We're probably slightly favored IMO. Our removal line up well against their threat and their tax effects are not as effective against us comparative to other decks.
We probably lose when they get to gum up the ground and attack with multiple flickerwisps but I find that this doesn't happen too often if we're careful with how we time our removal spells.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Domri, Grim Lavamancer, any planeswalker, multiple big creatures... all of these are how you beat them. If you have a lot in your meta and you really want to smash them, play some Sulfur Elementals in your board.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I'm totally taking that list (with some minor tweaks) to my LGS tomorrow night GoST. Will be the first time I take a non bant company/knightfall list anywhere in a while!
Question for the group- Has anyone tested with Atarka's Command? Seems like that card could be bonkers.
I'm totally taking that list (with some minor tweaks) to my LGS tomorrow night GoST. Will be the first time I take a non bant company/knightfall list anywhere in a while!
Question for the group- Has anyone tested with Atarka's Command? Seems like that card could be bonkers.
Played the Challenge winning list last night at a four round Modern event. Unfortunately got paired against BW Smallpox twice. I played against my R1 opponent to a quick 2-0 before the event started, and in the actual match went 0-2. Being on the draw is a huge liability. Round 2 I played against Smallpox again. I won G1, then in G2 I had my opponent at 2 life. Damnation->Liliana->Gideon->Sorin were my opponents' draws. Bad beats. G3 I was doing well but ended up flooding and hitting a bad company and lost. R3 I played against a mono red moon deck. Ran him over in G1 and G2 was surprised by Hazoret after boarding out paths. Managed to win with a combination of Chandra + huge Knights and Goyfs. R4 was against WB Eldrazi. G1 I just ran over my opponent with a double Nacatl draw. We both flooded hard but I had the board presence and thus won. G2 we both flooded hard again, but I hit a Moon which prevent him from casting the majority of his spells. Ended up winning with a 5/5 Knight.
I typically don't like playing Company in Naya and last night was a good reminder why. A combination of just less impactful companies and wanting to run more non-creature spells compared to the Bant decks make our Companies way worse. When the floor and ceiling are lower than in Knightfall or Humans and we have so many other good cards we could play instead, I think it's worth passing on the card.
I typically don't like playing Company in Naya and last night was a good reminder why. A combination of just less impactful companies and wanting to run more non-creature spells compared to the Bant decks make our Companies way worse. When the floor and ceiling are lower than in Knightfall or Humans and we have so many other good cards we could play instead, I think it's worth passing on the card.
Yeah, we're gonna have to disagree. I love putting in 2 8/8 Knights into play for 4 mana at instant speed, but that's just me I guess. The card is absolutely bonkers. But if you're playing lists like Rallier.dec I can see why you would think that.
I want to curve out as fast as possible and take over the opponent before they can manage the board state. I'm not going the Big Zoo way, Bushwacker appealed to me a lot.
I typically don't like playing Company in Naya and last night was a good reminder why. A combination of just less impactful companies and wanting to run more non-creature spells compared to the Bant decks make our Companies way worse. When the floor and ceiling are lower than in Knightfall or Humans and we have so many other good cards we could play instead, I think it's worth passing on the card.
Yeah, we're gonna have to disagree. I love putting in 2 8/8 Knights into play for 4 mana at instant speed, but that's just me I guess. The card is absolutely bonkers. But if you're playing lists like Rallier.dec I can see why you would think that.
Nah man I love CoCo in the rallier build too. I think Rallier gets more mileage out of CoCo than non-rallier builds.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I've got a month to prepare for my next PPTQ (long list of reasons why that's the next one I can go to).
I haven't played CoCo Zoo for real for a while now, but it's still probably the deck I enjoy playing the most and the deck I've piloted the most.
I've played with Rallier and it's fun so I'll probably go with that build.
Based on my understanding we seem decent against fair decks (even decks with a lot of disruption like GDS) but not favored against combo decks. Is that a good summation? I need to know where to practice so trying to get an idea.
Pre-board games vs combo are always a crapshoot with any midrangey zoo build.
Post-board I think we are fine. We have Thalia 1.0 out the board that usually slows almost all combo decks down a decent bit. If we can get both thalia's on the table then it really slows combo down.
Against graveyard based combo like living end, we have Tomod's crypt out the board that can be rallied back after you crack it.
Against combo that require artifacts to produce mana, seal of primordium, stony silence out the board that can also be rallied back.
The tricky part is identifying mulligans and timing your hate stuff properly.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
2-0 vs BW Eldrazi and Taxes. This one was pretty easy honestly.
2-1 vs Jeskai Flash. This was grindy, I lost game one in a grind, but then game 2 beat him quick and in game 3 two knights sealed his doom.
2-1 vs strange Mardu soul sisters/norin/genesis chamber/human tribal combo deck. This was a crazy match.
and lost 0-2 vs grixis shadow. I had to mulligan too much, and had the ole turn one and 2 TS/IQ games. Matchup felt worse than it probably is on a normal basis.
I'd love any feedback on my list. I feel like I still am figuring out my sideboard plan for sure, and the exact creature package main but for now it feels great. Here are some things I wonder about:
1) Seems like we get wrecked by scapeshift and other combo decks, what sideboard cards do you guys like the best? Should I run more stony/Mindcensor?
2) I cut pridemage and didn't miss it. Wrong?
3) anybody play any birds?
4) How many/which planes walkers do you guys think are best or do you guys think none is the right number (like I have now)?
5) Any other sweet cards with revolt triggers for rallier I'm missing?
6) Courser of Lruphix isn't maybe aggro enough, but does anybody play it? It seems like it could help with what this deck lacks- card selection and life gain, plus being a good blocker at least. Courser and knight is really good, as i know from knightfall.
1) Seems like we get wrecked by scapeshift and other combo decks, what sideboard cards do you guys like the best? Should I run more stony/Mindcensor?
When you play the rallier version you're going to be less powerful than smiter lists. I always board in Moon, Thalia, Teeg, and Dromoka's Command in against them to protect the hate bears. Also Voice of Resurgence is amazing against them.
2) I cut pridemage and didn't miss it. Wrong?
I cut them too and haven't missed them either.
3) anybody play any birds?
I play 1 every now and then when I play 12+ 3 drops, but I found myself always cutting them first so I just stopped running them.
4) How many/which planes walkers do you guys think are best or do you guys think none is the right number (like I have now)?
I play 1 Domri main and have elspeth in the board every now and then.
5) Any other sweet cards with revolt triggers for rallier I'm missing?
Is there anything good that draws you cards? I have seen some lists use explosives over ratchet so there's that.
6) Courser of Kruphix isn't maybe aggro enough, but does anybody play it? It seems like it could help with what this deck lacks- card selection and life gain, plus being a good blocker at least. Courser and knight is really good, as i know from knightfall.
I think the more you add these cards the more Bant Knightfall or GW Value Town territory you get closer to.
What's Glorybringer for? I assume you're betting on the Exert hitting something, but what?
Eldrazi, coco decks, abzan, jund, humans, d&t, merfolk, all have things I don't hate shooting for 5 mana.
The dragon is a card that does things when you're both ahead and behind on board. Something that SBD can't claim and Thundermaw can only claim when there are a bunch of flyers in play.
It's not heavily tested but it's a powerful 5 drop for post-board games where people are trying to get attrition-ey.
We probably lose when they get to gum up the ground and attack with multiple flickerwisps but I find that this doesn't happen too often if we're careful with how we time our removal spells.
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List is below:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Loxodon Smiter
1 Tireless Tracker
//spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Domri Rade
3 Collected Company
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Stony Silence
1 Ancient Grudge
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4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Renegade Rallier
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Voice of Resurgence
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Collected Company
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Arid Mesa
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
60 Card
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Blood Moon
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tormod's Crypt
Question for the group- Has anyone tested with Atarka's Command? Seems like that card could be bonkers.
In Big Zoo?
That card doesn't do anything.
In Little Zoo/Go-Wide-Zoo?
That card does quite a bit.
I typically don't like playing Company in Naya and last night was a good reminder why. A combination of just less impactful companies and wanting to run more non-creature spells compared to the Bant decks make our Companies way worse. When the floor and ceiling are lower than in Knightfall or Humans and we have so many other good cards we could play instead, I think it's worth passing on the card.
Yeah, we're gonna have to disagree. I love putting in 2 8/8 Knights into play for 4 mana at instant speed, but that's just me I guess. The card is absolutely bonkers. But if you're playing lists like Rallier.dec I can see why you would think that.
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4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
2 Kird Ape
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Flinthoof Boar
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
Spells (9)
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Mutagenic Growth
4 Atarka's Command
4 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Path to Exile
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Lightning Helix
2 Domri Rade
I want to curve out as fast as possible and take over the opponent before they can manage the board state. I'm not going the Big Zoo way, Bushwacker appealed to me a lot.
Looking forward to contribute to the thread!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Nah man I love CoCo in the rallier build too. I think Rallier gets more mileage out of CoCo than non-rallier builds.
I haven't played CoCo Zoo for real for a while now, but it's still probably the deck I enjoy playing the most and the deck I've piloted the most.
I've played with Rallier and it's fun so I'll probably go with that build.
Based on my understanding we seem decent against fair decks (even decks with a lot of disruption like GDS) but not favored against combo decks. Is that a good summation? I need to know where to practice so trying to get an idea.
Post-board I think we are fine. We have Thalia 1.0 out the board that usually slows almost all combo decks down a decent bit. If we can get both thalia's on the table then it really slows combo down.
Against graveyard based combo like living end, we have Tomod's crypt out the board that can be rallied back after you crack it.
Against combo that require artifacts to produce mana, seal of primordium, stony silence out the board that can also be rallied back.
The tricky part is identifying mulligans and timing your hate stuff properly.
2-0 vs BW Eldrazi and Taxes. This one was pretty easy honestly.
2-1 vs Jeskai Flash. This was grindy, I lost game one in a grind, but then game 2 beat him quick and in game 3 two knights sealed his doom.
2-1 vs strange Mardu soul sisters/norin/genesis chamber/human tribal combo deck. This was a crazy match.
and lost 0-2 vs grixis shadow. I had to mulligan too much, and had the ole turn one and 2 TS/IQ games. Matchup felt worse than it probably is on a normal basis.
I'd love any feedback on my list. I feel like I still am figuring out my sideboard plan for sure, and the exact creature package main but for now it feels great. Here are some things I wonder about:
1) Seems like we get wrecked by scapeshift and other combo decks, what sideboard cards do you guys like the best? Should I run more stony/Mindcensor?
2) I cut pridemage and didn't miss it. Wrong?
3) anybody play any birds?
4) How many/which planes walkers do you guys think are best or do you guys think none is the right number (like I have now)?
5) Any other sweet cards with revolt triggers for rallier I'm missing?
6) Courser of Lruphix isn't maybe aggro enough, but does anybody play it? It seems like it could help with what this deck lacks- card selection and life gain, plus being a good blocker at least. Courser and knight is really good, as i know from knightfall.
Thanks!
When you play the rallier version you're going to be less powerful than smiter lists. I always board in Moon, Thalia, Teeg, and Dromoka's Command in against them to protect the hate bears. Also Voice of Resurgence is amazing against them.
I cut them too and haven't missed them either.
I play 1 every now and then when I play 12+ 3 drops, but I found myself always cutting them first so I just stopped running them.
I play 1 Domri main and have elspeth in the board every now and then.
Is there anything good that draws you cards? I have seen some lists use explosives over ratchet so there's that.
I think the more you add these cards the more Bant Knightfall or GW Value Town territory you get closer to.
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4x Wild Nacatl
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Renegade Rallier
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Seal of Fire
4x Path to Exile
3x Collected Company
1x Crater's Claws
4x Windswept Heath
3x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Fiery Justice
1x Seal of Primordium
1x Declaration in Stone
3x Blood Moon
1x Glorybringer
1x Tireless Tracker
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Stony Silence
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ratchet Bomb
Playing this tonight.
Eldrazi, coco decks, abzan, jund, humans, d&t, merfolk, all have things I don't hate shooting for 5 mana.
The dragon is a card that does things when you're both ahead and behind on board. Something that SBD can't claim and Thundermaw can only claim when there are a bunch of flyers in play.
It's not heavily tested but it's a powerful 5 drop for post-board games where people are trying to get attrition-ey.
Here's a spicy take that I'm thinking of for tomorrow night:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Thunderbreak Regent
//removal
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
2 Searing Blaze
1 Domri Rade
1 Ajani Vengeant
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
3 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Blood Moon
1 Stony Silence
1 Ancient Grudge
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