It just seems like they're just extra nacatls most of the time. And nacatls are already one of our lowest impact cards. Even in the scenario you described, it's basically just cascading into a nacatl, which is borderline acceptable to downright bad depending on the stage of the game.
I guess against decks that aren't seeking to interact with you, they might get to fulfil their potential.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
And nacatls are already one of our lowest impact cards.
There's a lot to unpack here but I think this is too general of a statement.
Wild Nacatl is one of the reasons to play a naya deck over anything else. A turn one Wild Nacatl is powerful much like a turn 7 Wild Nacatl is kind of a bummer. Those situations lead to vastly different games.
Pelt Collector has an interesting turn 2-4 crescendo if you play it on turn 1. It works well with Nacatl and incentivizes you to play a lower to the ground zoo deck -- since it doesn't play that well turns 4-7. At the same time it demands that you play large idiots that cost 2-3 mana since there are only so many playable 1-2 drops that have large power.
Here's where I'd start with a Pelt Collector Zoo list:
And nacatls are already one of our lowest impact cards.
There's a lot to unpack here but I think this is too general of a statement.
Wild Nacatl is one of the reasons to play a naya deck over anything else. A turn one Wild Nacatl is powerful much like a turn 7 Wild Nacatl is kind of a bummer. Those situations lead to vastly different games.
Pelt Collector has an interesting turn 2-4 crescendo if you play it on turn 1. It works well with Nacatl and incentivizes you to play a lower to the ground zoo deck -- since it doesn't play that well turns 4-7. At the same time it demands that you play large idiots that cost 2-3 mana since there are only so many playable 1-2 drops that have large power.
Here's where I'd start with a Pelt Collector Zoo list:
I've been seeing this in many Zoo decks, what is the importance of Dromoka's Command?
It does lots of small things, but I can't understand how it has enough impact to be worth a mainboard slot.
Surely if your looking for speed a card like Atarka's Command is better no?
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Decks - Modern Currently active - Humans - Evolve Zoo
In a Pelt Collector deck, it puts extra counters on Pelt Collector -- which if you're granting trample mid-combat can be a nightmare for blocking decks.
Pelt Collector is likely the real deal. Id also note that Knight of Autumn is likely the nuts too. It dies to bolt, very true, but the compacting of side slots, being BBelfed, and at worst, having beef, is a very... VERY good call.
Its been a while since Ive played magic, but I'd start trying to look at zoo with those cards in the mix. The truth is, while you might want to say "Pelt is just another nacatl." Thats really not a bad thing. Nacatls are good... so is pelt. Nacatl with trample is good. Nacatl with regenerate is good. I see no reason why you wouldnt want more 1 mana 3/3s.
They need to grow, sure... But as a long time zoo player, Ive said every time people have asked "Why is zoo not as good anymore?" the answer is simple... Everything else is better. WHy would you run 2/3s in a world of 1 mana 5/5s? The more zoo can adopt this "I hit hard early, I grow bigger in the late game" with creatures like Kytheon or Experiment one, the better. I just happened that most of the creatures they print like this (See: Sunblade elf suck.
This one doesnt. Its text pretty much reads it will be a 3/3. There was very little trouble of that with just ETB effects with E1, there will be less with that and dies triggers.
I think the correct thing to focus on zoo, at least small zoo, is not to be a red deck, but be a green stompy deck. Dont use pump effects, use burn and white sideboard.
The creator of human's deck Just made this deck with pelt collector and vexing devil combo, and what to day, It works great! Turn 1 pelt, turn 2 goblin guide + vexing devil could give u a turn 2 4/4 trample Attack for 6, 10 DMG total
I'm fully ready to embrace the fact that I might be completely wrong.
Then again I've never liked the balls-to-the-wall aggro builds due to their high fail rate. Pelt Collector might be the introduction that changes that. I still don't think he's what I would want in the midrangey builds I favour.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I'd really rather play a mid-range build using Knights / Ralliers / Bloodbraid,
however as that recent MTGO modern challenge shows we might be looking at maxing a low-curve beat down.
I'm gonna invest in the cards for both and see how they play out, as long as I get to play some foil Vexing Devils I'll be happy
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Decks - Modern Currently active - Humans - Evolve Zoo
The creator of human's deck Just made this deck with pelt collector and vexing devil combo, and what to day, It works great! Turn 1 pelt, turn 2 goblin guide + vexing devil could give u a turn 2 4/4 trample Attack for 6, 10 DMG total
I've seen the decktech and the matchups. Like i said before, the interaction with cards like Vexing Devil is just stupid. Groundbreaker and its red origin brother fit the same bill.
What to think of evoke creatures. It's nuts
I can't wait to get my copies. The only problem is, i need foils
How does this look for a pelt collector Nayaggro deck? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1371209#paper . It's fine if you guys don't think it would work, just wanted to see if I could get some opinions before I take it into a league to test.
(I don't know how to use the "deck" function just yet).
This is a zoo brew with pelt collector i have been working on. Its a pretty rough list and im not sold on some cards but it does seem worth exploring. pelt collector has been very good. It becomes a 3/3 very consistently and occasionally a 4/4. Renegade rallier, vexing devil and pelt collector is a package of cards that lets you grind, gives instant board presence and gives you reach. The issue im at now is whether 1 mana 3/3's in a non all in aggro shell are where you want to be in modern as they tend to get outclassed quickly. To mitigate this i have been playing bigger creatures like goyf and kotr. The sideboard is a mess and some of the numbers in the main need toyed with il give an update if i feel the decks has legs
So is no one playing Knight of Autumn? It seemed pretty much everything you could want to me
I think we all got a little gunshy of BBE lists after getting torched by Terminus decks. BBE lists are a little slow off the ground and give UW just the right amount of time.
Now that the format is in flux I'll probably return to BBE -- she's great at closing the door against midrange decks and combo decks. BBE lists seem like the place where Knight of Autumn would be most at home. Plus maybe I'll stop losing to Affinity all the time (note: this is a "me" problem and not a zoo problem).
Edit: But I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been able to play any magic. Stupid work.
This is a zoo brew with pelt collector i have been working on. Its a pretty rough list and im not sold on some cards but it does seem worth exploring. pelt collector has been very good. It becomes a 3/3 very consistently and occasionally a 4/4. Renegade rallier, vexing devil and pelt collector is a package of cards that lets you grind, gives instant board presence and gives you reach. The issue im at now is whether 1 mana 3/3's in a non all in aggro shell are where you want to be in modern as they tend to get outclassed quickly. To mitigate this i have been playing bigger creatures like goyf and kotr. The sideboard is a mess and some of the numbers in the main need toyed with il give an update if i feel the decks has legs
I saw a list on youtube and it seemed to be trying to push to be faster right now. I am not sure if it will pay off but it looked a good bit different from yours given that his focused a LOT more on 1 drops. I just thought I would provide the video to compare the difference in speed of the lists but I don't necessarily think that you can't extend a little more midrange with the concept but I thought I would link it for a different thought or direction to consider.
The second one goes to four colors splashing black for Death's Shadow. I don't know if thats the direction to go or not but I figured I would supply it as well given it was the newer video from the same source.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
So is no one playing Knight of Autumn? It seemed pretty much everything you could want to me
I think we all got a little gunshy of BBE lists after getting torched by Terminus decks. BBE lists are a little slow off the ground and give UW just the right amount of time.
Now that the format is in flux I'll probably return to BBE -- she's great at closing the door against midrange decks and combo decks. BBE lists seem like the place where Knight of Autumn would be most at home. Plus maybe I'll stop losing to Affinity all the time (note: this is a "me" problem and not a zoo problem).
Edit: But I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been able to play any magic. Stupid work.
Speaking of which, do you think you could link me a good example of a BBE zoo list for the current meta? Obviously it won't be perfect as I don't think anyone's made one of those publicly yet, but I think that's what I'm looking for personally, primarily for my LGS' games. In part because I want to see if, as a budget option if nothing else, an arbor/utopia build could work out for me instead of the normal mana dorks (Because being able to cut hierarchs from the list would result in over a third of a cost cut).
EDIT: That is, assuming they use hierarch. I assumed they did because BBE is 4 cmc, but looking at what I could find some brews do and some don't. Even if it's fine not to use mana dorks though, I'd still like a more current and defined example then what I can find through google
EDIT: That is, assuming they use hierarch. I assumed they did because BBE is 4 cmc, but looking at what I could find some brews do and some don't. Even if it's fine not to use mana dorks though, I'd still like a more current and defined example then what I can find through google
I would not recommend playing big zoo without Hierach.
If I wanted to play Utopia Sprawl, I'd look to other sprawl decks -- which occasionally splash white for sideboard cards or Path to Exile.
EDIT: That is, assuming they use hierarch. I assumed they did because BBE is 4 cmc, but looking at what I could find some brews do and some don't. Even if it's fine not to use mana dorks though, I'd still like a more current and defined example then what I can find through google
I would not recommend playing big zoo without Hierach.
If I wanted to play Utopia Sprawl, I'd look to other sprawl decks -- which occasionally splash white for sideboard cards or Path to Exile.
Is it possible to play it without tarmogoyf instead? I assumed it would be easier to replace Heirarch, but if I can't replace either then it's likely I'll never have the budget to play zoo in general. (I wasn't talking about sprawl because I wanted to play it- I was talking about it because I believed it to be the best replacement for heirarch).
So i played through a couple leagues with the deck I posted earlier and it felt very underwhelming on a fundamental level. It just feels like 1 mana 3/3's are just too far below rate in modern now. I mean we are jumping through some hoops to make our 1 mana 3/3's online when other decks put the same effort or less into getting 0 mana 4/4's or 1 mana 5/5's. I have seen the bushwhacker zoo decks with pelt collector and too me they are a worse all in aggro deck compared to hollow one or bridge vine and less consistent than burn. Im gonna tweak and run it through some more games but I feel that barring getting a bunch of upgrades like UW control did recently, Zoo will continue to not be competitively viable we are just too fair
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I guess against decks that aren't seeking to interact with you, they might get to fulfil their potential.
There's a lot to unpack here but I think this is too general of a statement.
Wild Nacatl is one of the reasons to play a naya deck over anything else. A turn one Wild Nacatl is powerful much like a turn 7 Wild Nacatl is kind of a bummer. Those situations lead to vastly different games.
Pelt Collector has an interesting turn 2-4 crescendo if you play it on turn 1. It works well with Nacatl and incentivizes you to play a lower to the ground zoo deck -- since it doesn't play that well turns 4-7. At the same time it demands that you play large idiots that cost 2-3 mana since there are only so many playable 1-2 drops that have large power.
Here's where I'd start with a Pelt Collector Zoo list:
4x Pelt Collector
4x Goblin Guide
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Path to Exile
2x Dromoka's Command
2x Lightning Helix
We probably want to float around 12 1 drops to ensure that you're getting your beats on.
Additionally, to ensure that you're triggering Collector, you probably want to float around 25-28 creatures.
There's a lot to unpack here but I think this is too general of a statement.
Wild Nacatl is one of the reasons to play a naya deck over anything else. A turn one Wild Nacatl is powerful much like a turn 7 Wild Nacatl is kind of a bummer. Those situations lead to vastly different games.
Pelt Collector has an interesting turn 2-4 crescendo if you play it on turn 1. It works well with Nacatl and incentivizes you to play a lower to the ground zoo deck -- since it doesn't play that well turns 4-7. At the same time it demands that you play large idiots that cost 2-3 mana since there are only so many playable 1-2 drops that have large power.
Here's where I'd start with a Pelt Collector Zoo list:
4x Pelt Collector
4x Goblin Guide
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Path to Exile
2x Dromoka's Command
2x Lightning Helix
We probably want to float around 12 1 drops to ensure that you're getting your beats on.
Additionally, to ensure that you're triggering Collector, you probably want to float around 25-28 creatures.
It does lots of small things, but I can't understand how it has enough impact to be worth a mainboard slot.
Surely if your looking for speed a card like Atarka's Command is better no?
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It's not the most powerful Zoo card but it's the most flexible.
Good against bolts, great in combat and vs. Humans in general, and good vs. a laundry list of enchantments that people maindeck (Utopia Sprawl, Worship, Courser of Kruphix, Bogles, Detention Sphere, Search for Azcanta, etc.).
In a Pelt Collector deck, it puts extra counters on Pelt Collector -- which if you're granting trample mid-combat can be a nightmare for blocking decks.
Its been a while since Ive played magic, but I'd start trying to look at zoo with those cards in the mix. The truth is, while you might want to say "Pelt is just another nacatl." Thats really not a bad thing. Nacatls are good... so is pelt. Nacatl with trample is good. Nacatl with regenerate is good. I see no reason why you wouldnt want more 1 mana 3/3s.
They need to grow, sure... But as a long time zoo player, Ive said every time people have asked "Why is zoo not as good anymore?" the answer is simple... Everything else is better. WHy would you run 2/3s in a world of 1 mana 5/5s? The more zoo can adopt this "I hit hard early, I grow bigger in the late game" with creatures like Kytheon or Experiment one, the better. I just happened that most of the creatures they print like this (See: Sunblade elf suck.
This one doesnt. Its text pretty much reads it will be a 3/3. There was very little trouble of that with just ETB effects with E1, there will be less with that and dies triggers.
I think the correct thing to focus on zoo, at least small zoo, is not to be a red deck, but be a green stompy deck. Dont use pump effects, use burn and white sideboard.
Then again I've never liked the balls-to-the-wall aggro builds due to their high fail rate. Pelt Collector might be the introduction that changes that. I still don't think he's what I would want in the midrangey builds I favour.
however as that recent MTGO modern challenge shows we might be looking at maxing a low-curve beat down.
I'm gonna invest in the cards for both and see how they play out, as long as I get to play some foil Vexing Devils I'll be happy
Currently active
I've seen the decktech and the matchups. Like i said before, the interaction with cards like Vexing Devil is just stupid. Groundbreaker and its red origin brother fit the same bill.
What to think of evoke creatures. It's nuts
I can't wait to get my copies. The only problem is, i need foils
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW
(I don't know how to use the "deck" function just yet).
Don't play Grizzly Bears.
Copperline Gorge is a hard sell with wild nacatl.
I think we all got a little gunshy of BBE lists after getting torched by Terminus decks. BBE lists are a little slow off the ground and give UW just the right amount of time.
Now that the format is in flux I'll probably return to BBE -- she's great at closing the door against midrange decks and combo decks. BBE lists seem like the place where Knight of Autumn would be most at home. Plus maybe I'll stop losing to Affinity all the time (note: this is a "me" problem and not a zoo problem).
Edit: But I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been able to play any magic. Stupid work.
I saw a list on youtube and it seemed to be trying to push to be faster right now. I am not sure if it will pay off but it looked a good bit different from yours given that his focused a LOT more on 1 drops. I just thought I would provide the video to compare the difference in speed of the lists but I don't necessarily think that you can't extend a little more midrange with the concept but I thought I would link it for a different thought or direction to consider.
The second one goes to four colors splashing black for Death's Shadow. I don't know if thats the direction to go or not but I figured I would supply it as well given it was the newer video from the same source.
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[Modern] Allies
EDIT: That is, assuming they use hierarch. I assumed they did because BBE is 4 cmc, but looking at what I could find some brews do and some don't. Even if it's fine not to use mana dorks though, I'd still like a more current and defined example then what I can find through google
I would not recommend playing big zoo without Hierach.
If I wanted to play Utopia Sprawl, I'd look to other sprawl decks -- which occasionally splash white for sideboard cards or Path to Exile.