not save Phimage, nor does countering the spell. In the same vein, Kira's effect does not protect Phimage at all
-If you have a Lord of Atlantis and a Phimage cloning LoA, and your opponent casts Maelstrom Pulse, if (s)he targets the original LoA, both Phimage and LoA will die. If (s)he targets Phimage, the sacrifice trigger will make Maelstrom Pulse fizzle for having no target, and the original LoA will live.
-You can't untap your Phimage with Merrow Reejerey. It will die and it will be very embarassing
And some other things:
-Kira and Phimage interact weirdly. Example; you control a Kira and a Phimage, your opponent casts Kolaghan's Command shocking Phimage and destroying your aether vial. Kira will counter the spell, but Phimage's sacrifice effect will still trigger because it got targeted. Thus, Phimage dies but Aether Vial does not, as Phimage dies to his sac trigger but Kira countered the spell.
-Phantasmal Image cloning a Mutavault creates a Mutavault land that can tap for mana and that has not been animated yet; if you'd want to block with it right after it got put into play, you will have to pay 1 mana.
-Persist and Phimage are also a bit odd; if you clone a Kitchen Finks for example, and Phimage would die, it goes to the graveyard, returns to the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter, and is able to clone any new creature. It does not become Kitchen Finks again unless you want it to.
-Last point to press importance: be very strict with your Aether Vial activations when playing Phantasmal Image. You tap your vial, pass priority, then put Phimage into play if you want to. Do NOT reveal Phimage before your opponent oks the vial being tapped, and they do NOT get to respond anymore once you put Phimage into play. If you have only one creature on the battlefield, tap your vial, and your opponent responds by killing your creature, you do not have to put Phantasmal Image into play anymore; Aether Vial says "MAY put into play". You can save yourself from a lot of 2 for 1s by knowing the interactions between Vial and Phimage
EDIT: whoa that became a lot more than I intended. I hope it's helpful though
so helpful. Thanks a lot!
UMerfolkU
BWBW TokensBW
Didn't know the persist/undying one, that is pretty interesting.
As for mana bases, is minamo still worth playing?
Choke will likely be a lot less common, as will boil, but blood moons, fulminator mage, tectonic edge, etc are all still going to be seen, so the island might be a better call.
Unless of course merfolk becomes more popular and we have to play around islandwalk.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Phimage is not so good against Living End (if it is already in the graveyard) since it can't copy anything when Living End resolves.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Side note - I really haven't been struggling against Infect all that much. It's 50/50 in Game 1, then Chalice of the Void comes in to shut them down. The only matchups among Tiered decks where I genuinely feel like an underdog are Affinity and Elves.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers: