I suspect u/w will stay a reasonable alternative, and perhaps will be more appealing than it has in the past, but while mono-u may also have to adapt, I can't imagine it become splash or stop playing.
That being said, I feel that I've said an awful lot about u/w fish over the years, and every time someone tries to splash white, they do things differently, and it doesn't work. I've had plenty of success (albeit locally) with u/w fish, and its not because I'm playing with questionable land bases or doing it only so I can add kataki and stony silence to the sideboard.
Ernewein has apparently been on WU Merfolk for quite some time, so I assume he has reasons for his manabase being the way it is. As far as the variant's viability, though, my main point would be that the proven competitive variant of Merfolk is mono-U, and until further notice, WU has to prove it can do well, as opposed to people assuming it can. Personally, I'm very skeptical of it based on my experience - it was inconsistent in my hands, and most people who have tried it will say the same.
Ernewein has apparently been on WU Merfolk for quite some time, so I assume he has reasons for his manabase being the way it is. As far as the variant's viability, though, my main point would be that the proven competitive variant of Merfolk is mono-U, and until further notice, WU has to prove it can do well, as opposed to people assuming it can. Personally, I'm very skeptical of it based on my experience - it was inconsistent in my hands, and most people who have tried it will say the same.
I know the answer will come after doing some playtesting. But I just want to ask: Do you prefer 8 W colored mana sources or 10 W colored mana sources? And which do you think is a good starting place?
I just read through the last 2-3 pages on here and I think people are making mistakes thinking that counterspells and blood moon decks will just disappear - ive even read ppl saying that bolts will become less prevalent. While to some extent these cards may be slightly less prevalent - there are plenty of blue mages out there that want to keep playing mtg and will continue to play these cards in different decks - UWR midrange, control, UR delver/prowess, grixis delver/midrange/control, RUG tempo/midrange etc.
Dropping Caverns, Kira and running Phantasmal Image may seem awesome but when you come across snap-bolt, snap-helix, snap-terminate decks you'll wonder why you ever cut Kira, caverns and played PI..
I'm sure someone has probably mentioned this, but, has anyone noticed how on certain printings of Lord of Atlantis is says "All Merfolk" and on others it says "Other Merfolk"??? This is a pretty big difference. Can anyone help me out with this? I know my 7th edition Lord of Atlantis' use the word "All" which would make him a 3/3, correct?
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Decks Modern UGWRB Humans G Mono-Green Tron UWBR Ad Nauseam
Open Play (to calibrate things)
Round 1 - Win?
G1: Opening Hand - Cavern, 2 Vial, MoPT, Cursecatcher, Silvergill, MoW
I was on the play and my first draw was another Silvergill, so I opened with double vial. My opponent opens with Utopia Sprawl on a forest, followed up by Courser of Kruphix and Eidolon of Blossoms. I dismembered the Courser, ghost quartered his Forest, and vialed in a MoPT and he conceded.
G2: - 4 Cursecatcher + 3 Tidebinder Mage + 1 Dismember
Opening Hand - Never happened. He timed out after 5 minutes. (Side note - I wish people would just end the match if they’re not going to come back).
Round 2 - Win versus Bant Blink?
G1: Opening Hand - Island, Minamo, Oboro, 2 Silvergill, Reejerey, Dismember
I’m on the play and really have no idea about this hand. My opponent opens with a Seaside Citadel into a Sandsteppe Citadel, so I’m not worried yet, but also not sure if I’m playing Knight Reliquary or some other Bant brew. I played an Adept into a Reejerey and then played 2 more Adepts, a Lord, a Cursecatcher, and a Dismember on turn 4 (thanks Reejerey) to which the opponent conceded.
G2: - 4 Master of Waves + 3 Tidebinder Mage + 1 Dismember
Opening Hand - Mulligan to 2 Island, Oboro, Spell Pierce, Cursecatcher, MoPT with another Spell Pierce I keep on top.
I’m on the draw and assume he has either no T2 action (taplands) or it’s a bird, so I start with Cursecatcher. I draw another Lord and he casts a Coiling Oracle. Draw and play Reejerey, then drop another Lord and win. He tried casting Momentary Blink but I pierced it and that was that.
Round 3 - Win 2-0 versus Jeskai Geist
G1: Opening Hand - Mulligan to Island, Oboro, Vial, Reejerey, Vapor Snag, Seas with a Lord on top.
I’m on the draw and they quickly play a Geist and get me down to 8 before I can spreading Seas all of their red sources and stabilize with a Reejerey, Lord, and Cursecatcher. I land a Master of Waves and they concede.
G2: - 1 Dismember + 1 Spell Pierce
Opening Hand - Island, Ghost Quarter, Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas, Silvergill, Lord, MoPT
I thought I should have brought in Relic for Image this game as well, but luckily I was able to image a Lord to swing for the kill. Otherwise this game just took too long and involved my opponent endlessly lightning bolting and helixing my creatures.
Modern League
Round 1 - Won 2-0 versus RG Tron.
G1: Mulliganed to an opening hand of 2 Island, Cursecatcher, Harbinger, Reejerey, Master of Waves with a Silvergill on top.
I was on the draw and my opponent opens with Urza’s Tower and Chromatic Star, which makes me feel bad because I mulliganed a hand with Spreading Seas but not enough creatures (1). C’est la vie. I land a Reejerey and a Lord and the opponent concedes on turn 5, probably unable to find the third Tron land.
G2: + 2 Negate + 1 Spell Pierce, - 1 Dismember - 2 Harbinger
I mulligan again, keeping Island, Aether Vial, 2 Vapor Snag, Reejerey, Lord of Atlantis with a Cursecatcher on top. I’m realizing I probably should have taken out the Snags, but oh well. I get a Cursecatcher, Lord, and Reejerey on the board before he casts a spellskite and rending volleys my Reejerey. Phantasmal Image comes down, copying the Lord, I snag his spellskite back and swing in, then repeat this process next turn for the win.
Round 2 - Won 2-1 versus Storm
G1: Opening Hand - 2 Island, Oboro, Silvergill, Harbinger, Master of Waves, and Spell Pierce
I’m on the draw and my opponent opens with Flooded Strand - Island - Sleight of Hand. T2 I pierce Pyromancer’s Ascension, then get a Silvergill on the board and worry about the lack of interaction in my hand (historically I’ve been unlucky against Storm). The opponent seems to be digging for something, so I seas the Sulfur Falls and play a Cursecatcher in defense. They get a Steam Vents out, cast another Pyromancer’s Ascension, and I basically sit back and F6.
G2: MTGO Quit on me so I didn’t get to sideboard. Opening hand - I mulliganed down to Island, Mutavault, Vial, Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas, Reejerey.
The opponent gets a defense grid down on turn 2 and a Pyromancer’s Ascension on T3, but I spreading seas the only red source they have and they concede next turn.
G3: + 2 Relic + 2 Negate + 1 Spell Pierce + 1 Dismember - 1 Phantasmal Image - 2 Vapor Snag - 2 Harbinger - 1 Master of Waves
Opening Hand - Island, Cavern, Cursecatcher, MoPT, Reejerey, Seas, Master of Waves
I was on the draw and they clearly learned from last time, fetching two red sources immediately and landing an Ascension. I negate the defense grid and cursecatcher a ritual. I’m starting to wonder if I should have brought in Chalice. The opponent goes digging for a lot of cards, then I draw my third land, cast a Reejerey, and swing for the kill. (Sidenote - I realized that I brought out the Vapor Snags thinking I would bring in Chalice, then didn’t bring in Chalice, so those probably would have been better than Dismember.)
Round 3 - Lost 0-2 to Ad Nauseum.
G1: Opening Hand - Island, Oboro, Vial, Image, Harbinger, MoPT, Reejerey
I’m playing LordCommanderSnow and his Ad Nauseum + Angel’s Grace deck. Needless to say, I almost kill him before he Lightning Storms me for 22.
G2: - 2 Vapor Snag - 1 Dismember + 2 Negate + 1 Spell Pierce
Opening Hand - Mutavault, Island, Vial, Harbinger, Seas, Reejerey with a Lord of Atlantis on top.
This was similar to G1. We had a great chat and I’m really excited to see this play out at the pro tour. It feels like watching Amulet play, just much less disruptable.
Round 4 - Won 2-0 versus Blue Moon?
G1: Opening Hand - Island, Cavern, Cursecatcher, MoPT, Harbinger, Image, MoW
I’m on the draw, my opponent lands a jace and two Sleight of Hands later has it flipped. I’m not quite sure what they are playing, but it involves Spreading Seas and Steam Vents, so I’m thinking Blue Moon. I got enough Lords out and they folded.
G2 + 2 Relic + 1 Spell Pierce + 1 Dismember - 4 Spreading Seas
Opening Hand - I mulligan to Minamo, Mutavault, Vial, Image, Silvergill, MoPT with a Spell Pierce on Top.
I get two lords on board, my opponent Cliques their own hand, can’t find what they need and concedes.
Round 5 - Win 2-1 versus Burn.
G1: Opening Hand - Oboro, Minamo, Cavern, Spell Pierce, MoPT, Vial, Spreading Seas
I’m on the play, keeping an interesting hand, and leading with a Vial. I’m playing burn, they play a Goblin Guide, and swing. I am able to cast Spreading Seas on two Sacred Foundries, and then get enough creatures on the board to Islandwalk through.
G2 + 3 Tidebinder Mage + 2 Negate - 4 Spreading Seas - 1 Dismember
Opening Hand - 2 Island, Ghost Quarter, Negate, 2 Master of Waves with a Vapor Snag on top.
I shouldn’t have kept this hand and I lose swiftly.
G3: No changes.
Opening Hand - Island, Oboro, Tidebinder, Silvergill, MoPT, 2 MoW
I open with Tidebinder, Reejerey, and chain a Silvergill and 2 Lords together at which point they concede.
Thoughts This deck feels good so far - much faster and more resilient than prior builds I had (older builds were close to Nikachu’s list 3-6 months back). I haven’t had any real situations where the creatures I had weren’t the ones I wanted. Image offered a bit of flexibility and I didn’t miss Kira at all (I know many of you have been saying this). I think the higher threat density and Ghost Quarters for Wanderwine Hub is really powerful. I played a few matches that weren’t listed above because the opponent conceded or nothing terribly interesting happened. I slaughtered Tron a few times in single games (I don’t think they liked main deck Ghost Quarter) and had a durdling match with Lantern Control. I’m excited to move forward with this for a while, and really looking forward to testing it against more Tier 1 decks, since I played a range of weirder stuff.
A few questions:
1. What’s the right play against Storm?
2. I know to bring in Recall against Lantern Game 2 & 3 so that I can attack through their bridges, but what do we do game 1 - try not to play lords and just kill them with Cursecatcher? Play aggro and stop ensaring bridge?
Im the worst or the most unlucky Merfolk player of the World lol (probably just need more experience, just my second night toying with it before a real FNM)
My points:
-Few games against a Naya Zoo Friend
-Come on, too dependent of Spreading Seas...I had few creatues, he has a lot of Burning Tree, Ape, Experiment One and others....no Islandwalk enabled -_-
-When he had a slow start, wheres my Dismember ? Only 2 on deck, its veryyyy hard to see one
-When he had just a few lands...no spell pierce came. When he had 5-6 lands, guess what? 2 Spell Pierce on hand...come on...
Maybe I should try 8 seas list, since Islandwalk is a must in my opinion
Not 100% happy about the main deck 2 Spell Pierce / 2 Dismember or Vapor Snag
Ernewein has apparently been on WU Merfolk for quite some time, so I assume he has reasons for his manabase being the way it is. As far as the variant's viability, though, my main point would be that the proven competitive variant of Merfolk is mono-U, and until further notice, WU has to prove it can do well, as opposed to people assuming it can. Personally, I'm very skeptical of it based on my experience - it was inconsistent in my hands, and most people who have tried it will say the same.
I believe this was his reasoning which he then explained in the comments.
The problem with running fetchs and shocks is that you give up quite a bit against Burn and Scapeshift to do so. Merfolk’s greatest advantage in both matchups is that you don’t give them any cards by Bolting yourself which usually buys you an extra turn to force through lethal. Your cantrips make finding a white source easy enough that I wouldn’t worry about adding more sources in.
Grixis and GBx are still going to be prevalent and I expect that most Twin players will turn their decks into some form of tempo or control so while the Level 0 tier one expectation is for non-interactive decks, I’d hedge against the Level 1 response and simply being wrong. And having a flier to block Inkmoth Nexus is no small thing.
Having playing Image in Legacy, I still don’t think it’s very good. It’s still terrible in an attrition fight and as a topdeck after a sweeper, which were always my main problems with it. I’d still leave it at home.
If I knew that the tournament would be 50% or more Eldrazi and Tron then I’d absolutely pack Sea’s Claim as a 3-4 of main. Otherwise just leave it. Attacking Burn’s lands rarely works out and is too tempo negative even for Spreading Seas so unless I’m knocking my opponent off significant amounts of mana it isn’t worth it.
I know the answer will come after doing some playtesting. But I just want to ask: Do you prefer 8 W colored mana sources or 10 W colored mana sources? And which do you think is a good starting place?
I guess the question to me is, why would you NOT want to run white? Are two Hallowed Fountains / 1 Flooded Strand and 1 Fountain really that much of a dealbreaker? Lots of decks are already running some number of Seachrome Coast / Wanderwine Hub as a hedge against Choke anyway, so I never really understood the argument against wanting to play Path to Exile / Stony Silence basically for free.
This is easy to answer: because it hasn't done anything. The cards that theoretically would make it good have been here for a while. So have the decks that they're supposed to be good against (Affinity is a pillar of the format, for crying out loud). It has had ample opportunity (and some very vocal supporters), and has done nothing. And "nothing" doesn't mean "is the little brother, but still has regular showings" - you can count its showings with one hand and have fingers to spare. It has years of do-nothing to overcome, and as such it's going to have to make some major showings before I even consider recommending it.
I've also moved on from the Choke protection - that was a marginal card even before the Twin ban, and it will be even more so afterward. We have more to fear from Blood Moon and Fulminator Mage now, and I think that will be the case going forward.
I just read through the last 2-3 pages on here and I think people are making mistakes thinking that counterspells and blood moon decks will just disappear - ive even read ppl saying that bolts will become less prevalent. While to some extent these cards may be slightly less prevalent - there are plenty of blue mages out there that want to keep playing mtg and will continue to play these cards in different decks - UWR midrange, control, UR delver/prowess, grixis delver/midrange/control, RUG tempo/midrange etc.
Dropping Caverns, Kira and running Phantasmal Image may seem awesome but when you come across snap-bolt, snap-helix, snap-terminate decks you'll wonder why you ever cut Kira, caverns and played PI..
You have a point, and it's a point I've made earlier - we shouldn't alter the shell too drastically until we know how things shake out in the metagame at large. It might not end up being all that different.
I'm sure someone has probably mentioned this, but, has anyone noticed how on certain printings of Lord of Atlantis is says "All Merfolk" and on others it says "Other Merfolk"??? This is a pretty big difference. Can anyone help me out with this? I know my 7th edition Lord of Atlantis' use the word "All" which would make him a 3/3, correct?
The reason why older printings of Lord of Atlantis have "All Merfolk" instead of "Other Merfolk" is because they were not Merfolk themselves. If you look at the creature type, it's Lord. However, all copies (regardless of the text written on the physical card) of Lord of Atlantis use the Oracle text rules as specified by Wizards of the Coast. Try the Gatherer search engine online if you're unsure of how any given card plays.
Im the worst or the most unlucky Merfolk player of the World lol (probably just need more experience, just my second night toying with it before a real FNM)
My points:
-Few games against a Naya Zoo Friend
-Come on, too dependent of Spreading Seas...I had few creatues, he has a lot of Burning Tree, Ape, Experiment One and others....no Islandwalk enabled -_-
-When he had a slow start, wheres my Dismember ? Only 2 on deck, its veryyyy hard to see one
-When he had just a few lands...no spell pierce came. When he had 5-6 lands, guess what? 2 Spell Pierce on hand...come on...
Maybe I should try 8 seas list, since Islandwalk is a must in my opinion
Not 100% happy about the main deck 2 Spell Pierce / 2 Dismember or Vapor Snag
That's surprising, given that I usually don't have a lot of trouble with Zoo. Are you packing Dispel in your sideboard for their spells and Tidebinder Mage for their creatures? Also, how many Master of Waves are you running?
I'm sure someone has probably mentioned this, but, has anyone noticed how on certain printings of Lord of Atlantis is says "All Merfolk" and on others it says "Other Merfolk"??? This is a pretty big difference. Can anyone help me out with this? I know my 7th edition Lord of Atlantis' use the word "All" which would make him a 3/3, correct?
Im the worst or the most unlucky Merfolk player of the World lol (probably just need more experience, just my second night toying with it before a real FNM)
My points:
-Few games against a Naya Zoo Friend
-Come on, too dependent of Spreading Seas...I had few creatues, he has a lot of Burning Tree, Ape, Experiment One and others....no Islandwalk enabled -_-
-When he had a slow start, wheres my Dismember ? Only 2 on deck, its veryyyy hard to see one
-When he had just a few lands...no spell pierce came. When he had 5-6 lands, guess what? 2 Spell Pierce on hand...come on...
Maybe I should try 8 seas list, since Islandwalk is a must in my opinion
Not 100% happy about the main deck 2 Spell Pierce / 2 Dismember or Vapor Snag
That's surprising, given that I usually don't have a lot of trouble with Zoo. Are you packing Dispel in your sideboard for their spells and Tidebinder Mage for their creatures? Also, how many Master of Waves are you running?[/quote]
Well, I`m not feeling worst because was friendly matchs...without sideaboard at all...just maindeck, but was enough to see that Game 1 is INSANE...Naya Zoo is faster and furious than us game 1. Next time I will give a try with sideboard and give you a new reply Rothgar =) And im using 4 MoW
Note: these are not my views, I'm so far still in favour of the mono-U build. What I do agree on is that Unified Will, a card I actually started liking quite a bit feels clunky in a more aggressive meta.
Also, just published, my decklist on TC Decks of an IQ where I reached top 8, late last year. This was the first time I started playing fish in over 6 months. The Spellskites were cut straight after the event
This still a testlink to be confirmed by TC, but will be up shortly. http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19371&iddeck=147341
He said THIS:
Note: Echoing Truth is and has always been insane against tokens. Blight Herder frequently makes a lot of tokens. So does Lingering Souls. More decks should be playing this card.
.... Scrub!
Please for the love of good do not try to bounce an eldrazi Token! Sacc and Fizzle makes you look dumb and stupid.
I'm sure someone has probably mentioned this, but, has anyone noticed how on certain printings of Lord of Atlantis is says "All Merfolk" and on others it says "Other Merfolk"??? This is a pretty big difference. Can anyone help me out with this? I know my 7th edition Lord of Atlantis' use the word "All" which would make him a 3/3, correct?
There isn't a single Lord of Atlantis that is printed right. And everyone has to know that. You are no obliged to tell anybody. The real rulestext can be found here: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lord of atlantis
And that is the only way Lord of Atlantis is allowed to play no matter what the card reads.
If your opponent asks, tell him to ask a judge. You should not answer a question about him simply because you can lose a game by unintentionally getting it wrong. its a "not win - lose" situation, so don't do it.
More about that can be found in Nikachus Vid about competitive play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_4IYwtkcb0&list=PLQ8LePd6n-IwHfy31rP2RRzMeWt6eGMoC
So should I just play it like it says "Other Merfolk get +1/+1"??? Jw
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So should I just play it like it says "Other Merfolk get +1/+1"??? Jw
On the 7th edition, Lord of Atlantis' creature type is not Merfolk, it's a Lord. So by that technicality, even if his effect grants all Merfolk +1/+1, he himself is not a Merfolk and is unable to gain the effect.
After realizing that removing Vial was silly, I've repented and took this for a spin through some open play and the modern league
I came to this same conclusion. Vial is actually super useful. It's sometimes a dead card, but it's just too important to not have in the deck. It enables so many different kinds of plays that the benefits outweigh the negative.
[quote]So should I just play it like it says "Other Merfolk get +1/+1"??? Jw
On the 7th edition, Lord of Atlantis' creature type is not Merfolk, it's a Lord. So by that technicality, even if his effect grants all Merfolk +1/+1, he himself is not a Merfolk and is unable to gain the effect.
This has been very helpful. Thank you
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This is why Oracle text exists, and why I insisted that my Lord of Atlantis copies be of the Time Spiral Timeshifted variety, despite the 7th edition version having superior artwork. I have no desire to explain that it's a Merfolk to my opponents.
Something I think will get better if Kiki-Chord becomes more prevelent is something I like, Grafdigger's Cage and Pithing Needle sideboard. Grafdigger's Cage shuts off the combo, and is decent for snapcaster decks, Elves, and CoCo decks. Pithing Needle shuts off Qasali Pridemage and is plenty effective against Tron and other decks.
How does Grafdigger's Cage shut off a Kiki-Chord combo?
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Modern UMerfolkU WUBRGPeopleGRBUW U Turbo Turns U UB Fae BU WBG Aristocrats GBW
I'm sure someone has probably mentioned this, but, has anyone noticed how on certain printings of Lord of Atlantis is says "All Merfolk" and on others it says "Other Merfolk"??? This is a pretty big difference. Can anyone help me out with this? I know my 7th edition Lord of Atlantis' use the word "All" which would make him a 3/3, correct?
There is currently no paper copy of Lord of Atlantis with the exact Oracle text on it.
You'll also notice that your 7th edition Lord of Atlantis doesn't have the creature type Merfolk on it
The Timespiral version is the closest to true oracle text (just remove the type Lord) Lord of Atlantis
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Something I think will get better if Kiki-Chord becomes more prevelent is something I like, Grafdigger's Cage and Pithing Needle sideboard. Grafdigger's Cage shuts off the combo, and is decent for snapcaster decks, Elves, and CoCo decks. Pithing Needle shuts off Qasali Pridemage and is plenty effective against Tron and other decks.
How does Grafdigger's Cage shut off a Kiki-Chord combo?
Not specifically the combo, but it shuts off the cord for so they have to have the combo in hand and cast it.
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That being said, I feel that I've said an awful lot about u/w fish over the years, and every time someone tries to splash white, they do things differently, and it doesn't work. I've had plenty of success (albeit locally) with u/w fish, and its not because I'm playing with questionable land bases or doing it only so I can add kataki and stony silence to the sideboard.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I know the answer will come after doing some playtesting. But I just want to ask: Do you prefer 8 W colored mana sources or 10 W colored mana sources? And which do you think is a good starting place?
Thank you
UMerfolkU
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wxXtmjT0T1o3dcgqpJWkKNqcfkIobksJFA2rkK7Gf9o/edit?usp=sharing
Dropping Caverns, Kira and running Phantasmal Image may seem awesome but when you come across snap-bolt, snap-helix, snap-terminate decks you'll wonder why you ever cut Kira, caverns and played PI..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Master of Waves
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vapor Snag
4 Spreading Seas
4 Aether Vial
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Mutavault
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
9 Island
1 Dismember
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Negate
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spell Pierce
3 Tidebinder Mage
Open Play (to calibrate things)
Round 1 - Win?
G1: Opening Hand - Cavern, 2 Vial, MoPT, Cursecatcher, Silvergill, MoW
I was on the play and my first draw was another Silvergill, so I opened with double vial. My opponent opens with Utopia Sprawl on a forest, followed up by Courser of Kruphix and Eidolon of Blossoms. I dismembered the Courser, ghost quartered his Forest, and vialed in a MoPT and he conceded.
G2: - 4 Cursecatcher + 3 Tidebinder Mage + 1 Dismember
Opening Hand - Never happened. He timed out after 5 minutes. (Side note - I wish people would just end the match if they’re not going to come back).
Round 2 - Win versus Bant Blink?
G1: Opening Hand - Island, Minamo, Oboro, 2 Silvergill, Reejerey, Dismember
I’m on the play and really have no idea about this hand. My opponent opens with a Seaside Citadel into a Sandsteppe Citadel, so I’m not worried yet, but also not sure if I’m playing Knight Reliquary or some other Bant brew. I played an Adept into a Reejerey and then played 2 more Adepts, a Lord, a Cursecatcher, and a Dismember on turn 4 (thanks Reejerey) to which the opponent conceded.
G2: - 4 Master of Waves + 3 Tidebinder Mage + 1 Dismember
Opening Hand - Mulligan to 2 Island, Oboro, Spell Pierce, Cursecatcher, MoPT with another Spell Pierce I keep on top.
I’m on the draw and assume he has either no T2 action (taplands) or it’s a bird, so I start with Cursecatcher. I draw another Lord and he casts a Coiling Oracle. Draw and play Reejerey, then drop another Lord and win. He tried casting Momentary Blink but I pierced it and that was that.
Round 3 - Win 2-0 versus Jeskai Geist
G1: Opening Hand - Mulligan to Island, Oboro, Vial, Reejerey, Vapor Snag, Seas with a Lord on top.
I’m on the draw and they quickly play a Geist and get me down to 8 before I can spreading Seas all of their red sources and stabilize with a Reejerey, Lord, and Cursecatcher. I land a Master of Waves and they concede.
G2: - 1 Dismember + 1 Spell Pierce
Opening Hand - Island, Ghost Quarter, Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas, Silvergill, Lord, MoPT
I thought I should have brought in Relic for Image this game as well, but luckily I was able to image a Lord to swing for the kill. Otherwise this game just took too long and involved my opponent endlessly lightning bolting and helixing my creatures.
Modern League
Round 1 - Won 2-0 versus RG Tron.
G1: Mulliganed to an opening hand of 2 Island, Cursecatcher, Harbinger, Reejerey, Master of Waves with a Silvergill on top.
I was on the draw and my opponent opens with Urza’s Tower and Chromatic Star, which makes me feel bad because I mulliganed a hand with Spreading Seas but not enough creatures (1). C’est la vie. I land a Reejerey and a Lord and the opponent concedes on turn 5, probably unable to find the third Tron land.
G2: + 2 Negate + 1 Spell Pierce, - 1 Dismember - 2 Harbinger
I mulligan again, keeping Island, Aether Vial, 2 Vapor Snag, Reejerey, Lord of Atlantis with a Cursecatcher on top. I’m realizing I probably should have taken out the Snags, but oh well. I get a Cursecatcher, Lord, and Reejerey on the board before he casts a spellskite and rending volleys my Reejerey. Phantasmal Image comes down, copying the Lord, I snag his spellskite back and swing in, then repeat this process next turn for the win.
Round 2 - Won 2-1 versus Storm
G1: Opening Hand - 2 Island, Oboro, Silvergill, Harbinger, Master of Waves, and Spell Pierce
I’m on the draw and my opponent opens with Flooded Strand - Island - Sleight of Hand. T2 I pierce Pyromancer’s Ascension, then get a Silvergill on the board and worry about the lack of interaction in my hand (historically I’ve been unlucky against Storm). The opponent seems to be digging for something, so I seas the Sulfur Falls and play a Cursecatcher in defense. They get a Steam Vents out, cast another Pyromancer’s Ascension, and I basically sit back and F6.
G2: MTGO Quit on me so I didn’t get to sideboard. Opening hand - I mulliganed down to Island, Mutavault, Vial, Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas, Reejerey.
The opponent gets a defense grid down on turn 2 and a Pyromancer’s Ascension on T3, but I spreading seas the only red source they have and they concede next turn.
G3: + 2 Relic + 2 Negate + 1 Spell Pierce + 1 Dismember - 1 Phantasmal Image - 2 Vapor Snag - 2 Harbinger - 1 Master of Waves
Opening Hand - Island, Cavern, Cursecatcher, MoPT, Reejerey, Seas, Master of Waves
I was on the draw and they clearly learned from last time, fetching two red sources immediately and landing an Ascension. I negate the defense grid and cursecatcher a ritual. I’m starting to wonder if I should have brought in Chalice. The opponent goes digging for a lot of cards, then I draw my third land, cast a Reejerey, and swing for the kill. (Sidenote - I realized that I brought out the Vapor Snags thinking I would bring in Chalice, then didn’t bring in Chalice, so those probably would have been better than Dismember.)
Round 3 - Lost 0-2 to Ad Nauseum.
G1: Opening Hand - Island, Oboro, Vial, Image, Harbinger, MoPT, Reejerey
I’m playing LordCommanderSnow and his Ad Nauseum + Angel’s Grace deck. Needless to say, I almost kill him before he Lightning Storms me for 22.
G2: - 2 Vapor Snag - 1 Dismember + 2 Negate + 1 Spell Pierce
Opening Hand - Mutavault, Island, Vial, Harbinger, Seas, Reejerey with a Lord of Atlantis on top.
This was similar to G1. We had a great chat and I’m really excited to see this play out at the pro tour. It feels like watching Amulet play, just much less disruptable.
Round 4 - Won 2-0 versus Blue Moon?
G1: Opening Hand - Island, Cavern, Cursecatcher, MoPT, Harbinger, Image, MoW
I’m on the draw, my opponent lands a jace and two Sleight of Hands later has it flipped. I’m not quite sure what they are playing, but it involves Spreading Seas and Steam Vents, so I’m thinking Blue Moon. I got enough Lords out and they folded.
G2 + 2 Relic + 1 Spell Pierce + 1 Dismember - 4 Spreading Seas
Opening Hand - I mulligan to Minamo, Mutavault, Vial, Image, Silvergill, MoPT with a Spell Pierce on Top.
I get two lords on board, my opponent Cliques their own hand, can’t find what they need and concedes.
Round 5 - Win 2-1 versus Burn.
G1: Opening Hand - Oboro, Minamo, Cavern, Spell Pierce, MoPT, Vial, Spreading Seas
I’m on the play, keeping an interesting hand, and leading with a Vial. I’m playing burn, they play a Goblin Guide, and swing. I am able to cast Spreading Seas on two Sacred Foundries, and then get enough creatures on the board to Islandwalk through.
G2 + 3 Tidebinder Mage + 2 Negate - 4 Spreading Seas - 1 Dismember
Opening Hand - 2 Island, Ghost Quarter, Negate, 2 Master of Waves with a Vapor Snag on top.
I shouldn’t have kept this hand and I lose swiftly.
G3: No changes.
Opening Hand - Island, Oboro, Tidebinder, Silvergill, MoPT, 2 MoW
I open with Tidebinder, Reejerey, and chain a Silvergill and 2 Lords together at which point they concede.
Thoughts
This deck feels good so far - much faster and more resilient than prior builds I had (older builds were close to Nikachu’s list 3-6 months back). I haven’t had any real situations where the creatures I had weren’t the ones I wanted. Image offered a bit of flexibility and I didn’t miss Kira at all (I know many of you have been saying this). I think the higher threat density and Ghost Quarters for Wanderwine Hub is really powerful. I played a few matches that weren’t listed above because the opponent conceded or nothing terribly interesting happened. I slaughtered Tron a few times in single games (I don’t think they liked main deck Ghost Quarter) and had a durdling match with Lantern Control. I’m excited to move forward with this for a while, and really looking forward to testing it against more Tier 1 decks, since I played a range of weirder stuff.
A few questions:
1. What’s the right play against Storm?
2. I know to bring in Recall against Lantern Game 2 & 3 so that I can attack through their bridges, but what do we do game 1 - try not to play lords and just kill them with Cursecatcher? Play aggro and stop ensaring bridge?
My points:
-Few games against a Naya Zoo Friend
-Come on, too dependent of Spreading Seas...I had few creatues, he has a lot of Burning Tree, Ape, Experiment One and others....no Islandwalk enabled -_-
-When he had a slow start, wheres my Dismember ? Only 2 on deck, its veryyyy hard to see one
-When he had just a few lands...no spell pierce came. When he had 5-6 lands, guess what? 2 Spell Pierce on hand...come on...
Maybe I should try 8 seas list, since Islandwalk is a must in my opinion
Not 100% happy about the main deck 2 Spell Pierce / 2 Dismember or Vapor Snag
I believe this was his reasoning which he then explained in the comments.
The problem with running fetchs and shocks is that you give up quite a bit against Burn and Scapeshift to do so. Merfolk’s greatest advantage in both matchups is that you don’t give them any cards by Bolting yourself which usually buys you an extra turn to force through lethal. Your cantrips make finding a white source easy enough that I wouldn’t worry about adding more sources in.
Grixis and GBx are still going to be prevalent and I expect that most Twin players will turn their decks into some form of tempo or control so while the Level 0 tier one expectation is for non-interactive decks, I’d hedge against the Level 1 response and simply being wrong. And having a flier to block Inkmoth Nexus is no small thing.
Having playing Image in Legacy, I still don’t think it’s very good. It’s still terrible in an attrition fight and as a topdeck after a sweeper, which were always my main problems with it. I’d still leave it at home.
If I knew that the tournament would be 50% or more Eldrazi and Tron then I’d absolutely pack Sea’s Claim as a 3-4 of main. Otherwise just leave it. Attacking Burn’s lands rarely works out and is too tempo negative even for Spreading Seas so unless I’m knocking my opponent off significant amounts of mana it isn’t worth it.
I would start with 10 sources of W, personally. 2 Hallowed Fountain, 4 Seachrome Coast, and 4 Wanderwine Hub.
This is easy to answer: because it hasn't done anything. The cards that theoretically would make it good have been here for a while. So have the decks that they're supposed to be good against (Affinity is a pillar of the format, for crying out loud). It has had ample opportunity (and some very vocal supporters), and has done nothing. And "nothing" doesn't mean "is the little brother, but still has regular showings" - you can count its showings with one hand and have fingers to spare. It has years of do-nothing to overcome, and as such it's going to have to make some major showings before I even consider recommending it.
I've also moved on from the Choke protection - that was a marginal card even before the Twin ban, and it will be even more so afterward. We have more to fear from Blood Moon and Fulminator Mage now, and I think that will be the case going forward.
You have a point, and it's a point I've made earlier - we shouldn't alter the shell too drastically until we know how things shake out in the metagame at large. It might not end up being all that different.
The reason why older printings of Lord of Atlantis have "All Merfolk" instead of "Other Merfolk" is because they were not Merfolk themselves. If you look at the creature type, it's Lord. However, all copies (regardless of the text written on the physical card) of Lord of Atlantis use the Oracle text rules as specified by Wizards of the Coast. Try the Gatherer search engine online if you're unsure of how any given card plays.
That's surprising, given that I usually don't have a lot of trouble with Zoo. Are you packing Dispel in your sideboard for their spells and Tidebinder Mage for their creatures? Also, how many Master of Waves are you running?
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
That's surprising, given that I usually don't have a lot of trouble with Zoo. Are you packing Dispel in your sideboard for their spells and Tidebinder Mage for their creatures? Also, how many Master of Waves are you running?[/quote]
Well, I`m not feeling worst because was friendly matchs...without sideaboard at all...just maindeck, but was enough to see that Game 1 is INSANE...Naya Zoo is faster and furious than us game 1. Next time I will give a try with sideboard and give you a new reply Rothgar =) And im using 4 MoW
So should I just play it like it says "Other Merfolk get +1/+1"??? Jw
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
On the 7th edition, Lord of Atlantis' creature type is not Merfolk, it's a Lord. So by that technicality, even if his effect grants all Merfolk +1/+1, he himself is not a Merfolk and is unable to gain the effect.
I came to this same conclusion. Vial is actually super useful. It's sometimes a dead card, but it's just too important to not have in the deck. It enables so many different kinds of plays that the benefits outweigh the negative.
On the 7th edition, Lord of Atlantis' creature type is not Merfolk, it's a Lord. So by that technicality, even if his effect grants all Merfolk +1/+1, he himself is not a Merfolk and is unable to gain the effect.
This has been very helpful. Thank you
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
How does Grafdigger's Cage shut off a Kiki-Chord combo?
U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW
There is currently no paper copy of Lord of Atlantis with the exact Oracle text on it.
You'll also notice that your 7th edition Lord of Atlantis doesn't have the creature type Merfolk on it
The Timespiral version is the closest to true oracle text (just remove the type Lord)
Lord of Atlantis
U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW